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Re: M_Boats: Test results - Honda 2.3 and M17
by ejenkins1953＠gmail.com 23 May '20

23 May '20

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(no subject)
by ken webb 23 May '20

23 May '20

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

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Trailer brakes
by Jon Barber 23 May '20

23 May '20

My thanks to everyone who chimed in on this subject. I have come to a deal with my local trailer guy to wit; New 3500 # axle Dacromet coated disc rotors Stainless steel calipers New bearings and bearing seals New springs New brake accuator with reverse lockout All for around $1000.00 This setup was about &400.00 more than the drum system he originally recommended but with fewer moving parts I feel more confident about the serviceability of the disc system. The last thing I want to deal with after a physically daunting sail and retrieval is mechanical problems, stuck brakes. The disc brake option also allows for excellent access to the mechanicals. I think Salt Away in a sprayer should suffice to clean things after launch retrieval. I realize trailer brakes do not give carte blanche to blaze down mountain grades. The same slow cautious approach to highway safety still applies. In California, certain rules apply to towed vehicles and I think the Toyota owners manual also emphasises towing weight limits with and without brakes. Woe to those who, while towing, rearends another motorist. With insufficient equipment, you are in jeopardy not only from the authorities, but also from your insurance company. Just my opinion! Jon Barber Monty17 Ol'44

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Trailer brakes
by David Grah 22 May '20

22 May '20

We mostly sail lakes in the high Sierra and also have interest in the downhill parts of the trip. We tow our Montgomery 15 with a Toyota Tacoma and before that a 4 cylinder Toyota pickup. Those vehicles always towed the boat fine but long downhills always have had my attention because I never feel like there was a whole lot of extra braking capacity with those tow vehicles. I am always surprised when I hear of people towing with passenger cars and having no problem with braking. I'm not pursuing trailer brakes but I try to go slow enough that the manual transmission will hold us back on most grades. David GrahBishop California Message: 17 Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 21:05:43 -0700 From: Jon Barber <brbrbarber(a)gmail.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Trailer brakes Message-ID: <CAFwAWQtjq2mEjbvh5t5ncpPrxfyMofvxJJP+X_k=ujq1nyYtHg(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I am trying to figure out what brakes are right for my Pacific galvanized trailer. I experienced some scary downhill moments returning to the valley from a high Sierra lake. I thought someone was burning up their brakes, it turned out to be me! After a cooling off period we continued in low gear and kept the speed low. I'd like to return to the mountain lakes with confidence while on the road. Can anyone offer any enlightenment in this subject? I'm dealing with a guy who means well but doesn't know boat trailers. I wanted disc brakes because of fewer moving parts and the fact that the entire brake is accessable for washing after launch and retrieval.He sold me a drum brake surge system but when I started to install I realized the cast iron rotors would not fare well in salt water. Now we're trying to source galvanized drum/hubs. To install a disc system requires replacing the axle as well. I'm not that worried about the cost, within reason and will likely install new springs, too. Any help would be appreciated. I tow with a late model 6 cylinder Tacoma. Thanks, Jon Barber Monty17 Ol'44

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Trailer brakes
by Jon Barber 22 May '20

22 May '20

I am trying to figure out what brakes are right for my Pacific galvanized trailer. I experienced some scary downhill moments returning to the valley from a high Sierra lake. I thought someone was burning up their brakes, it turned out to be me! After a cooling off period we continued in low gear and kept the speed low. I'd like to return to the mountain lakes with confidence while on the road. Can anyone offer any enlightenment in this subject? I'm dealing with a guy who means well but doesn't know boat trailers. I wanted disc brakes because of fewer moving parts and the fact that the entire brake is accessable for washing after launch and retrieval.He sold me a drum brake surge system but when I started to install I realized the cast iron rotors would not fare well in salt water. Now we're trying to source galvanized drum/hubs. To install a disc system requires replacing the axle as well. I'm not that worried about the cost, within reason and will likely install new springs, too. Any help would be appreciated. I tow with a late model 6 cylinder Tacoma. Thanks, Jon Barber Monty17 Ol'44

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by dclewis1＠aol.com 22 May '20

22 May '20

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by Guillaume ducrot 22 May '20

22 May '20

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Test results - Honda 2.3 and M17
by David Grah 21 May '20

21 May '20

Another bit of data concerning motoring that I was reminded of this morning was when trying to motor our Montgomery 15 into strong winds on Lake Powell. The winds were forecast to gust to 45 miles per hour and, based on the amount of spray, the forecast may have been right. There wasn't a lot of fetch to get waves big so the main concern was the wind. Our Honda 2 horsepower wide open or close to that setting was able to push the boat slowly forward in these conditions but the main issue we faced was steering. If the bow fell off the wind, the rudder did not have enough authority to turn it back into the wind and, when we steered with the motor in addition, our progress forward slowed significantly because the thrust was diverted from forward progress to turning the boat. So instead of motoring into the wind we went downwind to a sheltered spot and stayed there overnight. I realized later the centerboard was up at the time and I have wondered if having it down would make a difference as far as ability to steer and therefore our ability to motor into a strong wind. Anyway, although we are sticking with our 2 horsepower motor for our Montgomery 15, there is something to be said for a little extra horsepower. David GrahBishop California Message: 3 Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 12:33:02 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Test results - Honda 2.3 and M17 Message-ID: <265d552f-eb30-27f0-11ea-ee3c61bf235a(a)eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Last year I did some practical real-world tests of my Honda 2.3 hp long shaft on my 1974 M17. This was at Fern Ridge reservoir near Eugene, OR, where conditions ranged from completely glassy to whitecaps and gusts 20+. My conclusion was that as an auxiliary, the 2.3 is enough motor for an M17. Including with a furling jib (which I have) - a bit more windage forward than hank-on. In light air to glassy conditions, my results were: At the minimum throttle to fully engage the clutch, I was cruising at ~3 knots. At about 1/3 throttle - roughly where the 'start' position (little rabbit symbol) is on the throttle - I was cruising at ~4 knots. Next morning in completely glassy conditions I repeated the tests - same results as above. Then I went up to half throttle, which got me up to 4.7-4.8 knots. NOTE we are getting up to 3/4 or maybe 4/5 of hull speed here... More throttle had, as expected when getting close to hull speed, rapidly diminishing returns, adding at most .2 knots as I put it up to ~3/4 throttle. The motor being new and not even close to broken in per Honda's recommendations, I didn't want to run it any higher at that point. Third day was quite windy all day until late afternoon. 15-20+ with gusts probably to 25. I motored out and tried the same throttle settings direct into the heavy wind and chop, and also at quartering angles. On average I lost only .5-.6 knot of speed from the strong headwinds. So for example the 1/3 throttle that gave 4 knots in calm/glassy gave ~3.5 knots into the wind. Half throttle would give ~4.1-4.2 knots instead of 4.7-4.8. The strongest gusts would briefly take that down another .1 knot. I then sailed for a while, with reefed main and as much jib rolled out as I felt comfortable with. Did consistently 4-5 knots, maxed out at 5.6 knots at some point. I had expected more of a hit on speed into the wind actually, with the "small" motor. So I'm pretty happy, at 31 lbs and high simplicity and what seems like great fuel economy, with a Honda 2.3 on my M17. cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com ------------------------------

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outboard questions
by Rob Bultman 21 May '20

21 May '20

I'm looking at getting an outboard for my M17 and I have a few questions. 1) If you have an external fuel tank, where do you keep it when you are under sail? 2) If you have an external fuel tank, where do you keep it when you are under power? 3) To what degree does the fuel tank get in the way either when under sail or power? 4) Any opinions on gasoline vs propane outboards? Thanks, Rob

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New member
by John Taussig 21 May '20

21 May '20

Bought “Sweet Pea” M-17 from Dave Scobie last year. Renamed Sick Chicken - I live on Lake Sammamish WA from Sept to June but this year moving to Bellingham WA for 3 months. Looking forward to sailing and exploring Puget Sound. Used to race a S-2 7.9 but getting old quickly and now just enjoy sailing and racing boats that don’t even know we are racing! Hah! John Sent from my iPhone

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