July 2010 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Considering an M 15
by Bill Riker 15 Jul '10

15 Jul '10

Daniel, On the other hand, I've bounced my M-15 in the sand a few times and not had a problem with the cb sticking. Mine is an oldie, 1981-built, but hasn't be wet-stored and the cb is loose and rattles in the slot. Bill Riker M-15 #184 Storm Petrel -----Original Message----- >From: Daniel Rich <danielgrich(a)gmail.com> >Sent: Jul 14, 2010 6:12 PM >To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com >Subject: Re: M_Boats: Considering an M 15 > > Now, I understand there is some debate about beaching this boat. I >sail often in Tomales Bay, with wonderful beaches for sailing up >smoothly. I beach my Vagabond easily as it is a light dinghy. How about >the M-15. I know some are worried about the centerboard trunk fouling >with muck. Thoughts here? > >Daniel > >On 7/14/2010 9:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >> in my opinion the montgomery boats are better for three reasons - >> >> quality of build >> sailing ability >> comfort >> >> for the above you have - >> >> montgomery boats cost more. a P15 of similar age is about 1/2 the cost of an M15. >> >> potters are fun to sail ... but they sail like a dog. they loose seaway, are slow, are a wet ride and pound in any sea above 1/2-a-foot. now it can be said if you just want to be sailing 'who cares'. >> >> jerry montgomery and bob build solid boats. i've never seen a discussion about a mboat being of poor finish (the limiting factor on the used market are the owners and if they keep the boats in good repair). >> >> the older m15s do have a design flaw ... steel ballast and centerboard. the centerboard in the older M15s is steel wrapped in fiberglass. issues of stuck centerboards are reported. these are RARE. these come in boats that are wet stored for LONG periods of time. these boats are also lacking in basic maintenance. my M15, which i sold last year because i purchased an M17, had steel ballast and centerboard. she was always dry stored, and like most m15s, has no problems with swelling of the skeg keel or centerboard due to rust. >> >> potters have their own centerboard issues. the board can leak water into the cabin if the seal is not securely put in place; and the board can come off the rotation pin during a knockdown. neither of these can occur in the M15. >> >> you can sleep comfortably on a M15. you have a porta potti that IS usable under sail. m15s have an amazing ability to store lots of items (to much really as you can overload the boat) ... potters have limited storage room. overall the interior of the m15 is 'spacious' (for the size of the boat) and it isn't all that bad to spend time in the cabin. the p15's cabin is VERY small and bisected by the centerboard trunk and compression post (there is no post in the M15 and the centerboard is housed below the cabin giving you SPACE). if you cruise these are important. >> >> the cockpit of the m15 is comfortable for sitting and sailing. the potter 15's is longer (nice for outdoor sleeping) but the footwell is shallow and the seatbacks are not all that comfortable. >> >> rigging the potter is a bit quicker and easier than the M15. this is because the p15 has a lighter mast that is shorter. neither is difficult. i could rig my 15 in 30-40 minutes. >> >> neither boat is heavy and both can be stored in a garage. the potter is lighter and therefore can be towed by a wider line of cars. the potter also sits lower in a trailer as she has no skeg keel (a bit easier to launch from a shallow ramp). >> >> the potter has more initial stability than a M15. the M15 is more stable when the wind comes up as she has an excellent hull shape (though designed by jerry she is heavily inspired by lyle hess's m17 design) meaning she gets to about 15 degrees and becomes very stiff. i only read about one M15 going over ... and the situation was a result of many errors by the captain. some have gone to 90 degrees, taken some water in the cockpit and rounded to the wind. the m15 has ballast and a keel. she will react like a keelboat. the potter is a centerboard boat with no significant ballast. there is a history of potter 15s going over and being turtled. BOTH boats have positive flotation. >> >> potters can't take high winds and seas. they pound in the sea (due to hull shape) and make for a wet ride (again the hull shape). M15s are a dry ride (i've been in larger boats and experienced more spray in the cockpit) that cuts the waves like a boat should. put a double reef and a storm jib an M15 will do well when the wind is in the high teens (some say a good storm jib for the M15 is a potter15's jib). >> >> so ... in the end my opinion is the m15 is the better sailing boat. >> >> now - BOTH boats are fun to sail. both are easy to rig, trailer and store. i did look seriously at the potter ... but the craft's poor sailing performance and lack of cabin lead me to the M15 (and now the M17) >> >> the final decision comes to: cost and need. save some money and buy a potter. if you want to sail (in a M15 you can put to shame many larger boats) by the montgomery. if you wish to 'mico cruise' in comfort the montgomery wins again. both boats will draw a crowd at any launch or dock (or when you are doing maintenance in your driveway). >> >> you can see more details at my old M15's www-site: >> >> http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >> >> >> >> dave scobie >> M17 #375 - SWEET PEA >> visit SWEET PEA's www-site - http://www.m17-375.webs.com > >_______________________________________________ >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Re: M_Boats: I need the Lists Help Please. Great South Bay help needed
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 15 Jul '10

15 Jul '10

Doug, Thank You - I will follow up and let you know the outcome - I appreciate it. Gary O. In a message dated 7/14/2010 7:37:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, doug_kelch(a)yahoo.com writes: Gary, One of the individuals who participated in many of our East Coast Montgomery cruisers is the Commodore of the Narrasketuck yacht club. This yacht club is mostly day sailors with a few bigger boats. He has owned his Montgomery 15 for 20 + years. His club is only a few miles East of Bay Shore. I think your father in law might join the club and server on a committee or two but could probably hook up with someone. I will send him a note, copy to you, offline as he is not an Mlist subscriber. He may help with some ideas or contacts. Good luck on the search as I would love to hear of him still being out there. It is great sailing on the Great South Bay. Thanks Doug Kelch ________________________________ From: "GILASAILR(a)aol.com" <GILASAILR(a)aol.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Sent: Wed, July 14, 2010 3:10:05 PM Subject: M_Boats: I need the Lists Help Please. Great South Bay help needed GO here. I am currently on Long Island, NY visiting my in-laws and I need some help from the list if you would be so kind. Back story - My father-in law is 90 years old and has sailed for about 75 of those years, He is showing beginning stages of language,and memory loss (possible Alzheimer's) and I appeal to you folk on the list - in the Great South Bay neighborhood- to help me find someone to sail with him as crew or a community sailing program, a ride as crew or ______. He is considering the purchase of a C-22 (in a slip at the house marina) and desires a crew as he does not feel comfortable sailing in the Great South Bay alone. He has sailed here for many years but now feels as though he needs crew - Location is Bay shore NY -condo complex has yacht basin on the property if he buys the C-22 the boat will be in the water ready to go - Is anyone interested in sailing here with him or can anyone offer a ride on their boat from time to time as I sure don't want to see him stop sailing as of yet. He is unsure of his language communications and has a hard time expressing ideas at times. For safety reasons he does not want to sail alone. I will be forever indebted and grateful for any and all assistance to help keep my father-in- law sailing. Thanking all in advance for the forum, Gary Oberbeck M-17 #316 "LB/GF!" Team Geezer Racing - Old and In the Way _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Stuck centerboard
by Seawitch 15 Jul '10

15 Jul '10

I have looked into the archives and found a couple of messages relating to the issue of stuck centerboards. My M15's centerboard is stuck and I am unable to get it to drop completely. In order to access the slot, there has to be a way to raise the boat off the trailer. I have been unable to locate anyone in my area of Utah with a boat lift or who works on sailboats. One of the articles I read in the archives showed an elaborate but permanently built lifting mechanism someone built for an M17. Not something I am able to do. Anyone have any simple suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Fair Winds, Smooth Sailing! Sandra(Seawitch #617)

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I need the Lists Help Please. Great South Bay help needed
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 14 Jul '10

14 Jul '10

GO here. I am currently on Long Island, NY visiting my in-laws and I need some help from the list if you would be so kind. Back story - My father-in law is 90 years old and has sailed for about 75 of those years, He is showing beginning stages of language,and memory loss (possible Alzheimer's) and I appeal to you folk on the list - in the Great South Bay neighborhood- to help me find someone to sail with him as crew or a community sailing program, a ride as crew or ______. He is considering the purchase of a C-22 (in a slip at the house marina) and desires a crew as he does not feel comfortable sailing in the Great South Bay alone. He has sailed here for many years but now feels as though he needs crew - Location is Bay shore NY -condo complex has yacht basin on the property if he buys the C-22 the boat will be in the water ready to go - Is anyone interested in sailing here with him or can anyone offer a ride on their boat from time to time as I sure don't want to see him stop sailing as of yet. He is unsure of his language communications and has a hard time expressing ideas at times. For safety reasons he does not want to sail alone. I will be forever indebted and grateful for any and all assistance to help keep my father-in- law sailing. Thanking all in advance for the forum, Gary Oberbeck M-17 #316 "LB/GF!" Team Geezer Racing - Old and In the Way

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beaching a M 15
by flickasf＠aol.com 14 Jul '10

14 Jul '10

I do not beach my M 15. If you get something like mud, sand, whatever, stuck between the center board and the slot it retract into, it might get stuck. Bert Felton M 15, Zephyr

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Re: M_Boats: Considering an M 15
by ndorf＠surfbest.net 14 Jul '10

14 Jul '10

Daniel, If you can make it down to Monterey for the Cruiser Challenge this year, you will have the opportunity to see up close the M15, M17, WWP15 and 19, a few Compacs, and other boats, and chat with the sailors before or after the race. The race is on Saturday and the boats will be out on the water by 10:30am, but probably most sailors will be arriving on Friday, so if you could get down there on Friday or even Sunday. I'll be there with my M15. details here: http://cruiserchallenge.com/ Welcome to the M Sailors list! Neil Dorf M15 #342 Roseville CA

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Re: M_Boats: Desolation Sound
by bownez＠juno.com 11 Jul '10

11 Jul '10

Hi Connie, Glad to see you are still monitoring the M-Boat list! We have always enjoyed hearing about your past experiences, and now we will be pleased to entertain you with our cruising tales. Time waits for no one, get out there on the water as much as you can. I think I'll be returning to one on Minnesota's crown jewels, Lake Vermillion, with my M17 come mid July. Keep the stories active my friends. Bones ____________________________________________________________ Refinance Now 4.0% FIXED! $160,000 Mortgage for $633/mo. Free. No Obligation. Get 4 Quotes! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c2be4359b36c7263bst03vuc

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Re: M_Boats: Advice sought - wire to rope halyard
by ndorf＠surfbest.net 11 Jul '10

11 Jul '10

Gary, FWIW, Someone was touting Dyneema in an earlier post. That's probably what I'll use when I go to replace my rope to wire setup. But for now, the buntline hitch to small shackle performed flawlessly. Much less sway without all the extra weight I had up previously. The knot held just fine and never loosened. No more big "knuckle" to get tangled. Neil

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Re: M_Boats: Advice sought - wire to rope halyard
by ndorf＠surfbest.net 11 Jul '10

11 Jul '10

Thanks Larry. I rig a downhaul for my jib but not the main. Headed to Oakland Estuary / Grand Ramp on Friday, launch btwn 10-11, to practice and tune-up for the Monterey Cruiser Challenge with my colleague who is crewing with me for the event. Neil Original Message: ----------------- From: Hughston, Larry Larry.Hughston(a)dgs.ca.gov Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 09:09:06 -0700 To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Advice sought - wire to rope halyard Neil, if this any help, I use Stay-Set double braided for my halyards. Green tracer starboard, red tracer port. Either 1/4" or 5/16". Use either Jamestown distributors or West Marine (but only when a sale is on). Duckworks is good too but they have a limited selection of tracer colors. Do you have downhauls on your Monty? I have my jib rigged but not the main....that is next. Where are you headed next for sailing? ----Larry Hughston Old 189. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of ndorf(a)surfbest.net Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 7:20 AM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Advice sought - wire to rope halyard Hey guys, Looking for some advice here on how to make my main halyard safer. The wire-to-rope connection on my '85 M15 has proven to be unsafe and prone to tangles. It is rigged up exactly the way it was when I acquired it from the previous owner. The wire piece terminates with a shackle, as I believe it should, but the rope end seems to be rather kludgy). The end of the rope part of the halyard is tied to a snap-type shackle. Rather than the shackle being just snapped on to the wire end shackle, it is fed through and then snapped back on the rope. While this arrangement has proven to be secure enough, the problem is that it creates a big bulge (think pig in the snake), right at the point with the two shrouds affix to the mast and also near the top of the fore-stay. Any amount of accidental buffeting in the wind of the halyard, while raising or lowering the main, causes the wire to rope joint (weighty such as it is) to easily get twisted and caught up top around the standing rigging. And when it happens, (Murphy's Law) it happens at the worst possible time. My question is, what is the factory standard setup for the main halyard? Was there supposed to be an eye splice at the end of the rope halyard? Bowline? Buntline? When it comes to sewing I'm all thumbs so I'm not inclined to try doing my own eye splice, so I'm hoping to hear that some other method has proven to be effective and reliable. Thanks all, Neil Dorf 1985 M15 #334 Roseville CA _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft® Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail

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Advice sought - wire to rope halyard
by ndorf＠surfbest.net 11 Jul '10

11 Jul '10

Hey guys, Looking for some advice here on how to make my main halyard safer. The wire-to-rope connection on my '85 M15 has proven to be unsafe and prone to tangles. It is rigged up exactly the way it was when I acquired it from the previous owner. The wire piece terminates with a shackle, as I believe it should, but the rope end seems to be rather kludgy). The end of the rope part of the halyard is tied to a snap-type shackle. Rather than the shackle being just snapped on to the wire end shackle, it is fed through and then snapped back on the rope. While this arrangement has proven to be secure enough, the problem is that it creates a big bulge (think pig in the snake), right at the point with the two shrouds affix to the mast and also near the top of the fore-stay. Any amount of accidental buffeting in the wind of the halyard, while raising or lowering the main, causes the wire to rope joint (weighty such as it is) to easily get twisted and caught up top around the standing rigging. And when it happens, (Murphy's Law) it happens at the worst possible time. My question is, what is the factory standard setup for the main halyard? Was there supposed to be an eye splice at the end of the rope halyard? Bowline? Buntline? When it comes to sewing I'm all thumbs so I'm not inclined to try doing my own eye splice, so I'm hoping to hear that some other method has proven to be effective and reliable. Thanks all, Neil Dorf 1985 M15 #334 Roseville CA

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