July 2010 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Raising mainsheet block cleat for easier release
by ndorf＠surfbest.net 17 Jul '10

17 Jul '10

Sage advice! Touche! See ya there gents... -N

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Re: M_Boats: Pardey Project
by eisenee＠aol.com 17 Jul '10

17 Jul '10

Sorry , Stan, I juess I'll have to hire a proof reader Eldor -----Original Message----- From: Stan Susman <stanpfa(a)pacbell.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, Jul 16, 2010 7:01 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pardey Project Eldor, I thought the Mings only used junk rigs?? tan --- On Fri, 7/16/10, eisenee(a)aol.com <eisenee(a)aol.com> wrote: rom: eisenee(a)aol.com <eisenee(a)aol.com> ubject: Re: M_Boats: Pardey Project o: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com ate: Friday, July 16, 2010, 4:37 PM Very well said, connie Just 1 thing to think about: airplanes stopped using hrouds to support the mings years ago, so why do we need them ldor 17 Motu iti ----Original Message----- rom: Conbert H. Benneck <chbenneck(a)sbcglobal.net> o: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> ent: Fri, Jul 16, 2010 9:50 am ubject: Re: M_Boats: Pardey Project oward Audsley wrote: oward, ou are so right! he sea and its moods haven't changed, but designers feel that any chnical tweaking, - spaghetti diameter masts with triple spreaders and ns of rigging to keep things in line - and deep fin keels that sheer t of the bottom of the boat if you hit something solid; ( I've rsonally seen some examples of this at Noank Shipyard, where the ners hit nice solid New England rocks at hull speed) and spade rudders ose upper edge will snag lobster pot warps and firmly wedge them in ace so that you can't steer, any chance they get. he answer is simple: sea-going boats have to be built for that rpose. the danger of a mast failure is not something I want to live th for the sake of an extra 0.2 knot speed advantage. Decks are for rk that has to be done a a boat. 7 degree sheeting angles, and rouds going through the middle of your deck may be excellent for erica's Cup racers who go home every evening after the race; but are usy if they impede your progress to the foredeck. (and if you can't rry a case of beer from the bow to the cockpit without learning how to nce the racing shroud rigging ballet first) egree shroud angles also add tremendous loads to the rigging trying keep the mast in place. Much higher loads on all the fittings and if e fails, its bye-bye mast. draulic backstay adjusters are another engineering idiocy. There is way you can keep the leading edge of your forestay straight; I don't re how many tons of pressure you add to it. All you eventually do is ive the mast through the bottom of the boat. If you don't believe me, ft the lid on a grand piano and push down on one of the high note rings. You can depress it; and it has very high loads (which is why e base for all the strings is a huge cast iron casting to take the credible loads caused by the tensioned strings). he old CCA design rules resulted in healthy, long lived, excellent sea ats. The IOR Rule, which later came into use, results in disposable cing boats; if something breaks; or the mast goes overboard; holler YDAY, and when rescued, order a new and better boat with more gimmicks.... ah! The old designers had it right, which is why Hinckley in Maine is ill building Bermuda 40s to order, designed by Bill Tripp in the mid-60's. esign conservatism gets you home again; modern design, where anything at breaks is a disaster, doesn't. y two cents worth onnie > The topic never came up here, but hits a hot button with me. When you look at the backbone structure of a boat like Serrafyn, you ealize she was built to go to sea. She could take it. I compare that with the recent news where a 16 year old girl was sent ut by loving parents to sail around the world on a 40 foot racing led. Her boat fell apart in the same waters where the Pardeys rode ut a hurricane and came out the other side with nothing more that a lown out sail and confidence the boat would protect them from almost nything. The point being the stupidity of sending out a 16 year old (or anyone lse for that matter) in a technology dependent death trap. Larry had it right. n Jul 15, 2010, at 1:52 PM, bownez(a)juno.com wrote: > Anyone looking for a BIG winter project?? http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/boa/1842501480.html Bones ____________________________________________________________ PennyStocks Soaring 600% Sign up for FREE email alerts on stocks that jump 600% and more! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c3f595350e88291642st04vuc _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! ______________________________________________ ttp://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _____________________________________________ tp://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats emember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ ttp://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! ______________________________________________ ttp://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Re: M_Boats: Raising mainsheet block cleat for easier release
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 17 Jul '10

17 Jul '10

Hey Jerry, sal says: "Man who beat on own chest knock self over backwards". M15 - "Justus" - 1986 - #361 M23 - #2 - being built In a message dated 7/17/2010 1:01:31 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org writes: Sal- We're going to have to remember to be very humble after the race; arrogance never becomes people. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Kelch" <doug_kelch(a)yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 6:04 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Raising mainsheet block cleat for easier release Stan, You can join me in the Gaff Cutter if you like. I could certainly use your expertise on board as I rarely ever race. I will be in Monterey early in the week and we could join the tuning session on Friday. Thanks Doug ________________________________ From: Stan Susman <stanpfa(a)pacbell.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, July 16, 2010 5:10:26 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Raising mainsheet block cleat for easier release All, I will likely be there Friday afternoon and can help as well. Also , I'd like to volunteer to sail with someone if there's spare room. My preference is sail something with them funny wrinkles on the side. Thanks, Stan aka Paintboy --- On Fri, 7/16/10, jerry <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> wrote: From: jerry <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Raising mainsheet block cleat for easier release To: ndorf(a)surfbest.net, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, July 16, 2010, 4:56 PM Neil- (and others who might be interested) Looks like there isn't enough interest to set up a special day to tune boats, so maybe we can do thise. I'm sailing with Sal in the CC and intend to leave here (Sacatomatoes) Fri morn ing and should get to Monterey about noonish. Maybe we can connect sometime in the afternoon. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <ndorf(a)surfbest.net> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 3:58 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Raising mainsheet block cleat for easier release Larry, I'll get a few digital photos when I next rig in Monterey a week from today. Original Message: ----------------- From: Hughston, Larry Larry.Hughston(a)dgs.ca.gov Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 10:48:33 -0700 To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Raising mainsheet block cleat for easier release Neil, where are you sailing these days? Can you post some images of the main sheet rig? ---Larry in Old M-15 hull 189 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of ndorf(a)surfbest.net Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 9:27 AM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Raising mainsheet block cleat for easier release Hi Gordon, On my 1985 M15, I have a swivel cam cleat with bullseye that, I don't know, may have been original equipment. The stainless plate to which both the cleat and bullseye are attached has bent down, resulting in more effort (more leaning down) to secure the mainsheet when I need to do so. I've bent the ss plate up a couple of times but you can only bend ss so much before it will break. For a visual, the my current hardware looks very much like the Harken model 240 (look on Defender). Rather than replace with a new 240, after talking with a Harken rep I have decided for the purposes you mentioned, to go with a combo ratchet block and angled cam swivel base. Prbably something like the Harken #1235 ratchet block attached to the #144 swivel cam cleat. This will should only provide a better angle of control for the skipper, but also more purchase in ratcheting in the main under sporting conditions and close points of sail. All it takes is money :-( What say the rest of you M15 sailors? Any other ideas? Neil / 1985 M15 / Roseville CA _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE - Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Re: M_Boats: Raising mainsheet block cleat for easier release
by ndorf＠surfbest.net 17 Jul '10

17 Jul '10

Stan, I have a friend who will be crewing with me for the race on Saturday, but I would absolutely be happy to sail with you on Friday afternoon after I rig and launch. If you're there to help expedite, we'll get more time in on the water and "Justus" will be served--or should I say viewed--from over my transom. hehehe Sal I should know better than to shoot off my mouth with Jerry on-board. Holy moly what am I getting myself into! Gail maybe I should actually be requesting a handicap! See you all Friday, Neil

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Re: M_Boats: Raising mainsheet block cleat for easier release
by ndorf＠surfbest.net 17 Jul '10

17 Jul '10

Stan, Jerry, Doug: Will shoot for getting to Monterey a little earlier on Friday, hopefully around 1pm. See you all there. I sure hope there's not much kelp. I sailed in the Delta over the 4th of July weekend and despite best efforts to avoid the weeds, I must have had to reach over the transom at least a half dozen times to clear them dang aquarium plants off my rudder. Wound up on the prop a few times too. Hey Sean...how's that shin? Are you sure you can't hop a cheap Southwest flight up to the Bay area to hang with us? If you can fly to San Jose I could probably pick you up on the way over. Just would need to find overnight arrangements... -N

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Re: M_Boats: Sailor's Taylor Covers
by TOMMYVAL＠aol.com 17 Jul '10

17 Jul '10

You know I use Google everyday but for some reason it just didn't enter my mind, lack of sleep will get you Found it Thanks

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Re: M_Boats: Sailor's Taylor Covers
by TOMMYVAL＠aol.com 17 Jul '10

17 Jul '10

Does anyone have a phone number for Sailors Taylor ?

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Re: M_Boats: Pardey Project
by eisenee＠aol.com 17 Jul '10

17 Jul '10

Very well said, connie Just 1 thing to think about: airplanes stopped using shrouds to support the mings years ago, so why do we need them Eldor M17 Motu iti -----Original Message----- From: Conbert H. Benneck <chbenneck(a)sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, Jul 16, 2010 9:50 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pardey Project Howard Audsley wrote: Howard, You are so right! The sea and its moods haven't changed, but designers feel that any echnical tweaking, - spaghetti diameter masts with triple spreaders and ons of rigging to keep things in line - and deep fin keels that sheer ut of the bottom of the boat if you hit something solid; ( I've ersonally seen some examples of this at Noank Shipyard, where the wners hit nice solid New England rocks at hull speed) and spade rudders hose upper edge will snag lobster pot warps and firmly wedge them in lace so that you can't steer, any chance they get. The answer is simple: sea-going boats have to be built for that urpose. the danger of a mast failure is not something I want to live ith for the sake of an extra 0.2 knot speed advantage. Decks are for ork that has to be done a a boat. 7 degree sheeting angles, and hrouds going through the middle of your deck may be excellent for merica's Cup racers who go home every evening after the race; but are ousy if they impede your progress to the foredeck. (and if you can't arry a case of beer from the bow to the cockpit without learning how to ance the racing shroud rigging ballet first) degree shroud angles also add tremendous loads to the rigging trying o keep the mast in place. Much higher loads on all the fittings and if ne fails, its bye-bye mast. ydraulic backstay adjusters are another engineering idiocy. There is o way you can keep the leading edge of your forestay straight; I don't are how many tons of pressure you add to it. All you eventually do is rive the mast through the bottom of the boat. If you don't believe me, ift the lid on a grand piano and push down on one of the high note trings. You can depress it; and it has very high loads (which is why he base for all the strings is a huge cast iron casting to take the ncredible loads caused by the tensioned strings). The old CCA design rules resulted in healthy, long lived, excellent sea oats. The IOR Rule, which later came into use, results in disposable acing boats; if something breaks; or the mast goes overboard; holler AYDAY, and when rescued, order a new and better boat with more gimmicks.... Nah! The old designers had it right, which is why Hinckley in Maine is till building Bermuda 40s to order, designed by Bill Tripp in the mid-60's. Design conservatism gets you home again; modern design, where anything hat breaks is a disaster, doesn't. My two cents worth Connie > The topic never came up here, but hits a hot button with me. When you look at the backbone structure of a boat like Serrafyn, you realize she was built to go to sea. She could take it. I compare that with the recent news where a 16 year old girl was sent out by loving parents to sail around the world on a 40 foot racing sled. Her boat fell apart in the same waters where the Pardeys rode out a hurricane and came out the other side with nothing more that a blown out sail and confidence the boat would protect them from almost anything. The point being the stupidity of sending out a 16 year old (or anyone else for that matter) in a technology dependent death trap. Larry had it right. On Jul 15, 2010, at 1:52 PM, bownez(a)juno.com wrote: > Anyone looking for a BIG winter project?? > > http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/boa/1842501480.html > > Bones > ____________________________________________________________ > PennyStocks Soaring 600% > Sign up for FREE email alerts on stocks that jump 600% and more! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c3f595350e88291642st04vuc > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! ______________________________________________ ttp://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Re: M_Boats: Pardey Project
by Bill Riker 17 Jul '10

17 Jul '10

Hi Howard, Note that another 16-year old, Jessica Watson from Australia, did the deed in a very conservative S&S 34 without breaking a sweat, in spite of several knockdowns and I think at least one 360. I followed both blogs and was never comfortable with Abby's purpose-built, tech heavy design. Jessica's boat was slower, but the turtle sure bested the DNF hare in the Southern Ocean. Bill Riker M15 - #184 Storm Petrel -----Original Message----- >From: Howard Audsley <haudsley(a)tranquility.net> >Sent: Jul 16, 2010 9:42 AM >To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pardey Project > >The topic never came up here, but hits a hot button with me. > >When you look at the backbone structure of a boat like Serrafyn, you >realize she was built to go to sea. She could take it. > >I compare that with the recent news where a 16 year old girl was sent >out by loving parents to sail around the world on a 40 foot racing >sled. Her boat fell apart in the same waters where the Pardeys rode out >a hurricane and came out the other side with nothing more that a blown >out sail and confidence the boat would protect them from almost >anything. > >The point being the stupidity of sending out a 16 year old (or anyone >else for that matter) in a technology dependent death trap. > >Larry had it right. > > > > >On Jul 15, 2010, at 1:52 PM, bownez(a)juno.com wrote: > >> Anyone looking for a BIG winter project?? >> >> http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/boa/1842501480.html >> >> Bones >> ____________________________________________________________ >> PennyStocks Soaring 600% >> Sign up for FREE email alerts on stocks that jump 600% and more! >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c3f595350e88291642st04vuc >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> > > >_______________________________________________ >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Re: M_Boats: Raising mainsheet block cleat for easier release
by eisenee＠aol.com 17 Jul '10

17 Jul '10

I know there are many of you out there who will disagree with me but 1 of the 1st things I did after buying Motu iti M17 #495 was to remove the traveler and go to a end boom main sheet. I know you don't have all of the micro adjustments available you have with a traveler but you can pop it whan necessary and cleat it without using your feet. I am not familuar with the M15 but there should be an easy fix for it. Eldor M17 Motu iti -----Original Message----- From: ndorf <ndorf(a)surfbest.net> To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, Jul 16, 2010 5:59 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Raising mainsheet block cleat for easier release Larry, I'll get a few digital photos when I next rig in Monterey a week rom today. Original Message: ---------------- rom: Hughston, Larry Larry.Hughston(a)dgs.ca.gov ate: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 10:48:33 -0700 o: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com ubject: Re: M_Boats: Raising mainsheet block cleat for easier release eil, where are you sailing these days? Can you post some images of the ain sheet rig? ---Larry in Old M-15 hull 189 -----Original Message----- rom: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of dorf(a)surfbest.net ent: Friday, July 16, 2010 9:27 AM o: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com ubject: Re: M_Boats: Raising mainsheet block cleat for easier release Hi Gordon, On my 1985 M15, I have a swivel cam cleat with bullseye that, I don't now, may have been original equipment. The stainless plate to which oth the cleat and bullseye are attached has bent down, resulting in ore effort (more leaning down) to secure the mainsheet when I need to o so. I've bent the ss plate up a couple of times but you can only bend s so much before it will break. For a visual, the my current hardware looks very much like the Harken odel 240 (look on Defender). Rather than replace with a new 240, after talking with a Harken rep I ave decided for the purposes you mentioned, to go with a combo ratchet lock and angled cam swivel base. Prbably something like the Harken #1235 ratchet block attached to the 144 swivel cam cleat. This will should only provide a better angle of ontrol for the skipper, but also more purchase in ratcheting in the ain under sporting conditions and close points of sail. All it takes is oney :-( What say the rest of you M15 sailors? Any other ideas? Neil / 1985 M15 / Roseville CA ______________________________________________ ttp://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ ttp://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! ------------------------------------------------------------------- ail2web LIVE Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology - ttp://link.mail2web.com/LIVE _______________________________________________ ttp://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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