November 2010 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Little Breeze M15
by Michael Mann 18 Nov '15

18 Nov '15

Hi, My name is Michael Mann and in 1982, I sailed the Montgomery 15, Little Breeze from CA to Hawaii. I see on the web site that she has been rescued by new owners in Hawaii and I would love to correspond with them. I am currently sailing on a container ship headed for Honolulu and would welcome the chance to make contact. Thanks for any info. Michael Mann

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Montgomery Sailboats are in high demand
by Bob Eeg 15 Jul '13

15 Jul '13

And are built with top-notch quality. There is nothing in the market place faster, better built and as good looking as a Montgomery Sailboat. I don't run a factory; I run a very small boatshop. I built to order on a boat by boat basis. I do a lot of custom work when asked. Bronze ports, Stainless ports, extra ballast, Custom electrical systems, Idasailor rudders, anchoring packages..etc. This work is labor intensive. Quality takes time. I have 3 employees. These people are highly experienced in Laminating, construction, assembly and finish. Woodworking and other skills result in a absolutely beautiful sailing vessel. I use the best sails the best rigging, the best custom stainless fasteners..and yes....(laughing) the best cushions. This last 15 months have been EXTREMELY busy; hiring new help was impossible because all the good people are gone. We had a tremendous BACKLOG and we caught a break only when Pacific Seacraft employees (let go) began filtering into our shop looking for work. We did add some additional crew in the Laminating Shop and because of that we are caught up. Pacific Seacrafts Bankruptcy was good for us. Bad for the dozens of good people who are out of work. The FIRST question of anyone buying a new boat should be 'How is the construction quality'? First and foremost that is the most important issue. I can say that everyone has experienced and will continue to experience a BACKLOG of orders; especially if the boat is as popular as a Montgomery Sailboat. When we had an 8 month backlog and I actually turned down 2 M_17 orders so we could catch our breath. It is impossible to work any harder or any faster. Now that were caught up we can get back to our normal 50-70 days (depending on model and options). Also custom work really adds to the production time. One beautiful M_17 we did we cut the V berth out of and installed an oval bulkhead, custom shelves and inline potti area; with 4 bronze ports she is an amazing boat, but custom work takes time. Expect delays if you go radical on the interior. (I think BONES has a photo of that one...) We are really one of the only builders that entertain changes and options to satisfy the customer. This new Passagemaker M_17 were building (and installing a windvane on tomorrow) is going to be amazing. Other actual boat factories that produce boats for DEALERS (that Tod mentioned) like Precision and Compac are built on Factory Production lines for a large Dealership Network. Dealers who have these boats in stock can supply them right away. But ask for major changes on a future production boat and the wait will be many months. International Marine builds boats faster with more employees but those boats are piss poor sailers (upwind) and many arrive with a list of problems that are pathetic. That's not me. So try not to focus on the TIME factor. We can only go so fast. Hiring additional help is not an option because by the time you train someone the season gets slow and you have to lay them off. I can't do that. I have people that have been with me for 20 years; I keep us small and efficient on purpose. So be surprised if we hit the delivery time; which we do quite often. Be a little disappointed when we miss it; but get over it when you see your boat. Dozens of you know me; you've arrived to see me rig your boat, pack you up and shake your hand. (Heck...Gary Hyde even brought me a bottle of wine..!..Thanks Gary.!) One man bought a new M_15 from us and a new M_17 a year later.! The C word...Cushions. I inspect everyboat before it leaves for home. Scott's boat was leaving for the Bay Area early Friday morning; I was at the boatshop at 10:30 PM Thursday night, sleeping at the picnic table just inside the door, waiting for the cushion guy to arrive with the (late) promised cushions. He drove up, woke me up and I watched as he stacked them on the deck. We left. My man arrived at 3AM and hooked up the boat and slid the cushions inside the boat. I should have loaded them myself then I would have noticed they looked good but didn't have the required 'Squeeze' factor. Let's move on, shall we....? Fair winds Bob Eeg (949) 489-8227 Boat Builder

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Re: M_Boats: racing my M23
by Larry E Yake 02 Apr '11

02 Apr '11

>So when is the next San Juan trip? Annual? Bi-annual? >Jeff Probably semi-annual. Larry

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Re: M_Boats: Need some "Sage" advice
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 02 Dec '10

02 Dec '10

Thanx Bones, I think the trailer might offer some solutions like the one you mentioned or a way to remove that part of the frame?. Maybe jacks built into the trailer to raise the boat? sal In a message dated 11/27/2010 7:47:17 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, bownez(a)juno.com writes: Stan wrote: I just repaired 2 old style M-17 with iron boards. Just referring to the lift pennant now .We found a special shackle ,slightly long with a hole at the top of the strap. We simply attached the shackle to the board put the pendent through the hole in the shackle slipped on a nylon washer to help spread the load between the pennant and the shackle and tied a figure 8 stop knot . the beauty of this system is that the knot is all trapped under the shackle and shortens the need for room between the top of the centerboard and the glass trunk, (at the hole) , Also the top of the shackle acts a a tough pendent stop instead of jamming and wearing out the old style bowline knot. I wish I would have had one of those shackles when I dropped and painted my M17 board last fall... Might you have a part number and a supplier Stan? Sal, The swing keel is a necessary item for us trailer sailors. Most of the launch ramps I deal with are quite shallow. The biggest pain about servicing the board was moving the trailer forward (sliding the 17 aft) so the board would clear the keel support roller. Perhaps a new trailer design where the frame is not blocking and the roller could be removed is the way to go. Then the trailer with boat could be backed up on ramps, the roller and stop pin removed, and the swing keel lowered. I would like to see the board made of material that does not rust like the cast iron. My 2 cents worth. Bones ____________________________________________________________ Weight Watchers&#174 Official Site. Discover Weight Loss Freedom with Weight Watchers Today. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4cf119c143bd845983dst05vuc _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Newbie lurking and M17 question
by Andrew Lucero 28 Nov '10

28 Nov '10

Hi all, I have just joined the list and I'm starting research on pocket cruisers. My sailing experience consists of a lot of windsurfing and a little catamaran sailing - mostly a long time ago. My question - how many can comfortably daysail in a '17? Weekend? We are used to being in close quarters camping. Andrew Lucero

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Need some "Sage" advice
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 28 Nov '10

28 Nov '10

Hi all, As some of you know, my wife Gail and I are involved in the development and eventual production of a new Jerry Montgomery design called the Sage 17. As all trailer sailors know, a shoal draft offers real advantage in launching and sailing shallow waters. Also, as most sailors know, going upwind efficiently is best with a deep keel. Some feel the bigger the stick, the deeper the keel. The keel-centerboard is a logical synthesis of the two needs and that’s why Jerry Montgomery and Lyle Hess chose this option. In fact, as I understand, the early Monty 17’s had a deep (3’7”) keel and the design was later adjusted because of the associated problems (launching & shallow water) with a trailerable deep keeled sailboat. I have followed problems with the pendant on some of the Monty forums as well as the current dilemma Sean Mulligan is facing with his pendant on Dauntless. Gail and I feel that the owner of any product should be able to perform, with the assistance of the factory, maintenance and repairs on their product. As Robbin suggested, early thinking of this problem would be beneficial. The Sage 17 is a keel-centerboard design with a fiberglass / lead centerboard of approx 150-250 lbs (pending Jerry's decision). While we’re in the development stage of the boat, we'd like to find and incorporate a “built in ” solution to the pendant / centerboard maintenance question, preferably without using a hoist. Jerry has come up with some well thought out ideas on centerboards, but we would also like to solicit any thoughts or solutions that trailer sailors, especially Monty sailors might have entertained. It would be nice to offer a new Sage 17 to any great ideas, but it is a bit beyond our means. We can offer a very nice high quality knife to anyone that comes up with any idea that we use. Pending Jerry’s approval, of course. Thanx in advance for your thinking time. Salngail M-15 “Justus” 1986 #361

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Re: M_Boats: Need some "Sage" advice
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 27 Nov '10

27 Nov '10

Hi Ron, Good input, thanx. I did check out Griselda when you first mentioned her here. Beautiful boat. I hope the new owner is pleased and I look forward to seeing her in Havasu. Stan Sussman says that she (FK model) was fast beyond her numbers. I think Eldor and Dorothy would agree. I can understanding your need to change though. If a successful marriage is determined by the bad habits you are willing to tolerate, I guess a boat offers the same compromise. sal In a message dated 11/26/2010 5:06:42 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, ronkeeler(a)hotmail.com writes: Several years ago, I owned a keel/CB Slipper 17 which had the centerboard pennant run to the bridge deck through a heavy PVC pipe which was glassed into the bottom of the boat. When my pennant broke, I replaced the PVC tube with another one with a threaded fitting at the bottom which I glassed into the hull. I then put a long shackle through the hole in the board (I had to remove the board to do this) so the shackle was sticking out of the threaded fitting. I attached the new SS penant to the schackle with an eye with press fittings. I was then able to run the wire through the new tube which had a threaded end to fit the fitting in the hull and a flange to attach to the underside of the bridge deck. The next time I had to replace the pennant it took about 30 minutes to unscrew the tube and crimp on a new wire. I sailed that boat for 17 years until I moved to Germany and sold her. BTW, I currently own one of those origonal fin keel M17s until Monday when the new owner will pick up Griselda. You can see pictures of the boat on the Sailing Texas website Sailboat Photo Gallery and the new owner is going to try to make Havasu with her. It will still be in the active ads until it is paid for and picked up on Monday. I love the boat but just don't have deep enough water to moor her at my dock or to cross the bar between my cove and the river to access the main part of Lake Livingston. Besides, I like the Seaward Fox I replaced her with as well as I did the Slipper 17 (same hull) I sailed for years. The 20 inch deep wing keel is not nearly as good to windward as the Monty but all boats are a compromise. Whitebeard > From: SALGLESSER(a)aol.com > Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 14:26:54 -0500 > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: Need some "Sage" advice > > > > Hi all, > As some of you know, my wife Gail and I are involved in the development > and eventual production of a new Jerry Montgomery design called the Sage 17. > As all trailer sailors know, a shoal draft offers real advantage in > launching and sailing shallow waters. > Also, as most sailors know, going upwind efficiently is best with a deep > keel. Some feel the bigger the stick, the deeper the keel. > The keel-centerboard is a logical synthesis of the two needs and that’s > why Jerry Montgomery and Lyle Hess chose this option. In fact, as I > understand, the early Monty 17’s had a deep (3’7”) keel and the design was later > adjusted because of the associated problems (launching & shallow water) with > a trailerable deep keeled sailboat. > I have followed problems with the pendant on some of the Monty forums as > well as the current dilemma Sean Mulligan is facing with his pendant on > Dauntless. > Gail and I feel that the owner of any product should be able to perform, > with the assistance of the factory, maintenance and repairs on their > product. As Robbin suggested, early thinking of this problem would be beneficial. > The Sage 17 is a keel-centerboard design with a fiberglass / lead > centerboard of approx 150-250 lbs (pending Jerry's decision). While we’ re in the > development stage of the boat, we'd like to find and incorporate a “ built in > ” solution to the pendant / centerboard maintenance question, preferably > without using a hoist. Jerry has come up with some well thought out ideas > on centerboards, but we would also like to solicit any thoughts or solutions > that trailer sailors, especially Monty sailors might have entertained. > It would be nice to offer a new Sage 17 to any great ideas, but it is a > bit beyond our means. We can offer a very nice high quality knife to anyone > that comes up with any idea that we use. Pending Jerry’s approval, of > course. > Thanx in advance for your thinking time. > Salngail > M-15 “Justus” 1986 #361 > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Re: M_Boats: Need some "Sage" advice
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 27 Nov '10

27 Nov '10

Thanx Stan, The proto should be heading back to Sac as soon as Jerry is ready. I'd be pleased to have you stare at the config. sal In a message dated 11/26/2010 3:46:18 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, stanpfa(a)pacbell.net writes: I just repaired 2 old style M-17 with iron boards. Just referring to the lift pennant now .We found a special shackle ,slightly long with a hole at the top of the strap. We simply attached the shackle to the board put the pendent through the hole in the shackle slipped on a nylon washer to help spread the load between the pennant and the shackle and tied a figure 8 stop knot . the beauty of this system is that the knot is all trapped under the shackle and shortens the need for room between the top of the centerboard and the glass trunk, (at the hole) , Also the top of the shackle acts a a tough pendent stop instead of jamming and wearing out the old style bowline knot. Sean, we can talk off line about ideas on a easy fix on the 23, Mine was a fixed keel so I'm foggy on the pendent/access issue,but I'd wager we can do an on trailer fix. Sal, I'll stare at the config. on the prototype when it's back in flat Sac. I'm in full agreement that all systems should be owner maintainable W/O much BS involved. The repairs above were done with one of our newest M-17 paternal brothers Bill Genevro who has a rather long list of engineering successes with mast design and construction, and now aviation related items among other background in product and process adventures. Welcome aboard Bill. Stan --- On Fri, 11/26/10, robbin roddewig <robbin.roddewig(a)verizon.net> wrote: From: robbin roddewig <robbin.roddewig(a)verizon.net> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Need some "Sage" advice To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Date: Friday, November 26, 2010, 2:03 PM Hi Sal, my limited experience has been with a steel ~150lb center board from my former '75 M-17 and of course the current ~350lb board from the '79 M-23 that I am refurbing. Since both boards are steel they have both needed maintenance that my fibreglass encased M-15 board did not. I have had both blasted and coated etc. to keep them from rusting. As far as weight it would be a compromise like most things, I know the center board weight is different from the keel weight in that the lower center board provides a lower center of gravity which helps the moment arm formed with the main sail center of effort or whatever the term is. I don't have any bright ideas about the pendant access since your really need some room to work ideally if you are going to unscrew the shackle and change out the pendant. Not sure an access hatch would really do it, but it might. If it could be possible to "overextend" the board with the stop pin removed but pivot pin still in that would simplify replacing the pendant and or shackle somewhat. Seems like that might be possible to design in. I do know that the 150lb board was much more user friendly in that it could be handled by one or two adults without much problem vs the 350lb which requires hydrolic assist and lots of planning to move and work with it. So if possible I would stay toward the 150lb end of the scale. Cheers Robbin On 11/26/2010 2:26 PM, SALGLESSER(a)aol.com wrote: > > > Hi all, > As some of you know, my wife Gail and I are involved in the development > and eventual production of a new Jerry Montgomery design called the Sage 17. > As all trailer sailors know, a shoal draft offers real advantage in > launching and sailing shallow waters. > Also, as most sailors know, going upwind efficiently is best with a deep > keel. Some feel the bigger the stick, the deeper the keel. > The keel-centerboard is a logical synthesis of the two needs and that’s > why Jerry Montgomery and Lyle Hess chose this option. In fact, as I > understand, the early Monty 17’s had a deep (3’7”) keel and the design was later > adjusted because of the associated problems (launching& shallow water) with > a trailerable deep keeled sailboat. > I have followed problems with the pendant on some of the Monty forums as > well as the current dilemma Sean Mulligan is facing with his pendant on > Dauntless. > Gail and I feel that the owner of any product should be able to perform, > with the assistance of the factory, maintenance and repairs on their > product. As Robbin suggested, early thinking of this problem would be beneficial. > The Sage 17 is a keel-centerboard design with a fiberglass / lead > centerboard of approx 150-250 lbs (pending Jerry's decision). While we’ re in the > development stage of the boat, we'd like to find and incorporate a “ built in > ” solution to the pendant / centerboard maintenance question, preferably > without using a hoist. Jerry has come up with some well thought out ideas > on centerboards, but we would also like to solicit any thoughts or solutions > that trailer sailors, especially Monty sailors might have entertained. > It would be nice to offer a new Sage 17 to any great ideas, but it is a > bit beyond our means. We can offer a very nice high quality knife to anyone > that comes up with any idea that we use. Pending Jerry’s approval, of > course. > Thanx in advance for your thinking time. > Salngail > M-15 “Justus” 1986 #361 > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Re: M_Boats: Need some "Sage" advice
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 27 Nov '10

27 Nov '10

Hi Mike, Could you give me more information on your boat lift? Do you store in a yard or do you have this lift at home? sal In a message dated 11/26/2010 2:02:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, mrh219(a)yahoo.com writes: The key is to have the attachment point of the pendant to the centerboard accessible from the bottom of the boat when the board is in its regular lowered position. I store my 15 on a boat lift, and easily walk under the boad to clean it and can access the centerboard (haven't looked for the pendant) as well when the boat is raised on the lift. Certainly, a 17 could also be easily raised on a boat lift - way easier than a crane or jacking it up off the trailer, and something that can usually be found on most shallow lakes. I lower my centerboard and clean it, with the bottom, every few weeks. If the board is on a pivot point, the full weight of the board does not have to be borne to take the weight off the pennant to disconnect, or to raise the board to reconnect. Adding more weight to the keel instead of the centerboard makes things a lot easier. Right now my boat is shrinkwrapped and looking at snow on her trailer. Mike m15 Anne Bonny ________________________________ From: "SALGLESSER(a)aol.com" <SALGLESSER(a)aol.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Sent: Fri, November 26, 2010 2:26:54 PM Subject: M_Boats: Need some "Sage" advice Hi all, As some of you know, my wife Gail and I are involved in the development and eventual production of a new Jerry Montgomery design called the Sage 17. As all trailer sailors know, a shoal draft offers real advantage in launching and sailing shallow waters. Also, as most sailors know, going upwind efficiently is best with a deep keel. Some feel the bigger the stick, the deeper the keel. The keel-centerboard is a logical synthesis of the two needs and that’s why Jerry Montgomery and Lyle Hess chose this option. In fact, as I understand, the early Monty 17’s had a deep (3’7”) keel and the design was later adjusted because of the associated problems (launching & shallow water) with a trailerable deep keeled sailboat. I have followed problems with the pendant on some of the Monty forums as well as the current dilemma Sean Mulligan is facing with his pendant on Dauntless. Gail and I feel that the owner of any product should be able to perform, with the assistance of the factory, maintenance and repairs on their product. As Robbin suggested, early thinking of this problem would be beneficial. The Sage 17 is a keel-centerboard design with a fiberglass / lead centerboard of approx 150-250 lbs (pending Jerry's decision). While we’ re in the development stage of the boat, we'd like to find and incorporate a “built in ” solution to the pendant / centerboard maintenance question, preferably without using a hoist. Jerry has come up with some well thought out ideas on centerboards, but we would also like to solicit any thoughts or solutions that trailer sailors, especially Monty sailors might have entertained. It would be nice to offer a new Sage 17 to any great ideas, but it is a bit beyond our means. We can offer a very nice high quality knife to anyone that comes up with any idea that we use. Pending Jerry’s approval, of course. Thanx in advance for your thinking time. Salngail M-15 “Justus” 1986 #361 _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Re: M_Boats: Need some "Sage" advice
by bownez＠juno.com 27 Nov '10

27 Nov '10

Stan wrote: I just repaired 2 old style M-17 with iron boards. Just referring to the lift pennant now .We found a special shackle ,slightly long with a hole at the top of the strap. We simply attached the shackle to the board put the pendent through the hole in the shackle slipped on a nylon washer to help spread the load between the pennant and the shackle and tied a figure 8 stop knot . the beauty of this system is that the knot is all trapped under the shackle and shortens the need for room between the top of the centerboard and the glass trunk, (at the hole) , Also the top of the shackle acts a a tough pendent stop instead of jamming and wearing out the old style bowline knot. I wish I would have had one of those shackles when I dropped and painted my M17 board last fall... Might you have a part number and a supplier Stan? Sal, The swing keel is a necessary item for us trailer sailors. Most of the launch ramps I deal with are quite shallow. The biggest pain about servicing the board was moving the trailer forward (sliding the 17 aft) so the board would clear the keel support roller. Perhaps a new trailer design where the frame is not blocking and the roller could be removed is the way to go. Then the trailer with boat could be backed up on ramps, the roller and stop pin removed, and the swing keel lowered. I would like to see the board made of material that does not rust like the cast iron. My 2 cents worth. Bones ____________________________________________________________ Weight Watchers&#174 Official Site. Discover Weight Loss Freedom with Weight Watchers Today. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4cf119c143bd845983dst05vuc

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