June 2008 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Boom vang mounting
by Paint4Real＠aol.com 03 Jun '08

03 Jun '08

That's a nice set-up on the 17's mast step, a sort of hybrid bail and pad-eye, making for the lowest possible attachment point and, so, the largest possible boom-mast-vang triangle area. With a sufficient height of boom above that attachment point, it'd be hard to go wrong with a 45 degree angle between boom and vang -- though you can find forums in which even those in agreement on the angle are at odds at how you measure it (from the fore or aft side of the mast, the top or bottom of the boom, and do you count the angels dancing on the head of a pin). This kind of detail usually seems to involve a one-design or club rule. For the sake of argument, the extremes would be uselessly weak and unacceptable. You wouldn't attach the boom bail 6 inches from the mast, nor 6 inches from the aft end of the boom. The question is, then, given the length of your particular boom, where is the ideal location for the boom bail to maximize the DOWNWARD purchase on the entire boom? I've never seen a recommendation to allow the angle between boom and vang go under 30 degrees. After that, you're not pulling DOWN on the boom so much as just cinching it up tight against the gooseneck. I'm on a 15 and, so, can't provide you a template for a 17 [So why am I posting this? Oh, just felt like talking about boats late in the evening], but I just measured the distances, and 24 years ago -- for reasons long forgotten by me, but no doubt based on some good "authority" -- I installed the mast bail bolt 4 inches up from the cabin roof (had to clear the sides of the mast step, and the boom bail is through-bolted 19 inches from the forward end of the boom. I believe the mid-point of the boom's vertical thickness rides about 22 inches above the base of the mast step. So the height of the mast leg of the triangle nets out at 18 and -- adding gooseneck and half the mast thickness -- the boom leg is roughly 23 inches. So I inched out on the boom a bit farther than a strict 45-degree equilateral triangle would have dictated. Split the difference between 45 and 30, it looks like. It's always worked out super, but then, there really isn't much relative force exerted on the boom and mainsail of a 15. In fact, a boom vang is overkill on a 15, and I don't have much occasion to use it. Kind of nice for wing-and-wing in a breeze. ************** Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?& NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

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Boom vang mounting
by Gordon Gilbert 03 Jun '08

03 Jun '08

I just bought a Garhauer boom vang for my M-17 and am preparing to attach eyelets for mounting it. Does anyone have suggestions for how far down the mast and out on the boom I should place the eyelets? I've read that the vang should form about a 45-degree angle from the mast. Gordon M-17 #377 Milwaukee

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Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 64, Issue 3
by brian gilbert 02 Jun '08

02 Jun '08

Hi JB: I have a similar arrangement, though I upgraded the stock traveller to all-new Harken when I bought Tiny Dancer. Relocating aft, as Larry has done, is probably a good idea. Getting the traveller bolts installed is a HUGE pain, since the traveller is installed before the deck is placed on the hull and there's barely any room. I have often thought about building a removable fiberglass bridgedeck for the area just underneath the traveller and aft of the companionway, since I currently have to step over the traveller to get into the cabin anyway, and a flooded cockpit will pour directly into the cabin... I nearly sunk my boat with rainwater after I forgot to re-open the cockpit drain seacock once, and the excess went straight below. It gave the bilge a good rinse, though. A bridgedeck there would add a small locker to the cockpit, reduce the volume the cockpit could hold, and makethe cabin a hair less likely to be flooded by a boarding wave. The area underneath the traveller is pretty much unuseable space anyway. It'll have to be a winter project, though. Along the same lines, another upgrade that I'm planning is to add a second cockpit drain line, well above the waterline but below the level of the cockpit sill, just in case I get another cockpit full for some reason (or something clogs the drain screen). Best BG -- Brian Gilbert Author, Fix It And Sail, The Complete Trailer-Sailor Marine Media 3404 Hartford Dr Chattanooga, TN 37415 www.sailingsmall.com From: montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com Reply-To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 10:24:07 -0600 To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 64, Issue 3 Hello All... Progressing nicely with a minor re-fit of my new-to-me 1977 M-17 "Serenita" (translation... Little Mermaid...formerly Chica Buena here in San Diego). Got the manual bilge pump hoses put back on (thank heavens my 13 year old could climb into the port locker and reach back into the interior transom cavity!), painted bilge areas under the v-berth locker, under the cockpit aft of the cabin, and in all other lockers, re-oiled interior teak, and made and varnished new hatchboards, buffed the hull, bottom painted, and new graphic striping created. All photos recorded for addition to a website at some point. Now for a couple of pending issues. 1) Traveler : My traveler car, as I have found is common in earlier models, is inches aft of the companionway entry. Despite reviewing prior archives for the list, I have yet to learn if any of the prior owners have come up with a concise solution for an upgrade or a relocation of the traveler and I would really appreciate learning from you M-17 veterans. Once I figure out whether to move it or just upgrade the components, I will record the upgrade process for addition to the Tech portion of our website, so all feedback welcome. 2) Cockpit Drainage : Ok, this seems to be a challenge. As the access to the aft area of the boat is restricted to all but a 13 year old, how have any of you solved or re-designed the cockpit drainage or does it work as is?? Mine has the single drain aft of the cockpit deck and drains to a hose which has been "snaked" and exits to a thru-hull under the water line. Has anyone changed this arrangement?? I know Carlos posted a week or so that he had similar questions....but I saw no responses. 3) Bilge Pump : Would anyone share their experience with the install of an electric bilge pump or is this not a common practice with the M-17's? If you have them, could you advise as to where you exit hoses? Thanks for any help on the above! Best, JB 1977 M-17 "Seranita" San Diego

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Re: M_Boats: Traveler Options on Older M-17's
by Larry E Yake 02 Jun '08

02 Jun '08

If you do move the traveller back, be aware that you'll be into the sandwich core area of the cockpit sole. You'll want to do the epoxy plug method when you mount your track.

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Re: M_Boats: Traveler Options on Older M-17's
by Larry E Yake 02 Jun '08

02 Jun '08

On CornDog I moved the traveler back just over a foot. Enough to give me 18" between the companionway and the track, so i wouldn't have to reach through my passengers legs to adjust the car, but it also leaves me room to cross the cockpit in a tack without the tiller getting in the way. I installed a Harken track and a windward sheeting car. Works great. I have the same cockpit drain and have found it to be adequate. If I was going offshore, I would add a couple more through the transom and cross the hoses so no water would come in when healed over. Larry On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 06:37:55 -0700 "Joe Balla" <jbsails(a)gmail.com> writes: > Hello All... > Progressing nicely with a minor re-fit of my new-to-me 1977 M-17 > "Serenita" > (translation... Little Mermaid...formerly Chica Buena here in San > Diego). > > Got the manual bilge pump hoses put back on (thank heavens my 13 > year old > could climb into the port locker and reach back into the interior > transom > cavity!), painted bilge areas under the v-berth locker, under the > cockpit > aft of the cabin, and in all other lockers, re-oiled interior teak, > and made > and varnished new hatchboards, buffed the hull, bottom painted, and > new > graphic striping created. All photos recorded for addition to a > website at > some point. > > Now for a couple of pending issues. > 1) Traveler : My traveler car, as I have found is common in > earlier > models, is inches aft of the companionway entry. Despite reviewing > prior > archives for the list, I have yet to learn if any of the prior > owners have > come up with a concise solution for an upgrade or a relocation of > the > traveler and I would really appreciate learning from you M-17 > veterans. > Once I figure out whether to move it or just upgrade the components, > I will > record the upgrade process for addition to the Tech portion of our > website, > so all feedback welcome. > 2) Cockpit Drainage : Ok, this seems to be a challenge. As the > access to > the aft area of the boat is restricted to all but a 13 year old, how > have > any of you solved or re-designed the cockpit drainage or does it > work as > is?? Mine has the single drain aft of the cockpit deck and drains to > a hose > which has been "snaked" and exits to a thru-hull under the water > line. Has > anyone changed this arrangement?? I know Carlos posted a week or so > that he > had similar questions....but I saw no responses. > 3) Bilge Pump : Would anyone share their experience with the > install of > an electric bilge pump or is this not a common practice with the > M-17's? If > you have them, could you advise as to where you exit hoses? > > Thanks for any help on the above! > > Best, > JB > > 1977 M-17 "Seranita" > San Diego > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >

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trailer lights
by jim sadler 02 Jun '08

02 Jun '08

What are you skippers using for trailer lights. I now have a light bar that I take off at launch time. The problem is that it has been known to come off the trailer when hauling the boat and drag down the hwy pulled by the wires :(. Any one using LED's ? Are they waterproof? Where do you skippers get them. Capt'n James A. Sadler skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15

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Traveler Options on Older M-17's
by Joe Balla 02 Jun '08

02 Jun '08

Hello All... Progressing nicely with a minor re-fit of my new-to-me 1977 M-17 "Serenita" (translation... Little Mermaid...formerly Chica Buena here in San Diego). Got the manual bilge pump hoses put back on (thank heavens my 13 year old could climb into the port locker and reach back into the interior transom cavity!), painted bilge areas under the v-berth locker, under the cockpit aft of the cabin, and in all other lockers, re-oiled interior teak, and made and varnished new hatchboards, buffed the hull, bottom painted, and new graphic striping created. All photos recorded for addition to a website at some point. Now for a couple of pending issues. 1) Traveler : My traveler car, as I have found is common in earlier models, is inches aft of the companionway entry. Despite reviewing prior archives for the list, I have yet to learn if any of the prior owners have come up with a concise solution for an upgrade or a relocation of the traveler and I would really appreciate learning from you M-17 veterans. Once I figure out whether to move it or just upgrade the components, I will record the upgrade process for addition to the Tech portion of our website, so all feedback welcome. 2) Cockpit Drainage : Ok, this seems to be a challenge. As the access to the aft area of the boat is restricted to all but a 13 year old, how have any of you solved or re-designed the cockpit drainage or does it work as is?? Mine has the single drain aft of the cockpit deck and drains to a hose which has been "snaked" and exits to a thru-hull under the water line. Has anyone changed this arrangement?? I know Carlos posted a week or so that he had similar questions....but I saw no responses. 3) Bilge Pump : Would anyone share their experience with the install of an electric bilge pump or is this not a common practice with the M-17's? If you have them, could you advise as to where you exit hoses? Thanks for any help on the above! Best, JB 1977 M-17 "Seranita" San Diego

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Re: M_Boats: trailer lights
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 02 Jun '08

02 Jun '08

FWIW - Do not immerse your trailer wheel bearings until they are cool enough to hold your unprotected hand on the bearing cap without discomfort. 'Bearing buddy' type hubcaps will allow water in thru the axle seal if they are deposited into cold water after a long hot run on the highway. Cheap lights and change em when needed. My votes. GO. LB/GF! M-17 # 316a 'that ain't bad gelcoat -it's "patina"! Team Geezer Racing.....Old and in the Way Arizona Sailing Squadron **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

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Re: M_Boats: trailer lights
by Wcpritchett＠aol.com 02 Jun '08

02 Jun '08

I use standard lights that clip on port and stb stern cleats. They never get dunked. About LEDs...to be blunt I'd say don't buy them. Instead of LEDs, use standard lights and give all contact surfaces a liberal coating of dielectric grease. If you already have LEDs, seal the wires with a good caulk. For the last 2 or so yrs I've worked pt for a marine supply house who sells all types and brands of trailer lights. We see high LED failure rates (compared to the amount sold) and LED owners are changing back to standard lights. Most that come back are about a yr old and it isn't brand specific. It appears water gets into the assembly where the harness enters the fixture. They seal it with a rigid epoxy type material that doesn't stay tight around the wire insulation...water definitely gets inside and weeps out where the wires enter when I see them. My guess is the insulation shrinks enough to let water in. On a different tack but also related to trailering...high numbers of oil filled (greaseless) wheel hubs are giving problems with leaks. We see too many unhappy users on these too. It's another product (like LEDs) where it works fine on land (big rig trucks) but not so fine on boat trailers. Grease and bearing protectors (Bearing Buddy types) are way more reliable and predictable. Bill **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

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Re: M_Boats: trailer lights
by Mark Escovedo 02 Jun '08

02 Jun '08

Hey James, Try this site: etrailer.com I purchase much of what I use on my trailer from this site. And yes I currently have LED lights on my trailer. Fair Winds Mark E M17 Flushdeck #103 "AMY" ----- Original Message ---- From: jim sadler <jimsadler(a)jascopacific.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, June 1, 2008 4:54:33 PM Subject: M_Boats: trailer lights What are you skippers using for trailer lights. I now have a light bar that I take off at launch time. The problem is that it has been known to come off the trailer when hauling the boat and drag down the hwy pulled by the wires :(. Any one using LED's ? Are they waterproof? Where do you skippers get them. Capt'n James A. Sadler skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15 _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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