April 2008 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Mast step compression post bedding compound
by Danelle Landis 09 Apr '08

09 Apr '08

Maybe a trailering/sailing trip up through Canada? Then a summer of sailing around southeast! Danelle And Danielle in Ketchikan, my daughter lived in Ketchikan, not me. But I got to see where you are. For sailing, it beats being a mile up in a near desert. Oh well! David in Boulder __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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M-15 CDI furler installation...
by Louis Aliotta 08 Apr '08

08 Apr '08

I installed a CDI furler on my boat over the weekend. I was dissappointed after the first day, since the upper part of the furler hit against the mast and the foot of the luff didn't fit into the lower part of the guide track. After sleeping on it, I decided to use an elongated shackle to bring the head of the unit out from the mast enough to clear it. I think the shackle will work well, but I must be sure to tighten it well before each use, just to be sure it doesn't work loose. I will keep a close eye on it for awhile! This also meant that I had to open the furling unit and adjust the turnbuckle to compensate for the length of the extra shackle at the top. After accomplishing that task I decided that I would have to cut the lower part of the cording in the luff so the lower part of the luff could be inserted into the lower part of the luff track and also to allow the groumet to be easily fastened to the downhaul on the turning drum. I may have to have alittle stitching done on the luff foot and perhaps even have it shortened alittle so I can down haul better. I believe it will work well even without the last two procedures. I did manage to avoid installing fairleads to guide the retractor line. I just used one pulley block and conected it to the eye for the lower safety line on my bow rail. The boat is so short that it only needs to be cleated off on the cleat that already exists on the cockpit gunwall. I don't know if this will be helpful for anyone installing a furler, but I had a furler on my last boat and I'm sure it will be well worth having again despite the the pitfalls of installing it. "Still The One" Lou Aliotta

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Re: M_Boats: Raven
by Larry E Yake 07 Apr '08

07 Apr '08

>Good to hear that Raven is almost complete, except of course that Faith will now be the ugly step-sister to all these beautiful M23s! You're way too modest, Mark! Faith is a beauty! All this early talk about San Juans 2009 with up to 7 M23's already interested (Wow!) is going to make it awfully hard to wait for another year to roll around. We might have to make it a two week tour to make it worth the wait! (I'll tell my wife three weeks, she'll argue for one, and we'll settle on two.) Larry

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Compression post conversation w/ Bob Eeg, and oarlocks
by David C. Patterson 07 Apr '08

07 Apr '08

Okay. Last note for awhile on the compression post problem I have. Bob Eeg generously spoke with me about the compression post. I'll try to pass on some of what he said: 1) No need to bed the base of the lower post with 5200. Rather, he encouraged making a "dough nut" around the base with cloth and resin after sanding my liner to help it stick. The main idea being not to let the base of the post slide out of place. 2) They raise the berth liner a bit with a jack and let it back down on the post to hold it, and I think he said to add a screw or bolt through to the post cap. 3) Bolt down the lower cap of the upper compression post, and arrange another dough nut, of wood, around the top of the post, maybe even letting the post into the wood block under the mast base, inside the cabin. He said 5200 could be used at the top. I assume a jack could be carefully used in that process too. The main thing he conveyed, as did Bill I believe, is that the posts need to be kept from sliding out of place so they can do their job of taking the vertical load. He uses aluminum posts (I think he said) on the new M boats cut from stock used on Cat 24's, that he gets from Garhauer. I didn't ask if they were tubular, or spar stock. He also talked with me about putting oarlocks on my M17 with the aluminum toerail, since there can be no genoa track along the edge of the deck with those toerails. He suggested mocking up wood blocks for position and height, then having aluminum blocks manufactured as with Strawanza, then bolting them on through the deck for use. Bob, if you read this I hope I have passed this along accurately. And thanks again for your time. David Patterson

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Re: M_Boats: Mast step compression post bedding compound
by RandyG 07 Apr '08

07 Apr '08

David, Our boats are similar in age, ours is hull #410. The lower half of our compression post is also bedded in a huge amount of silicone. I believe it came from the factory that way. Our lower-half is also a section of aluminum extrusion, probably the same as the boom. This lower half is not angled but rather straight in-line with the upper half of the post. The upper half aluminum extrusion of our compression post was replaced by a previous owner with a similar diameter furniture leg. I talked with Jerry Montgomery about this. And, after examining it (determining it was installed correctly, the right length, and from all appearances seems to be doing the job of a compression post) he suggest I run with it. Sounds weird I know, but I'm continuing to use it and it has worked well. I would imagine either the upper or lower half of the compression post could be replaced with suitable lumber. Randy Graves ________________________________________ From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of David C. Patterson [davidcpatterson(a)msn.com] Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 8:44 AM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Mast step compression post bedding compound Here's something that I need help and information about that perhaps someone on the list has dealt with. My new/old M17 Cloud Girl (#393) is sitting on the trailer while I get acquainted with all the work ahead of me. I want to get her on the water this summer at a local reservoir. But...I bought the boat based on an ad, sight unseen, because it was too far away. The ad cited a new mast as one attraction. Of course, I began to wonder. What happened to the old one? I learned that it broke off at the spreaders, no reason given why. I found the port shroud turnbuckles had some bent toggles and damaged parts to replace (and she is more than overdue for all the standing rigging to be re-done). Looking further into things I discovered that the mast compression post seemed not to be quite straight. So I delved even further to discover my current problem. Under the forward berth there is a 15 inch post down to the mast step. The mast step is partly molded into the liner. My compression post there is of the same stock as my boom, 2 inch diameter and complete with sail groove. (Please pardon my lack of nautical terms here.) It was definitely not vertical, but at an observable angle, and crudely bedded in silicon caulk. I took out the upper post, and removed wires that were running in the sail groove of that (in fact removed all the wiring for future replacement), and cut the caulk to release the lower compression post. I discovered one end of the post was poorly sawn--uneven--but I easily filed it flat (with only 45 minutes of steady labor). Now...what do I use to re-bed it on the step? The silicon caulk was easy to remove, but seems not to provide any strength at an important spot. Would 3M 5200 or some similar stuff be a better choice? Should some sort of metal or plastic keeper be bonded in place? I am in a "do-it-right" frame of mind about this. When I put the upper post back I think I also need to know how to properly connect it to the 3/4 inch wooden backer for the mast connection above, as well. Anybody out there have any information or advice for me about these problems? And Danielle in Ketchikan, my daughter lived in Ketchikan, not me. But I got to see where you are. For sailing, it beats being a mile up in a near desert. Oh well! David in Boulder _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Re: M_Boats: Mast compression posts
by David C. Patterson 07 Apr '08

07 Apr '08

Thanks, Tom, Bill, and Howard, for the response to my compression post problems. My posts are spar stock, not round. I assume round would be more stable. Are the originals round (circular at the cap ends)? Mine did have caps screwed or bolted where they met at the bunk level, but not at the block below the mast base. There it was just jammed in place. Not right. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:27 AM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 62, Issue 7 Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Raven (Nebwest2(a)aol.com) 2. Re: Raven (Larry E Yake) 3. Re: Furling line (Tim Diebert) 4. Raven (Nebwest2(a)aol.com) 5. Mast step compression post bedding compound (David C. Patterson) 6. Re: Mast step compression post bedding compound (Tom Smith) 7. Re: Mast step compression post bedding compound (Wcpritchett(a)aol.com) 8. Re: Mast step compression post bedding compound (Howard Audsley) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 23:47:52 EDT From: Nebwest2(a)aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Raven To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <c68.2766d59f.3529a1e8(a)aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" You go Larry!!!! Two weeks in '09??? I'm in! If I have to spend a week on the road, might as well spend two solid weeks enjoying the trip!!!! I wish it were this year.......14 months to go! Saving my vacation time already! Sean M23 Dauntless **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 21:09:27 -0700 From: Larry E Yake <leyake(a)juno.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Raven To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <20080405.210927.2064.7.leyake(a)juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Better start saving gas money, too! On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 23:47:52 EDT Nebwest2(a)aol.com writes: > You go Larry!!!! Two weeks in '09??? I'm in! If I have to spend a > week on > the road, might as well spend two solid weeks enjoying the trip!!!! > I wish it > were this year.......14 months to go! > > Saving my vacation time already! > > Sean > M23 Dauntless > > > > **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel > Guides. > > (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv000300000000 16) > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 15:37:38 -0700 From: "Tim Diebert" <tim(a)timtone.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Furling line To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <001901c89836$d153dfd0$73fb9f70$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My 17 had a furler on it when I bought it. For the short time it was there (I am not a fan) I used stantion mounted fairleads to run furling line back to the coaming and to a swivel cam cleat. It gets line and hardware off the narrow side deck. They work very well and look like this. http://relimg.reliancemarine.com/455.jpg My units swivel and adjust to suit the line angle....but the one pictured is fixed I believe. You get the idea. Mine is now used for a downhaul. Tim in Kelowna M17 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of JDavies104(a)aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 2:05 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Furling line I'm putting a CDI furler on my M-17 and would like to take advantage of others experience as to the best way to run the furling line back to the cockpit. There are at least a couple of ways I can think of to do it, so if anyone particularly likes (or doesn't like, and would do it differently if they had it to do over) the arrangement they have, I'd like to know how you did it and why you either like (or don't like) it. I'm trying to minimize the holes in the deck, particularly since the next one I drill will be my first, so I'd like to get it at least close to right the first time. Thanks and Happy Spring to all! Rick M-17 #633 Lynne L ************** Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1362 - Release Date: 4/6/2008 11:12 AM ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 11:12:01 EDT From: Nebwest2(a)aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Raven To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <cc9.2d846c0b.352b93c1(a)aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" No kidding! I have to figure out a way to tow her with my little Toyota with its 22RE four banger! Last year's fuel bill was over $1000.00.....can't even imagine what next year's will be.....man, Jo's gonna have to work a lot of overtime! ;-) Sean **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 09:44:43 -0600 From: "David C. Patterson" <davidcpatterson(a)msn.com> Subject: M_Boats: Mast step compression post bedding compound To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <BLU115-DAV1247B46D31976F77DE1C55ACF30(a)phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here's something that I need help and information about that perhaps someone on the list has dealt with. My new/old M17 Cloud Girl (#393) is sitting on the trailer while I get acquainted with all the work ahead of me. I want to get her on the water this summer at a local reservoir. But...I bought the boat based on an ad, sight unseen, because it was too far away. The ad cited a new mast as one attraction. Of course, I began to wonder. What happened to the old one? I learned that it broke off at the spreaders, no reason given why. I found the port shroud turnbuckles had some bent toggles and damaged parts to replace (and she is more than overdue for all the standing rigging to be re-done). Looking further into things I discovered that the mast compression post seemed not to be quite straight. So I delved even further to discover my current problem. Under the forward berth there is a 15 inch post down to the mast step. The mast step is partly molded into the liner. My compression post there is of the same stock as my boom, 2 inch diameter and complete with sail groove. (Please pardon my lack of nautical terms here.) It was definitely not vertical, but at an observable angle, and crudely bedded in silicon caulk. I took out the upper post, and removed wires that were running in the sail groove of that (in fact removed all the wiring for future replacement), and cut the caulk to release the lower compression post. I discovered one end of the post was poorly sawn--uneven--but I easily filed it flat (with only 45 minutes of steady labor). Now...what do I use to re-bed it on the step? The silicon caulk was easy to remove, but seems not to provide any strength at an important spot. Would 3M 5200 or some similar stuff be a better choice? Should some sort of metal or plastic keeper be bonded in place? I am in a "do-it-right" frame of mind about this. When I put the upper post back I think I also need to know how to properly connect it to the 3/4 inch wooden backer for the mast connection above, as well. Anybody out there have any information or advice for me about these problems? And Danielle in Ketchikan, my daughter lived in Ketchikan, not me. But I got to see where you are. For sailing, it beats being a mile up in a near desert. Oh well! David in Boulder ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 08:55:42 -0700 From: "Tom Smith" <openboatt(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mast step compression post bedding compound To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <000501c898c7$d641f5e0$6501a8c0@Fairfield> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I suspect, because there is only compression loading on the support, sheer strength is really not important with the lower post David, and that 5200 would work fine. Matter of fact, it's probably better not to install it in a more permanent fashion so you can remove it easily in the future if necessary. 5200 is probably permanent enough. I've never removed the upper compression post, so I don't know how it's connected. Someone else will have to weight in on that one... Tom Just My 2 Cents ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 12:01:12 EDT From: Wcpritchett(a)aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mast step compression post bedding compound To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <d1c.20120d6d.352b9f48(a)aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" If I understand correctly you are asking what to use as a structural gap filler to be used in compression at the base of the mast. If that's the question then the answer is NO. No caulk is structural in compression. Adhesive caulk like 5200 could be termed "structural" for gluing but not structural in compression where the surface isn't supposed to flex. Build the gap with structural epoxy filler. Bill P. **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 11:26:53 -0500 From: Howard Audsley <haudsley(a)tranquility.net> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mast step compression post bedding compound To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <c3868685ba578f9fcebb42f13819a9bf(a)tranquility.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On my 1978 M17, there are two compression posts inside the cabin. http://www.msogphotosite.com/MSOG/b17audasea/b17audasea2.jpg and http://www.msogphotosite.com/MSOG/b17audasea/b17audasea4.jpg One above the bunk and a shorter one under the bunk. Going from memory but it seems to me that both are round tubes fitted inside brackets that are screwed in place. Sounds like somebody has jury rigged a replacement. And a new problem I've never heard of before! I think you will be happier if you can replace those tubes and brackets with original equipment. The mast step can be replaced too. Some really nice ones have been made. An equally big job might be getting all the mast hardware installed in all the right places. All of these would be important for performance and structural integrity. I'd go slow on this one. Be patient and get it right. Howard On Apr 7, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Tom Smith wrote: > > I suspect, because there is only compression loading on the support, > sheer > strength is really not important with the lower post David, and that > 5200 > would work fine. Matter of fact, it's probably better not to install > it in > a more permanent fashion so you can remove it easily in the future if > necessary. 5200 is probably permanent enough. > > I've never removed the upper compression post, so I don't know how it's > connected. Someone else will have to weight in on that one... > > Tom > Just My 2 Cents > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 62, Issue 7 ***********************************************

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Mast step compression post bedding compound
by David C. Patterson 07 Apr '08

07 Apr '08

Here's something that I need help and information about that perhaps someone on the list has dealt with. My new/old M17 Cloud Girl (#393) is sitting on the trailer while I get acquainted with all the work ahead of me. I want to get her on the water this summer at a local reservoir. But...I bought the boat based on an ad, sight unseen, because it was too far away. The ad cited a new mast as one attraction. Of course, I began to wonder. What happened to the old one? I learned that it broke off at the spreaders, no reason given why. I found the port shroud turnbuckles had some bent toggles and damaged parts to replace (and she is more than overdue for all the standing rigging to be re-done). Looking further into things I discovered that the mast compression post seemed not to be quite straight. So I delved even further to discover my current problem. Under the forward berth there is a 15 inch post down to the mast step. The mast step is partly molded into the liner. My compression post there is of the same stock as my boom, 2 inch diameter and complete with sail groove. (Please pardon my lack of nautical terms here.) It was definitely not vertical, but at an observable angle, and crudely bedded in silicon caulk. I took out the upper post, and removed wires that were running in the sail groove of that (in fact removed all the wiring for future replacement), and cut the caulk to release the lower compression post. I discovered one end of the post was poorly sawn--uneven--but I easily filed it flat (with only 45 minutes of steady labor). Now...what do I use to re-bed it on the step? The silicon caulk was easy to remove, but seems not to provide any strength at an important spot. Would 3M 5200 or some similar stuff be a better choice? Should some sort of metal or plastic keeper be bonded in place? I am in a "do-it-right" frame of mind about this. When I put the upper post back I think I also need to know how to properly connect it to the 3/4 inch wooden backer for the mast connection above, as well. Anybody out there have any information or advice for me about these problems? And Danielle in Ketchikan, my daughter lived in Ketchikan, not me. But I got to see where you are. For sailing, it beats being a mile up in a near desert. Oh well! David in Boulder

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Re: M_Boats: Mast step compression post bedding compound
by Wcpritchett＠aol.com 07 Apr '08

07 Apr '08

If I understand correctly you are asking what to use as a structural gap filler to be used in compression at the base of the mast. If that's the question then the answer is NO. No caulk is structural in compression. Adhesive caulk like 5200 could be termed "structural" for gluing but not structural in compression where the surface isn't supposed to flex. Build the gap with structural epoxy filler. Bill P. **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)

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Raven
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 07 Apr '08

07 Apr '08

No kidding! I have to figure out a way to tow her with my little Toyota with its 22RE four banger! Last year's fuel bill was over $1000.00.....can't even imagine what next year's will be.....man, Jo's gonna have to work a lot of overtime! ;-) Sean **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)

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Furling line
by JDavies104＠aol.com 06 Apr '08

06 Apr '08

I'm putting a CDI furler on my M-17 and would like to take advantage of others experience as to the best way to run the furling line back to the cockpit. There are at least a couple of ways I can think of to do it, so if anyone particularly likes (or doesn't like, and would do it differently if they had it to do over) the arrangement they have, I'd like to know how you did it and why you either like (or don't like) it. I'm trying to minimize the holes in the deck, particularly since the next one I drill will be my first, so I'd like to get it at least close to right the first time. Thanks and Happy Spring to all! Rick M-17 #633 Lynne L ************** Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)

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