January 2008 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: Water in hull -montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 59, Issue 27
by Bonnie Kostka 27 Jan '08

27 Jan '08

Discovered about 3 inches of water in the very front of the boat when I unscrewed the front hatch cover off. Also, there was pieces of Styrofoam. Is there suppose to be Styrofoam there? In the summer I leave my monty 15 in the water at a dock. Could the water be rain water. Comments, suggests or help. Bonnie montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: CDI Furler on M-15 (Wcpritchett(a)aol.com) 2. Re: CDI Furler on M-15 (GILASAILR(a)aol.com) 3. Re: CDI Furler on M-15 (ORLANDO VELEZ) 4. Re: CDI Furler on M-15 (JDavies104(a)aol.com) 5. Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear (Doug Kelch) 6. RE: Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear (Tim Diebert) 7. RE: Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear (Tim Diebert) 8. Don Haas M15 "Dream Catcher" (Bill Lamica) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:43:35 EST From: Wcpritchett(a)aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: CDI Furler on M-15 To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com, RKGraves(a)cite.nic.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I don't about physics but CDI is just following the best rigging practice. Toggles are better than no toggles. They minimize side loading fatigue at the terminal ends. If you want the best setup use toggles on all your standing wire. **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp0030000… 48) ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 23:56:33 EST From: GILASAILR(a)aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: CDI Furler on M-15 To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Rick, The strains (loads) on the forstay are much greater (very technical term - MUCH greater) as the foil its drum line and sail are all available to be literally flailed about on the forestay as it is being furled. You will experience at some time in the future, the entire furler/sail combo wildly flogging about - this is amplified if your headstay is not tight enough (good case for a powerful backstay adjuster or in the case of the 15 - tight shrouds). I have found over the years of installing a couple (LOL) of FF's that - #1. the foil itself likes to be completely straight and flat. We used to drill a 3/16 hole in each end of the foil and stretch them on a fence in the hot sun for a couple of days - truckers hitches to tension them. #2. the headstay needs to be somewhat tighter than you may be used to with hanked on sails. The tighter forestay will take some of the movement out of the upper end of the forestay. Make sure the upper bearing is riding on the swedge body fitting (fork or eye) as you do not want the bearing piece to abrade the wire itself. NFIW but the CDI Flexible Furler is a great piece of equipment - Do they still have that very interesting warranty coverage claim? The one about the vehicle driving over the foil? I am not a big fan of furlers but when I bite the bullet - CDI will get my money. GaryO M-17 # 316a Team Geezer Racing...Old and In the Way **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp0030000… 48) ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:07:36 -0800 (PST) From: ORLANDO VELEZ Subject: Re: M_Boats: CDI Furler on M-15 To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Message-ID: <972650.51259.qm(a)web84009.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 My M15 came with a Mini St CDI furler when I bought it. It has a turnbuckle, and It seems to me that the only thing that fits in there is the turnbuckle. I dont see how to pass the eye through the halyard top fitting into the plastic luff or the bottom of the cup. Even if you modify the system, the adjuster may interfere with the rotation of the system while in a rush. Maybe Jerry can make a forestay with a turnbuckle for you Louis Aliotta wrote: I have a CDI furler that I want to install on my M-15. I read the instructions and it says to use a turnbuckle inside of the furling unit. Has anyone installed one and can you use the stay adjuster that is standard on the M-15 forestay. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 08:58:56 EST From: JDavies104(a)aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: CDI Furler on M-15 To: GILASAILR(a)aol.com, montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" About the foil needing to be straight and flat, CDI says that putting it on the forestay will take care of that if it isn't quite straight. That said, I found that in spite of CDI's suggestion that you need several people around to help straighten and reverse coil it, I found that after it was uncoiled for ten or fifteen minutes it lay straight and flat (no reverse coiling needed) on the floor, where it still is, waiting for some warm(er) weather. Still have to figure out how to get it into (or onto) the car for the trip to the boat .... CDI's warranty is for six years, and covers only hazards at sea (including unseamanlike use and dismastings), but not any abuse of the foil when off the boat, when it must be stored straight and flat at all times. Any kinks or bends that the owner puts in (such as by driving a truck over it) I think are the owner's problem. Rick ************** Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp0030000… 48) ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 07:19:57 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kelch Subject: M_Boats: Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Message-ID: <346521.84767.qm(a)web58715.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 With all this talk about the CDI furler has anyone ever used the Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear? It is a 100 year old design but seems much simpler to install, use, and remove for trailering. Thanks Doug Kelch --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:20:49 -0800 From: "Tim Diebert" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" Message-ID: <002501c86108$f6a3c620$e3eb5260$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Wykeham-Martin rollers have always interested me. My intentions were to buy two of these guys if I was ever to go back to headsail rollers. I know a man who runs two of the small Wykeham-Martin units in a cutter configuration on a 16 foot boat. It has always worked flawlessly for him. The thing that appeals to me is that you can reduce sail to a manageable size in a matter of seconds. Not just dowse a headsail and carry on under main alone....but drop the big genny and then roll out the staysl to a more balanced rig licketty split. The downside to such units (the way I see it) is the sails have to be seized to the wire....or rather, you need to have headsails that have (the correct) captive wire. Most sailmakers can modify existing sails or build new sails to this style. Also, you will need a seperate headstay just ahead of the jib roller. There is no foil on this style of roller. This to me is both good and bad. Not having a foil might be considered bad because you cannot just unslot a sail and slide in another (not that this is an easy process or even one you would want to be doing on the water anyway)....just in the sense that you can change options reasonably easily. Not having a foil is good because you can more easily stow the gear when your rig is down. Not having a foil is good because that foil is a huge chunk of stuff. It seems to me that it is overkill is many ways for a wee boat. If you are using wire-in luff sails, changing sails is actually pretty easy. With the sail (to be changed) rolled up and the sheets rolled right up into the sausage, just ease your halyard, unclip at the roller, clip to a padeye temporarily, clip in new sail at the roller, lower halyard, unclip old sail at the halyard swivel, clip in the new sail, tension the halyard, set up new sheets (Or re-use same sheet set up...whatever), stow the old sail, and sail on. Not as easy as a hank on sail. But it is roller furling that has some options and I like that. If I was doing an extended cruise this would be my system of choice. For day sailing and weekend cruising hanked on sails are my choice. Another angle to this is that you are not restricted to the Wykemham-Martin products...Harken makes a modern unit that works exactly the same way. I am quite sure the Harken rig would be less expensive as well. The smaller unit can be had for under $200.US complete. The Wykeham-Martin unit close to that would be closer to $400. plus shipping from the UK. But it is hard to beat that whole solid bronze vibe. ~:0) Anything you might need to know about the Wykemham-Martin gear can be found here: http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/articles/wmgear.htm You can buy these Wykemham-Martin units here: http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/product.asp?product=294&cat=79&ph=cat&keyword s=&recor=&SearchFor=&PT_ID= The Harken roller furlers seem least expensive at Mauri Pro... and info and images can be seen here: http://mauriprosailing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=H AR434&Category_Code=SMALLBOATFUR Tim The Frozen Kelowna BC M17 Puff #369 With all this talk about the CDI furler has anyone ever used the Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear? It is a 100 year old design but seems much simpler to install, use, and remove for trailering. Thanks Doug Kelch --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:51:16 -0800 From: "Tim Diebert" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Wykeham-Martin Furling Gear To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" Message-ID: <002601c8610d$375fe640$a61fb2c0$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Harken roller furlers link was not working in my last post...... Try just going to http://www.mauriprosailing.com and use the search box with phrase HAR434 That is the model number of the Small Boat Harken furler that would be the correct size for our boats. ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:36:54 -0800 From: "Bill Lamica" Subject: M_Boats: Don Haas M15 "Dream Catcher" To: "Montgomery Email Forum" Message-ID: <3018b6c40801271236k69b1583fi50ddc035f1bb6764(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Added Don Haas's M15 to the Photo Site This link is to his page. http://www.msogphotosite.com/m15haas.html enjoy! ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 59, Issue 27 ************************************************

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Don Haas M15 "Dream Catcher"
by Bill Lamica 27 Jan '08

27 Jan '08

Added Don Haas's M15 to the Photo Site This link is to his page. http://www.msogphotosite.com/m15haas.html enjoy!

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CDI Furler on M-15
by Louis Aliotta 27 Jan '08

27 Jan '08

I have a CDI furler that I want to install on my M-15. I read the instructions and it says to use a turnbuckle inside of the furling unit. Has anyone installed one and can you use the stay adjuster that is standard on the M-15 forestay.

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Re: M_Boats: CDI Furler on M-15
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 27 Jan '08

27 Jan '08

Rick, The strains (loads) on the forstay are much greater (very technical term - MUCH greater) as the foil its drum line and sail are all available to be literally flailed about on the forestay as it is being furled. You will experience at some time in the future, the entire furler/sail combo wildly flogging about - this is amplified if your headstay is not tight enough (good case for a powerful backstay adjuster or in the case of the 15 - tight shrouds). I have found over the years of installing a couple (LOL) of FF's that - #1. the foil itself likes to be completely straight and flat. We used to drill a 3/16 hole in each end of the foil and stretch them on a fence in the hot sun for a couple of days - truckers hitches to tension them. #2. the headstay needs to be somewhat tighter than you may be used to with hanked on sails. The tighter forestay will take some of the movement out of the upper end of the forestay. Make sure the upper bearing is riding on the swedge body fitting (fork or eye) as you do not want the bearing piece to abrade the wire itself. NFIW but the CDI Flexible Furler is a great piece of equipment - Do they still have that very interesting warranty coverage claim? The one about the vehicle driving over the foil? I am not a big fan of furlers but when I bite the bullet - CDI will get my money. GaryO M-17 # 316a Team Geezer Racing...Old and In the Way **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp0030000… 48)

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Re: M_Boats: CDI Furler on M-15
by Wcpritchett＠aol.com 26 Jan '08

26 Jan '08

I don't about physics but CDI is just following the best rigging practice. Toggles are better than no toggles. They minimize side loading fatigue at the terminal ends. If you want the best setup use toggles on all your standing wire. **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp0030000… 48)

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M15
by Bill Lamica 26 Jan '08

26 Jan '08

Added David Scobie's M15 to the Boat Covers Page. While you are there, click on his name and you'll be directed to a page featuring his M15. Start at "What's New" http://www.msogphotosite.com/WhasNew.html

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News Update...
by Bill Lamica 26 Jan '08

26 Jan '08

Dear MSOG Listers. Some of you will recall the Photo Site hit a limit a couple of years back. The limit is 2000 photos. When that occurred, I bought the Adobe program to create PDF's (portable document file) and converted all of the photos of Marine Brochures to PDF format, eliminating hundreds of photos and giving room for more photos of M-Boats. Well, that limit is again upon us and as I see it, there are two solutions: 1. Point to another domain name (add a suffix to the current name) which gives us another 2000 photos. But, will double expenses of domain name registration, parking, etc. If this is the solution, the Paypal donation button will be back and I will aggressively enlist your aid:-} 2. Reduce current number of photos. One place to save a few is the "single shot" page where there are photos of M-boats that have not been put into albums. That page will be deleted. So, this is in part, an invitation to those, with single photos on that page to get their photos together for a feature page on the site. Feature pages are so much nicer. Regarding feature boats: I for one believe a ship shape Montgomery that is well used is as beautiful as a new and unused one. wash the boat, coil the lines, pick up the trash and take the photos!) Another place to save quite allot of space is Cruises. Many of the photos on the cruise pages are redundant. Randy Graves post more than I do of the NW Cruises. Sean Mulligan post quite a few pictures on his site of various trips they have been on, and others. I'd love to keep the photos of the Wood Boat Festival, but there just is not room. You all may want to visit the cruise pages and download or lift any of the photos you'd like to have to your computer. Those pages will be closed in the next two months if another solution is not created. By the way, other limitations of the Site building program are: 999 pages (we have under 200) 9999 objects - an object is anything except a photo, such as boat name, each group of words, etc (we have just under 5000) the bad news is, when a page is eliminated, you do not reduce the number of objects. (I'm researching how to reduce the object count - if it's possible). If any of you folks have a preference, write me off list. If there are no comments, I'll go ahead with solution #2. Bill

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Re: M_Boats: CDI Furler on M-15
by JDavies104＠aol.com 25 Jan '08

25 Jan '08

I have an FF2 furler that I am getting ready to install on my M-17 (when the weather warms up a bit), and agree that it installs over the existing turnbuckle, it looks like with no problem. I did have to get a new headstay above the turnbuckle, however, since the FF2 instructions require toggles (that is, as it was explained to me, freedom to move both fore and aft and side to side) at both ends of the headstay, and the stock headstay on the M-17 has a single aircraft eye at the masthead end. It's not clear to me why this is necessary, but CDI says it's important. Maybe someone can explain the physics? Why does a furler put different strains on the forestay than a hanked-on jib? The FF2 installation instructions, which are quite comprehensive, are downloadable from http://www.sailcdi.com/sailpdf/FF2 manual 7_06.pdf. Good luck, Rick ************** Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp0030000…)

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Teak care
by bownez＠juno.com 24 Jan '08

24 Jan '08

Hi Listers, Well, I don't wish to open a full blown discussion about the best way to treat our teak, as we all have our own ideas, but, I was wondering if anyone has used the Semco or Penofin oil products. My M23 teak is going to get some serious attention this spring, it has raised grain and needs to be sanded smooth. I am a teak oiler, and these two products offer superior claims to protection and longevity. Boat show this weekend in Mpls. Thanks, Bones _____________________________________________________________ Beauty Product Reviews Read unbiased beauty product reviews and join our product review team! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/JKFkuJi7GiXnb1ioYtXHYCGzUZKHTjp…

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Re: M_Boats:What wHe did last weekend.
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 23 Jan '08

23 Jan '08

"We" - I got the boat to the lake, set it up, made sure there was not enough fuel in the tank, the 150 and main were blown out, the 170 was very good, sandwiches and beer superb, and the 'other guy' sailed every race. Ask him about paddling down the fairway to the slip with my disabled whisker pole. LOL. My input was for local info and sail choice based on wind but 'Commander M' sailed ALL races. wHe won the Leukemia Cup in our class, and wHe took third overall for the fleet-same as last year. wHe won the Leukemia Cup because the guy that placed ahead of us that day by 1:50 on corrected time (27 footer) did NOT enter the Leukemia Cup part of the event - we rule by default - yeah Baby! An excellent showing of Wrinkle Boats was there, Dauntless and, ALL THE WAY FROM TEXAS, the very special M-17 Motu Iti, capably sailed by the fine team of Eldor and Dorothy Eisen, really nice people and a ton of FUN too. Sweet boat that fixed keel unit. Sean,Jo and Stevie 'Ray' Witt sailed Dauntless rounding out the Wrinkle Contingency. The Sean Gang raised lotsa $$$ for the cause and was rewarded with 'heavy schwag' - check out Seans new Mount Gay Rum ensemble the next time you see him. Some good partying on Saturday night - seeing lots of old friends out on Brownie Point, general debauchery ensued - and it was no where near as cold as last year. Poor wind if I may say so. But we were only there to Sail Race. My unsolicited opinion for the month - (Oh Gosh - here he goes again---) Windward/Leeward racing Sucks. If this is the future of club racing - I will be fishing and cruising ALOT more - 'Honey I don't need new plastic sails, but I want to go to Belize to go fishin'!' Save triangle course racing and NO R/C radio/bullhorn start sequence countdowns - if you can't run a stopwatch - go play golf - get outta the way. We will see what happens next year this time of the month. Thanks to Sean and Jo, Eldor and Dorothy, Steve and Jerry, and the Arizona Yacht Club - I had a bucket o Fun. Team Geezer Racing....Old and In the Way GO PS - Sean is FAMOUS - people walk up to him and say "Are you the dude with the webpage and that BEAUTIFUL boat?" In Wickenburg they almost roped him into a parade with Sean as the Grand Marshall and the boat! The poor guy can't escape the paparazzi! He and Dauntless are sailweb heroes! Jo is smart - she wears sunglasses and rolls in a different ride. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

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