April 2006 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Photo Site Shutting Down
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 07 Apr '06

07 Apr '06

Keith, Thanks for clearing that up the mis-understanding and the suggestions on how to fix it. I will forward that to Bill and hopefully he can get things back on line again. Sean

1 0

Photo Site Shutting Down
by David W. Wood 07 Apr '06

07 Apr '06

Thanks for posting that Keith. I will forward your message to Bill. David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)dwoodworks.com 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163

1 0

Photo Site Shutting Down
by David W. Wood 07 Apr '06

07 Apr '06

Hi Rick, I don't want to get into the middle of all this, but since I seem to be the conduit here (Bill tells me that he's been locked out of posting here for some reason), I think it's important that we keep our facts straight. The Photo Site is Bill's creation. I know, because I helped him a bit with getting his site up and running. The photos on the MSOG site that were there before Bill started his project are still there. You can see for yourself at: http://www.msog.org/boatos/boatos.cfm But all the photos and all of the other items on the Photo Site were definitely not there before Bill did all the work to put them up on the web for us to use. Some of them may have existed in other places on the web before Bill compiled them on his. But he brought them all together in one place. So the Photo Site that Bill developed is his and his alone, to do with as he pleases. He doesn't own the rights to the photos contained within, they belong to whoever granted him the license to display them on his site. And those generous people will retain the right to those photos if Bill's site disappears. They are not, and never have been the property of the MSOG site. Now I don't have a clue as to why Bill is thinking of taking his site down. But he apparently thinks that he's been locked out of posting here. I don't know if that's true, and I'm certainly not making any accusations. All I know is that is what he's told me. And he's told me little else. Perhaps someone who knows what the facts are can clear all this up. I certainly can't. But the Photo Site is his creation, and I just wanted there to be no misconceptions about that. I think it's a valuable resource for us all and I'd certainly like to see it stay here. But like I said, I really don't have a clue what's going on here. Like you, I'd like some explanation as to what this situation is all about. OK, I'll shut up now. David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)dwoodworks.com 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163 > The Photo site use to belong to the MSOG site, before Bill got > involved with > it. He moved it to his own domain for what was described as technical > reasons. I don't think that gives him ownership of the photos and > I don't > think all the contributors of photos ever expected their pictures to > disappear into the vastness of the internet. > > Bill, if you're reading this, I hope all is well with you and I > hope you > explain directly to us what this situation is all about. > > Rick Langer

2 1

re: Stern pulpet and safety gear
by Steve R. 06 Apr '06

06 Apr '06

Ron, A M-15 hull does not plane like a water skier. It is a displacement hull, which has a speed limit due to the laws of physics. A larger motor will not cause the boat to go faster. I guess I have the throttle open 60% on my 2hp Honda when my speed tops out. Also, a larger motor will put more weight on the transom. The bow will float higher, the stern lower. The center of lateral resistance of the hull will move aft. This can cause lee helm. It will also slow the boat. You may want to read up on lee helm and weather helm in a sailing book, or take a look here: http://www.sailingusa.info/sailboat_balance.htm As I mentioned in my other post, I sit as far forward in the cockpit as possible to balance the boat, and use a tiller extension. >From time to time you will find large motors on sail boats. I know of a father who purchased his daughter a 15 hp outboard for her 12 foot sailboat. The boat has been sailed only one time. steve Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY -- Ron wrote: > Also , I thought I read somewhere that the pulpit > adds strength to the transom hull-deck joint > because of the through bolting of the stanchions, > thus allowing a larger motor to be used without > joint separation . Any input? > Ron

3 3

Photo Site Shutting Down
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 06 Apr '06

06 Apr '06

I typed this....discarded it...typed this...discarded it ......Not wanting to get in the middle of something that I'm not involved in and not totally sure of what's going on. That being said, I would like to say that I totally agree with David's last post. Since before I acquired my Montgomery I have been looking at Doug Kings site, this MSOG message board, and Bill's website pretty regularly. I have thoroughly enjoyed them all. Bill has been extremely helpful to me in starting my own site. I have never thought that he has any agenda other than the love of the Montgomery boats and friendship with those of us who share that passion. It's extremely unfortunate for all of us as a group that he may be shutting down his site. Bill encouraged me to start my own site and provided me lots of help along the way. I appreciate that. In fact I remember him posting trying to get others to do the same. There was never a thought of "competition," just that it was great we could all share our experiences. Starting my own "Funtigo" site made me realize how much work was involved. Doing a page like Bill put together is a staggering amount of work, period. Then he went the next step and made his own full fledged web-page. That's even more work, and yes it cost him money which he never complained about or asked anyone to help share the costs. He requested photos be sent in to make the site and many of us participated because we thought it was a great thing. All of the webmasters for the Monty sites do a great job. Keith Diehl, Doug King, and Bill Lamica have been at this a long time and there sites are frequented by all of us. We owe all of them a big thanks. Unfortunately, Bill feels that it might be time for him to shut down his site for his own reasons. If that's what happens let's thank him for all his efforts. It's been a great run. If it stays open, even better! As far as Bill being locked out of this post board? I hope that's not the case, if it is I hope that whatever the issue is can be resolved. I thoroughly enjoy checking this board daily and interacting with such great group of folks. Thanks, I relinquish the soapbox.........next! Sean

1 0

Regarding Theoretical Hull speed of an M15
by Norm Bundek 06 Apr '06

06 Apr '06

FYI on outboards I have a 3 hp Evinrude on my M15. According to my GPS, I am at hull speed (5 kts) at 1/2 power. On a Potter trip to Anacapa Island last year, I was at almost full power going 5.8 kts (GPS). I was keeping up with another M15 with a 4 hp outboard. I still had some reserve left. We left four Potter's with 2 hp Hondas in our wakes. We were in a small craft warning. I felt very comfortable with a little more hp. My 3 hp weighs 30 lbs which is about 3 lbs more than a 2 hp Honda. The 4 hp looked much heavier than mine. Norm M15 #172

1 0

Photo Site Shutting Down
by Rick Langer 06 Apr '06

06 Apr '06

The Photo site use to belong to the MSOG site, before Bill got involved with it. He moved it to his own domain for what was described as technical reasons. I don't think that gives him ownership of the photos and I don't think all the contributors of photos ever expected their pictures to disappear into the vastness of the internet. Bill, if you're reading this, I hope all is well with you and I hope you explain directly to us what this situation is all about. Rick Langer > Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 19:23:19 -0400 > From: <htmills(a)bright.net> > Subject: RE: M_Boats: Photo Site Shutting Down > To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Message-ID: <001201c65907$f0785960$9a9ddb42@ACER> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Between now and then, I'll try to copy the site so that the info is not > lost. > > Perhaps it could be amended to www.msog.org or, if that is not possible, > I suppose I could add it to my pages or maybe even the least > labor-intensive site would be to just take over Bill's site as it is, if > he's amenable. > > Tod > M17 #408 > BuscaBrisas > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces+htmills=bright.net(a)mailman.xmission.com > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+htmills=bright.net@mailman.xmission.com > ] On Behalf Of David W. Wood > Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 6:13 PM > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: Photo Site Shutting Down > > > Bill Lamica asked me to post this note: > > The MSOG Photo Site will be shut down until further notice on May 15, > 2006. Now would be a good time to download any PDF brochures or > photos you may wish to keep. It is not certain if the site will reopen. > Thanks for the past interest and support, > > Bill > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)dwoodworks.com > 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163 > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 16:44:59 -0700 > From: "David W. Wood" <dwood(a)dwoodworks.com> > Subject: M_Boats: Photo Site Shutting Down > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Message-ID: <17C6CBC5-4FF5-452E-9A38-C7C56D619BD5(a)dwoodworks.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > After I got that email from him, I wrote back asking him about moving > his site to my server space. But he doesn't seem interested. I'm not > sure what's going on. But it's a valuable resource, and I'd hate to > lose it. > > David > >> Between now and then, I'll try to copy the site so that the info is >> not >> lost. >> >> Perhaps it could be amended to www.msog.org or, if that is not >> possible, >> I suppose I could add it to my pages or maybe even the least >> labor-intensive site would be to just take over Bill's site as it >> is, if >> he's amenable. > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)dwoodworks.com > 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163 *******************************************

2 1

Photo Site, Part Deux
by David W. Wood 06 Apr '06

06 Apr '06

Another post from Bill Lamica: Hi all, I've decided to close the site, then keep it open, then close it, then - and on and on. Let me say, I'm considering a way to keep it open and will make a "final" final decision, by the end of next week. So, no one has to do a bunch of downloading, The site information with all of the photos will stay online until the May 1st . That gives all of us a little more time. Thanks, Bill The saga continues... David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)dwoodworks.com 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163

1 0

Stern pulpet, safety gear and more
by Rick Langer 06 Apr '06

06 Apr '06

Steve, I also installed a Bomar hatch between the shallow locker and the transom, in my case to install a tiller extension lock box. I use the space as a sail locker, basically so not to add too much weight in the stern and it's a great addition. You mentioned in two posts that you want to sit as far forward as possible. Well, you might be interested in the remote steering system that Doug Kelch introduced to me on the Maine Cruise last year. Previously I built a nifty tiller extension that allows me to sit all the way forward in the cockpit. I now consider the extension useless in light of the remote steering system. It's basically a line running around the perimeter of the boat that attaches to the tiller, by which one can steer from any position on the boat. I once did a jib sail change while steering from the foredeck in a blow that was overpowering the headsail. But the best feature of this system is that one can sit in the companionway or stand in the cabin and operate the boat. Your weight is forward, all sheets are right there, you are protected, being mostly in the cabin and you are facing forward, which I find far superior to looking over my shoulder as one does in the normal tiller position. Also, you don't have to change course to see what's behind the jib, just grab it and pull to get a look behind it. It the singlehandler's dream come true. Rick Langer M15 #337 Bluebird p.s. A stern pulpit must add twenty pounds or so to the stern. > Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 05:32:11 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Steve R." <stever707(a)MAIL.SAABNET.COM> > Subject: M_Boats: re: Stern pulpet and safety gear > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Message-ID: <20060405053211.51FD4EED(a)resin07.mta.everyone.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Ron, > > A M-15 hull does not plane like a water skier. It is a displacement hull, > which has a speed limit due to the laws of physics. A larger motor will > not cause the boat to go faster. I guess I have the throttle open 60% on > my 2hp Honda when my speed tops out. > > Also, a larger motor will put more weight on the transom. The bow will > float higher, the stern lower. The center of lateral resistance of the > hull will move aft. This can cause lee helm. It will also slow the boat. > You may want to read up on lee helm and weather helm in a sailing book, or > take a look here: > > http://www.sailingusa.info/sailboat_balance.htm > > As I mentioned in my other post, I sit as far forward in the cockpit as > possible to balance the boat, and use a tiller extension. > >>From time to time you will find large motors on sail boats. I know of a >>father who purchased his daughter a 15 hp outboard for her 12 foot >>sailboat. The boat has been sailed only one time. > > steve > > Steve R. > M-15 #119 > Lexington, KY

1 0

Good Old Boat's Bungie trick
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 06 Apr '06

06 Apr '06

Howard, I was sailing just the other day on a friends 17 and we tried the bungie trick (although we just used a piece of line). I read the same article you did. It worked superbly The boat refused to head off the wind more than about 10-15 degrees before it would turn itself right back to head to wind, even when we leaned it over severely bt both standing on the same gunwale it tracked close enough to head to wind to still be able to raise the main. All we did was to daisy-chain a piece of line around the boomand then all the way down to the tiller. When the line got to the tiller we stuck the last loop of the daisy chain over the tiller which locked it in place. This way to get it off in a hurry all you had to do was slide the line forward off the tiller and yank on it, the daisy-chain pulled apart all the way up o the boom and off the boom. The bungie idea scared me a little 'cause a strectched bungie with hooks on it always seems to be looking for someones face to snap into. I'm sure it would work just as well, though. I've been sailing for over 20 years and never seen or thought of that trick. I love it when someone comes up with something that simple! Jason's boat has a bolt rope main making it difficult for a single-hander to feed the bolt rope, raise the halyard and maintain steerage as well. This little trick made it very do-able. I guess the only thing to consider when doing it single handedly is the old "Don't fall off!" 'cause she's not gonna round up and your not gonna swim that fast! Sean

1 0