November 2003 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: standing rigging
by Wilsometer＠aol.com 29 Nov '03

29 Nov '03

In a message dated 11/29/03 2:40:41 PM, Tom.Smith(a)itron.com writes: >Scott, are the swageless fittings available with a toggle end? I'd love >to swage on toggles rather than marine eyes... t Tom, Yes they are--at least in Sta-Lok. I have seen Eyes, Forks, Toggles, Studs, insulators, couplers, etc. Many are available in regular and long lengths also. There are many more fittings available than are shown in the West Marine or Boat US catalogs. Go to the following Sta-Lok page for examples: http://www.stalok.com/parts.asp?family=1xImperial Scott, M15#478 'bebe'

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RE: M_Boats: standing rigging
by Smith, Tom 29 Nov '03

29 Nov '03

Scott, are the swageless fittings available with a toggle end? I'd love to swage on toggles rather than marine eyes... t Tom Smith & Jane Van Winkle Sandpoint, Idaho M15-345, Chukar M17-064, Unnamed -----Original Message----- From: Wilsometer(a)aol.com [mailto:Wilsometer@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 10:55 AM To: southisland2(a)earthlink.net; montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: standing rigging In a message dated 11/28/03 8:28:05 PM, southisland2(a)earthlink.net writes: >Does any one have experience with different kinds of make your own standing >rigging, the likes, the dislikes, the problems with, the failures with >certain types. > >The some names are Navtec Dyform or Sta-Lock. > >Mike Mike, I have some (limited) experience with swageless fittings, and am researching them for an upcoming project on another boat (non-Montgomery). The benefits of swageless fittings are manifold. Unlike a swaged fitting, most swageless fittings can be disassembled and inspected. Also, the fittings can be reused (with new cones/wedges/formers), and therefore are often cheaper in the long run. Done properly, tests have proven them to be stronger than swaged fittings--often by a wide margin. Field repairs/replacements are possible with simple hand tools (can't do that with a swaged fitting). If properly sealed with silicone during assembly, they are more corrosion resistant than swaged fittings. The only failures I have heard about were due to two factors. First, there were some failures that occurred in the first generation of fittings due to bad metals. I believe this was corrected early on, and that there have not been problems since. Second, there have been some failures due to human error/poor assembly technique, but the same could be said of swaged fittings. Brion (yes that is the correct spelling) Toss of Port Townsend, WA, my favorite rigger, and the author of many rigging books/videos has put out a great video on installing Sta-Loks. I highly recommend getting one/watching it if you are considering doing these yourself. There are now several makes/types of swageless terminals on the market. Here are several that I know of: 1) Sta-Lok: Uses a wedge and former-cup in assembly--care must be taken that the individual wires (unlayed) are spread evenly around the cone, and that none of them slip into the slot in the cone during assembly. Around for a long time, and regarded as one of the best. Different wedges are available for standard 1x19 wire, Dyform 1x19 (Dyform wire is 'square' in section while standard is round), and 7x19. 2) Norseman: Similar to Sta-Lok, the Norseman fitting has also been around for quite a while. There was, I believe, a problem early in production with a bad batch of metal, but I haven't heard of any problems since. If I recall correctly, the Norseman only uses the cone (wedge) and no former. It too is available for all three types of wire. 3) Haynes Hi-Mod: Again, similar to the Sta-Lok, but incorporates a wedge/cone with individual notches for each strand of wire. This looks as if it would be much easier to assemble, as the most difficult step is keeping the wires evenly spaced and out of the 'crack' during assembly. I haven't researched these thoroughly, but intend to soon. 4) Sun-Cor: I haven't seen these yet, but apparently they are much easier to use as the wire is left intact (you don't have to unlay) with a cone/wedge slid over. The resulting 'squeeze' is more akin to that of a swaged fitting than those above. It would be interesting to see more data on these, as the installation is incredibly simple. My suspicion is that they might not be quite as strong. If/when I learn more, I will post findings. Scott, M15 #478 'bebe' _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats This message was scanned for viruses!!

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standing rigging
by MC Carpenter 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

Does any one have experience with different kinds of make your own standing rigging, the likes, the dislikes, the problems with, the failures with certain types. The some names are Navtec Dyform or Sta-Lock. Mike

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Re: M_Boats: San Juan trip
by bownez＠juno.com 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

Larry, Sounds like a blast! I'd love to be there. Anyone need crew? Bones ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

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M23
by bownez＠juno.com 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

Hi Mark, What is your M23 hull number and where are you located? Nice to know there is another fanatic out there that has a M17 and a M23. Bones in Mpls M23 #75 M17 #92 M6.8 ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

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San Juan trip
by Larry Yake 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

Hi gang, Since the subject has come up, I thought I would give you an update on the planning for the San Juan Rendezvous and see if we can't lure some of you east coast and southern sailors to hitch up your rigs and head for the beautiful northwest next summer. There's already over a dozen boats who hope to make it, including TWO M23's! One brand new (wow), and one "vintage" (cool). What a great opportunity to see all the M boats together! We'll kick things off with a weekend rally at Anacortes, daysailing around there, checking out each others boats, barbecues and music on the docks, maybe a group dinner at the seafood buffet, and in general, just a good time / car show type of atmosphere. Then sometime Sunday or Monday, those who can stay will head out for a weeks tour of the islands. If that doesn't sound like fun, your puppies aren't all barking. <grin> Tentative date is early June, to miss the crowds as much as possible. Get it on your calendar! Larry Yake M17 #200 Tullamore "In a power boat you get there faster. In a sailboat you're already there."

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Re: M_Boats: Cruising equipment ideas
by Larry Yake 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

Hi Jon, Looks like Bill covered the basics pretty well. (He always does.) A couple items I might add specific to the San Juan trip would be navigation equipment (enough to plot your position) and charts, tide book, a radar reflector, fog horn, anchor light, good binoculars, and maybe some sort of dingy. I know, it sounds silly in a 15ft. boat, but I expect we'll be anchoring out about every other night, and with 14 foot tides, you've got to stay off-shore a ways. If you want to get to shore, well... the water's pretty cold. I tow an 11ft. plastic kayak. I've been working up an equipment list for the trip, but it's not done yet. I'll send you a copy when I'm done if you want. Larry On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 22:10:49 -0500 "Bill Riker" <wriker(a)mindspring.com> writes: > John, > > I cruise a few times each year, but not not enough to justify a wet > cell > system. I do everything with dry cells. This year's addition was a > set of > LED nav lights. I bought them from a hunting/fishing outfit called > Cabela's, for about $60, since I didn't see anything similar in the > marine > stores. > Besides the nav lights, I have battery powered: > GPS > handheld VHF (rechargeable, with dry cell back up) > CD player with speakers > various lights - florescent camping lights are great for the cabin > depth finder (Pirhana 1 fish finder) works great, not that I really > need it > in an M15 > a headlight for deck work when you need 2 hands - and it always > points where > you are looking > and a solar/crank-powered radio > > Except for 1 or 2 flashlights (D's), the headlight (AAA's) and the > radio, > all take AA cells. I now have 8 rechargeable AA cells, and could > use more! > > Here is what works for me, in the safety and comfort categories. > I use about 1 gallon of water/day, and can store enough for more > than a week > under the forward berth, keeping the weight forward. I am > comfortable with > only 1 gallon of gas for my Honda 2. With the litre in the tank I > can run > about 7-8 hours, or about 30 miles. And the gallon fits in my > shallow > cockpit locker. Some store gas in quart size motor oil bottles for > easy > pouring and storage. For rough weather/cold water, I have an > inflatable > life vest with harness, tether and an attachment point under the > bridge > deck, next to the centerboard pennant. I have a 4.4 lb Horizon Claw > with > chain plus 125' of 1/4" nylon that shares the cockpit locker with > the fuel > can. My storm anchor is an 11 lb Claw with 125' of 3/8" nylon and a > few > feet of chain. Overkill for the 15. It lives under the port berth > with my > dock lines. My 6' X 7' nylon boom tent is almost a necessity for > both hot > and wet weather. A patch of mosquito netting for use on the main > hatch, > when necessary. A warm sleeping bag. That's the important stuff > that comes > to mind. If there is anything I missed, I'm sure others will fill > in the > gaps. > > Well, not everything. The second reef in the main and storm jib may > be the > most important safety items. > > Have fun! > > Bill Riker > wriker(a)mindspring.com > 412-341-7198 > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com]On Behalf Of > Jon > Martin > Sent: November 25, 2003 8:09 PM > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: Cruising equipment ideas > > > Hi All - I am hoping to participate in the week long San Juan cruise > next > summer in my M15. I've never done this before, and am thinking it > would be > a good way to get started with a group. I am wondering about > specific > equipment that one should have, and other equipment that would be > nice to > have - such as anchor/rode recomendations, lighting (I don't have a > battery > and would rather not get one), water and fuel amounts, other safety > equiopment, etc. I have a hand held VHF radio and a compass - what > else > should I be thinking of to get ready? My plan is to have everything > ready > by April or so, and spend a few nights on the Columbia River to get > familiar > with anchoring/sleeping etc. Thanks, Jon Martin in Walla Walla > > _________________________________________________________________ > Has one of the new viruses infected your computer? Find out with a > FREE > online computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >

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Re: M_Boats: Cruising equipment ideas
by Wilsometer＠aol.com 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

In a message dated 11/25/03 5:10:54 PM, jonmartin666(a)msn.com writes: >I am wondering about specific >equipment that one should have, and other equipment that would be nice >to >have - such as anchor/rode recomendations, lighting (I don't have a battery > >and would rather not get one), water and fuel amounts, other safety >equiopment, etc. Jon, I posted a list of what I carry for NW cruising that is now part of the MSOG. I have made some changes to my inventory, but it is mostly representative. Go to: http://msog.org/specs/boat_gear_weights.cfm Scott, M15 #478 'bebe'

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Re: M_Boats: ballast
by chbenneck＠juno.com 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

Bill, When you "heave to" you don't have a drogue hanging off the bow. All you are doing is coming about, but not releasing the jib sheet. The back winded jib is now trying to push the bow in one direction, and you adjust the tiller to hold the boat in that position. Depending on how hard the wind is blowing, you may have to tie the tiller all the way over, or, it may only require a bit of tiller in the other direction to hold your position. At this point the boat is riding quietly and peacefully. No drogues / sea anchors or similar devices are needed to heave to. Just tack and then stop the tack with the tiller with a back winded headsail. For detailed explanations of how and why you should heave to, get Hal Roth's book, "After 50,000 miles" He goes into great detail as to how to manage storm conditions; from the mild to the severe, and heaving to, is the first of his options. He also has a lot of excellent information on their experiences; boat improvements; what works and what doesn't - and why; - and the why is the most useful part of the explanation. Of course, he is talking about long distance cruising in something in the 35 foot range, but his observations pertain to good seamanship practices. It's an excellent text. Connie

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Re: M_Boats: ballast
by Wcpritchett＠aol.com 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

-R, I meant that some boats don't "heave to" in big seas by using just the sails and tiller lashed. B

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