May 2002 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Dinghy for M15
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 21 May '02

21 May '02

We had a Walker Bay for a couple of years. It's a surprisingly good sailor with the performance sailing rig. With enough wind, you may even see 5 mph! Steve Tyree, P-15 #2098 Amy Ann

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Re: M_Boats: Dinghy for M15
by Wilsometer＠aol.com 21 May '02

21 May '02

In a message dated 5/20/02 5:53:44 AM, IDCLLC(a)aol.com writes: << Scott, I read your dinghy report with interest. I'm a Potter 15 sailor, so I have even less room than you! Furthermore, I often sail with my family of four-that's two adults, a 12 year old and a 9 year old. to promote domestic harmony in such a tiny space, we recently sold our hard dinghy in favor of a windglider (which we haven't tried out yet-it's blackberry winter here in Tennessee). Among other things, this PVC water toy can be a towable. The idea is to give a budding sailor a space of their own. Bear in mind that it would only be used on inland lakes under benign conditions.>> Sounds like fun. I know I would have liked one when I was a kid!! Can't see how you could get into too much trouble in the benign conditions you describe. <<I have three questions: First, what sort of bridle do you use when towing?>> First off, my dinghy (older version) is set up with only one bow/painter eye (the newer Zodiac versions have two--one on either side of the hull down low). I am eventually going to modify mine by adding two, as it allows the dinghy to track better and the bow to plow less. I experimented with different setups, and finally settled on a triangular bridle off the stern of the M15 (attached to the two aft-quarter mooring cleats) with an eye at the apex (about six feet aft of the rudder). Through this, I run the single tow line that can be varied in length (the idea being to keep the boat one full wave length behind the tow boat). Perhaps the greatest discovery was the type of line. Prior to one of my Canada trips, I decided to try the 'Regatta Lite' Polypropylene Braid as my shore tie line (you want something that floats for this purpose). It worked so well that I quickly changed out my towing bridle to this as well. This is not the god-awful slippery yellow 'three strand' type polypropylene that you can never keep a knot in. 'Regatta Lite' actually has the appearance and hand (feel) of regular yacht braid (like Sta-Set or Yale/Portland Yacht braid), but has the advantage of being light in weight, has good stretch, and it floats!! I highly recommend it (see West Marine 2002 Master Catalog, page 962, or search for 'Regatta Lite' on their web site). It isn't cheap, but then little that works is! <<What problems, such as fouled lines, need to be avoided in your experience?>> Once I figured out how to make the bridle, my only concern was keeping the line free of the outboard. With the floating line, I have never had a problem with fouling lines or the prop (though I am still careful backing, etc.). There is a neat trick that keeps the dinghy from overtaking you in rough sees (more appropriate to hard dinghies--inflatables don't tend to do this as much, and there is little consequence if they do). If you install a good sized funnel on the tow line about 1/2 to 1 boat length (depends on the boat type) ahead of the boat being towed (funnel point forward), the funnel will reverse direction as the boat tries to pass it, and it becomes a mini-drogue. It really works! <<Finally, how does towing affect sailing performance?>> We seemed to lose about 1/4-3/4 of a knot when motoring depending on conditions (we have a Honda 2hp--my friend who had a 3.3hp motor and towed a similar Achilles dinghy seemed to be able to maintain hull speed by adding more throttle). Sailing performance seemed to suffer less, especially off the wind. If/when we are really concerned about getting somewhere fast, or if conditions really deteriorate, we can always deflate and stow below. <<Thanks :) Steve Tyree, P-15 #2098 Amy Ann >> Good luck, Scott Grometer M15 #478 'bebe'

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Re: M_Boats: M17 High-Aspect Rudder
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 21 May '02

21 May '02

In a message dated 5/20/02 6:56:27 AM Central Daylight Time, stever(a)mail.saabnet.com writes: > You may not want to know this, but aspect ratio is defined as the area of > the rudder divided by the chord squared. Chord is the width of the rudder, > front to back when centered. Area is the area if you viewed the rudder > from the side. > > Put another way, high aspect rudders are deep and narrow. Low aspect rudders are shallow and fat. Low aspect foils are good at low speeds, whereas high aspect foils shine at higher speeds. The following examples may be useful for visualization, or at least entertaining. Let's compare two birds: A mourning dove and a quail. A dove's wings are long and narrow, a high aspect design. Quail wings are short and fat or low aspect. A mourning dove is faster, right? Well, sort of. In anything more than a sprint, the dove will rule-its top end is much higher. But off the line, a quail with its short, high lift wings will bury a dove, and out turn it. It just depends on what sort of race it is. The goal of both birds, however, is the same: don't get et, albeit under different conditions. Perhaps most importantly, if you start mixing and matching dove and quail parts, you will usually get a mess that doesn't do anything well. An outstanding design integrates and balances all components, something that Montgomeries do very, very well, by all accounts :) One of these days, one of these days, I'll get to experience a Monty firsthand! Steve Tyree, P-15 #2098 (that's a West Wight Potter, another delightful boat)

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Re: M_Boats: M17 High-Aspect Rudder
by Steve R 21 May '02

21 May '02

A high aspect ratio airfoil has less drag and more lift. Think the wings of a sailplane or glider, as compared to a transport. The implications are attention to detail by the designer. Yet another reason why we love Jerry's boats. You may not want to know this, but aspect ratio is defined as the area of the rudder divided by the chord squared. Chord is the width of the rudder, front to back when centered. Area is the area if you viewed the rudder from the side. Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY --- "Honshells" <chonshell(a)ia4u.net> wrote: > >What is a "High-Aspect Rudder"? What are the implications when Jerry says >the M17 has a "High-Aspect Rudder"? Thanks. >

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Re: M_Boats: Dinghy for M15
by Conbert H Benneck 21 May '02

21 May '02

Hi Charless, Ah, the dinghy problem!!!! Let me quickly sketch my experiences and which way I went, and why. This might help you in your thinking and improve your dinghy-ology. Originally with my Tripp-Lentsch 29 I had a 9 foot sailing dinghy. I lived with it for years but........ and it's the buts ..... that get you: there was no way I could put it on deck if the weather deteriorated. It had to be towed. ...and if towed in poor conditions you got spash into the dinghy, which made it heavier and eventually you have to bail out the dinghy to continue. So, I found an old - needed rebuilding - Dyer 7'-9" low freeboard dinghy. Much lighter than the 9 foot dinghy and I could put it on the cabin top, but .......... on anything but a mill pond the low freeboard Dyer, with two people aboard, picked up every wavelet, and don't even think of launches or PWC wakes. So, it solved one problem, but gave us a new and wetter one to deal with. My neighbor had a small AVON inflatable which he sold me for a very nominal sum. Ah Ha, said I, all problems solved: inflatable can live in the forward berths and when needed can be assembled on deck and dropped overboard. ......and you could. No more towing a dink. Hurrah! but......... the inflatable only works if your outboard functions. No outboard, and then you are forced to try and row home, and since Murphy is always involved in this - it is against the wind and tide for at least 1 NM - and raining. Have you ever tried rowing an inflatable with oars that are too short; and a seating position that is all wrong for rowing? T'ain't fun; and since my Evinrude 2 HP was the soul of cantankerousness, with it's high tension wire to the spark plug waving out in the breeze, it refused to run if the humidity was over 20% - moisture on the high tension wire grounded out the spark: no spark - no running: back to rowing again. So,........ I bought the regular high sided Dyer 7'-9" dinghy, because at least if the engine quit - or refused to run - I could row back to the boat again in a boat that really rowed. I could also put it on the cabin top so I didn't have to tow it if weather deteriorated. That became my final combination and I was happy with it. However, the Dyer dinghy went with my Tripp-Lentsch when it was sold. With my MICRO and ComPac16 I needed a dinghy, so I built a Bolger NYMPH. It too, is about 7'-6" long, carries two people easily and is a great rowing machine, but it has to be towed. There is no way you can put the dinghy on an M15 cabin top. The NYMPH is light weight (made of 1/4" lauan plywood - fiberglass covered) and I find it a delightful little rowing machine. I have read articles about using one man inflatables on our size boats, but they are primarily used for getting a very short distance from boat to beach. A situation where you anchor, then tie off the stern to a tree on shore. You rig a sort of clothes line to shore so that one person can go ashore and then the person on board hauls the dinghy back to the boat and goes ashore as well. The dinghy being controlled by the clothesline between boat and shore. If distances to be covered get larger, and the water could get rougher, then something like a hard dinghy (Dyer, NYMPH or similar would be a happier solution than a non rowing inflatable. On the other hand Charless, you have your Suzuki, which is totally enclosed, and runs. If I had had a Suzuki instead of my Evinrude that hated any sort of moisture (how do you avoid moisture when on the water?) I might have been quite happy with the AVON inflatable solution. That's my two cents worth....... Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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Transom ladder
by Charless Fowlkes 20 May '02

20 May '02

Steve, I bought 165037 three rung, over platform, telescoping ladder from West Marine. They matched Defender's price of about $83. I did a little cutting and grinding on the brackets and bolted the ladder vertically against the transom. I added a shock-cord lanyard and tightened the hinges to keep it from falling down accidentally (I hope). I have one of these telescoping ladders on a slightly larger boat. I built a small teak platform on the larger boat. The ladder is a little "springy" but I liked the compact design and the modest price. I will tell you later how it works out. Charless Fowlkes Bozeman, MT

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Re: M_Boats: Transom Ladder
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 20 May '02

20 May '02

Steve, Get a ladder. If it's hot, the ability to jump in and cool off makes all the difference, obvious safety considerations aside. Potter 15s often come with little aluminum three rung ladders that fold up against the transom; ours is so equipped. Advantages: Inexpensive, compact, lightweight and trouble free. Disadvantages: Harder to use than more elaborate models because the bottom rung ends up only about 6" below the surface. This disadvantage isn't a problem for our family, but we are all nimble people. Hope this helps. Looking forward to rendezvousing with you when the opportunity arises. Steve Tyree, P-15 #2098 Amy Ann

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Re: M_Boats: Dinghy for M15
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 20 May '02

20 May '02

Scott, I read your dinghy report with interest. I'm a Potter 15 sailor, so I have even less room than you! Furthermore, I often sail with my family of four-that's two adults, a 12 year old and a 9 year old. to promote domestic harmony in such a tiny space, we recently sold our hard dinghy in favor of a windglider (which we haven't tried out yet-it's blackberry winter here in Tennessee). Among other things, this PVC water toy can be a towable. The idea is to give a budding sailor a space of their own. Bear in mind that it would only be used on inland lakes under benign conditions. I have three questions: First, what sort of bridle do you use when towing? What problems, such as fouled lines, need to be avoided in your experience? Finally, how does towing affect sailing performance? Thanks :) Steve Tyree, P-15 #2098 Amy Ann

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Re: M_Boats: Trailer Hitches
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 20 May '02

20 May '02

We needed a hitch for our new Subaru Outback. After researching online, I went to the local U-haul to get a Draw-tite installed, which is an industry benchmark. In our case, the U-haul dealership was grimy and unprofessional. The installation employee referred to "throwing that hitch on" more than once. Maybe he was just trying to avoid the effort. If so, it worked; we didn't go back. Instead, I ordered a class II hitch (the stoutest available for our car) online, which was delivered to our door at an outstanding price, postage paid. I found the installation package and instructions straightforward and well designed. The most difficult aspect, installing the carrier bolts into the frame blind, was rendered easy due to a clever wire-bolt-fish-tape (my nomenclature!). The only problem came from a slight misalignment from the left to the right side (+1/8"); after conferring with hidden hitche's tech support, it was determined that shimming this space with washers wouldn't compromise the hitch's strength. The hitch's perfomance since then has been outstanding. Good luck! Steve Tyree, P-15 #2098 Amy Ann

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Re: M_Boats: Transom Ladder
by Steve R 20 May '02

20 May '02

Hi Charles, First she says I spend too much money on the boat. Now she says we need a ladder. (I think she is hooked!) What kind did you buy? Anyone else have suggestions? Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY --- "Charless Fowlkes" <cwfowlkes(a)imt.net> wrote: >I am still working on my "new" M15. > >..... > >I added a telescoping, transom ladder. I resist adding stuff to this >pretty little boat but I think the ladder adds safety. >

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