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Re: Cage on Jazz
by Crowmeat Bob 23 Apr '03

23 Apr '03

"You don't need to call it music if the term offends." and I've got this Tudor recording of 'Variations II" that kicks unholy ass. I don't see how anyone could listen to Zorn's 'Classic Guide to Strategy' and not see a direct connection to a Cagey aesthetic. >From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel(a)ichips.intel.com> >To: Herb Levy <herb(a)eskimo.com> >CC: proussel(a)ichips.intel.com, zorn-list(a)mailman.xmission.com >Subject: Re: Cage on Jazz Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 09:21:50 -0700 > > Herb, > >On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 23:49:26 -0500 Herb Levy wrote: > > > > I can understand Patrice not liking Cage's music. Based on your > > comments from the past eight years or so, I'd be surprised if there > > were many pieces by Cage that ever interested you. But, for better or > > for worse, since Cage's death, there's actually been a tremendous > > growth in the number of performances and recordings of Cage's music. > > I get press releases and flyers from new music presenters and > > ensembles from all over the States and a smattering of such from > > other countries & his music is being performed a LOT right now. > > > > It's even true here in Fort Worth, which is entirely NOT a hotbed of > > new music activity. If there were more than 2 concerts of music > > entirely composed after 1945 in any given year, it'd be a miracle. (& > > there's virtually no improvised music here at all.) But among the > > scattered 20th century works that have been performed by the Symphony > > and various resident and touring ensembles in the 3-4 years I've > > lived here, Cage is the second most performed composer (after > > Copland) with 7 performances that I know of. > > > > There are very few prolific composers who were primarily active after > > WWII who have as high a percentage of works for which there are more > > than one recording in print. Even labels dedicated to producing new > > music have to be concerned about sales, so someone's buying these > > things. > >I guess I am more impressed by the general indifference (and when I say >general, I do not mean the people in the street, but the ones who really >love >music and are curious about it) than by the few signs about a possible >raising >interest in Cage. I can't remember any of my friends deeply in love with >experimental music ever saying anything positive about Cage's music (with >exceptions for his early pieces). It's all about anecdotes (the silent >piece), >the scandals (WILLIAM MIX), the weird ideas (CARTRIDGE MUSIC, use of chance >methods), etc. This is in fact a constant with Cage: people who are in his >music >rarely say a word about the music itself and mainly talk about his motives, >or ideas/philosophy. With Cage, the wrapping is the message. The music is >almost an obscene appendix that always fails to meet the level of >expectations >raised by the argumentation. I wonder sometimes why Cage ended up musician; >he could have applied his technique to practically any form of art since it >conveys nothing truly musical. And this is for me the problem: there is >little >(or no) music in Cage's collection of sounds. His motives go against >99.999% >of the music ever produced on Earth. > >I made many Cage tapes over the years. They were asked by friends who were >concerned that they might have missed something (and these are people not >affraid of getting their music on the spicy side). The result was polite >indifference and puzzlement at all the fuss that was made about that music. >But his books keep on being entertaining. > >It is ironic that two of the icons of XXth century music (Cage and Boulez) >might be mainly remembered for anything but their music :-). > > Patrice. > > >_______________________________________________ >zorn-list mailing list >zorn-list(a)mailman.xmission.com >To UNSUBSCRIBE or Change Your Subscription Options, go to the webpage below >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/zorn-list _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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Re: Jazz Guggenheims
by William Crump 23 Apr '03

23 Apr '03

Have they played SF more than once? If you're talking about the show at the Great American Music Hall in 2000, I remember a lot more than 30 people being there. It wasn't wall to wall, but it was pretty well attended. I was there with Chain Gang Supervisor Rizzi ("What we have here is a failure to communicate...") and some friends of his... if he reads the list anymore, maybe he can give an estimated attendance. Best live jazz I've ever seen also. Jeb Bishop played like he had Tabasco dumped down his pants AND his hair was on fire. 2nd place was Masada in Memphis, November '97. William Crump ---------- >From: Chad Stockdale <chads(a)statenet.com> > > mentioning vandermark reminds me of seeing the brotzmann tentet + 2 > playing to about 20-30 people in s.f. and they played like their lives > were at stake. thats still the best jazz show ive ever seen. > >

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Keiji Haino
by Arthur Gadney 23 Apr '03

23 Apr '03

1) Anybody know what the current lineup of Fushitsusha is? I understand they left behind the powertrio noise stuff and put Haino on drums. Is this still going on? 2) Anyone know who to contact concerning booking of shows with Haino? I just saw that he is playing in Europe this summer and know somebody who might be interested in setting something else up for him. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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Downtown Music.Net ver. 2.0
by Peter Gannushkin 23 Apr '03

23 Apr '03

Hello All, After about a month of work and several silent updates (you probably noticed these tiny photos' thumbnails), my Downtown Music web site (http://downtownmusic.net/) was completely revamped. Everything is now new: the design, the back-end engine, the message forum, etc. There is also newsletter subscription for those who want to receive site's news. Freshly introduced Links section is still waiting for your contribution, as only a few people suggested the links which were somehow not in my original list. And, of course, any farther suggestions/bug reports/partnership offers are very welcomed too. As a first treat from the new Image Library of the Downtown Music web site I just posted a bunch of photos from recent New York concerts of Derek Bailey, Matt Shipp, Marc Ribot and others. -- Best regards, Peter Gannushkin URL: http://www.downtownmusic.net/

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Re: Jazz Guggenheims
by Ellery Eskelin 22 Apr '03

22 Apr '03

Herb Levy <herb(a)eskimo.com> wrote: > I'm not sure the grant process is much more brutal than getting club > gigs or record contracts Perhaps, but I see that as no great virtue. > I certainly don't think of it as any kind > of remedy to those situations. It's just another option that's > somewhat more clearly public I don't know...I've always thought that grants were supposed to be a way to recognize artists in a way that the free market does not, at least with any consistency. Maybe I'm wrong on this? > and, because in most instances, the > panel makeup changes periodically, more open to some kinds of > vagaries that I guess you're referring to when you use the word > "lottery." I used the word lottery because once you remove the handful of submissions that clearly don't meet the prerequisite guidelines the rest might as well be chosen out of a hat, regardless of who's on the panel and how often that panel changes. Not that a panel is incapable of rewarding deserving artists, but due more to the fact that there are numerous deserving submissions that will never be funded due to financial limitations. > As I tried to be clear earlier, I don't think any funding option, > whether it's the slightly more business-related model of gigs and > record companies, or some kind of grant application, is going to work > for everyone and for many artists, unfortunately, none of them will > work very well at all. True. > As I also tried to be clear earlier, I don't think it's reasonable to > expect otherwise. It may be the case that everyone has the right to > express themselves, but that doesn't mean that any one else is > obligated to buy a particular self-expression. True again, but rightly or wrongly I think the grant situation is seen as being more altruistic and fair in some way, in counterpoint to the purely free market system. And there are the post grant press releases that come from these organizations taking great pride in having determined who is deserving and the accompanying inference that these are necessarily the best folks to fund. Is this really any different than winning a critics poll? And then there's the cache of prestige associated with them. Of course I don't blame the grant presenters, they're doing the best they can and they should continue to do so. I just wanted to point out that the system of giving out grants is really just as f****ed up from a musician's standpoint as trying to get a gig or record deal, maybe more. Of course, some folks are better at it than others, for reasons usually having little to do with music, as has been covered. However, it's probably good to point out that in jazz and improvised music there are usually some kinds of subsidies supporting whatever the endeavor once you scratch the surface. Festivals often receive corporate support, smaller presenting organizations often receive support from local businesses or regional arts councils, recording labels are frequently supported by more popular divisions of the company in the case of majors or run by someone who can afford to lose money year after year in the case of many independents. Even these grassroots tours throughout the US are often supported by a couple/few enthusiastic and industrious music fans in each town who devote their time, energy and money to producing concerts that would otherwise not happen. If the whole thing were to have to depend completely on the number of butts on the seats...well...you get the picture... ================================= ELLeRY ESKELiN/MiCHELLE VAn NaTTA RaMiChElLeRy/PrImE SoUrCe PrOdUcTiOnS http://home.earthlink.net/~eskelin/ =================================

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Re: John Zorn in Jazz a Vienne 2003
by IOUaLive1＠aol.com 22 Apr '03

22 Apr '03

In a message dated 4/22/2003 4:24:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Pascal.Cortes(a)dstu.univ-montp2.fr writes: > True, that's a beautiful place (Roman theater on the side of the hill with > view to the roofs of the old town and to the Rhone river).... and guess > what ?..... it's my hometown !... > More seriously... it's true that many shows of the Vienne Jazz festival are > > televised on the french TV and broadcasted on the radio. But not all of > them. It always depends on the artist's will. Some musicians do refuse any > recording (audio or video) of the show to be made.... and of course, any > broadcasting of the show. Some musicians even have their staff seriously > hunting all audio or video recording/bootleg that could be made. Live > transmission on giant screens on each side of the scene: fine. Recording : > forbidden. That was clearly the case, for example, of the late Miles Davis > (my brother was working in the video staff at that time and wasn't able to > bring anything back home...). > > Then, what Zorn's attitude is going to be on that topic.... I honestly > don't know. > Anyone here know him well enough to have an idea ? Are we likely to be able > > to get nice Electric Masada video from the Fench TV ???? Very likely. Zorn is a professional musician, and if they are offering up the dough, he'll do it. Theres been numerous other radio and TV broadcasts of his performances, so it's possible. Enjoy the show, in any event....

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Re: Quartet for the End of Time
by Patrice L. Roussel 22 Apr '03

22 Apr '03

On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:37:00 -0700 "serge dautricourt" wrote: > > Any favorite interpretations on this one? or any other pieces by Messiaen > besides Des Canyons Aux Etoiles? thanks, serge I have my favorite, but it is more for nostalgic reasons than anything else. It is on Erato with Guy Deplus on clarinet. I am not even sure that there is a bad version of LE QUATUOR POUR LA FIN DES TEMPS. Besides that, I highly recommend the following two: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** - HOMMAGE A OLIVIER MESSIAEN: Olivier Messiaen 1/ Applause 0:20 2/ Sept Haikai (Messiaen) 21:00 3/ Couleurs De La Cite Celeste (Messiaen) 16:10 4/ Un Vitrail Et Des Oiseaux (Messiaen) 8:20 5/ Oiseaux Exotiques (Messiaen) 14:47 Recorded at the Theatre des Champs-Elysees, Paris on November 26, 1988 Yvonne Loriod: piano; Ensemble Intercontemporain; Pierre Boulez: conductor. 1994 - Montaigne/Auvidis (France), MO 781111 (CD) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** - REVEIL DES OISEAUX/TROIS PETITES LITURGIES: Olivier Messiaen 1/ Reveil Des Oiseaux 2/ Trois Petite Liturgies De La Presence Divine Yvonne Loriod: piano; Jeanne Loriod (5-7): ondes Martenot; Orchestre National de France directed by Kent Nagano. 1996 - Erato (France), 0630-14702-2 (CD) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Also, hard to resist to his wonderful piano duo: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** - VISIONS DE L'AMEN: Olivier Messiaen Maarten Bon: piano; Reinbert de Leeuw: piano. 2002 (?) - Montaigne (France), MO782159 (CD) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ whose haunting beauty never ceases to amaze. Patrice.

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Adachi Tomomi
by Efrén del Valle 22 Apr '03

22 Apr '03

Hi, Among all the Tzadik stuff I got in the mail yesterday, I'd urge you to listen to Adachi Tomomi Royal Chorus' "Yo", which is probably the most hilarious release of the label to date. As the obi says, there's anything from hardcorish tracks to Buddish Chant-like hypnotic pieces, cartoons vocals bordering ridicule, animal onomatopeias, etc... all by a six-piece mixed chorus with a great sense of humor. One of the most absurd, dadaist albums I've listened to in my life. Best, EfrÃ©n del Valle n.p: JZ "Chimeras" (Tzadik) also the "Drury-less" version. Great album. ___________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versiÃ³n GRATIS Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y mÃ¡s... http://messenger.yahoo.es

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Re: John Zorn in Jazz a Vienne 2003
by IOUaLive1＠aol.com 22 Apr '03

22 Apr '03

In a message dated 3/26/2003 5:30:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, boris.campan(a)vnumail.com writes: > yesterday evening was revealed the program of Jazz à Vienne 2003 (Vienn in > France, not in Austria). > > And what a good surprise to see on the 12nd of July : > > > Bill Laswell Material > LineUp : Bill Laswell (b), Ejigayehu "Gigi" Shibabaw (voc), Nils Petter > Molvaer (tp) Henry Threadgrill (s, fl), Amina Claudine Myers (kbs, org), > Hamid Drake (dms,perc), Karsh Kale (dms, tabla), Aiyb Dieng (perc), DJ Disk > (DJ). > > > and > > John Zorn Electric Massada > LineUp : John Zorn (s), Marc Ribot (g), Jamie Saft (kbs),Trevor Dunn (b), > Cyro Baptista (perc), Kenny Wollesen (dms). > > Thats a beautiful place to see a concert.... (as long as its not raining!). And I'm pretty sure every show from that festival is televised, so keep your eyes open.

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Cage on Jazz
by serge dautricourt 22 Apr '03

22 Apr '03

i was listening to "Blowing in from Chicago" by Clifford Jordan and John Gilmore. I was really digging the improv of the two horns, but something kept me from enjoying the music more. I incidentally fell upon this quote by John Cage from the Silence list: http://www.newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/html/1996q1/0104.html ...and realized that it was the incensant steady beat that bothered me about most bop-based jazz, and hip-hop for that matter. i am curius to know what other people on this list thing about Cage's statement. serge _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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