December 2012 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

galaxies in the mist
by Gary Vardon 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

Try looking at astronomy photographs for galaxies that can be seen in background. The famous Hubble photograph of deep space is an example of doing this. Doing this makes one appreciate the infinite size of the universe. Sincerely, Gary Vardon The book DO It Right will help you understand vital ideas leading to your greater success. GO to PublishAmerica.com Consulting For Profit is also available. Learn how to make money as a consultant. Jokes? is a wild and witty look at the world and the mbook Marketing can show you how to make good money selling goods and services. All books are available at PublishAmerica.com

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Weights and Measures
by Michael Wells 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

Jeeps are a lot of fun. I've owned 3, and my biggest repairs were a transmission on one and a clutch on the other. Lots of small things like water pumps, alternators, and a ton of u-joints on my CJ, but my current Cherokee is the cheapest maintenance car in the household right now, and when I get my new(new to me, anyway) CJ in the next year, the pile of possible add ons available could fill my entire house. I love them... -------- Original message -------- From: Kim Hyatt <kimharch(a)cut.net> Date: To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Weights and Measures I feel your pain. And my Snapon boxes are twice as heavy as they need to be, with twice the tools. I've owned two Jeeps but by then I gave up on trying myself to repair much more than replacing broken lamps and wiper blades. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Michael Wells Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 10:38 AM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Weights and Measures Try having a Jeep. I'm used to the star-patterned Torx bits, and actually prefer them, but on my '92 Cherokee I have both SAE AND metric connectors on it. My '77 was at least consistent. Really makes it fun. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Weights and Measures
by Michael Wells 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

Try having a Jeep. I'm used to the star-patterned Torx bits, and actually prefer them, but on my '92 Cherokee I have both SAE AND metric connectors on it. My '77 was at least consistent. Really makes it fun. -------- Original message -------- From: Kim Hyatt <kimharch(a)cut.net> Date: To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Weights and Measures Mind if I chip in? I've worked extensively in both the automotive industry and in the construction industry, arguably the two largest drivers of our economy. As far back as 1976 when I began working in automotive shops there was much confusion in units used. Some bolts were metric sizes and some were SAE, and still are. Every mechanic has to have two sets of wrenches of every type. In construction, only the Corps of Engineers tried (I believe unsuccessfully) to convert to metric. In the automotive industry the change wouldn't be as much an issue, inasmuch as many cars and parts are manufactured overseas using metric units anyway. And once you've tooled-up a plant for metric sizes it isn't a big deal. But in the construction industry the problem is enormous. Imagine the millions of products, specifications and drawing standards that must change. The inertia is staggering. The only progress that I have seen is that standard specifications and manufacturers' data now usually give dimensions, quantities, etc. in both metric and English units. I simply ignore the metric units - NO one I've ever met uses them. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dave Gary Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 7:03 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Weights and Measures My last comment on the subject. It has been enjoyable reading everyone's take on this topic. It reminds me of the quandary (at least for them) that Great Britain faced in not converting to the Gregorian calendar. Finally, convenience trumped tradition.hard to do with the Brits. Hey, maybe in another 100 years or so we Americans will see the light in terms of the benefits of the metric system. I'm not holding my breath, however. Dave _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".

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Weights and Measures
by Dave Gary 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

My last comment on the subject. It has been enjoyable reading everyone’s take on this topic. It reminds me of the quandary (at least for them) that Great Britain faced in not converting to the Gregorian calendar. Finally, convenience trumped tradition…hard to do with the Brits. Hey, maybe in another 100 years or so we Americans will see the light in terms of the benefits of the metric system. I’m not holding my breath, however. Dave

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT, metrics -- was Re: Patrick scores again!
by Michael Wells 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

I think it would be a cheap and successful changeover if it was done 180 degrees from now. Right now we have the numbers listed as SAE first, with metric hidden below like the embarrassing stepchild. Also, everyone defaults to listing things in SAE, rather than metric. Changed the labeling to have the metric measurement first, and part of your job is done. All that is left is to get the companies to start using metrics in their commercials, catalogs and documentation. People will learn it through necessity, and still have a fall-back. -------- Original message -------- From: Scott Catron <zaui(a)yahoo.com> Date: To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT, metrics -- was Re: Patrick scores again! I wouldn't mind going metric, but then I've been through 7 years of post-secondary chemistry classes, and that's all we work with. But I need to know the "normal" units also in my work at a chemical company, because stuff is packaged and sold in containers measured in gallons. Of course, we buy stuff from overseas in 25 kg bags, which we record as 55.115 pounds our inventory system. A couple problems I've noticed with the SAE system is also with cooking - when a recipe calls for ounces of something and you're not sure if it's weight or volume. I've also noticed unit confusion with nutritional information on food labels. Sometime the serving size on the label is stated in different units then what the package is sold as, so it's not clear how many servings are in a package. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".

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Where can I get End of the World Insurance?
by jcarman6＠q.com 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

LMAO. If I can take the million with me to the other side, I'm taking MY Brandt refractor with me too. But I can't fault ya for trying :) I hear tell Pearly Gate Road doesn't have any street lights. In fact, heaven has no light pollution of any kind. Now that will be some viewing. There's also a rumor that Carl Sagan and a few other astronomical illuminaries have formed their own astronomical society, you can be sure I will join and attend all meetings :)

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Patrick Moore
by Daniel Holmes 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

Bummer news this morning... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20657939 Dan -- Sent from an iPad. There should be less mispelings, but more errors.

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT, metrics -- was Re: Patrick scores again!
by Michael Wells 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

It's an issue with my stepsons when they refuse to do something just to be contrary. They get in trouble when they do that. People here did it not because they had good reason, but because of peer pressure from people who didn't know what they were talking about. As for there being "no benefit", try doing some things so simple as cooking, and then make adjustments and start switching from oz. to cups, up to gallons, back down to pints and over to quarts. As for 3 Mile Island, there are plenty of examples of archaic holdovers in location naming that have survived many measurement unit changes. -------- Original message -------- From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> Date: To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT, metrics -- was Re: Patrick scores again! Michael, you seem to think there's something wrong with "the stubborn American factor" -- should we be yielding on things where we don't need to? Should we rename Three Mile Island to Four and Eight-Hundred-Twenty-Eight Thousandths Kilometer Island? I'd be pretty stubborn about that, especially since most Americans would have a lot of hassle and ABSOLUTELY NO ADVANTAGE in switching. You have to have a compelling reason to force such widespread social changes. -- Joe ________________________________ From: Michael Wells <eyeonyouproductions(a)gmail.com> To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT, metrics -- was Re: Patrick scores again! Pure and simple, metrics is a scientific system of measurement, it's not some kind of dirty trick. There is no reason to use SAE except for the stubborn American factor. -------- Original message -------- From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> Date: To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: [Utah-astronomy] OT, metrics -- was Re: Patrick scores again! Yes, of course Patrick is right, I was joking about not knowing what the metric system is; I can even convert metric figures into our own system, usually. But it's time for metric-centrics to realize that they lost that battle long ago. And they lost with good reason, in that it's not native to our country and nobody should try to foist a foreign system onto us. If the rest of the world does it differently, so what? I haven't seen any big loss to our economy because of it. If it's easier to figure out volume using metric, again, so what? I'll happily use fluid ounces instead of mm. My point is, this is a little like the rotten attempts at Indian schools -- which children from reservations were forced to attend -- to make students speak English, which included punishing them for using their own languages. The argument undoubtedly was made that the children couldn't succeed in America if they didn't understand English. It was still a cruel practice and has been pretty much universally contemned. Well, there's not even that argument to be made for metric: we do very well, thank you, without using it.Thanks for letting me blow off steam -- Joe PS: That is a great picture of Pahvant Butte and a fine write-up. I've hiked inside it, and I remember the remains of some huge windmill are there. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Americanized System?
by Michael Wells 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

For 'special situations', such as millions of high school students graduating and then going into any scientific field and having to learn a new measurement system, we wouldn't want to inconvenience anyone. If nothing else, this is actually a system that makes sense. It would also improve a million other non-scientific things, even construction. You even get to (for the most part) throw fractions out the window. It's all decimal at that point. -------- Original message -------- From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> Date: To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Americanized System? For special situations, such as nuclear medicine, it doesn't matter if you use metric units because only specialists would be using it -- it's like a technical language that computer geeks might use. But that ratified application is no excuse to force many, many millions of people to stop using the system that is familiar to them. Yet at one time that indeed was proposed; for a while speed limit signs were in both systems, supposedly the first steps of a change-over. Fortunately, sanity prevailed. Thanks, Joe ________________________________ From: Dave Gary <davegary(a)me.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 11:14 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Americanized System? Joe, If I was to dispense a dose of medronate (used for nuclear medicine skeletal scintigraphy) what would be the activity of the dose in “Americanized” units? The industry standard is mCi (millicuries). The adoption of weights and measures by a culture is a consequence of history. There is no system of “Americanized” units for radiation dose activity or units of radiation exposure. Similarly, our other measurement units are not ours either. They’re British. We borrow here and there and call it our own. We even confuse units within our “own” system…for example, pounds and slugs. It can be bewildering. That’s why I have the handy-dandy units-converting program on my iPod Touch. However, when I work strictly within the metric system I, rarely, need a program for conversions. That’s its appeal. Dave _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".

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Americanized System?
by Dave Gary 08 Dec '12

08 Dec '12

Joe, If I was to dispense a dose of medronate (used for nuclear medicine skeletal scintigraphy) what would be the activity of the dose in “Americanized” units? The industry standard is mCi (millicuries). The adoption of weights and measures by a culture is a consequence of history. There is no system of “Americanized” units for radiation dose activity or units of radiation exposure. Similarly, our other measurement units are not ours either. They’re British. We borrow here and there and call it our own. We even confuse units within our “own” system…for example, pounds and slugs. It can be bewildering. That’s why I have the handy-dandy units-converting program on my iPod Touch. However, when I work strictly within the metric system I, rarely, need a program for conversions. That’s its appeal. Dave

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