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Miles Copeland on ticket prices
by David Lucky 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

I thought this was interesting - an ABC News article from March 03. It includes some quotes from Miles Copeland and some tidbits on ticket prices going up - as we are seeing for Sting shows... Prices of concert tickets are rising faster and higher than those for movies, theater even sporting events. But rock 'n' roll is supposed to be the anti-establishment art form, and maybe that's why so many fans feel aggravated that rock once for the masses is now often for only the rich. ... Is Online Downloading the Culprit? So who's telling the truth? Miles Copeland, owner of Ark 21 Records and former manager of Sting, admits that Sting and other artists have a lot of control over ticket prices. If they seem greedy, Copeland says, it's because they're being ripped off every day not by Clear Channel, but by their fans. "Five years, 10 years, 15 years ago every time you wanted music, you'd go to a record store and you'd have to fork out money to buy records. Well nowadays they say it's just OK to steal," Copeland said. Steal online, that is. Apparently, many of us simply cannot resist the temptation of downloading music from the Internet. But all that free music is not without a price. "The public ought to realize as they're complaining about ticket prices, that they're forcing ticket prices up because stealing music from the artists eliminates that source of income. Recording artists like Sting used to make the majority of their money from just that: recording. Now, they're making 62 percent of their income from touring. "So now the only source of income is tickets," Copeland said, "and basically the public will have to pay the price of that." The Stones Get What They Need and Want It's a big price. Bands like The Who that came of age in the 1960s have left all that peace, love, and flower power behind. Now, mega acts like the Stones, with pyrotechnics and large stage shows, have grown into big corporations with payrolls and overhead. "It's a big fat cow, the entertainment industry, and sometimes it's shameless," says Matthews, who was born in the '60s. Matthews is also having his pocket picked by downloading fans. But he says theft online can't begin to explain the huge price tag attached to the ticket prices of the rock 'n' roll idols he grew up with. "There's an obscenity when you get 200 bucks a ticket," he said. Even Matthews' ticket prices have gone up but only a little to $40 for any seat in the house. And he still makes enough money to be one of last year's top money making tours. "If it costs you 25 bucks, or 30 bucks to put on a show for each person and you charge 40 bucks, that seems like a reasonable profit," Matthews said. We asked Stones tour manager Michael Cohl why Mick Jagger and his boys aren't satisfied with 40 bucks a head. Cohl said it's simply a matter of money. "If they wanted to play for free, wouldn't they just go down to the pub in London and play for free anytime they want? They would like to make money too." Cohl said the Stones want to make money for their hard work, just like everyone else. But the Stones live like royalty when they're offstage, renting out entire hotels where a single room can go for as much as $4,000 a night. ...

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Re: [Police] Ticket prices / downloading/ diminishing chart worthiness
by foxie 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

> another great post, bry! > as for "desert rose": adam duritz of the counting > crows mentioned it on the howard stern show this > morning. when asked how much $$$$ he got for coca > cola > using a counting crows song in an ad, duritz > complained he got very little, saying that > corporations that use music from "established" > artists > now realize- as a result of jaguar using "desert > rose" > - just how important a source of promotion > they/their > respective ad campaigns that use a song can be. > duritz > explained that BND came out, made no waves, sting > licensed song to jaguar, the ads came out, BND > starting selling - as a result, corporate america > starting offering less for music... > > --- "bjacob(a)pop-server.nyc.rr.com" > <bjacob(a)pop-server.nyc.rr.com> wrote: > > Thanks David, for sharing that interesting > article. > > It's been interesting > > to read everyone's opinion on Sting's ticket price > > structure. > > > > I don't think online downloading is the culprit, > as > > the article suggests. > > As I suggested in an earlier post, I think it > comes > > down to > > chart-worthiness. > > > > Jeremy listed acts like The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, > > The Rolling Stones, Paul > > McCartney, etc. as a means of > explaining/apologizing > > for Sting's outrageous > > ticket prices. > > > > Like Sting, NONE of those acts have suddenly won > new > > fans recently through > > their new releases...especially in today's > > mainstream music scene. These > > are acts that are wholly dependent on a core base > of > > longtime fans. To > > generalize, fans that are now older and may have a > > bit more income to spend > > for the sake of nostalgia. Sting is a bit > > different, in that he did have a > > surprise hit in "Desert Rose". But it took some > > hustling: > > > > Ten Summoner's Tales was his last "hit" album, > with > > top 40 singles "Fields > > Of Gold" and "If I Ever Lose My Faith In > You"--songs > > that still manage to > > get radio play today. The corresponding tour > didn't > > require corporate > > sponsorship, tickets were affordable. > > > > Mercury Falling didn't sell so well. Sure, we > > bought it all the day it > > came out, but the general public wasn't > interested. > > The music scene was > > changing and the expected hit singles (and > > corresponding profit) weren't > > happening. Tickets for that tour weren't > expensive > > (and still free of > > corporate sponsorship), so from Sting's > > point-of-view, it must have been a > > financial disaster. > > > > The declining interest continued and Brand New Day > > didn't sell so well > > either. Again, the fans all bought it when it > came > > out. A bit of > > promotional help from Compaq, a few fun TV > > commercials to get the word out. > > Not much happened, except for a surge in ticket > > prices. Then, underground > > crossover success with a club mix of "Desert > Rose". > > Then, increased public > > awareness of that song by using it in a Jaguar > > commercial. Then > > sponsorship left and right. The album didn't > chart > > as highly. None of the > > songs (even "Desert Rose") got as much airplay as > > earlier album singles. > > Again, not because the fans decided to download > > instead of buy the album > > (we all bought it), but because the public wasn't > > interested in the sound. > > Sting just wasn't as relevant as Britney Spears > > (ugh, it really hurt to > > write that sentence!). > > > > So we here we are with Sacred Love. Besides us, > > nobody bought it. It's > > not being played on the radio. The public just > > isn't interested. The > > inclusion of Mary J. Blige on "Whenever I Say Your > > Name" strikes me as a > > strategic attempt to crossover into another market > > (hey, it worked for > > "Desert Rose"). Nothing wrong with that. > > > > Sting has every right to make money, but does he > > have to BLEED his loyal > > fans dry? My issue is the fanclub pricing, the > > suspiciously-handled fanclub > > shows/"auctions", the corporate sponsorship not > > helping the > > still-increasing ticket prices. It has nothing to > > do with downloading. It > > has everything to do with putting out an album > that > > a lot of people didn't > > care about, then taking advantage of the loyal > > supporters that do...the > > ones that made it a point to buy the new album, > live > > DVD, even his > > autobiography on their respective days of release. > > > > Sting isn't the only artist to go down this route, > > but since he's one of my > > favorites (and this is a list intended for > > discussion on Sting), it bothers > > me personally and I feel I should be able to > discuss > > it with fellow fans. > > > > Brian > > > > p.s. The new Seal album is phenomenal and his > tour > > tickets are much > > cheaper ;) > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Police mailing list > > Police(a)mailman.xmission.com > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/police > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

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Ticket prices / downloading/ diminishing chart worthiness
by bjacob＠pop-server.nyc.rr.com 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

Thanks David, for sharing that interesting article. It's been interesting to read everyone's opinion on Sting's ticket price structure. I don't think online downloading is the culprit, as the article suggests. As I suggested in an earlier post, I think it comes down to chart-worthiness. Jeremy listed acts like The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, The Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney, etc. as a means of explaining/apologizing for Sting's outrageous ticket prices. Like Sting, NONE of those acts have suddenly won new fans recently through their new releases...especially in today's mainstream music scene. These are acts that are wholly dependent on a core base of longtime fans. To generalize, fans that are now older and may have a bit more income to spend for the sake of nostalgia. Sting is a bit different, in that he did have a surprise hit in "Desert Rose". But it took some hustling: Ten Summoner's Tales was his last "hit" album, with top 40 singles "Fields Of Gold" and "If I Ever Lose My Faith In You"--songs that still manage to get radio play today. The corresponding tour didn't require corporate sponsorship, tickets were affordable. Mercury Falling didn't sell so well. Sure, we bought it all the day it came out, but the general public wasn't interested. The music scene was changing and the expected hit singles (and corresponding profit) weren't happening. Tickets for that tour weren't expensive (and still free of corporate sponsorship), so from Sting's point-of-view, it must have been a financial disaster. The declining interest continued and Brand New Day didn't sell so well either. Again, the fans all bought it when it came out. A bit of promotional help from Compaq, a few fun TV commercials to get the word out. Not much happened, except for a surge in ticket prices. Then, underground crossover success with a club mix of "Desert Rose". Then, increased public awareness of that song by using it in a Jaguar commercial. Then sponsorship left and right. The album didn't chart as highly. None of the songs (even "Desert Rose") got as much airplay as earlier album singles. Again, not because the fans decided to download instead of buy the album (we all bought it), but because the public wasn't interested in the sound. Sting just wasn't as relevant as Britney Spears (ugh, it really hurt to write that sentence!). So we here we are with Sacred Love. Besides us, nobody bought it. It's not being played on the radio. The public just isn't interested. The inclusion of Mary J. Blige on "Whenever I Say Your Name" strikes me as a strategic attempt to crossover into another market (hey, it worked for "Desert Rose"). Nothing wrong with that. Sting has every right to make money, but does he have to BLEED his loyal fans dry? My issue is the fanclub pricing, the suspiciously-handled fanclub shows/"auctions", the corporate sponsorship not helping the still-increasing ticket prices. It has nothing to do with downloading. It has everything to do with putting out an album that a lot of people didn't care about, then taking advantage of the loyal supporters that do...the ones that made it a point to buy the new album, live DVD, even his autobiography on their respective days of release. Sting isn't the only artist to go down this route, but since he's one of my favorites (and this is a list intended for discussion on Sting), it bothers me personally and I feel I should be able to discuss it with fellow fans. Brian p.s. The new Seal album is phenomenal and his tour tickets are much cheaper ;) -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

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Prices of tickets
by StingUs 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

The UK fans will be happy to know that Sting.com will soon allow fans to order nicely priced tickets for the RAH gigs (much lower than the 175 uk pounds currently charged via various booking agencies - see articles on www.StingUs.net) (Thanks Indian Man) Cheers, StingUs-team www.stingus.net

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Re: [stingus] From Billboard site
by foxie 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

raj right on time with this. seal is great... rich --- Raj Manoharan <raj_manoharan(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > Actually, Seal's one of the most popular, > best-selling musical artists of > all time. Seal I and II were huge hits, with Kiss > from a Rose from the > latter still a radio staple to this day, in addition > to being the main > single and video for Batman Forever. That's his > Every Breath You Take. > > And I don't know how it's doing right now, but Seal > IV debuted at No. 3 on > the Billboard Top 200 (or at least it reached No. > 3). > > Plus, Seal IV is getting a lot of television > advertising time, at least in > America. I've already seen the commercial for it > several times. > > And I think it's fair to say that Seal gives Sting a > good run for his money. > Not to disparage Sting, who I've been a fan of from > his Police days, but I > remember reading a review in which the critic wrote > that Seal does Sting > better than Sting. > > I thought that was an interesting observation. I > wouldn't say one is better > than the other, but they're both very similar in > terms of vocal timbres, > styles and production. And a lot of Seal's music has > a Police sound and > quality to it, most notably Prayer for the Dying > from Seal II, which is the > song that got me into Seal. > > ®@J > > > > truth, not tradition ... freedom, not favoritism > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Sam Kington <sam(a)illuminated.co.uk> > To: Stingus <stingus(a)yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [stingus] From Billboard site > Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:13:31 +0000 > > M.J. Vlasveld wrote: > > > Best Buy has upped the stakes on exclusive > offerings in time for the busy > > holiday season. Billboard has learned exclusively > that Best Buy will > offer an > > exclusive five-song holiday CD beginning the > weekend of Nov. 28. "Sweet > > Tracks" will feature previously unreleased > holiday songs performed by > Sting, > > Jewel, Seal, Coldplay and Chris Botti. > > It says a lot for Sting's power that he got Chris > Botti on this CD. Also, to > a lesser degree, for Seal. I don't think you've have > expected either of > these artists to be on the CD. > > Sam > -- > Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ > > _________________________________________________________________ > From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite > music is always playing > on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month > FREE! > http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, > Epson, Canon or Lexmark > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or > more to the US & Canada. > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/jGKolB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > Unsubscribe: stingus-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

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Great Live Photos
by Josh Corwin 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

Hi everyone. I returned all my family's Holiday gifts and cancelled my car payment and down payment on a house, but can proudly say I am going to the three beacon shows (As of now---may have to dump one show) Anyway, the assault on my wallet still hurts, but I chose to do it... Content is here: http://www.pollstar.com/news/viewphotoarchive.cgi?PhotoID=STING nice live photos...many haven't seen before. Enjoy, Josh

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always the same ol' story
by foxie 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

debates like the one that has raged recently - the topic being ticket prices - always turn out into attacks of one person or another, one "camp" or another. it makes it so hard to be a member of this page - it really does. objectivity and criticism never seem have a home here. more times than not, i get the impression that you are supposed to be a good little flag waver, forget about the police and bow at the ankles whenever sting turns a corner. i cannot do it, i will never do it. i have too much vested in this man - too much time spent listening to his music, too much money spent buying his records and seeing him in concert - to just go happily along when i am unhappy with his product or performance. when great, i will say so; when not so great, i'll point that out too. agreed, ticket prices are out of hand in the usa. they have been for some time. artists, concert promoters, brokers, ticketmaster - they are all to blame for this. all are selfish, all take their respective selfishness out on you and me in their constant attempt to get every drop of blood from the stone. that point made, some artists fight the good fight against this trend, offering low ticket prices at every venue, be it on in new york or idaho. pearl jam and radiohead come to mind. i saw radiohead in madison sqaure garden last month, had tickets just off the floor section. the price? $49.50. granted, the obvious argument is madison square garden is MUCH bigger than the beacon theater, so radiohead can afford this lower price (more tickets to be sold). but i counter with this: radiohead is the biggest band in the world right now, i would argue that they are a more important act than sting. yet they keep prices low. i also saw them in the summer of 2001 play an outdoor locale for the whopping price of $20. they were the biggest band in the world in 2001 also. if they chose to, they could charge just as much as the stones and mccartney. and they'd get it. are we to believe that sting doesn't know that ticket prices are out of hand, that he has no idea what brokers do, the "charges" that ticketmaster ring up? does he not care, thinking that 'well, everyone else is does it, so i am too'? a blinds-eye appears to be turned. it is a damn shame. you spend a lifetime supporting an artist and you never get a break, esp. from the ones that can afford to give you one - and sting is one of those artists. but back to the never-ending theme: what each one of us needs to ask ourselves is this: is this page a place for open debate/discussion on sting and the police OR is it a place for sting fans to gather and reap unyielding, unconditional praise on him? i hope it is the former but, more and more, it seems that it may be the latter... rich __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

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Great, now I have to be a member of Best Buys Club???
by Stingfan222＠aol.com 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

THIS DAY IN MUSSting, Jewel, Coldplay Offer 'Sweet Tracks' Best Buy has upped the stakes on exclusive offerings in time for the busy holiday season. Billboard has learned exclusively that Best Buy will offer an exclusive five-song holiday CD beginning the weekend of Nov. 28. "Sweet Tracks" will feature previously unreleased holiday songs performed by Sting, Jewel, Seal, Coldplay and Chris Botti. Unlike other Best Buy exclusives, "Sweet Tracks" will not be sold to customers. The limited-edition CD -- packaged in a round container resembling a peppermint candy -- will be given away to anyone who is a member of Best Buy's Reward Zone frequent-buyer program. Best Buy will not distribute the CD online; instead, customers will get the CD by showing proof of Reward Zone membership at one of Best Buy's approximately 700 stores in the U.S. and Canada. Best Buy senior VP of entertainment Gary Arnold says, "We wanted to do something special for customers: something that was supportive of music, fun to do and tied in to the holidays." "Sweet Tracks" features Sting's "Bethlehem Down," Jewel's cover of "Blue Christmas," Seal's rendition of the Jimmy Durante song "Make Someone Happy," Coldplay's version of the Pretenders hit "2000 Miles" and Botti's "O Come All Ye Faithful." "We have enjoyed a great partnership with Best Buy," says Sting's manager, Kathy Schenker. "Several years ago, Gary Arnold asked Sting to play Central Park, and it was one of the highlights of Sting's career. When Best Buy asked us to participate in this Christmas record, we were happy to do it." -- Carla Hay, N.Y.

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Death of kamen noted
by Paula Mickevich 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

Michael Kamen (composer, conductor, and arranger) 55 died yesterday morning after years of suffering from MS.

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Re: The complaints...
by Angeline Adams 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

Hi guys, I remember hearing about very high prices in places like America and Australia when the BND tour was going on, and it's only now, when I have some idea of the exchange rates, that I release just how much more you have to pay than we do in the UK. My tickets cost £30 each, which seemed pretty reasonable for a two-hour show (and in response to something mentioned earlier, we got real fire during Desert Rose! :-D). I hope the prices don't go up for this tour. I daresay I would find the money somehow, but I would resent a sudden price hike. As for the "whiners" debate... I don't blame people for complaining as long as they don't do it in a way that insults others. Some of us think that for what we're getting, the prices are a good deal. Some of us think that it's a rip-off. That's opinion for you. The fan club's ticket arrangements do bother me; apart from anything else it doesn't look like it's going to be easy to ensure that people who can't be in the standing areas for health reasons get an actual seat if they use the club's offer of money off for ordering tickets through them (see the official site messageboard). This annoys me a lot, as does other stuff that's been mentioned here, because a big reason it seemed worthwhile paying for membership of the new-fangled version of the club was the fact that we would have special ticket arrangements. It's not like the old version of the club where you had tangible evidence of what you'd be getting; the six magazines per year, the diary etc. People have joined the club with a certain impression of what the special offers would be like, and, be it by accident or by design, availability of tickets hasn't always matched the initial expectation. It seems a bit much also to be charged to use a messageboard. I used to be an admin on such a board, so I have a fair idea of what's involved in terms of time (moderation, posting of announcements) and money commitments. For all I know, some other artists might charge for access to their boards. But we're talking about a case in which we seem to be spending an awful lot of money on uncertainties (yeah, I know nothing's all that certain with touring, but people have been led to believe things which then worked out differently), even though the sponsorship would be expected to keep prices down. Unless of course... things are worse than we thought, and it's only the various sponsors who are preventing club membership costing something like $80 for Premium, and tickets which now cost $150 costing $200? The situation with the bonus tracks is frustrating. I understand that the reason for this is to prevent one country's stock of CDs being sold in another, but why not have a system in place which allows this to happen, while still giving people the chance to get the tracks they want in another way? Instead of paying £3.99 for a single, I'd happily pay £1.00 (which seems standard from what I've seen on the site of Virgin Megastore, which sells individual songs this way) per track (and no I-Pod exclusivity; make it available to those of us with PCs too) downloaded. As I learned by scrutinising the information which came up when I played a recent single in Windows Media Player, it's possible for a downloaded track to come with something called a license, which then prevents the track being played anywhere other than on the computer to which it was downloaded (whether as an MP3 or when burned to a CD). So it wouldn't have to lead to piracy. Kipper: I draw the line at personal attacks, but I don't see why people shouldn't critique the work/influence of him or other members of the band. I love the album, but some people hate it. When people make reasoned explanations for loving or hating it, instead of just throwing out "this sucks/this rules", I don't have a problem. Someone asked why some people still come to the list when they're so annoyed about so much stuff related to Sting: the ticket prices, the album, the band. My guess is that they still come because they still enjoy Sting's earlier work enough to care what he does now. I figure that they came when the album arrived because they hoped it'd match the quality of their favourites from his back catalogue. No-one wants to be disappointed in an album by a favourite artist, and no-one wants to feel let down or taken advantage of by the fan club or concert venues, or Sting himself as a performer. But some of us feel that way about one or more of these things, and we're still interested enough in Sting for it to matter enough to be worth voicing our opinions on. I've seen this same situation play out on a messageboard dedicated to a series of movies which recently got a sequel by a different writing/directing team. A lot of the people who were positive about the sequel and the spin-offs (in comics, books and games for instance) felt that the ones who weren't happy were fault-finding for the sake of fault-finding. But nobody wanted to come out of the movie thinking that they'd wasted their time and money, or that the series had been tarnished by this new addition. They loved the preceding movies so much that they weren't prepared to let problems with the new installment go unremarked. Well, if any of you are still reading this long email, thanks for listening. And one more thing - I can't find any information on when the Inside DVD is coming out in Europe. Is it just that they're delaying it to coincide with Sting beginning to tour there, so that people who enjoy the concerts will go out and buy the DVD? Or are we not going to get it here at all? :-( Angeline _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

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