The interesting thing about the amendments, though, is htat they can be *overturned*, for example, if two-thirds of the senate *and* house of representatives wanted to overturn the First amendment.....! I'm right about this...? (Aren't I?) Just like how prohibition was instituted then repealed a few years later...
Um. No. To amend the Bill of Rights would take a Constitutional amendment which is much more difficult. What you're thinking of is how a bill becomes veto-proof. As a country we are incredibly reluctant to alter the Constitution in any large and apparent manner. States cannot make laws about gun ownership. They always get overturned. You are right about laws concerning carrying guns. Many cities have laws about carrying concealed weapons but this is only applied if said weapon is used or shown. After all, it's concealed. I know that in New Olreans you could walk down the street wearing a holstered side-arm if you wanted. I remember seeing an old man walking a little dog and holding a .357 in his hand. Perfectly legal even if it was scary as shit (he looked WAY too nervous to be allowed to own a pistol). The Black Panthers used to march carrying pump shotguns and it was legal as long as they didn't point them at anyone (then it's assault). I think most states have laws about carrying loaded weapons in the passenger compartment of your vehicle. I think the best solution would be to arm everyone heavily from the age of 8 with a set of required classes on how to use firearms and what they'll do. Then require everyone to carry a loaded weapon at all times. Our society would be so much more peaceful. It's just that everyone would be scared senseless all the time. Institute for Psychic Reform Change your Mind www.psychicreform.com
from "ben's guide to the constitution : for kids" http://bensguide.gpo.gov/9-12/documents/constitution/amend.html To Propose Amendments "Two-thirds of both houses of Congress vote to propose an amendment, OR Two-thirds of the state legislatures ask Congress to call a national convention to propose amendments. This version has not yet been used. To Ratify Amendments Three-fourths of the state legislatures approve it, OR Ratifying conventions in three-fourths of the states approve it. This method was used only once -- to ratify the 21st Amendment (repealing Prohibition)." Well, I wasn't *that* far off was I ? Certainly not enough to warrant an "um, no" from someone. But anyway, it's all academic. No one needs to repeal the First, etc.- the holders of power have an infinitude of ways of liquidating undesirables. There's no need to go through the trouble of smearing someone for what they've said- just destroy them under some other pretext... it's the american way! Oh, and I agree about the handguns for 8 year olds. It gives me a great new idea for an art project: photograph infants with guns (and newborns even). ....What happened to everybody?! --- Alan Evil <alanevil@bellsouth.net> wrote:
The interesting thing about the amendments, though, is htat they can be *overturned*, for example, if two-thirds of the senate *and* house of representatives wanted to overturn the First amendment.....! I'm right about this...? (Aren't I?) Just like how prohibition was instituted then repealed a few years later...
Um. No. To amend the Bill of Rights would take a Constitutional amendment which is much more difficult. What you're thinking of is how a bill becomes veto-proof. As a country we are incredibly reluctant to alter the Constitution in any large and apparent manner.
States cannot make laws about gun ownership. They always get overturned.
===== **********compassionat.net**********
On Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 04:00:26PM -0800, elliott wrote:
Oh, and I agree about the handguns for 8 year olds. It gives me a great new idea for an art project: photograph infants with guns (and newborns even).
http://www.chickenhead.com/features/nrakids/ The NRA's Kooky Kidz Korner -- "The most costly of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind." - H.L. Mencken
Um. No. To amend the Bill of Rights would take a Constitutional amendment which is much more difficult.
wouldn't it have to go up for a nationwide referendum in the states? and, i think, technically amendments don't get repealed: another amendment supercedes them. like, there was one that started Prohibition, and then one that Repealed it...
I think the best solution would be to arm everyone heavily from the age of 8 with a set of required classes on how to use firearms and what they'll do. Then require everyone to carry a loaded weapon at all times. Our society would be so much more peaceful. It's just that everyone would be scared senseless all the time.
ah yes -- the Libertarian Position. i know, let's re-create the Old West, where everyone was armed. that way, we can have Gunfighters and bandit gangs again! remember -- the fact that everyone is armed will NEVER mean that all people are equally efficient at using the weaponry. the lesson that we should learn from watching Westerns and reading about the history fo that era is that mass arming the population will allow the meanest and cruelest to dominate the weaker more efficiently. PJK ===== All the other kids are doing it --> http://www.EvilSponge.org __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
the lesson that we should learn from watching Westerns and reading about the history fo that era is that mass arming the population will allow the meanest and cruelest to dominate the weaker more efficiently. Well no difference there then Ive changed my mind about bush being Hitler I think hes satan now I'll give 20 quid to the first person who kills him I could also set up a bank transfer to the victims family Come on you lot are closer... Otherwise I would have done it myself FUCK THE FBI/BUSH/CUNT/DRM/CHOKING/GAGGING/BASTARD POLITICIANS And fuck the homelands security nazi bill.. ------------------------------------------------------- kdx: blackbanana.dyndns.org ( www.haxial.com ) mail: thrash@btclick.com
This only really effects UK ppl on the list... but... Dear Music Lover , If you care about the future of live music in this country, please take the time to read this message... You may not have heard about this, but the Government is about to try and bring in a ridiculous new law which will make it far, far harder for pubs, clubs, organisations and anyone else for that matter to promote live music. The proposals in Culture, Media and Sport Secretary Kim Howells' new Licensing Bill, published a couple of weeks ago, will mean that soon you will need a licence (cost £100 -£3,000) to perform music of any kind almost anywhere! What's more anyone caught giving an unlicensed performance (and that could even include you and your family singing "Happy Birthday" to your granny at a party in a restaurant!) will be liable for prosecution and a heavy fine or even a jail sentence! Unbelievable, isn't it? If you're as outraged by this as I am, DON'T DELAY! WRITE TO YOUR MP WRITE TO YOUR LOCAL PAPER TELL ALL YOUR FRIENDS SEND THIS MESSAGE TO EVERYONE ON YOUR E-MAIL LIST PLEASE HELP US FIGHT THIS CRAZY PROPOSAL BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- TAX ON ENTERTAINMENT Proposed new law will effect everyone Recently there have been press headlines about the government ' s proposals to abolish the restriction on pub opening hours. At last we will fall in line with just about every other country in the world. Hurrah! But before you cheer too loudly, there is a sting in the tail and a nasty one at that. It lies in the less publicised parts of "The Licensing Bill" currently before Parliament. At the same time as revising the law on pub opening, the Government is proposing to tidy up the situation on entertainment licenses which is riddled with anomalies; but rather than making the situation better, the proposed bill makes it far worse. For a start, all the pubs and clubs that have 'got away' without needing a Public Entertainment Licence in the past because they've never had more than 2 musicians appearing at the same time will need a licence in the future. The two-in-a-bar rule was a long outdated regulation and needlessly restricted live music performance but what it is being replaced with will limit live music still further. Then there are all the other areas of public entertainment. The bill currently before parliament contains provisions that will have a serious impact on all branches of the performing arts, both amateur and professional. All premises in which performing arts activities take place will require a licence from the local authority. No costs have been revealed, but licences will be granted only after inspection by the police, fire authority, health and safety inspectors and consultation with local residents and interest groups, so the cost will be far from nominal. At present a license for a pub can be anywhere between £100 and £3,000 depending on where in the country. Churches, schools, village halls, pubs, restaurants, even private houses will have to be licensed if used for performance events, whether they take place frequently or only occasionally. Performances for members of clubs or for charitable purposes are also subject to this legislation, as are recording studios and premises used for rehearsals. Any performance in unlicensed premises will be a criminal offence, punishable by a large fine and costs, or a prison sentence. Religious gatherings are exempt but here¹s a prime example of the madness of this legislation. 100 people attending a church service and singing hymns with orchestral accompaniment will not require a license. But if the same 100 people go into the same church simply to listen to the orchestra (i.e. a concert) it will require an entertainment license. It really will be a tax on entertainment. Existing legislation relating to law and order, noise nuisance and health and safety makes the licensing of premises specifically for entertainment superfluous. There is no need for new regulations. No other country imposes such restrictions on artistic activities and a leading legal authority has determined that this legislation is incompatible with Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights relating to freedom of expression. Who, then, has been campaigning for these measures? Suspicion must fall on local authorities for whom this legislation will be a big money earner. These organisations have had a significant influence on the committee that formulated the Licensing Bill, while bodies representing arts interests have been refused representation. Recent experience indicates the lengths to which some local authorities go in applying the letter of the law. A landlord was fined £500, with more than £1,500 costs, for allowing four of his regulars to sing OHappy Birthday¹ (without an entertainment license); another was threatened with court action when patrons were seen to be Otapping their feet¹ to, and therefore being Oentertained¹ by, unauthorised music. The new Licensing Bill provides even more opportunities for Ojobsworth¹ interference in harmless activities. The net effect of this new law will be to curtail peoples¹ freedom and drastically reduce the number of small-scale music performances. If you value your freedom to enjoy watching and listening to, or participating in live performance be it music, drama, poetry reading, or any other performance art then you need to voice your concern about this new legislation. Once it becomes law, it will be a difficult and lengthy process to get it changed and the damage to the performance arts could well be permanent. Write to you Member of Parliament, your County and District councillors, and your local paper. Here is a recent interview given by, Tim Aves, to his local newspaper. It throws further light on the madness of this proposed new legislation. MUSICIANS will be utterly horrified when they find out how much the Bill will cramp their style, says blues singer and festival organiser Tim Aves. But the most worrying aspect, he adds, is that many people are unlikely to discover the full implications of the Government proposals until it's too late and they have already passed into law. "It really is hard to credit that a Government which has aligned itself so closely with rock and pop musicians should come up with something that will do so much harm to musicians everywhere," he adds. " You tell other musicians what it is likely to mean and most of them just think you're having them on." Tim, 44, has worked widely as a semi-professional musician for 25 years, first with r'n'b band Automatic Slim and currently with Essex blues outfit The Rockin' Armadillos, with whom he has released two acclaimed CDs and recently recorded a session for BBC Radio 2's Paul Jones R&B Show. He is also one of the organisers of the long-running annual Burnham Festival of Music and the Arts - and in this capacity has been lobbying for some time for a change to the present law. "The current laws are clearly daft," he says. "They were made for an age before amplified music was the norm. Imagine if the roads were still regulated by laws made for horses and carts - that's where we still are with music licensing! "But to continue the analogy, what is being proposed is the equivalent of putting a man with a red flag in front of every car on the M25. It's heavy-handed, overly bureaucratic and proscriptive. If the Bill passes into law, you'll probably need a licence to break wind!" All the Government needs to do, he argues, is to look at the problems associated with live music - noise, electrical safety and overcrowding in venues - and make sure there are proper legal safeguards to deal with these. "The legal framework for these safeguards is already largely there under other laws," he adds. "All the Government has to do is apply a light touch to co-ordinate these safeguards and leave the creative side to its own devices. It's what they do in the USA, continental Europe - even just over the border in Scotland and Ireland - and it works just fine." He is especially concerned that for the first time, musicians will be responsible for making sure the places they play are licensed - with the threat of prosecution hanging over them if they're caught giving an unlicensed performance. "Imagine taking the Salvation Army band to court for playing Christmas carols in the local shopping centre, or prosecuting a family group for singing 'Happy Birthday' at a private party," Tim adds. "Crazy as it seems, both these situations would require a licence, under the proposals. That's how idiotic and petty this thing really is!" And here's an interesting notion... If he's not careful, a certain Mr A Blair, could fall foul of his own law, as he strums his Fender Stratocaster in the privacy of his Downing Street home! Under the Bill, for the first time, rehearsal areas will require a licence - and it's far from clear exactly what, in law, will constitute rehearsal space. And what will be gained by imposing the most restrictive controls in the West upon a grass-roots music scene whose creativity has long been the envy of the world? "It makes me seething mad every time I think about it," Tim adds. "Absolutely nobody will gain - and a hell of a lot of people will lose. The little guy who makes his living playing solo in pubs; school choirs; young bands who need small gigs to hone their performing skills; the huge numbers of working musicians who are the cultural lifeblood of this country - they'll all lose out". "That's why it is VITALLY important that everyone - not just musicians, but everyone who cares about the future of music in Britain - gets in touch with their MP right now and makes a huge fuss about this. Otherwise, the cultural map of this country will be irreparably changed for ever." --------------------------------- With Yahoo! Mail you can get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs
Who said "let the facists have free speech but cut out thier tongues first" Every votes a wasted vote... they always get back in? raddished (almost beyond the original) --------------------------------- With Yahoo! Mail you can get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs
participants (6)
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++ K w u s t++ -
Alan Evil -
elliott -
Jonathan Wakely -
P J Kane -
roger raddish