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Teak motor pads
by dalew 25 Jun '21

25 Jun '21

I need to replace the teak motor pads on the transom of my 1980 M17. Have any of you done this? Did you use anything other than teak? Also, how do you protect the top of the transom where the motor rests? Thanks in Advance, Dale

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New M15 owner in Colorado looking for help
by brittjohns＠msn.com 24 Jun '21

24 Jun '21

I am a beginning sailor in central Colorado and just bought a M15. I'm looking for help learning to rig and sail the boat and wonder if there are experienced Montgomery sailors in the area who might help with advice and instruction. Thanks, Mike Britten 720-561-0771

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e-mail to post to Montgomery Boats
by Mike and Therese Britten-Johnson 24 Jun '21

24 Jun '21

brittjohns(a)msn.com Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

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Refurbishing issues
by Andrei Caldararu 22 Jun '21

22 Jun '21

Hello fellow Monty sailors, my 1987 Montgomery 17 "Seaweed" needs some refurbishing done. The three main things are: -- new halyards-- new sail(s)-- solve an issue with the rudder I already sent an email about the halyards, whether I should use 1/4" or 5/16" line. I hope some of you will reply to that. My sails are the original McKibbin ones that came with the boat almost 35 years ago. I have a main sail (with rope that slides through the boom, so it is not loose-footed), a jib and a 155 genoa. The genoa is in good shape; the jib is ok, though I have had to use sail tape to fix it in a couple of places. The main is the worst; though it has no tears, it is quite baggy so my upwind performance suffers. I will certainly need to replace the main, and possibly the jib too. My question is, who have people used for ordering new sails? And roughly how much would a main and jib cost? I have heard that there are some places in China that do a good job at a lower price, is that an option, or does the quality difference not justify the difference in price? Final question. This summer I decided to moor my boat on Lake Michigan. The place where I've put down the mooring has about 5 feet of water, which usually is plenty for the boat even with the rudder down. My boat has the original one-piece wood rudder, supported on a three-foot-long bronze bar that goes through three pintles. The first few times I left the boat by itself it was without a rudder. But two weeks ago I left the rudder on, lowered, thinking that it had plenty of room. I was wrong: a south wind came while I was away, bringing with it big waves, the boat hobby-horsed and hit the rudder on the rocky bottom. Luckily the rudder itself appears mostly undamaged (it needs a few small fiberglass repairs that I can do). The bronze bar bent, so I'll need a new one, but I think I have found a source for it. The bigger question is what I will do after I fix everything. Putting the rudder in/out every time I sail is not an option -- it is too complicated to do with the boat on the water. Leaving the boat with the rudder in the up position is not ideal either -- the rope holding the rudder up rubs constantly against the rudder (from the wave action) and will probably chafe and break. A kick up rudder from RudderCraft is $700, which I find ridiculously expensive. But I may have to bite the bullet if nothing better comes along. Do people have a good experience with the kick-up rudder? Or are there good ways of holding the rudder up in a way that won't constantly squeak? Any other ideas? Thanks,Andrei. On Monday, June 14, 2021, 02:40:55 PM CDT, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com <montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? (Edward Epifani) 2. Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? (Dave Scobie) 3. Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? (Charlie Fortner) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 15:54:31 +0000 From: Edward Epifani <edepifani(a)hotmail.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Cc: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> Message-ID: <CO1PR10MB4771D21E4D4ADD93423AD1EBB2319(a)CO1PR10MB4771.nam prd10.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Useful article on “Marine How To” site advocating Butyl tape. Especially useful technique of using a cone bevel to increase available sealant directly under fastener. Thanks for all input. Improper sealing obviously can lead to core rot, a mess, if not a boat killer , if neglected. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 13, 2021, at 11:31 PM, John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > > I second, or third, or wherever we're at, the butyl tape. > > The 3M products are also known as "Satan's glue" - for good reason. They have their uses, but for bedding most of what's above waterline on an M17 or M15 or most other boats I've messed with I'd use butyl tape. > > I've re-bedded pretty much everything on my M17 with it in the last few years, and used it for all added hardware. Some of my boat's original hardware had no original bedding, which I found interesting. > And some had been (re-)done by some previous owner with silicone, oh what a PITA to undo! > > The butyl tape will in some applications continue to squeeze out excess over time, which is probably what the other post is referring to. I have had a bit of that. It's easy to just trim off, if you tighten or re-tighten something and notice that squeezing out, which will attract dust & grit if you leave it there. > > Also if you have bedded stuff with butyl in the spring, or the previous fall, and then your boat is out in sun and hot weather in the summer, the additional expansion from additional heat of some parts & pieces may squeeze out a bit more butyl than in the days after you originally installed it. > I have had some of that too, I just trim or scrape away the extra butyl. > > cheers, > John > >> On 6/13/21 3:31 PM, Charlie Fortner wrote: >> Hello Wrinkleboat lovers! >> What's you're favorite material for re-bedding deck hardware? I've used some sort of caulk-like stuff -- can't remember what -- in the past. It was goo in a tube. >> I've seen butyl tape recommended, but never used it. Do you have experience with butyl tape? Does it hold up? >> Are there other bedding materials I should look at? It'd be great if I could re-bed and then immediately go sail. >> Thanks, >> Charlie > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:05:25 -0700 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <CAGjBOA6P3CN9EJzHzmy-EiDGYy27kZ3OxAhmTVBX+8Mm5B4L=Q(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Edward and others following along: Yes it is neglect that kills these boats. The balsa cored deck and transom are not a problem if one rebeds hardware when signs of leaking appear: rust weeping out from under deck fittings, rusty nuts and washers inside the cabin and the obvious dripping water. The lack of a headliner means removing hardware isn't to challenging (non-removable headliners are carpet glued to the inside of boats is just bad design IMO). :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com <<-- new site! On Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 8:54 AM Edward Epifani <edepifani(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > Useful article on “Marine How To” site advocating Butyl tape. Especially > useful technique of using a cone bevel to increase available sealant > directly under fastener. > Thanks for all input. Improper sealing obviously can lead to core rot, a > mess, if not a boat killer , if neglected. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jun 13, 2021, at 11:31 PM, John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > > > > I second, or third, or wherever we're at, the butyl tape. > > > > The 3M products are also known as "Satan's glue" - for good reason. They > have their uses, but for bedding most of what's above waterline on an M17 > or M15 or most other boats I've messed with I'd use butyl tape. > > > > I've re-bedded pretty much everything on my M17 with it in the last few > years, and used it for all added hardware. Some of my boat's original > hardware had no original bedding, which I found interesting. > > And some had been (re-)done by some previous owner with silicone, oh > what a PITA to undo! > > > > The butyl tape will in some applications continue to squeeze out excess > over time, which is probably what the other post is referring to. I have > had a bit of that. It's easy to just trim off, if you tighten or re-tighten > something and notice that squeezing out, which will attract dust & grit if > you leave it there. > > > > Also if you have bedded stuff with butyl in the spring, or the previous > fall, and then your boat is out in sun and hot weather in the summer, the > additional expansion from additional heat of some parts & pieces may > squeeze out a bit more butyl than in the days after you originally > installed it. > > I have had some of that too, I just trim or scrape away the extra butyl. > > > > cheers, > > John > > > >> On 6/13/21 3:31 PM, Charlie Fortner wrote: > >> Hello Wrinkleboat lovers! > >> What's you're favorite material for re-bedding deck hardware? I've used > some sort of caulk-like stuff -- can't remember what -- in the past. It was > goo in a tube. > >> I've seen butyl tape recommended, but never used it. Do you have > experience with butyl tape? Does it hold up? > >> Are there other bedding materials I should look at? It'd be great if I > could re-bed and then immediately go sail. > >> Thanks, > >> Charlie > > > > -- > > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > > -------------------------------------------- > > - Eco-Living - > > Whole Systems Design Services > > People - Place - Learning - Integration > > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > > http://eco-living.net > > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 15:01:28 -0400 From: "Charlie Fortner" <charlie(a)rentrof.net> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <4b9c29fe-5b23-475a-b667-5e238cae76b6(a)www.fastmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, at 21:08, Dave Scobie wrote: > Please don't use silicone nor 3M5200 on the boat. (On a Montgomery/Sage > there is ONE exception to the silicone rule.) No worries about me using silicone. I hate the stuff, both on the boat and in the house. And I've read enough about 5200 to be wary of it. For posterity and my curiosity, what's the one Monty/Sage silicon exception? Charlie ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list -- montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com To unsubscribe send an email to montgomery_boats-leave(a)mailman.xmission.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! ------------------------------ End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 220, Issue 3 ************************************************

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What size halyard line should I use on M-17?
by Andrei Caldararu 21 Jun '21

21 Jun '21

Hello all, my 1987 M-17 came with rope/steel wire halyards when I bought it about 15 years. About 11 years ago I decided to replace the halyards, and I used StaSet 5/16" line going both up and down the mast. Unfortunately I did not replace the masthead blocks (sheaves?) that the old steel cable went through, and over time the halyards became frayed. Now one of them has become unusable. I need to replace the halyards, and was wondering if 5/16" line is not overkill. I was hoping to conduct an unscientific poll: what size halyard line is on your M-17? I was thinking of going down to 1/4" to make the line run smoother through the blocks. Also, does anyone know what size masthead blocks do I need to replace the existing ones that are intended for wire? Is there a good source for these? Thanks,Andrei.

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Tohatsu 5hp 2 stroke -- please help
by Andrei Caldararu 21 Jun '21

21 Jun '21

Hello all, I have been looking for a long time for a replacement for my original Evinrude 4hp which is not in the best of shapes. (The plastic cover broke, the pull rope is looking its age...) My boat is a 1987 M-17 with the original fixed motor mount. I have found someone selling a Mercury/Tohatsu 5hp 2 stroke long shaft motor on craigslist which looks to be in excellent shape. (The style with the built-in fuel tank.) Unfortunately my boat is 250 miles away from here so I cannot do any measurements on it. I would buy this motor in an instant, if I could be sure it would fit my boat. The concerns are whether the shaft is long enough, and if it can be tilted up without hitting the transom. If anyone here on the list either has the original Evinrude motor, or a fixed-mount boat -- could you do the following measurements and send them to me? -- distance from top of mount on the boat to the waterline, or distance from inside the motor mount to the cavitation plate on the motor;-- distance from inside of the fixed mount on boat to transom, or distance from inside the motor mount to the top of the motor. Thanks,Andrei.

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M17 in the WA360
by John Schinnerer 20 Jun '21

20 Jun '21

I see there's a Montgomery 17 in the WA360 race, yahooooo!: https://nwmaritime.org/wa360-teams/ Team Three Times The Dunn ...down near bottom of teams list. Does "My Last Boat VII" belong to anyone here? The team says it's a loaner, and they're using the rowing rig from R2AK's Team Excellent Adventure. Lotsa big boats in this race, 25-30+ foot monohulls. I wanna see them rowing...! cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

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Tape for deck hardware re-bedding?
by Charlie Fortner 14 Jun '21

14 Jun '21

Hello Wrinkleboat lovers! What's you're favorite material for re-bedding deck hardware? I've used some sort of caulk-like stuff -- can't remember what -- in the past. It was goo in a tube. I've seen butyl tape recommended, but never used it. Do you have experience with butyl tape? Does it hold up? Are there other bedding materials I should look at? It'd be great if I could re-bed and then immediately go sail. Thanks, Charlie -- Charlie Fortner M-15 #411 Earth, USA, GA, Atlanta

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Bedding compound
by Jon Barber 13 Jun '21

13 Jun '21

For reinstalling deck hardware after painting I used Gorilla brand "construction adhesive". It is a white caulk like substance. I apply it to parts I want to bed and tighten the fasteners to nearly the finished torque. The next day any ooze out can be tried flush to the hardware. It never sets up hard but remains flexible, doesn't discolor. I'm very happy with the results. The instructions say to clean up with alcohol, but waiting for it to cure then trimming is a better idea. Available at big box stores, Ace Hardware, etc. 10$ a tube. Jon Barber Monty17 Ol'44 On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 5:22 PM <montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or > body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? (Edward Epifani) > 2. Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? (Dave Scobie) > 3. Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? (Charlie Fortner) > 4. Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? (Daniel Rich) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 22:37:57 +0000 > From: Edward Epifani <edepifani(a)hotmail.com> > Subject: M_Boats: Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Message-ID: <CO1PR10MB4771A04B799F423BE3FD7226B2329(a)CO1PR10MB4771.nam > prd10.prod.outlook.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I second the request, about to lift and re-bed > Hardware. > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jun 13, 2021, at 3:32 PM, Charlie Fortner <charlie(a)rentrof.net> > wrote: > > > > Hello Wrinkleboat lovers! > > > > What's you're favorite material for re-bedding deck hardware? I've used > some sort of caulk-like stuff -- can't remember what -- in the past. It was > goo in a tube. > > > > I've seen butyl tape recommended, but never used it. Do you have > experience with butyl tape? Does it hold up? > > > > Are there other bedding materials I should look at? It'd be great if I > could re-bed and then immediately go sail. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Charlie > > -- > > Charlie Fortner > > M-15 #411 > > Earth, USA, GA, Atlanta > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 16:06:56 -0700 > From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> > Subject: M_Boats: Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Message-ID: > <CAGjBOA5p= > wEoKwY7pzRiu5gM+U74mKuQZP-h1LctLoEpM6B3iA(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Charlie: > > I prefer Sikaflex 291 or 3M4000/4200. > > I've used butyl tape in rare circumstances when the hardware being bedded > is chemically incompatible with Sikaflex or 3M. > > I currently have one item bedded with butyl - a Spinlock rope clutch that > will be damaged by 3M or Sikaflex. The butyl keeps the water out ... BUT > ... the problem with the product is it slowly weeps a sticky oily slick > that attracts dirt. Why I don't like the product. Yes it is easy to use > and keeps the water out but is constantly making a mess. > > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M6'8" #650 > :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com > :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com <<-- new > site! > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 3:32 PM Charlie Fortner <charlie(a)rentrof.net> wrote: > > > Hello Wrinkleboat lovers! > > > > What's you're favorite material for re-bedding deck hardware? I've used > > some sort of caulk-like stuff -- can't remember what -- in the past. It > was > > goo in a tube. > > > > I've seen butyl tape recommended, but never used it. Do you have > > experience with butyl tape? Does it hold up? > > > > Are there other bedding materials I should look at? It'd be great if I > > could re-bed and then immediately go sail. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Charlie > > -- > > Charlie Fortner > > M-15 #411 > > Earth, USA, GA, Atlanta > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 19:40:38 -0400 > From: "Charlie Fortner" <charlie(a)rentrof.net> > Subject: M_Boats: Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Message-ID: <7df7bff1-7c4a-40cf-9fb6-20b7c823ca6b(a)www.fastmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, at 19:06, Dave Scobie wrote: > > > I've used butyl tape in rare circumstances when the hardware being bedded > > is chemically incompatible with Sikaflex or 3M. > > Dave - you're a font of wrinkleboat knowledge. Thanks so much! > > Is there a way to know the chemical compatibility? Are there particular > plastics that are definitely incompatible? > > Most of the hardware I'll be over-drilling / epoxying / re-drilling / > re-bedding is some sort of plastic. Most of it is original to my 1988 M-15, > but a I have a couple of more recent Harken cam cleats. > > > Charlie > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 17:21:42 -0700 > From: Daniel Rich <danielgrich(a)gmail.com> > Subject: M_Boats: Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Message-ID: <35FF70F5-055B-4CFA-A325-C49E7366C6A0(a)gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Interesting regarding the butyl tape. I am a big fan actually. I bedded > all the hardware on my SCAMP with it. So easy to use and remove when > required. Like nothing to it. I have not had that oozing problem. > > Daniel > > > On Jun 13, 2021, at 4:41 PM, Charlie Fortner <charlie(a)rentrof.net> > wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, at 19:06, Dave Scobie wrote: > > > >> I've used butyl tape in rare circumstances when the hardware being > bedded > >> is chemically incompatible with Sikaflex or 3M. > > > > Dave - you're a font of wrinkleboat knowledge. Thanks so much! > > > > Is there a way to know the chemical compatibility? Are there particular > plastics that are definitely incompatible? > > > > Most of the hardware I'll be over-drilling / epoxying / re-drilling / > re-bedding is some sort of plastic. Most of it is original to my 1988 M-15, > but a I have a couple of more recent Harken cam cleats. > > > > > > Charlie > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > montgomery_boats mailing list -- montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > To unsubscribe send an email to > montgomery_boats-leave(a)mailman.xmission.com > %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > ------------------------------ > > End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 220, Issue 1 > ************************************************ >

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Small Craft Advisor survey on dinghies/tenders
by John Schinnerer 07 Jun '21

07 Jun '21

SCA is asking small boat sailors to respond to this survey, for use in an upcoming article: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/F96MJXR Kinda timely given the recent thread about this... cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

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