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Barnacles
by Conbert Benneck 01 Aug '14

01 Aug '14

Eons ago, we were heading for Europe, to sail our new Northeast 38 toy, that I had pretty much bought sight-unseen for $15K- fully equipped, in Denmark. The intent was to find out what sort of problems I had bought, fix them / or get them fixed, before planning to sail it back to the States the following year. Our T-L 29 was in the water her normal spot at Fort Rachel Marine at Mystic, CT, and I left our Dyer 7'-9" dinghy tied up alongside the mother ship while we were gone. The Dyer dink didn't have any anti-fouling paint on the bottom. We were gone for about two months. When we were back in Connecticut again, we headed to Mystic to go sailing. After bailing out all the rain water that had collected during our absence, I untied the dinghy, to moor it astern, it felt very sluggish. What gives? I hauled it up on the dock, and was dumbfounded to see the bottom of the dinghy totally covered with a thick layer of barnacles. They had found a new happy home during our absence, and had been fruitful and multiplied.... I spent the next several hours with a paint scraper, laboriously removing the barnacles - large and small - and making a large mess on the dock, before washing them back into the water, for the edification of the sea gulls and cormorants. I was so busy kicking myself for my stupidity, that I didn't think of weighing or measuring the volume of barnacles removed, but I assure you the whole bottom of the dinghy, every square inch of it, was totally cover with barnacles; some as big as a dime. A wild guess on my part would be about 30 lbs of barnacles that I removed. Let me assure you, the little crustaceans hold on the fiberglass bottom was extremely tenacious. My removal efforts were just a tad under using dynamite and blasting, and you could see the little round areas where each had firmly attached itself to the Dyer hull as they were chiseled away. My conclusion: If a boat is moving - as on a cruise - your chances of growing barnacles diminish. They like their quite undisturbed sex, such as I offered with the bottom of our dinghy. A moving boat makes it more difficult for them to attach themselves. Our T-L 29 had anti-fouling paint and we never had a problem with barnacles, other than on the propeller shaft or propeller blades themselves (that were unpainted). A few weeks cruising shouldn't present a barnacle problem, but beware if the boat just sits at a salt water Marina and doesn't move for weeks; and it doesn't have anti-fouling paint on the bottom. Then barnacles will cry "Whoopy, we've found a new home, let the sex orgy start" and you will have a big problem. The next time I was gone for a time, I left the dinghy overturned on the foredeck. One lesson learned was enough for me. Connie

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Welcome
by Thomas Buzzi 01 Aug '14

01 Aug '14

Hello Tom, on the Hudson. I used to live and sail along the coast of Connecticut. Now I sail my M-17, or will soon, off Rockport, Tx. Today I am repairing some gelcoat and will wash and coat the hull with some substance called "NuGlass 2". This week I removed the aluminum rails from the hull to inspect the hull/deck joint. All looks fine and after treating the hull and painting the deck I will reinstall the soon to be repainted aluminum rails. Amazing the amount of dirt that collected beneath those during the last 38 years. Very satisfying to get it all cleaned out and their removal will greatly aid in my getting a good paint job done on the deck. I find puttering around on the boat almost as much fun as sailing in it. Retirement has given me the time to do so. Unfortunately my grandson lives about 1500 miles away. I would love to introduce him to sailing. Welcome aboard, Tom Buzzi, M17, #258, 1977

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Re: M_Boats: saltwater? AIR BORN back in WA?
by Dave Scobie 31 Jul '14

31 Jul '14

Steve: i'll likely not be back to WA until July 2015. -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 3:14 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp(a)q.com> wrote: > Dave, > Thanx. Are you planning to tow Air Born to Olympia for Harbor Days at > the end of August? > There is a power washer at the boat yard at Swantown. > Steve > M-15 # 335 >

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Re: M_Boats: saltwater?
by Dave Scobie 31 Jul '14

31 Jul '14

Steve: My old M15 and the Sage 17 AIR BORN didn't/don't have antifouling bottom paint. neither spent/spend much time in saltwater. the longest my M15 spent was about 10 days. the longest for AIR BORN is 15 days. after this time both boats had slime on the bottom and AIR BORN had one, very small barnacle (hadn't stuck hard, flicked it off with my fingernail). the slime came off easily when taking the boat through a car wash (ie, the you use a power washer wand and 'foaming brush' kind). my M17, SWEET PEA, lived on a buoy in Quartermaster Harbor (Vashon Is.) for about 20 years. she has bottom paint. since i've owned SWEET PEA, she has lived on her trailer excluding times cruising (longest in-water time just over three weeks). if you were to keep a boat, any boat, in the PNW saltwater more than a couple of weeks you need to apply antifouling. it is also best if you apply a barrier coat to the boat before applying anitfouling, if the boat will be in water long-term (more than a couple of months barrier coat is to protect the bottom against blistering, yeah, bottom paint ain't cheap. i bet a M15 would need less than 2Q. a Sage 17 needs just over 2Q. -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 12:05 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp(a)q.com> wrote: > Dave, > I was surprised to read that you have sailed your M-17 on the waters of > Puget Sound. I moved to the South Puget Sound area two years ago and towed > my M-15 along after previously having had it on the fresh and cold water of > Lake Couer D' Alene in > Idaho. I heard admonishment from local boat owners about the damage the > waters of Puget Sound can cause, and upon discovering that hull paint runs > about $ 400 gallon, have taken the approach that scrubbing and rinsing with > fresh water would be a less expensive approach. Have seen your Sage 17 on > its trailer near waters of Puget Sound, but did not observe expensive hull > paint. What do you do regarding protecting your boat from saltwater? > Steve > M-15 # 335 >

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YIKES!
by Thomas Buzzi 27 Jul '14

27 Jul '14

Geez Shaun, What a job! I think it would be worth the cost though. Short of buying a brand new Sage 17 (mucho denaro), rehabbing one of Jerry's original boats is the only way to end up with something worth sailing. I read a report from an Ex- EEG customer and it did not sound very good for the newer (old mold) boats coming out and being called M-17's. "Good on ya" for keeping one of the classics seaworthy. Tom B, M17 #258, 1977

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're: Sean's Efforts
by nebwest2＠aol.com 27 Jul '14

27 Jul '14

Tom, Thanks for the clarification re: opinions. Yep everyone has them. Good straight info is always a good thing. And anyone has the right to share facts where and when and with whomever appropriate, as well as opinions when identified as such. But it really helps to keep in mind the context of a conversation or post and the venue of such and not take it another direction than it is going or intended to go, so as not to be inflammatory on a known sore spot. I have battled this exact issue to exhaustion within the HPPC until I put my foot down and ended it. It will literally suck the life out of an event and polarize an otherwise cohesive group into two camps. Nothing and I truly mean nothing could be more detrimental to our sport. I have seen it first hand. Some just cannot see that. I'm just a participant here , same as you, but one thing I know is that going negative impacts participation. No one likes conflict or feeling awkward. Myself included. That's why I speak up immediately if I see a post I made being replied to and going down that road. Thanks for the clarification and reply. Hopefully you can come on out and join us in Havasu this Feb. If you like Montys, and you obviously do :-), there will be lots of them here ( as well as just about every other make and model you can shake a stick at). Come , join us.... Let's sail. :-) that's where it's at. :-) Sent from my HTC One on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network Sent from my HTC One on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network

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Sean's efforts
by Thomas Buzzi 27 Jul '14

27 Jul '14

OhOh! busted! I should have prefaced my remarks with, " I think, or in my opinion", since that is all they were and all they ever could be. I also identified with the customer who had to take delivery of a badly finished craft as I too had the same experience. Having owned several boats from several different manufacturers the best boat is the one you take out and sail. Fairwinds, Tom B. M17, #258

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Re: M_Boats: YIKES!
by Sean Mulligan 27 Jul '14

27 Jul '14

> Tom, > > Thanks for the congrats on saving #44. It's been a fun (although hectic) project trying to get her ready for the Cruiser Challenge....but we made it. Had a great time sailing her and look forward to bringing her back the rest of the way and many more days on the water. After sailing the T200 in "Scout" the Monty 17 felt HUGE! > > Only because you brought it up....I'm a Monty guy through and through....so buying a brand new Sage for $25 to $30k is not even tempting to me. For my personal tastes it doesn't offer me anything that the M17 doesn't already have. The slight performance advantage it may have getting around a couple of buoys come at costs in other areas. Everything is always a give and take, all boats are a compromise, and everyone has to make their own call on what's good for them. For me....If I can buy a boat for $5k that gives me performance on par with a $30k boat, looks identical, and has a few other features I like....that's where I'm gonna be every time. Again, that's not the definitive answer for everyone, just my opinion (before I get blasted). > > I gotta say, those were a couple of harsh zingers there towards Bob and his boats. Not really what this board is for. I'm not a Bob promoter nor a Jerry promoter, nor a Sage promoter......only relaying my first hand experience. I speak to what I know. Bob did a nice job for me helping me save this boat. Period. I very much appreciate it. With respect to his boats not being up to snuff with the old Monty's? ...well....everyone has their opinion, but I would say this....I have yet to see one of Bob's boats have to have the keel gutted and rebuilt because $ were saved using scrap steel....old Monty's are not perfect either, I've owned 5 and been sailing them for many years.....so there are pluses and minus everywhere. It just depends on how you want to look at the picture I guess. Rather than stoking the fire and pitting one manufacturer against the other, it'd be much more fun to talk about the boats we love and that brought us here and how much we love sailing them. Let's do that. ;-) > > Sent from my iPad

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Re: M_Boats: YIKES!
by Sean Mulligan 27 Jul '14

27 Jul '14

Amen Tom and Della!!!! :-) Sent from my iPad

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Re: M_Boats: Aft skeg for Montgomery 17
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 26 Jul '14

26 Jul '14

Hey Tom, The answer to your question is yes, that horrific split was caused by steel ballast that somehow got wet, rusted, swelled, and expanded so much that it fractured out not only the outside skin of the keel, but it also completely destroyed the centerboard trunk (the pocket that the keel centerboard retracts up into). This was an extreme case. It was so bad that the entire keel was cut completely off the boat, a new one laid up in the original M17 mold, and then it was bonded back into place, completely replacing the keel, ballast, and centerboard trunk. This time lead ballast was used rather than steel to prevent any chance of it happening again. The job was above my pay grade so I took it to Bob at Montgomery Boats and he did the repair for me. Sean M23 "Dauntless" M17 #44 Paradox "Scout"

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