May 2013 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

pickup for towing
by Daniel Rich 09 May '13

09 May '13

Montypals: Gonna pick up a Nissan Leaf EV in a few weeks. As such, I am going to likely sell my Honda Accord. So, I'm thinking it might be nice to have a small pickup truck to tow my M15. Weight of boat and trailer is 1600 pounds. I know because I weighed it twice since I couldn't believe it the first time! So, what would be a good used pickup that would have the capacity to tow this package? Would a used base Tacoma do it? Any thoughts here? Daniel M15 Kestrel

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pickup for towing
by David Grah 08 May '13

08 May '13

For several years I towed my Montgomery 15 with my 1985 Toyota four wheel drive pickup with a 2.2 liter 4 cylinder engine. It did fine except for two things. It was slow at times, which was okay. The bigger thing was on some of the steeper mountain grades, the brakes were a little stressed. I would think those that tow with cars would have experienced similar issues. My "new" 2001 Tacoma four wheel drive with a 3.4 liter six cylinder pulls the boat well and, so far, hasn't been down any grades that has caused its brakes difficulty. David Grah Bishop California Message: 2 Date: Tue, 07 May 2013 13:28:49 -0700 From: Daniel Rich <danielgrich(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: pickup for towing Message-ID: <51896401.2060903(a)gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Montypals: Gonna pick up a Nissan Leaf EV in a few weeks. As such, I am going to likely sell my Honda Accord. So, I'm thinking it might be nice to have a small pickup truck to tow my M15. Weight of boat and trailer is 1600 pounds. I know because I weighed it twice since I couldn't believe it the first time! So, what would be a good used pickup that would have the capacity to tow this package? Would a used base Tacoma do it? Any thoughts here? Daniel M15 Kestrel

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Re: M_Boats: pickup for towing
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 08 May '13

08 May '13

Have towed M-17 with 3.4 V6 Toyota 4Runner 5speed (towed MUCH heavier loads) and currently tow M-17 with 3.4 Tacoma dbl cab - auto - works great. Don't dis the 4 bangers.- ( the Toyota 4 (22R) was used in a 1 ton chassis (dually) and was available as a chassis mounted 22 foot motorhome - over 28 manufacturers!!) see photo for example.- 4 bangers can be quite capable if properly equipped. Braking is always the determining factor - My opinion - but golly - I used to drive a 62 VW bus either towing a C-15 or with my M-10 on a roof rack -just in case - 'slow' doesn't bother me. 40hp in 1 ton truck. Plenty of Rangers available - good trucks (hold their value well too) and they are now collectible as Ford does not offer them in US anymore! Your mileage may very vary- remember ALWAYS wear eye protection............ and write home - they are wondering what's happening. GO In a message dated 5/8/2013 9:31:36 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, stevetrapp(a)q.com writes: Rich, I recommend a lighter truck, such as a Ford Ranger or Toyota of the comparable model with a V-6 for towing the M-15. I have attempted to tow my M-15 with lighter vehicles with 4 cylinders, and also found that although dealers are more than happy to sell towing packages, the lighter vechicles with smaller engines just don't have enough muscle to feel comfortable on highways or hills. My towing involves hills and Interstates, and my Ranger with the V-6 does fine. I think a bigger truck would be more than I need. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Rich" <danielgrich(a)gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 8:44 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: pickup for towing >I have been able to tow my M15 with my Honda Accord. But, the Accord is > only rated to 1000 pounds. It tows the boat with ease, but as I say, my > boat and trailer weigh 1600 pounds. So, it seems to me getting something > rated higher would make some sense, especially since with the Leaf I > don't need another sedan. So a small truck seems like a good idea. What > about a base model Ranger or Tacoma with the small engine? Aren't they > still rated higher for towing? > > Daniel > On 5/7/2013 7:42 PM, George Iemmolo wrote: >> Daniel >> >> I towed my just purchased M15 from Pittsburg, PA to Valparaiso, IN last >> month with my 2006 Volvo S60 no problem >> >> George >> Merry Helen II >> #602 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com >> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Conbert >> Benneck >> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 5:30 PM >> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: pickup for towing >> >> On 07-May-13 4:28 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: >> >> Hi Daniel, >> >> I towed my M15 from Florida, where I bought it, to Connecticut, and then >> all over the place - Lake Champlain, Moosehead Lake, ME, the >> Chesapeake,, Florida, using originally a VW-GTI and later a VW-Jetta >> wagon with a VR6 engine and automatic transmission. >> >> I never had a problem; towing; launching or retrieving the M15. >> >> Connie >> >> M15 #400 LEPPO >>> Montypals: >>> >>> Gonna pick up a Nissan Leaf EV in a few weeks. As such, I am going to >>> likely sell my Honda Accord. So, I'm thinking it might be nice to have >>> a small pickup truck to tow my M15. Weight of boat and trailer is 1600 >>> pounds. I know because I weighed it twice since I couldn't believe it >>> the first time! >>> >>> So, what would be a good used pickup that would have the capacity to >>> tow this package? Would a used base Tacoma do it? Any thoughts here? >>> >>> Daniel >>> M15 Kestrel >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3162/6308 - Release Date: 05/08/13 >

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Re: M_Boats: pickup for towing
by W David Scobie 08 May '13

08 May '13

Steve: i do like my 4L V6. lots of HP and in the last two years towed boats about 45,000 from coast to coast. all of this is with a small camper on the truck. i've attached a picture showing my setup. i no longer own the M15 pictured (photo from June '08). for 'current' status just imagine a M17 or Sage 17 behind the truck. :: Dave Scobie --- On Wed, 5/8/13, stevetrapp <stevetrapp(a)q.com> wrote: > Dave, > Get the V-6, not the smaller 4 cylinder. > The folks who compiled the specs or wrote the advertising > brochures have probably never tried to tow a boat over a > hill or on a highway. > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "W David Scobie" <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 9:40 AM > > > >> ... a base model Ranger or Tacoma with the small > engine? > >> Aren't they still rated higher for towing? > > > > the 'base' ranger with the small 4-cylinder engine > looks like a truck ... but it is really underpowered. > > > > i don't know specifics for the much older trucks. > my 2005 ranger owners manual says that the 2.3L 4-cyclinder > ranger 2-wheel drive, standard cab with a 6' bed can handle > a trailer 1600 lbs. now the BUT the GCWR is > 4800. 7' bed trailer weight 1520 lbs, GCWR 4800. > extended 'super' cab with 6' bed 1420 lbs and GCWR 4800. > > > > go to an automatic and gain an extra 600 lbs of towing > capacity and 700 lbs GCWR. > > > > the 'dry' curb weight for the standard ranger is 3050 > lbs (no passengers, no gas, no cooler of beer). my > bet, as the listed weight is 'stripped' truck, is the real > curb weight is around 3500 lbs and then add your weight + > your stuff. > > > > after showing the numbers i'll say way i said 'no' to > the 'little engined' ranger - > > > > the 2.3L is REALLY REALLY underpowered. when i > worked for Univ. of Minnesota in the mid-90s the department > truck was a late 80s standard ranger with the little > engine. OK for driving around town ... but it had > difficulty keeping highway speed when going into a headwind > or climbing the small Minnesota hills. yes a newer > ranger will have more horsepower ... but not that much > more. > > > > i owned a 3.0L ranger for 11 years. the 3.0L also > also had difficulty going into a Minnesota headwind and > wasn't the best climber (it was a slow drive up the > Cascades, Olympics and Rockies when i moved to Washington > and spent many a weekend and week camping and driving in > these mountains). i towed some utility trailers with > this truck and it was a slug when you attempted to get up to > highway speeds and even slower when climbing hills. > > > > based on the above you will be at the max weight for a > 2.3L ranger. i don't recommend towing at the max > weight for a vehicle. hard on the vehicle's parts and > hard on you as the vehicle is at the max and you will be > working harder to control the load (braking, climbing hills, > going down hills, turns, etc). > > > > ultimately the choice is yours ... just my 2-cents and > comments from the peanut gallery :-) > > > > have no idea on the 'toyo' small truck. last time > i drove one was back in the the 80s (a friend's, not my > truck). > > > > good hunting Daniel. > > > > > > :: Dave Scobie

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Re: M_Boats: M17 renovation questions
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 05 May '13

05 May '13

Cathy, Welcome to the 'fleet' - it appears as though you are a 'hands on' kind of person - Good for you! I have a 1980 M-17 - that has a material at the interior liner/deck joint that appears to a cab-o-sil type filler at the seam - cracked and missing at various locations - Jerry M. once told me if I was a "real" boat guy I would tape the joint and be forever confident in its integrity. Sounded like too much work for me. Jerry will be able to help when he reads the post. As to your v-berth cracking and blistering issue - If the cracks are large and beyond the gelcoat they should be repaired with fiberglass - if they are just 'crazing and blisters you may consider sanding them smooth and coating with 2-3 coats of Interprotect 2000E - it comes in grey and white (barrier coat,) Stan S will hopefully chime in here as he is the man for coatings, repairs & modifications. I have used 2000E on my topsides and almost everywhere else(!) on a boat,car, etc. and had VERY good results. Stan may have an easier/less expensive/better application for this task. My own boat shows minor crazing at the horizontal berth deck and blisters from leaking pulpit fasteners - I will live with the v-berth as is for the time being. This being said - wait a couple of days and see if we can get the pro's to check in on the issue. Congratulations on finding one of the best small boats around! Keep up the good work - I believe you will find your boat a worthy endeavor. Have Fun, Go Sailing GO M-17t #316 "Tiny Purple Fishes" PS +1 on Connie's recommendation for the West Repair book - you may also sign up for the Epoxyworks newsletter for free. http://www.epoxyworks.com/ In a message dated 5/5/2013 6:02:08 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, Csmithsquared(a)aol.com writes: Hello all! My name is Cathy from Atlanta and from these posts and the MSOG site, I'm one of the few east coast owners. I've been reading this forum and the one on the Montgomery site as well as Don Casey's books and Fix it and Sail to learn about my "new" boat. I'm the new owner of the 1977 M17 originally bought by Lionel Babb, and, unfortunately, I can't list my original hull identification number because she has a newly issued number. Perhaps someone knows Lionel or Jerry has records (I hope)... Anyway, Jo Marie (old name-not renamed yet) is in fairly good shape and I took her out twice (in January) before starting to work on rebedding the bow pulpit. This proved to be a little more labor intensive as the core around two of the stanchions was simply gone. Rotten and eaten by ants is my guess as the boat is from Baton Rouge. So while I started to work on that, intending to pace my renovations so I could continue to sail her, one thing led to another and I subsequently removed everything that bolts through, including the locker lids, forward hatch, and port lights. The three coats of interior paint were peeling so I decided this would be a great time to remove and repaint since all the bolts were removed. Not my most fun spring break, but I removed most of the paint and learned a lot about what not to do to the interior. Which brings up my questions. Where the cabin/deck top meet the interior insert there is an off-white colored substance. This originally extended about one half inch over the top of the dimpled interior side wall but had become brittle with age (and maybe paint) and I ended up chipping it off as I removed the paint. I have searched forums and Don Casey's book and can not find out what it is and if I should renew it with a similar product. It seemed plastic-like, but perhaps it was a bead of 4200...Does anyone have any idea what it might be? And with what I can replace it? Another problem is that once I removed the three layers of paint from the v-berth I discovered the gelcoat there is all cracked and blistered. I'm trying to decide what to do about that to restore it. Anybody ever had that? I'm considering covering it with a layer of plastic laminate (Formica) as the cracking is so extensive. If any of you have any ideas about restoring that I welcome your input. That's all for now and I won't be a "lurker" anymore! I look forward to a trip to Lake Havasu in a couple of years. Cathy M17 Jo Marie (for now)

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M17 renovation questions
by Csmithsquared＠aol.com 05 May '13

05 May '13

Hello all! My name is Cathy from Atlanta and from these posts and the MSOG site, I'm one of the few east coast owners. I've been reading this forum and the one on the Montgomery site as well as Don Casey's books and Fix it and Sail to learn about my "new" boat. I'm the new owner of the 1977 M17 originally bought by Lionel Babb, and, unfortunately, I can't list my original hull identification number because she has a newly issued number. Perhaps someone knows Lionel or Jerry has records (I hope)... Anyway, Jo Marie (old name-not renamed yet) is in fairly good shape and I took her out twice (in January) before starting to work on rebedding the bow pulpit. This proved to be a little more labor intensive as the core around two of the stanchions was simply gone. Rotten and eaten by ants is my guess as the boat is from Baton Rouge. So while I started to work on that, intending to pace my renovations so I could continue to sail her, one thing led to another and I subsequently removed everything that bolts through, including the locker lids, forward hatch, and port lights. The three coats of interior paint were peeling so I decided this would be a great time to remove and repaint since all the bolts were removed. Not my most fun spring break, but I removed most of the paint and learned a lot about what not to do to the interior. Which brings up my questions. Where the cabin/deck top meet the interior insert there is an off-white colored substance. This originally extended about one half inch over the top of the dimpled interior side wall but had become brittle with age (and maybe paint) and I ended up chipping it off as I removed the paint. I have searched forums and Don Casey's book and can not find out what it is and if I should renew it with a similar product. It seemed plastic-like, but perhaps it was a bead of 4200...Does anyone have any idea what it might be? And with what I can replace it? Another problem is that once I removed the three layers of paint from the v-berth I discovered the gelcoat there is all cracked and blistered. I'm trying to decide what to do about that to restore it. Anybody ever had that? I'm considering covering it with a layer of plastic laminate (Formica) as the cracking is so extensive. If any of you have any ideas about restoring that I welcome your input. That's all for now and I won't be a "lurker" anymore! I look forward to a trip to Lake Havasu in a couple of years. Cathy M17 Jo Marie (for now)

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Re: M_Boats: Ida rudder
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 03 May '13

03 May '13

Tim's work is spectacular as seen from his 'Samples' - GO In a message dated 5/2/2013 3:49:18 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, northwave(a)telus.net writes: I can attest to the '74 model year having two pintle/gudgeon setup with the forward leading edge ruddder and that it does a great job. However, I'm working at adding the third one with the rod to make a lifting setup. I'll be making a new NACA 0012 foil based upon the inspiration of Kelowna Timtone's. Many years ago I had a a Potter 19 with the folding mahogany rudder but never really cared for it - I'm sure the ida rudder is excellent but beyond my budget here in northern British Columbia.

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Re: M_Boats: Ida rudder
by Bruce Ward 02 May '13

02 May '13

I can attest to the '74 model year having two pintle/gudgeon setup with the forward leading edge ruddder and that it does a great job. However, I'm working at adding the third one with the rod to make a lifting setup. I'll be making a new NACA 0012 foil based upon the inspiration of Kelowna Timtone's. Many years ago I had a a Potter 19 with the folding mahogany rudder but never really cared for it - I'm sure the ida rudder is excellent but beyond my budget here in northern British Columbia.

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Re: M_Boats: Ida rudder
by bownez＠juno.com 02 May '13

02 May '13

Larry, I stand corrected! I wonder if someone added a third to my boat which is hull #92? Bones ____________________________________________________________ New BlackBerry&#174 Z10 Discover the BlackBerry Z10, built to keep you moving. Get it today. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5182676fd037d676f5265st01vuc

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Re: M_Boats: Ida rudder
by bownez＠juno.com 02 May '13

02 May '13

Tom, That's odd, my 1976 M17 has three brackets (pintles?) on the transom. So does Larry Yakes. I thought only 2 were on the very early M17's, circa 1974. Bones ____________________________________________________________ 1 Odd spice that FIGHTS diabetes Can this unusual "super spice" control your blood sugar and fight diabetes&#63 http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5181d8e496cfe58e42877st02vuc

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