April 2012 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets?
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 05 Apr '12

05 Apr '12

I have used alum until they fail, then stainless/monel rivets - and t-gel. Locate the rivet in this picture that fell out seconds after the picture was taken -say the secret woird - win a hundred dollars! GO -popping parts/fittings for fun.

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Re: M_Boats: Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 04 Apr '12

04 Apr '12

Fr. Jeff, No modifications are needed if you have a loose footed sail at the outhaul. Use a short piece of line tied through the clew grommet and around the boom with about one fingers width clearance to allow it to slide fore and aft. Or ask the sailmaker to install (you can do it yourself too) a slug at the clew. GO

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Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot
by Jeffrey Johnston 04 Apr '12

04 Apr '12

As I am ready to order new sails for My Monty 15, I have been reading everything I can about sail configuration for this boat and listening to much advice herein. Many indicate that I should go with a loose footed main (presumably, giving far better sail shape control). However, I have recently read somewhere that it takes some modification/additions to the outhaul to effectively use the loose footed style. I believe the reference was to some sort of block arrangement to give greater purchase when tightening the foot. My rig is the old standard with a track/slot boom for the bolt rope. The outhaul has no block set-up, just a straight pull and tie off line. So, if I choose the loose foot, what mods am I facing to make it all work properly and efficiently ??. I don't race, I cruise, primarily recreational day sailing. I enjoy tweaking a bit more out of any sailboat, but do not care to make extensive mods to my rig if the attached foot arrangement is adequate for my sailing style and the loose foot only adds an imperceptible improvement to performance. What say all of you experts? I thank you all again for any advice offered! *Jeff Johnston+* Molōn labe!

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Outhaul
by Jeffrey Johnston 04 Apr '12

04 Apr '12

Picture attached is of the clew of my main and outhaul. This is on my Monty 15. Does this look like the proper distance for my bolt rope attached main? *Jeff+* Molōn labe!

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Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets?
by W David Scobie 04 Apr '12

04 Apr '12

to share a personal experience - when Sage 17 AIR BORN went to the san juans & gulf islands last june the spinnaker eye was backordered and there was no local source in denver (ie, West Marine in denver didn't have any spinnaker eyes). jerry told me to get an eye when i got to seattle. as i didn't have a pneumatic pop rivit gun to put in stainless rivets jerry said just use alum ... but if the wind comes up the eye will likely pull out of the mast. the eye, attached with alum, was used for two weeks during the san juan cruise and again during the Cruiser Challenge XII. the eye didn't pull out of the mast, though i did (especially at CC XII) use the whisker pole in high-ish wind conditions. when i returned to Golden i checked the spinnaker eye and it was slightly loose as the rivets had 'deformed' from sailing stresses. i drilled out the alum rivets and reinstalled the fitting with stainless. :: Dave Scobie :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.com --- On Wed, 4/4/12, douglas kelch <doug1kelch(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I am curious about Tom's comment on > stainless pop rivets. > > I used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 > years of use, often in > saltwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily > removable and the > resulting larger hole was not useable. > > I switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to > be well in > excess of the need on small boats like ours. > > There does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless > pop rivets. > > Am I wrong here? > > Thanks > > Doug Kelch > M15 G" #310 > "Seas the Day" >

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Spreader Replacement M-17
by Randy 04 Apr '12

04 Apr '12

Thanks for the feedback Jerry and Howard. I have ordered the replacement spreaders and will keep the original "U" bracket mast rigging. I will probably cut down the replacement spreaders (come as 31") to the 24" I currently have. I am not even sure that there would be enough adjustment in my rigging to accommodate the longer spreader length. The West Marine spreader end boots are excessively large. Randy -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 8:25 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 110, Issue 4 Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: CB Pennant (tommyval(a)aol.com) 2. Re: CB Pennant (tommyval(a)aol.com) 3. Re: M-17 Spreader Question (jerry montgomery) 4. Re: CB Pennant (Tom Smith) 5. Re: CB Pennant (tommyval(a)aol.com) 6. Re: Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot (Bill Wickett) 7. Responding to queries on the forum (Karen and Smiley) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 20:09:11 -0400 (EDT) From: tommyval(a)aol.com To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: CB Pennant Message-ID: <8CEE00E4BFB850A-F18-7520(a)Webmail-d115.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Tom Thanks for your reply and yes please send the picture. Yes this was the next to the last boat Jerry built. Thanks again Gary Valetti M17 1993 -----Original Message----- From: Tom Smith <openboatt(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 3, 2012 4:02 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: CB Pennant Gary, I just replaced the CB pennant on my '92 M17, and assuming a '93 s a jerry built boat, replacing the pennant is a very easy matter once you have the boat in the air, that is). Sounds like you've got ll the bases covered. You won't need 7 feet of line, but what the eck, line is cheap. Once you have the CB dropped down (it won't drop all the way down.. a ip at the front of the CB prevents that) you should have not trouble hreading the new pennant down from the cockpit. It's easy to milk the core out of braided line. Make sure the working nd isn't melted closed, and just sort of work the outside cover up rom the end. You'll see the core pretty soon. Pinch it between your ingers and slide the cover up, oh, a foot let's say. Snip off the ore. Now you've got a skinnier end piece that when knotted takes up ess space but is still very strong. If your CB is like mine, and I assume it is, there's a lateral hole ear the upper end of the CB that will contain the stopper knot. The limmed down end of the pennant is fed down a hole in the top of the nd of the CB to that larger space--couple inches or so. Feed the ine in, tie the stopper knot of your choice and bingo, done. If your setup is like mine, you'll need to then tie another stopper on he cockpit end to establish the depth of the CB. My pennant comes up hrough a horn cleat. I tied mine so the hole containing the knot in he CB in up just inside the shoal keel. I can send a pic or to if you like. t On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 12:18 PM, <tommyval(a)aol.com> wrote: While on the subject of CB pennant replacement I am planning on replacing mine his spring and this is the plan, please feel free to correct me or add anything hat I need to do that I might have missed. place boat on blocks so CB can be completly dropped purchase about 7 feet of 5/16 line tape new line to old line and feed it thru decore new line (how is ths done?) attach new line to CB ( I have not done this before so can someone tell me if here is a pin that needs to be knocked out or what the proper way might be) tie in a fiqure 8 knot. be sure CB stopper knot holds the CB so it doesn't rest on the casing Any and all advice is appreciated. Thanks Gary M17 1993 -----Original Message----- From: Tom Smith <openboatt(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 3, 2012 2:43 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: CB Pennant Sorry your question hasn't been addressed, Philip. What year is your 17? A couple important CB configurations over time... On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 11:00 AM, <seable(a)lava.net> wrote: Howzit? I?m close to re-launching my Hawaiian ?barnfind? M17 which sat trailered under a mango tree for 6 years. We much enjoy the O.G. banter and info; but haven?t yet heard an answer to my question about accessing the centerboard/pennant attachment point, (for that matter I haven?t seen a photo or drawing of the CB itself, or with trunk.) Once she?s off the trailer, can I lower the CB and replace the pennant underwater? Conversely, while the aft end of the CB rests on the trailer, can I drift out the pin to drop the front enough for the job? So I?ll be repared, what is the optimum pennant length and material/fastener? I?ve now heard of fixed keel and lifting bulb M17?s. I?ve got a ?91 standard G CB and a gorgeous mahogany plank for a rudder which I hate to turn into a ick-up, until the first time I find a coral head! Thanks for your help! AlooHa! Philipp @ SE?ABLE ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 20:16:28 -0400 (EDT) From: tommyval(a)aol.com To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: CB Pennant Message-ID: <8CEE00F5039F46F-F18-75A1(a)Webmail-d115.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Tod, Thanks for your input, I'm pretty much a klutz but I'm looking forward to trying it and see how I do. With your info and Toms I think I will be ok if not the the good folks at Spring Cove Marina will be called in to save the day. I will let you guys know. Thanks Gary Valetti M17 1993 -----Original Message----- From: Tod <htmills(a)zoominternet.net> To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 3, 2012 4:25 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: CB Pennant Hi, Gary If you have access to a sling for a short while, that would probably be a lot asier than blocking up the boat. I blocked mine up to do it, and it is a fair mount of work. If blocking, time and preparation isn't an issue, but if using a sling, I'm sure t would be best to have everything ready to go to minimize time/cost. ? I'd have a good step ladder handy, preferably at least 5 or 6 feet all. ? I'd have the new pendant ready. Better long than short. I would hink 7? would be good. ? To de-core the tail on double-braid, take a freshly cut end (don't elt or whip it), slide the outer cover back, exposing the core. (it is easy, hink how a Chinese finger-trap gets looser when "compressed"). I would expose aybe 8" or so of core; better a little long than short because you can always rim any extra after threading into place and tying the knot. Then slide the uter braid back down past the core. Tightly wrap the outer braid near it's end ith masking tape and with a sharp knife on a block of wood, trim the end, utting a sliver of the masking tape too. That gives you a nice compact emporary end that won't fray, kind of like the ends of a shoelace. ? Untie the stopper knot(s) in the existing pendant, tape end of new endant to end of old pendant, butt to butt. Tie a stopper knot in the end of he new pendant so it can?t slip all the way through accidently. Arrange on eat so it will (hopefully) feed smoothly down the c/b hole. Probably will end p having to ?help? feed it, though. ? Hoist/block boat. c/b will lower as the boat is lifted. Feed pull/push) pendants through to get to the end of the new pendant. Separate hem, if you were lucky enough they didn?t just pull apart. ? Cut old pendant off. A screwdriver may be helpful to dig the knotted art out (mine was a snug fit!) ? Thread the decored new pendant in and tie the same kind of knot as losely as you can. (IIRC, mine was just an overhand knot rather than a figure ). ? Pull the knot tight, put some drops of epoxy or similar on the knot to elp keep it from accidently untying due to being trimmed so closely. ? Cut the end off close (might add some more epoxy on the cut end) and tuff knot into position. ? Pull the centerboard up and lower the boat. After launching, add the ntermediate stopper knot that prevents the c/b from lowering too far. No pins to pull. Tod > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of > tommyval(a)aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 3:18 PM > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: CB Pennant > > > While on the subject of CB pennant replacement I am planning on > replacing mine this spring and this is the plan, please feel free to > correct me or add anything that I need to do that I might have missed. > > place boat on blocks so CB can be completly dropped purchase about 7 > feet of 5/16 line tape new line to old line and feed it thru decore new > line (how is ths done?) attach new line to CB ( I have not done this > before so can someone tell me if there is a pin that needs to be > knocked out or what the proper way might be) tie in a fiqure 8 knot. > be sure CB stopper knot holds the CB so it doesn't rest on the casing > > Any and all advice is appreciated. > > Thanks > > Gary > M17 1993 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Smith < <mailto:openboatt@gmail.com> openboatt(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > < <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tue, Apr 3, 2012 2:43 pm > Subject: Re: M_Boats: CB Pennant > > > Sorry your question hasn't been addressed, Philip. What year is your > 17? A couple important CB configurations over time... > On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 11:00 AM, < <mailto:seable@lava.net> seable(a)lava.net> rote: > Howzit? > > Im close to re-launching my Hawaiian barnfind M17 which sat trailered > under a mango tree for 6 years. > > We much enjoy the O.G. banter and info; but havent yet heard an > answer to my question about accessing the centerboard/pennant > attachment point, (for that matter I havent seen a photo or drawing of > the CB itself, or with trunk.) > > Once shes off the trailer, can I lower the CB and replace the pennant > underwater? Conversely, while the aft end of the CB rests on the > trailer, can I drift out the pin to drop the front enough for the job? > So Ill be repared, what is the optimum pennant length and > material/fastener? > > Ive now heard of fixed keel and lifting bulb M17s. Ive got a 91 > standard G CB and a gorgeous mahogany plank for a rudder which I hate > to turn into a ick-up, until the first time I find a coral head! > > Thanks for your help! AlooHa! Philipp @ SEABLE > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 17:25:51 -0700 From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-17 Spreader Question Message-ID: <CE4684D449CA4391A5F6E235F554A689@jerryws10> Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type="original" Randy- sounds like you had the originals. The Dwyer fixed would be fibne, but if y0u use them you should radius the base of the mast, concentric with the pin bolt, so that the mast doesn't have to bump over the high spot, putting a strain on thje spreaders. Catalina 22's had a reputation of having spreader bases work hardening and failing for this reason, which is why I did it my way.. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy" <randy(a)caffeibis.com> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 4:24 PM Subject: M_Boats: M-17 Spreader Question > Hi, > I need to replace the spreaders on my 1978 M-17. My current spreaders > are > 24" long and mounted on a rotating SS"U" brackets. Dwyermast has 1" > diameter tubes that are 31" long. Of course I could cut them down to 24" > but would like to know what the original or recommended spreader length > is. > Also, is there any feeling about the mount. Dwyermast has a fixed plug for > sale for the 1" spreader. While the U bracket is convenient for taking > down > and putting up the mast, is there any structural difference. In rough > weather, I have noticed that sometimes the spreaders lose their set. > > Thanks in advance for any perspective. > > Randy Wirth > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 12:05 PM > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 109, Issue 26 > > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. be aware if you have M 15 and are getting a new jib (Flickasf) > 2. Re: be aware if you have M 15 and are getting a new jib > (W David Scobie) > 3. Re: M17 Storm Sails (Judith Blumhorst, DC) > 4. Re: M17 Storm Sails (W David Scobie) > 5. sailplans for Monty 15 (Karen and Smiley) > 6. Sail Measurements Confusion (Jeffrey Johnston) > 7. Re: Sail Measurements Confusion (jerry montgomery) > 8. Re: Sail Measurements Confusion (jerry montgomery) > 9. Re: Sail Measurements Confusion (Jeffrey Johnston) > 10. Re: Sail Measurements Confusion (Judith Blumhorst, DC) > 11. Re: Sail Measurements Confusion (jerry montgomery) > 12. Re: Sail Measurements Confusion (Judith Blumhorst, DC) > 13. Re: Sail Measurements Confusion (Judith Blumhorst, DC) > 14. Fw: Sail Measurements Confusion (Judith Blumhorst, DC) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 21:56:24 -0400 (EDT) > From: Flickasf <flickasf(a)aol.com> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: be aware if you have M 15 and are getting a new jib > Message-ID: <8CEDC2F7275A8EF-11C0-2034(a)webmail-d062.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Note: if you are getting a new jib made for a M 15 be aware that the > forestays on the earlier boats, perhaps all of Jerry's, have a slightly > shorter forestay. I had Pettison make one for me using the measurements > from Bob's new 15's (I ordered the sail in 2010) and it had to be > shortened. > > > Bert Felton > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:10:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: be aware if you have M 15 and are getting a new > jib > Message-ID: > <1333073404.98009.YahooMailClassic(a)web162701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > do as Bert says, there are differences between the rigs over the years and > possibly from a modification from a prior owners. the Glessers had Bert's > experience with they purchased a new set of sails for their M15. > > measure your current set of sails to 'get an idea' of the 'ballpark > numbers'. not 100% perfect because your old sails are likely stretched. > > it is best to get rig measurements from the boat when she is rigged. > > > :: Dave Scobie > :: Sage Marine > > --- On Thu, 3/29/12, Flickasf <flickasf(a)aol.com> wrote: >> >> Note:? if you are getting a new >> jib made for a M 15 be aware that the forestays on the earlier boats, >> perhaps all of Jerry's, have a slightly shorter forestay.? I had >> Pettison make one for me using the measurements from Bob's new 15's (I >> ordered the sail in >> 2010) and it had to be shortened. >> >> >> Bert Felton >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:17:21 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 Storm Sails > Message-ID: > <1333073841.23507.YahooMailNeo(a)web5707.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Nope.? The 128% goes on the M15, > Jerry's rig dimensions and sailplan works out to 151 square feet with a > (theoretical) 100% jib.? His plans for the M17 show: > > 170% with a luff of 22.42 (about 95-ish percent of max forestay length)? > 150% with a luff of 22.42'? (the luff would have to be a little shorter > for > use on a roller furler.) 109% with a luff of 21.5' > 80% with a luff of 19.25' > 60% with a luff of 12' > > However, Bob Eeg has given me slightly different dimensions for his M17 > rig > so the sails are dimensioned ever so slightly differently.?? Bob's changes > to the rig works means it pencils out at 148 sf.? ? The most significant > difference is that his OEM 109% jibs are about a foot shorter on the > luff.? > > > Judy Blumhorst > Hyde Sails of Northern California > www.judybsails.com?? > judy(a)judybsails.com > > > cell: 925.208.1692 > fax: 925.820.2327 > skype: judith.blumhorst > www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica > ? > > > > ________________________________ > From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 5:43 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 Storm Sails > > Is the storm jib the 80%? And the "working jib" the 128%? > > Jeff > On Mar 29, 2012 6:33 PM, "jerry montgomery" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > wrote: > >> Joe- the storm jib is on the sailplan, which Harry and judy have.? >> It's pretty small but works great.? You can sail upwind with the storm >> jib and a single-reefed main in a 25 knot wind and point hi and go like > crazy. >> >> jerry >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Murphy" >> <seagray(a)embarqmail.com> >> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.** >> xmission.com <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>> >> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 1:58 PM >> Subject: M_Boats: M17 Storm Sails >> >> >> Does anyone have a storm sail? If so, where did you get it and how >>much did you pay for it? How do you fly it? Do you have a separate >>track? Boy, that sounds pretty nosey of me. >> Thanks >> Joe >> SeaFrog >>? ----- Original Message -----? From: W David Scobie ? To: For and >>about Montgomery Sailboats ? Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 4:23 PM ? >>Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Foresail Size?? >> >> >>? the jib currently made by Elliot/Pattison Sailmakers for the M15 is >>128%. >> get a jib the size that E/P is now making. >> >>? for your quoted wind speeds, as you stated, a second reef point is >>nice insurance.? in my opinion (IMO) you should tuck in a second reef >>when the wind goes about 17/18 knots on the M15.? once the wind gets >>above the low-ish 20s you need a smaller jib. >> >> >>? :: Dave Scobie >>? :: former M15 owner - >>www.freewebs.com/m15-named-**scred<http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-sc >>red> ? :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com ? :: Sage Marine - >>www.sagemarine.com >> >>? --- On Thu, 3/29/12, Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>? > >>? > If I'm to order new main and jib for ? > my Monty 15 (which I'm >>likely to do ? > soon): >>? > >>? > What size range (100%, 110%, 120%, etc) jib makes the most ? > >>sense. I believe ? > the boat came standard with a 100%. I can only >>afford one ? > jib at present. >>? > >>? > My sailing will be primarily near shore Great Lakes (Lake ? > >>Huron, Tawas Bay, ? > North Channel, Georgian Bay) and smaller inland >>lakes. I'm ? > guessing my ? > winds typically to be 5-18 MPH. My main >>will have two ? > reefs. >>? > >>? > Thanks for any and all advice. >>? > >>? > >>? > *Jeff+* >>? > Mol?n labe! >>? > >> >> >> >> -- >> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >> We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. >> SPAMfighter has removed 6334 of my spam emails to date. >> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >> >> The Professional version does not have this message >> >> >> >> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:24:10 -0700 (PDT) > From: W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 Storm Sails > Message-ID: > <1333077850.42625.YahooMailClassic(a)web162703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > first time i read judy's post i got confused for a second and thought ... > WOW that reads like a lot of sail on an M15.? a second reading i saw that > there is a 'boat being discussed' change between the first and second > paragraphs. > > i use the word 'about' as each loft will cut the sail just a bit > differently. > > M15 has about 122 sq.ft. of sail in the 'working' configuration (full main > and 128% jib). > > a jerry M17 has about 151 sq.ft. based on judy's report (or 154 sq ft on > jerry's brochure) in 'working' configuration (full main and 100% jib) > > remember that the M15 is really 'powered' by the main.? put two reefs in > the > main before going to a storm jib.? don't luff the main on the M15 ... she > doesn't handle this well because of her lack of a backstay. > > it is no fun doing a headsail change on an M15 when the seas and wind have > increased.? keep in mind before leaving the dock and you 'think' you may > need the storm jib.? best to go out and change to a larger jib in seas and > wind that are decreasing. > > the M15 will sail well with a double reefed main and a 128% jib just above > 20kts of wind.? in my opinion the M15 will not sail well to weather under > jib or main alone ... you need both sails pulling! > > > :: Dave Scobie > :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com > :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.com > > > --- On Thu, 3/29/12, Judith Blumhorst, DC <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> wrote: >> >> Nope.? The 128% goes on the M15, >> Jerry's rig dimensions and sailplan works out to 151 square feet with >> a (theoretical) 100% jib.? His plans for the M17 >> show: >> >> 170% with a luff of 22.42 (about 95-ish percent of max forestay >> length)? >> 150% with a luff of 22.42'? (the luff would have to be a little >> shorter for use on a roller furler.) 109% with a luff of 21.5' >> 80% with a luff of 19.25' >> 60% with a luff of 12' >> >> However, Bob Eeg has given me slightly different dimensions for his >> M17 rig so the sails are dimensioned ever so slightly differently.?? >> Bob's changes to the rig works means it pencils out at 148 sf.? ? The >> most significant difference is that his OEM 109% jibs are about a foot >> shorter on the luff.? >> >> >> Judy Blumhorst >> Hyde Sails of Northern California >> www.judybsails.com?? >> judy(a)judybsails.com >> >> >> cell: 925.208.1692 >> fax: 925.820.2327 >> skype: judith.blumhorst >> www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica >> ? >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >>? From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> >> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 5:43 PM ? >> Is the storm jib the 80%? And the "working jib" the 128%? >> >> Jeff >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:10:11 -0400 > From: "Karen and Smiley" <magoo252(a)comcast.net> > To: "Montgomery Sailboat Forum" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: M_Boats: sailplans for Monty 15 > Message-ID: <001301cd0e65$aecbf3e0$0c63dba0$@net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Last year after my used purchase of M 15 #616 I sent my old sails to Dr > Judy > B and she measured them, she made me a new set of Hyde sails which are > just > superb. For insurance sake I went ahead and bought a new Potter 15 jib to > use as insurance as a storm jib. I had done something similar for my > Precision 21 and probably used that storm jib twice if my memory serves me > right so the storm jib to me was plan B and nothing else. Got two reef > points on the main sail. Judy B knows her stuff and she'd get my vote as > the > new old kid on the block cutting sails for Monties. New crisp well cut > sails > make any sailboat hummmm, I won't sail without a good well made suit of > canvas..thanks Judy B J > > > > Smiley, Another Wrinkle M15 #616 > > magoo252(a)comcast.net > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 07:48:37 -0500 > From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > Message-ID: > <CAFS5qAtz1qLdti2CqZP7aTqRc7P8yx+DLaYfXoBFgy=-DkNK6g(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I am attempting to measure my M15 to determine if it is "standard" sail > measurements or not. > > I already have determined that it is a bit different than some > specifications given for mast length: my mast length appears to be 19'2" > (Hull 176 - 1981). > > My confusion lies in the "I" measurement. Some measuring guides tell me to > measure from the jib halyard block down to the deck (the cabin top). > Another says to measure down to the deck sheer line (as if there were no > cabin). Not sure how one would get that number in an attempt to > guesstimate > where that sheer line would be on our 15's. > > Which of these is the correct "I" measurement for a sail loft when having > sails made? > > Jeff > > PS - It appears that I may never run out of questions for this group. > Thankful that this group is so patient and helpful. > > *Jeff+* > Mol?n labe! > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 07:59:57 -0700 > From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > Message-ID: <769CCC23E5414C189BB2351A71C8919E@jerryws10> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; > reply-type=original > > Actually, it goes down to the extended deck line, not the sheer. You > pretty > much need a sailplan drawing to do it accurately, because you need to > project the deck line aft, on the centerline, ignoring the house, to the > point where the extended front edge of the mast would intersect with it. > You use the same imaginary point for calculating the J. > > When you measured the mast, you didn't include the masthead, did you? It > should be 10' even; I just doublechecked the sailplan. #176 would be one > of > the boats that I made, and I used to buy the masts directly from the > extruder, 1000 lbs at a time, cut to length. If it's longer than that, > its > got to be an aftermarket mast. > > I told someone incorrectly, a while back, that the mast was 19'6", but > that > was the M-12 I was thinking of. Hope this helps. > > If you have decided on a sailmaker, I understand that he/she can get a > sailplan off the internet. If not, have them email me. > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:48 AM > Subject: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > > > I am attempting to measure my M15 to determine if it is "standard" sail > measurements or not. > > I already have determined that it is a bit different than some > specifications given for mast length: my mast length appears to be 19'2" > (Hull 176 - 1981). > > My confusion lies in the "I" measurement. Some measuring guides tell me to > measure from the jib halyard block down to the deck (the cabin top). > Another says to measure down to the deck sheer line (as if there were no > cabin). Not sure how one would get that number in an attempt to > guesstimate > where that sheer line would be on our 15's. > > Which of these is the correct "I" measurement for a sail loft when having > sails made? > > Jeff > > PS - It appears that I may never run out of questions for this group. > Thankful that this group is so patient and helpful. > > *Jeff+* > Mol?n labe! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 08:36:47 -0700 > From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > Message-ID: <ED456B1D813344BABEAE5D6AC90C9751@jerryws10> > Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="utf-8"; > reply-type="response" > > Whoops, another typo- the mast should be 19', not 10, unless you really > want > > to go slow. > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 7:59 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > > >> Actually, it goes down to the extended deck line, not the sheer. You >> pretty much need a sailplan drawing to do it accurately, because you need >> to project the deck line aft, on the centerline, ignoring the house, to >> the point where the extended front edge of the mast would intersect with >> it. You use the same imaginary point for calculating the J. >> >> When you measured the mast, you didn't include the masthead, did you? It >> should be 10' even; I just doublechecked the sailplan. #176 would be one >> of the boats that I made, and I used to buy the masts directly from the >> extruder, 1000 lbs at a time, cut to length. If it's longer than that, >> its got to be an aftermarket mast. >> >> I told someone incorrectly, a while back, that the mast was 19'6", but >> that was the M-12 I was thinking of. Hope this helps. >> >> If you have decided on a sailmaker, I understand that he/she can get a >> sailplan off the internet. If not, have them email me. >> >> jerry >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff(a)gmail.com> >> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:48 AM >> Subject: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion >> >> >> I am attempting to measure my M15 to determine if it is "standard" sail >> measurements or not. >> >> I already have determined that it is a bit different than some >> specifications given for mast length: my mast length appears to be 19'2" >> (Hull 176 - 1981). >> >> My confusion lies in the "I" measurement. Some measuring guides tell me >> to >> measure from the jib halyard block down to the deck (the cabin top). >> Another says to measure down to the deck sheer line (as if there were no >> cabin). Not sure how one would get that number in an attempt to >> guesstimate >> where that sheer line would be on our 15's. >> >> Which of these is the correct "I" measurement for a sail loft when having >> sails made? >> >> Jeff >> >> PS - It appears that I may never run out of questions for this group. >> Thankful that this group is so patient and helpful. >> >> *Jeff+* >> Mol?n labe! >> >> >> > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 6335 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 10:56:29 -0500 > From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > Message-ID: > <CAFS5qAviPw-61xZYkevScKumiMoF-nEmd7VPrYdYtb8Om-H6vw(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Jerry, > > You are a treat to have handy! > > Not sure what you mean when you state that: *"You didn't include the > masthead did you? It should be 10' even".* > I measured top to bottom (excluding any windex, etc.) Not sure what you > are > referring to as the "masthead"? > > The specs say that the J should be 15'4". > I get 13'8" down to the cabin top. > > Do you think I'd get the additional 1'8" (to equal 15'4") if we added the > distance down to the extended line. If so, then I'd be right on. > > Many thanks! > > *Jeff+* > Mol?n labe! > > > > * > * > On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 9:59 AM, jerry montgomery > <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org >> wrote: > >> Actually, it goes down to the extended deck line, not the sheer. You >> pretty much need a sailplan drawing to do it accurately, because you need >> to project the deck line aft, on the centerline, ignoring the house, to > the >> point where the extended front edge of the mast would intersect with it. >> You use the same imaginary point for calculating the J. >> >> When you measured the mast, you didn't include the masthead, did you? It >> should be 10' even; I just doublechecked the sailplan. #176 would be one >> of the boats that I made, and I used to buy the masts directly from the >> extruder, 1000 lbs at a time, cut to length. If it's longer than that, > its >> got to be an aftermarket mast. >> >> I told someone incorrectly, a while back, that the mast was 19'6", but >> that was the M-12 I was thinking of. Hope this helps. >> >> If you have decided on a sailmaker, I understand that he/she can get a >> sailplan off the internet. If not, have them email me. >> >> jerry >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff(a)gmail.com> >> To: > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.**xmission.com<montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.c > om> >> > >> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:48 AM >> Subject: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion >> >> >> I am attempting to measure my M15 to determine if it is "standard" sail >> measurements or not. >> >> I already have determined that it is a bit different than some >> specifications given for mast length: my mast length appears to be 19'2" >> (Hull 176 - 1981). >> >> My confusion lies in the "I" measurement. Some measuring guides tell me >> to >> measure from the jib halyard block down to the deck (the cabin top). >> Another says to measure down to the deck sheer line (as if there were no >> cabin). Not sure how one would get that number in an attempt to > guesstimate >> where that sheer line would be on our 15's. >> >> Which of these is the correct "I" measurement for a sail loft when having >> sails made? >> >> Jeff >> >> PS - It appears that I may never run out of questions for this group. >> Thankful that this group is so patient and helpful. >> >> *Jeff+* >> Mol?n labe! >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 10:27:01 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > Message-ID: > <1333214821.24857.YahooMailNeo(a)web5716.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > For those of you who wonder what measurements you need to supply to a sail > maker, there are two answers.? > > If you're looking for a quotation, all you need to supply is the I, J,P > and > E.? If you're off by a couple of inches it won't matter in terms of > price.? > (In terms of design, 3" on the luff is > > Once you have chosen your sailmaker, you need to supply a lot more > measurement.? However, if the sailmaker has made lots of the same sail > before, they may not need all of the measurements.? We usually have a > "stock" design that will fit most boats.?? > > Here are the links to the measurement forms I use.? There are a lot of > measurements that go into the design of the sail, include matching mast > rake, bow shear, location of genoa tracks, etc.? > > > > Headsail measurement form - pdfMainsail measurement form - pdf > > > Headsail measurement form - xlsm > Mainsail measurement form -xlxm > > ? > Judy Blumhorst > Hyde Sails of Northern California > www.judybsails.com?? > judy(a)judybsails.com > > > cell: 925.208.1692 > fax: 925.820.2327 > skype: judith.blumhorst > www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica > ? > > > > ________________________________ > From: jerry montgomery <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 7:59 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > > Actually, it goes down to the extended deck line, not the sheer.? You > pretty > much need a sailplan drawing to do it accurately, because you need to > project the deck line aft, on the centerline, ignoring the house, to the > point where the extended front edge of the mast would intersect with it. > You > use the same imaginary point for calculating the J. > > When you measured the mast, you didn't include the masthead, did you?? It > should be 10' even; I just doublechecked the sailplan.? #176 would be one > of > the boats that I made, and I used to buy the masts directly from the > extruder, 1000 lbs at a time, cut to length.? If it's longer than that, > its > got to be an aftermarket mast. > > I told someone incorrectly, a while back, that the mast was 19'6", but > that > was the M-12 I was thinking of.? Hope this helps. > > If you have decided on a sailmaker, I understand that he/she can get a > sailplan off the internet.? If not, have them email me. > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:48 AM > Subject: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > > > I am attempting to measure my M15 to determine if it is "standard" sail > measurements or not. > > I already have determined that it is a bit different than some > specifications given for mast length: my mast length appears to be 19'2" > (Hull 176 - 1981). > > My confusion lies in the "I" measurement. Some measuring guides tell me to > measure from the jib halyard block down to the deck (the cabin top). > Another says to measure down to the deck sheer line (as if there were no > cabin). Not sure how one would get that number in an attempt to > guesstimate > where that sheer line would be on our 15's. > > Which of these is the correct "I" measurement for a sail loft when having > sails made? > > Jeff > > PS - It appears that I may never run out of questions for this group. > Thankful that this group is so patient and helpful. > > *Jeff+* > Mol?n labe! > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 10:29:15 -0700 > From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > Message-ID: <FBD918D56072429D97CFDF2ADED831CA@jerryws10> > Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="utf-8"; > reply-type="original" > > The masthead is the little casting that goes on the top of the mast! When > we say the mast is 19', we're talking about just the extrusion, which does > n > > ot include the masthead. When I said 10', it was a typo- I meant 19' (do > as I mean, not as I say) Someone famous once said that, but my mind is > having another typo and I can't remember who. I don't think it was me! > I'm > > best known for saying "I may be stupid, but I'm not REAL stupid" > > The addition of 20" seems about right. > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 8:56 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > > > Jerry, > > You are a treat to have handy! > > Not sure what you mean when you state that: *"You didn't include the > masthead did you? It should be 10' even".* > I measured top to bottom (excluding any windex, etc.) Not sure what you > are > referring to as the "masthead"? > > The specs say that the J should be 15'4". > I get 13'8" down to the cabin top. > > Do you think I'd get the additional 1'8" (to equal 15'4") if we added the > distance down to the extended line. If so, then I'd be right on. > > Many thanks! > > *Jeff+* > Mol?n labe! > > > > * > * > On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 9:59 AM, jerry montgomery > <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org >> wrote: > >> Actually, it goes down to the extended deck line, not the sheer. You >> pretty much need a sailplan drawing to do it accurately, because you need >> to project the deck line aft, on the centerline, ignoring the house, to >> the >> point where the extended front edge of the mast would intersect with it. >> You use the same imaginary point for calculating the J. >> >> When you measured the mast, you didn't include the masthead, did you? It >> should be 10' even; I just doublechecked the sailplan. #176 would be one >> of the boats that I made, and I used to buy the masts directly from the >> extruder, 1000 lbs at a time, cut to length. If it's longer than that, >> its >> got to be an aftermarket mast. >> >> I told someone incorrectly, a while back, that the mast was 19'6", but >> that was the M-12 I was thinking of. Hope this helps. >> >> If you have decided on a sailmaker, I understand that he/she can get a >> sailplan off the internet. If not, have them email me. >> >> jerry >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff(a)gmail.com> >> To: >> > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.**xmission.com<montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.c > om> >> > >> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:48 AM >> Subject: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion >> >> >> I am attempting to measure my M15 to determine if it is "standard" sail >> measurements or not. >> >> I already have determined that it is a bit different than some >> specifications given for mast length: my mast length appears to be 19'2" >> (Hull 176 - 1981). >> >> My confusion lies in the "I" measurement. Some measuring guides tell me >> to >> measure from the jib halyard block down to the deck (the cabin top). >> Another says to measure down to the deck sheer line (as if there were no >> cabin). Not sure how one would get that number in an attempt to >> guesstimate >> where that sheer line would be on our 15's. >> >> Which of these is the correct "I" measurement for a sail loft when having >> sails made? >> >> Jeff >> >> PS - It appears that I may never run out of questions for this group. >> Thankful that this group is so patient and helpful. >> >> *Jeff+* >> Mol?n labe! >> >> >> > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 6335 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 10:30:35 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> > To: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com>, For and about > Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > Message-ID: > <1333215035.51433.YahooMailNeo(a)web5717.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Those links to measurement instruction got stripped by the mailserver.? > Here > they are again, in cut and paste form: > > ftp://Jb1umh0rst@ftp.judybsails.com/Jb1umh0rst/vspfiles/knowlegebase/measure > mentforms/HydeNorcal-Genoa-Measurement-v120332.pdf > > ftp://Jb1umh0rst@ftp.judybsails.com/Jb1umh0rst/vspfiles/knowlegebase/measure > mentforms/HydeNorcal-Genoa-Measurement-v120332.xlsm > > > ftp://Jb1umh0rst@ftp.judybsails.com/Jb1umh0rst/vspfiles/knowlegebase/measure > mentforms/HydeNorcal-Mainsail-Measurement-V20111113.pdf > > > ftp://Jb1umh0rst@ftp.judybsails.com/Jb1umh0rst/vspfiles/knowlegebase/measure > mentforms/HydeNorcal-Mainsail-Measurement-V20111113.xlsm > > > > > > Judy Blumhorst > Hyde Sails of Northern California > www.judybsails.com?? > judy(a)judybsails.com > > > cell: 925.208.1692 > fax: 925.820.2327 > skype: judith.blumhorst > www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica > ? > > > > ________________________________ > From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 10:27 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > > For those of you who wonder what measurements you need to supply to a sail > maker, there are two answers.? > > If you're looking for a quotation, all you need to supply is the I, J,P > and > E.? If you're off by a couple of inches it won't matter in terms of > price.? > (In terms of design, 3" on the luff is > > Once you have chosen your sailmaker, you need to supply a lot more > measurement.? However, if the sailmaker has made lots of the same sail > before, they may not need all of the measurements.? We usually have a > "stock" design that will fit most boats.?? > > Here are the links to the measurement forms I use.? There are a lot of > measurements that go into the design of the sail, include matching mast > rake, bow shear, location of genoa tracks, etc.? > > > > Headsail measurement form - pdfMainsail measurement form - pdf > > > Headsail measurement form - xlsm > Mainsail measurement form -xlxm > > ? > Judy Blumhorst > Hyde Sails of Northern California > www.judybsails.com?? > judy(a)judybsails.com > > > cell: 925.208.1692 > fax: 925.820.2327 > skype: judith.blumhorst > www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica > ? > > > > ________________________________ > From: jerry montgomery <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 7:59 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > > Actually, it goes down to the extended deck line, not the sheer.? You > pretty > much need a sailplan drawing to do it accurately, because you need to > project the deck line aft, on the centerline, ignoring the house, to the > point where the extended front edge of the mast would intersect with it. > You > use the same imaginary point for calculating the J. > > When you measured the mast, you didn't include the masthead, did you?? It > should be 10' even; I just doublechecked the sailplan.? #176 would be one > of > the boats that I made, and I used to buy the masts directly from the > extruder, 1000 lbs at a time, cut to length.? If it's longer than that, > its > got to be an aftermarket mast. > > I told someone incorrectly, a while back, that the mast was 19'6", but > that > was the M-12 I was thinking of.? Hope this helps. > > If you have decided on a sailmaker, I understand that he/she can get a > sailplan off the internet.? If not, have them email me. > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:48 AM > Subject: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > > > I am attempting to measure my M15 to determine if it is "standard" sail > measurements or not. > > I already have determined that it is a bit different than some > specifications given for mast length: my mast length appears to be 19'2" > (Hull 176 - 1981). > > My confusion lies in the "I" measurement. Some measuring guides tell me to > measure from the jib halyard block down to the deck (the cabin top). > Another says to measure down to the deck sheer line (as if there were no > cabin). Not sure how one would get that number in an attempt to > guesstimate > where that sheer line would be on our 15's. > > Which of these is the correct "I" measurement for a sail loft when having > sails made? > > Jeff > > PS - It appears that I may never run out of questions for this group. > Thankful that this group is so patient and helpful. > > *Jeff+* > Mol?n labe! > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:01:29 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > Message-ID: > <1333216889.89925.YahooMailNeo(a)web5707.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > ? > Judy Blumhorst > Hyde Sails of Northern California > www.judybsails.com?? > judy(a)judybsails.com > > > cell: 925.208.1692 > fax: 925.820.2327 > skype: judith.blumhorst > www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica > ? > > > > ________________________________ > > (The third time is the charm, I hope.? Links to downloadable forms are > below) > > If all you want is a quotation, the IJP and E are adequate.? Once you > accept the sailmakers quote, the sailmaker will send you a form with the > geometry they want and are used to using. > > Here are measurement forms showing the measurements I require for a > custom-fitted sail.? There's enough data here for me to figure out missing > measurement using geometry.??? > > In my experience, customers who measure their rigs before asking the > sailmaker for a measurement form don't provide the right geometry to > design > a sail.? If you send me a different set of measurements, I'm going to > require > that you fill out this form anyway, following my instructions.? I'm used > to > doing the geometry a certain way. > > Headsail measurement forms: > > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20774907/measurement-forms/HydeNorcal-Genoa-Measurem > ent-v120332.pdf > > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20774907/measurement-forms/HydeNorcal-Genoa-Measurem > ent-v120332.xlsm > > Mainsail measurement forms: > > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20774907/measurement-forms/HydeNorcal-Mainsail-Measu > rement-V20111113.pdf > > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20774907/measurement-forms/HydeNorcal-Mainsail-Measu > rement-V20111113.xlsm > > > > Judy Blumhorst > Hyde Sails of Northern California > www.judybsails.com?? > judy(a)judybsails.com > > > cell: 925.208.1692 > fax: 925.820.2327 > skype: judith.blumhorst > www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica > ? > > > > ________________________________ > From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 10:27 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > > For those of you who wonder what measurements you need to supply to a sail > maker, there are two answers.? > > If you're looking for a quotation, all you need to supply is the I, J,P > and > E.? If you're off by a couple of inches it won't matter in terms of > price.? > (In terms of design, 3" on the luff is > > Once you have chosen your sailmaker, you need to supply a lot more > measurement.? However, if the sailmaker has made lots of the same sail > before, they may not need all of the measurements.? We usually have a > "stock" design that will fit most boats.?? > > Here are the links to the measurement forms I use.? There are a lot of > measurements that go into the design of the sail, include matching mast > rake, bow shear, location of genoa tracks, etc.? > > > > Headsail measurement form - pdfMainsail measurement form - pdf > > > Headsail measurement form - xlsm > Mainsail measurement form > -xlxm > > ? > Judy Blumhorst > Hyde Sails of Northern California > www.judybsails.com?? > judy(a)judybsails.com > > > cell: 925.208.1692 > fax: 925.820.2327 > skype: judith.blumhorst > www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica > ? > > > > ________________________________ > From: jerry montgomery <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 7:59 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > > Actually, it goes down to the extended deck line, not the sheer.? You > pretty > much need a sailplan drawing to do it accurately, because you need to > project the deck line aft, on the centerline, ignoring the house, to the > point where the extended front edge of the mast would intersect with it. > You > use the same imaginary point for calculating the J. > > When you measured the mast, you didn't include the masthead, did you?? It > should be 10' even; I just doublechecked the sailplan.? #176 would be one > of > the boats that I made, and I used to buy the masts directly from the > extruder, 1000 lbs at a time, cut to length.? If it's longer than that, > its > got to be an aftermarket mast. > > I told someone incorrectly, a while back, that the mast was 19'6", but > that > was the M-12 I was thinking of.? Hope this helps. > > If you have decided on a sailmaker, I understand that he/she can get a > sailplan off the internet.? If not, > have them email me. > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:48 AM > Subject: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > > > I am attempting to measure my M15 to determine if it is "standard" sail > measurements or not. > > I already have determined that it is a bit different than some > specifications given for mast length: my mast length appears to be 19'2" > (Hull 176 - 1981). > > My confusion lies in the "I" measurement. Some measuring guides tell me to > measure from the jib halyard block down to the deck (the cabin top). > Another says to measure down to the deck sheer line (as if there were no > cabin). Not > sure how one would get that number in an attempt to guesstimate > where that sheer line would be on our 15's. > > Which of these is the correct "I" measurement for a sail loft when having > sails made? > > Jeff > > PS - It appears that I may never run out of questions for this group. > Thankful that this group is so patient and helpful. > > *Jeff+* > Mol?n labe! > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:04:41 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: M_Boats: Fw: Sail Measurements Confusion > Message-ID: > <1333217081.68425.YahooMailNeo(a)web5717.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > (The third time is the charm, I hope.? Links to downloadable forms are > below) > > > If all you want is a quotation, the IJP and E are adequate.? Once you > accept > the sailmakers quote, the sailmaker will send you a form with thegeometry > they want and are used to using. > > Here are measurement forms showing the measurements I require for a > custom-fitted sail.? There's enough data here for me to figure out missing > measurement using geometry.??? > > In my experience, customers who measure their rigs before asking the > sailmaker for a measurement form don't provide the right geometry to > design > a sail.? If you send me a different set of measurements, I'm going to > require that you fill out this form anyway, following my instructions.? > I'm > used to doing the geometry a certain way. > > Headsail measurement forms: > > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20774907/measurement-forms/HydeNorcal-Genoa-Measurem > ent-v120332.pdf > > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20774907/measurement-forms/HydeNorcal-Genoa-Measurem > ent-v120332.xlsm > > Mainsail measurement forms: > > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20774907/measurement-forms/HydeNorcal-Mainsail-Measu > rement-V20111113.pdf > > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20774907/measurement-forms/HydeNorcal-Mainsail-Measu > rement-V20111113.xlsm > > > > Judy Blumhorst > Hyde Sails of Northern California > www.judybsails.com?? > judy(a)judybsails.com > > > cell: 925.208.1692 > fax: 925.820.2327 > skype: judith.blumhorst > www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica > ? > > > > ________________________________ > From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 10:27 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > > For those of you who wonder what measurements you need to supply to a sail > maker, there are two answers.? > > If you're looking for a quotation, all you need to supply is the I, J,P > and > E.? If you're off by a couple of inches it won't matter in terms of > price.? > (In terms of design, 3" on the luff is > > Once you have chosen your sailmaker, you need to supply a lot more > measurement.? However, if the sailmaker has made lots of the same sail > before, they may not need all of the measurements.? We usually have a > "stock" design that will fit most boats.?? > > Here are the links to the measurement forms I use.? There are a lot of > measurements that go into the design of the sail, include matching mast > rake, bow shear, location of genoa tracks, etc.? > > > > Headsail measurement form - pdfMainsail measurement form - pdf > > > Headsail measurement form - xlsm > Mainsail measurement form > -xlxm > > ? > Judy Blumhorst > Hyde Sails of Northern California > www.judybsails.com?? > judy(a)judybsails.com > > > cell: 925.208.1692 > fax: 925.820.2327 > skype: judith.blumhorst > www.HydeSails.com/NorthAmerica > ? > > > > ________________________________ > From: jerry montgomery <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 7:59 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > > Actually, it goes down to the extended deck line, not the sheer.? You > pretty > much need a sailplan drawing to do it accurately, because you need to > project the deck line aft, on the centerline, ignoring the house, to the > point where the extended front edge of the mast would intersect with it. > You > use the same imaginary point for calculating the J. > > When you measured the mast, you didn't include the masthead, did you?? It > should be 10' even; I just doublechecked the sailplan.? #176 would be one > of > the boats that I made, and I used to buy the masts directly from the > extruder, 1000 lbs at a time, cut to length.? If it's longer than that, > its > got to be an aftermarket mast. > > I told someone incorrectly, a while back, that the mast was 19'6", but > that > was the M-12 I was thinking of.? Hope this helps. > > If you have decided on a sailmaker, I understand that he/she can get a > sailplan off the internet.? If not, > have them email me. > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:48 AM > Subject: M_Boats: Sail Measurements Confusion > > > I am attempting to measure my M15 to determine if it is "standard" sail > measurements or not. > > I already have determined that it is a bit different than some > specifications given for mast length: my mast length appears to be 19'2" > (Hull 176 - 1981). > > My confusion lies in the "I" measurement. Some measuring guides tell me to > measure from the jib halyard block down to the deck (the cabin top). > Another says to measure down to the deck sheer line (as if there were no > cabin). Not > sure how one would get that number in an attempt to guesstimate > where that sheer line would be on our 15's. > > Which of these is the correct "I" measurement for a sail loft when having > sails made? > > Jeff > > PS - It appears that I may never run out of questions for this group. > Thankful that this group is so patient and helpful. > > *Jeff+* > Mol?n labe! > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > montgomery_boats mailing list > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 109, Issue 26 > ************************************************* > > > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 17:26:29 -0700 From: Tom Smith <openboatt(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: CB Pennant Message-ID: <CA+3pONK-7NRYtZOh0AHXa679Hy0P3poqVdbi4fev9KrOCbsshw(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 I'll send pics to you personally, Gary, so as not to clutter up the list. t On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 5:09 PM, <tommyval(a)aol.com> wrote: > > Tom > > Thanks for your reply and yes please send the picture. Yes this was the next to the last boat Jerry built. > > Thanks again > > Gary Valetti > > M17 1993 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Smith <openboatt(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tue, Apr 3, 2012 4:02 pm > Subject: Re: M_Boats: CB Pennant > > > Gary, I just replaced the CB pennant on my '92 M17, and assuming a '93 > s a jerry built boat, replacing the pennant is a very easy matter > once you have the boat in the air, that is). ?Sounds like you've got > ll the bases covered. ?You won't need 7 feet of line, but what the > eck, line is cheap. > Once you have the CB dropped down (it won't drop all the way down.. a > ip at the front of the CB prevents that) you should have not trouble > hreading the new pennant down from the cockpit. > It's easy to milk the core out of braided line. ?Make sure the working > nd isn't melted closed, and just sort of work the outside cover up > rom the end. ?You'll see the core pretty soon. ?Pinch it between your > ingers and slide the cover up, oh, a foot let's say. ?Snip off the > ore. ?Now you've got a skinnier end piece that when knotted takes up > ess space but is still very strong. > If your CB is like mine, and I assume it is, there's a lateral hole > ear the upper end of the CB that will contain the stopper knot. ?The > limmed down end of the pennant is fed down a hole in the top of the > nd of the CB to that larger space--couple inches or so. ?Feed the > ine in, tie the stopper knot of your choice and bingo, done. > If your setup is like mine, you'll need to then tie another stopper on > he cockpit end to establish the depth of the CB. ?My pennant comes up > hrough a horn cleat. ?I tied mine so the hole containing the knot in > he CB in up just inside the shoal keel. > I can send a pic or to if you like. ?t > On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 12:18 PM, ?<tommyval(a)aol.com> wrote: > > ?While on the subject of CB pennant replacement I am planning on replacing mine > his spring and this is the plan, please feel free to correct me or add anything > hat I need to do that I might have missed. > > ?place boat on blocks so CB can be completly dropped > ?purchase about 7 feet of 5/16 line > ?tape new line to old line and feed it thru > ?decore new line (how is ths done?) > ?attach new line to CB ( I have not done this before so can someone tell me if > here is a pin that needs to be knocked ?out or what the proper way might be) > ?tie in a fiqure 8 knot. > ?be sure CB stopper knot holds the CB so it doesn't rest on the casing > > ?Any and all advice is appreciated. > > ?Thanks > > ?Gary > ?M17 1993 > > > > > ?-----Original Message----- > ?From: Tom Smith <openboatt(a)gmail.com> > ?To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > ?Sent: Tue, Apr 3, 2012 2:43 pm > ?Subject: Re: M_Boats: CB Pennant > > > ?Sorry your question hasn't been addressed, Philip. ?What year is your > ?17? ?A couple important CB configurations over time... > ?On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 11:00 AM, ?<seable(a)lava.net> wrote: > ?Howzit? > > ?I?m close to re-launching my Hawaiian ?barnfind? M17 > ?which sat trailered under a mango tree for 6 years. > > ?We much enjoy the O.G. banter and info; but haven?t yet > ?heard an answer to my question about accessing the > ?centerboard/pennant attachment point, (for that matter > ?I haven?t seen a photo or drawing of the CB itself, or with trunk.) > > ?Once she?s off the trailer, can I lower the CB and replace the pennant > ?underwater? Conversely, while the aft end of the CB rests on the trailer, > ?can I drift out the pin to drop the front enough for the job? So I?ll be > ?repared, > ?what is the optimum pennant length and material/fastener? > > ?I?ve now heard of fixed keel and lifting bulb M17?s. I?ve got a ?91 standard > ?G CB > ?and a gorgeous mahogany plank for a rudder which I hate to turn into a > ?ick-up, > ?until the first time I find a coral head! > > ?Thanks for your help! ?AlooHa! ? Philipp @ SE?ABLE > > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 20:51:31 -0400 (EDT) From: tommyval(a)aol.com To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: CB Pennant Message-ID: <8CEE01435F507A3-F18-78EE(a)Webmail-d115.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thanks Tom -----Original Message----- From: Tom Smith <openboatt(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 3, 2012 8:27 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: CB Pennant I'll send pics to you personally, Gary, so as not to clutter up the list. t On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 5:09 PM, <tommyval(a)aol.com> wrote: Tom Thanks for your reply and yes please send the picture. Yes this was the next o the last boat Jerry built. Thanks again Gary Valetti M17 1993 -----Original Message----- From: Tom Smith <openboatt(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 3, 2012 4:02 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: CB Pennant Gary, I just replaced the CB pennant on my '92 M17, and assuming a '93 s a jerry built boat, replacing the pennant is a very easy matter once you have the boat in the air, that is). Sounds like you've got ll the bases covered. You won't need 7 feet of line, but what the eck, line is cheap. Once you have the CB dropped down (it won't drop all the way down.. a ip at the front of the CB prevents that) you should have not trouble hreading the new pennant down from the cockpit. It's easy to milk the core out of braided line. Make sure the working nd isn't melted closed, and just sort of work the outside cover up rom the end. You'll see the core pretty soon. Pinch it between your ingers and slide the cover up, oh, a foot let's say. Snip off the ore. Now you've got a skinnier end piece that when knotted takes up ess space but is still very strong. If your CB is like mine, and I assume it is, there's a lateral hole ear the upper end of the CB that will contain the stopper knot. The limmed down end of the pennant is fed down a hole in the top of the nd of the CB to that larger space--couple inches or so. Feed the ine in, tie the stopper knot of your choice and bingo, done. If your setup is like mine, you'll need to then tie another stopper on he cockpit end to establish the depth of the CB. My pennant comes up hrough a horn cleat. I tied mine so the hole containing the knot in he CB in up just inside the shoal keel. I can send a pic or to if you like. t On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 12:18 PM, <tommyval(a)aol.com> wrote: While on the subject of CB pennant replacement I am planning on replacing ine his spring and this is the plan, please feel free to correct me or add nything hat I need to do that I might have missed. place boat on blocks so CB can be completly dropped purchase about 7 feet of 5/16 line tape new line to old line and feed it thru decore new line (how is ths done?) attach new line to CB ( I have not done this before so can someone tell me if here is a pin that needs to be knocked out or what the proper way might be) tie in a fiqure 8 knot. be sure CB stopper knot holds the CB so it doesn't rest on the casing Any and all advice is appreciated. Thanks Gary M17 1993 -----Original Message----- From: Tom Smith <openboatt(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 3, 2012 2:43 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: CB Pennant Sorry your question hasn't been addressed, Philip. What year is your 17? A couple important CB configurations over time... On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 11:00 AM, <seable(a)lava.net> wrote: Howzit? I?m close to re-launching my Hawaiian ?barnfind? M17 which sat trailered under a mango tree for 6 years. We much enjoy the O.G. banter and info; but haven?t yet heard an answer to my question about accessing the centerboard/pennant attachment point, (for that matter I haven?t seen a photo or drawing of the CB itself, or with trunk.) Once she?s off the trailer, can I lower the CB and replace the pennant underwater? Conversely, while the aft end of the CB rests on the trailer, can I drift out the pin to drop the front enough for the job? So I?ll be repared, what is the optimum pennant length and material/fastener? I?ve now heard of fixed keel and lifting bulb M17?s. I?ve got a ?91 standard G CB and a gorgeous mahogany plank for a rudder which I hate to turn into a ick-up, until the first time I find a coral head! Thanks for your help! AlooHa! Philipp @ SE?ABLE ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 22:14:11 -0400 From: Bill Wickett <billwick(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot Message-ID: <CAFd5cDkHGA97_1AAjvYC+=SXRcR9SP5L2DVo0uMQxkk77qyYsg(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Not to hard to make an outhaul. Can be as simple as a cheek block and a cleat. The block would be at the aft end of the boom, to turn the outhaul line so it can be cleated farther up the boom. We have an 1-1/8" diameter block there. Mounted as far aft as possible, just beside the groove. I think it is a Harken #092 Bullet Block. Could also use a slightly larger diameter 1 1/2" Harken #132. Both use #10 machine screws. You will have to drill the boom 2 x and then tap the hole. You can get a #10 tap at auto parts store. Mount a 3" horn cleat or a small cam cleat about 12" forward from that. Again, drill and tap for the screws. Bed the hardware with Lifecaulk, or 4200. If you want to have a bit more mechanical advantage 4:1, use a second single block on a second line from a small padeye to the cleat. Hard to write it out. Go here to see the picture http://www.harken.com/rigtips/Outhaul.php Even cruising, having the control of the foot makes a difference. Doesn't take much tweaking to get more power. Bill Wickett Makin' Time M17 #622 On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> wrote: > As I am ready to order new sails for My Monty 15, I have been reading > everything I can about sail configuration for this boat and listening to > much advice herein. Many indicate that I should go with a loose footed main > (presumably, giving far better sail shape control). > > However, I have recently read somewhere that it takes some > modification/additions to the outhaul to effectively use the loose footed > style. I believe the reference was to some sort of block arrangement to > give greater purchase when tightening the foot. > > My rig is the old standard with a track/slot boom for the bolt rope. The > outhaul has no block set-up, just a straight pull and tie off line. > > So, if I choose the loose foot, what mods am I facing to make it all work > properly and efficiently ??. > > I don't race, I cruise, primarily recreational day sailing. I enjoy > tweaking a bit more out of any sailboat, but do not care to make extensive > mods to my rig if the attached foot arrangement is adequate for my sailing > style and the loose foot only adds an imperceptible improvement to > performance. > > What say all of you experts? I thank you all again for any advice offered! > > *Jeff Johnston+* > Mol?n labe! > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 22:24:22 -0400 From: "Karen and Smiley" <magoo252(a)comcast.net> To: "Montgomery Sailboat Forum" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Responding to queries on the forum Message-ID: <000901cd120a$0c942220$25bc6660$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" PLEASE don't respond to sender when you want to post a response, it just repeats all the treads. Its simpler and cleaner to start a new thread with your response. Easier to read and comprehend. As an example I started a new thread rather than just hit respond to sender. MANY thanks for taking a minute to get this. Smiley, M15 Another Wrinkle #616 magoo252(a)comcast.net ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 110, Issue 4 ************************************************

2 1

Fw: M15 Foresail Size??
by jerry montgomery 04 Apr '12

04 Apr '12

Sorry 'bout that- so much for my memory! Harry and Judy are totally right- 135, or from measuring the sailplan, 138. I just dragged out a sailplan and measured it carefully. Maybe the M 17 is 109- or maybe the M-12. Or something. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "W David Scobie" <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> To: <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:38 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Foresail Size?? jerry: responding to you off-list. 128% is what stated by harry as the stand M15 jib on the Glesser M15 sail order from a few years ago. this is also what is quoted on the msog.org site - http://www.msog.org/specs/m15sailmeasure.cfm let me know which is correct so i can put it in my note. maybe you need to call harry? - dave --- On Thu, 3/29/12, jerry montgomery <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> wrote: > > I'll have to agree to disagree with > you on this one, Dave. If I remember correctly the > lapper for the 15 is a 109; much larger and you would have > to sheet it on the rail and pointing would suffer. You > could probably go to about a 112 and still get it inside the > shrouds, but then it would need to sheet a bit further aft. > > Jeff, if you go to a sailmaker who doesn't have a sailplan, > have him email me and I'll send him one. Both Harry P > and Judy B have sailplans and do very good sails. > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- From: "W David Scobie" <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 1:23 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Foresail Size?? > > > the jib currently made by Elliot/Pattison Sailmakers for the > M15 is 128%. get a jib the size that E/P is now making. > > for your quoted wind speeds, as you stated, a second reef > point is nice insurance. in my opinion (IMO) you > should tuck in a second reef when the wind goes about 17/18 > knots on the M15. once the wind gets above the low-ish > 20s you need a smaller jib. > > > :: Dave Scobie > :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com > :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.com > > --- On Thu, 3/29/12, Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > If I'm to order new main and jib for > > my Monty 15 (which I'm likely to do > > soon): > > > > What size range (100%, 110%, 120%, etc) jib makes the > most > > sense. I believe > > the boat came standard with a 100%. I can only afford > one > > jib at present. > > > > My sailing will be primarily near shore Great Lakes > (Lake > > Huron, Tawas Bay, > > North Channel, Georgian Bay) and smaller inland lakes. > I'm > > guessing my > > winds typically to be 5-18 MPH. My main will have two > > reefs. > > > > Thanks for any and all advice. > > > > > > *Jeff+* > > Molōn labe! > > > > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 6334 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > >

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Hello from M-15 owner in OR
by shipwrecked55＠yahoo.com 04 Apr '12

04 Apr '12

I thought it was time to stop lurking and say Hello ! Last fall I bought a Montgomery 15 hull # 302. Sailed it a few times in one of the local lakes befor winter set in. With the sun peeking out once in a while, Im getting eager to put the boat back in the water. The boat is in really nice condition and is a pleasues to sail. TR

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Sails on my M17
by Mack Warner 04 Apr '12

04 Apr '12

Wish I still had my 74 M17. Blue hull and believe it is in Fl. A lot of talk about sails. When I bought mine in 76, it came with: main, jib, 135 gen, 150 gen, 170 gen, 170 reacher, 150 drifter, spinnaker, tall boy, stay sail. Since the sail were light, it made it fun to change out. My boat also had a full width roller traveler in front of the door and it had aluminum toe rail. No motor. Mack Sent from my iPad

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CB Pennant
by seable＠lava.net 04 Apr '12

04 Apr '12

Howzit? I’m close to re-launching my Hawaiian “barnfind” M17 which sat trailered under a mango tree for 6 years. We much enjoy the O.G. banter and info; but haven’t yet heard an answer to my question about accessing the centerboard/pennant attachment point, (for that matter I haven’t seen a photo or drawing of the CB itself, or with trunk.) Once she’s off the trailer, can I lower the CB and replace the pennant underwater? Conversely, while the aft end of the CB rests on the trailer, can I drift out the pin to drop the front enough for the job? So I’ll be prepared, what is the optimum pennant length and material/fastener? I’ve now heard of fixed keel and lifting bulb M17’s. I’ve got a ‘91 standard FG CB and a gorgeous mahogany plank for a rudder which I hate to turn into a kick-up, until the first time I find a coral head! Thanks for your help! AlooHa! Philipp @ SE’ABLE

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