April 2012 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: How many boats make a fleet?
by bownez＠juno.com 14 Apr '12

14 Apr '12

Hi Skip, I thought a M6.8 was the smallest pram Jerry built..... Pictures? You have my curiosity stirred. I'm at 3 M boats.... Bones ____________________________________________________________ 57 Year Old Looks 27 Local Woman Reveals Wrinkle Secret That Has Doctors Angry. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4f88ec364c658443462st05vuc

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Weather helm and trim
by Steve Varley 13 Apr '12

13 Apr '12

Thanks to Dan, Tom, and Dave for the sage advice. Not what I expected at all. O.K. I will look into the 'archives' for info about mast rake and I guess the main thing is to get comfortable reefing way-earlier. I hadn't thought about whether the main was flat-enough. I really thought the mast rake was too far aft. Oh, does Bruce King really sail a M-15? I've spend far more time in Ericsons than I have in M's. Thanks! Steve M-15 631

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Re: M_Boats: Auto: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 110, Issue 14
by TOMMYVAL＠aol.com 13 Apr '12

13 Apr '12

yep In a message dated 4/12/2012 3:59:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, frjeff(a)gmail.com writes: Anybody else getting blank email from the MSOG mailing list (from tj(a)terryjohnson.net via mailman.xmission.com) This is the second or third such blank/empty email. Jeff On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 2:48 PM, <tj(a)terryjohnson.net> wrote: > > > -- *Jeff+* Molōn labe!

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Outboard motor mounting?
by Randy 13 Apr '12

13 Apr '12

Thanks for your input Dave. Can your 4hp longshaft mount directly to the transom or does it still need a bracket to keep the prop low enough in the water? Randy -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:48 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 110, Issue 14 Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Auto: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 110, Issue 13 (tj(a)terryjohnson.net) 2. Re: VSS (Jeffrey Johnston) 3. Re: VSS (bownez(a)juno.com) 4. Outboard Motor M-17 (Randy) 5. Re: Towing safety reminder from my experience (Hughston, Larry@DGS) 6. Re: Outboard Motor M-17 (W David Scobie) 7. Re: VSS (Tom Smith) 8. Re: Towing safety reminder from my experience (ndorf(a)surfbest.net) 9. Re: Outboard Motor M-17 (Ed) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 02:32:55 -0700 From: tj(a)terryjohnson.net To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Auto: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 110, Issue 13 Message-ID: <B0060436875(a)mail2.sti.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:56:36 -0500 From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: VSS Message-ID: <CAFS5qAvqDuV2COJgbzFqnG2j5kEnTtK3m7ipdc0ouuvu08QTdA(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Gary, Beautiful! My desires exactly. Jeff+ On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 4:32 AM, <GILASAILR(a)aol.com> wrote: > Please humor me. > > I went sailing this afternoon - my 'last' sail with Maury. > > Things I learned: > > My schmatta mainsail can be made flat and the draft moved forward - > max outhaul, haly tension - used reef cringle for cunningham - voila! > (I mean MUCHO tension!) > > > An 85% jib or blade is excellent for sailing solo in a breeze. > > > A Mag-lite 'Solitaire' is a great addition to the kit - Made in > America - (like my sails, boat, motor) and waterproof too - not overpowering. > > The French make great shackles - get captive pins. > > 'Must have' item in the toolbag - 1"+ colored stopper balls - RWO > type or Ronstan - see APS catalog - they come in handy EVERYWHERE - > Reef cringle in this instance. > get one of each color for 'fun' > > Heaving-to at sunset is great for reflection and remembering ones best > friend - my Dad in law - one of the best sailors I have had the honor > to sail with. g He taught me to anchor if needed when racing (-"the > race" at Plum Gut - Around Long Island Race) - He taught me how to > make a light -air boat sail like a train in 20++ -and save his rating > - Showed me a Sunfish is a brutally honest piece of equipment - get it > right or cruise along - nothing more fun in a blow. > He showed me the need for specialty sails ie. Starcut - reaching in a > 'blow' - 'if you come to the dance - make sure you are wearing your > dancing shoes' > Never Surrender -and always know the options available and adapt if > needed. > > Widmer Bros Drifter Pale Ale is tasty - one only - sailing > shorthanded this time. > > Pipe ash will start a boat fire on deck - crisis averted. (he started > my boat on fire!) "Trim the Damn Sheet" is a proper order. > Sail as low as you can to a downwind destination - distance over > ground wins if you have 'sailing' conditions -not applicable in drifter. > It is hard to steer with a wheel after 75 years with a tiller, hence - > the nickname - Commander Wrong Way. > Sailing with family is good, fun and maybe even safe - you gotta bring > your daughters husband back from the race - Sailing with family is > good - they love you. > > See you at the weather mark Maury - Shalom > > gary > > > > -- *Jeff+* Mol?n labe! ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 12:51:41 GMT From: "bownez(a)juno.com" <bownez(a)juno.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: VSS Message-ID: <20120412.075141.17942.0(a)webmail08.vgs.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 GO, YOU humored me.... Bones ____________________________________________________________ 53 Year Old Mom Looks 33 The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4f86d011c6e5d37ef13st01vuc ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 08:46:24 -0600 From: "Randy" <randy(a)caffeibis.com> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Outboard Motor M-17 Message-ID: <000601cd18bb$09a5e370$1cf1aa50$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I apologize for bringing up an already much discussed topic. I am downsizing my outboard motor. I have a 1978 M-17 with the cutout for the engine. I currently have an extra long shaft mounted directly to the transom. The 2.5 hp engines are not available in a long shaft let alone an extra long shaft. Do I even need a long shaft or can I mount an engine bracket to drop the engine? Will I have to lean over the back of the transom to operate? Will having a bracket set back from the transom trump lowering the engine weight by getting smaller engine? Randy Wirth randy(a)caffeibis.com -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 10:40 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 110, Issue 8 Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot (Bill Wickett) 2. Re: Outhaul (wcampion(a)aol.com) 3. Re: Outhaul (Jeffrey Johnston) 4. Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot (Rick Davies) 5. Re: Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot (Bill Wickett) 6. Re: Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot (GILASAILR(a)aol.com) 7. Re: Pop rivets? (Joe Murphy) 8. Re: Responding to queries on the forum (Tom Smith) 9. Re: Pop rivets? (eisenee(a)aol.com) 10. Re: Pop rivets? (jslubliner(a)aol.com) 11. Re: Pop rivets? (GILASAILR(a)aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 16:44:57 -0400 From: Bill Wickett <billwick(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot Message-ID: <CAFd5cDmHZkg+cPbRGDp4VgxZg4XTTFc0kVvo+hgip71o_=vOpQ(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Rick, Easy answer - don't detach the outhaul or the mainsail, all season long. If you rig everytime you sail, leave your main on the boom, flaked and tied. Stow it in the cabin like that. One less thing to do when rigging or tearing down. We mostly drysail from yard, launching each time, and leave the boat completely rigged including a sailcover over the main,and the jib of the day in a sail bag at the bow. When we do travel, we leave the main on the boom. Put the sail on the boom, run the outhaul line through the clew, with a figure 8 knot through the padeye. If you do want to take off the sail each time, you will have to look for a small snap hook. Small enough to pull through the clew cringle (eye). Or tie in a knot each time. My loose footed main has a 3" long metalslug at the clew in the sail groove. It slides pretty well with a yearly waxing. If I didn't have that, guess I would have a strap through the clew cringle and around the boom. When we do stow the boom with sail, we leave the topping lift attached, until the boom is in the cabin. Makes it a very easy job for the Admiral. One end is supported. Julie lifts the gooseneck out, steps down into the cabin and guides the boom in. Then she detaches the topping lift. She hooks it up first thing when we start rigging again. Bill Wickett Makin' Time M17 #622 On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Bill, > > In the Harken 4:1 external, how is the clew connected? In the diagram > both ends of the line are dead-ended - one end to the eyestrap and > the other to the moving block. It appears to pass through the clew > cringle. But then the clew would not be detachable. What obvious point am I missing? > > Rick > M-17 #633 > Lynne L > > On Tuesday, April 3, 2012, Bill Wickett <billwick(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Not to hard to make an outhaul. Can be as simple as a cheek block > > and a cleat. The block would be at the aft end of the boom, to turn > > the outhaul line so it can be cleated farther up the boom. We have > > an 1-1/8" diameter block there. Mounted as far aft as possible, just > > beside the groove. I think it is a Harken #092 Bullet Block. Could > > also use a slightly larger diameter 1 1/2" Harken #132. Both use #10 > > machine screws. You will have > to > > drill the boom 2 x and then tap the hole. You can get a #10 tap at > > auto parts store. Mount a 3" horn cleat or a small cam cleat about > > 12" forward from that. Again, drill and tap for the screws. Bed the > > hardware with Lifecaulk, or 4200. > > > > If you want to have a bit more mechanical advantage 4:1, use a > > second single block on a second line from a small padeye to the cleat. > > > > Hard to write it out. Go here to see the picture > > http://www.harken.com/rigtips/Outhaul.php > > > > Even cruising, having the control of the foot makes a difference. > > Doesn't take much tweaking to get more power. > > > > Bill Wickett > > Makin' Time M17 #622 > > > > On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> As I am ready to order new sails for My Monty 15, I have been > >> reading everything I can about sail configuration for this boat and > >> listening to much advice herein. Many indicate that I should go > >> with a loose footed > main > >> (presumably, giving far better sail shape control). > >> > >> However, I have recently read somewhere that it takes some > >> modification/additions to the outhaul to effectively use the loose > footed > >> style. I believe the reference was to some sort of block > >> arrangement to give greater purchase when tightening the foot. > >> > >> My rig is the old standard with a track/slot boom for the bolt > >> rope. The outhaul has no block set-up, just a straight pull and tie off line. > >> > >> So, if I choose the loose foot, what mods am I facing to make it > >> all > work > >> properly and efficiently ??. > >> > >> I don't race, I cruise, primarily recreational day sailing. I > >> enjoy tweaking a bit more out of any sailboat, but do not care to > >> make > extensive > >> mods to my rig if the attached foot arrangement is adequate for my > sailing > >> style and the loose foot only adds an imperceptible improvement to > >> performance. > >> > >> What say all of you experts? I thank you all again for any advice > offered! > >> > >> *Jeff Johnston+* > >> Mol?n labe! > >> > > > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 16:48:17 -0400 (EDT) From: wcampion(a)aol.com To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Outhaul Message-ID: <8CEE0BB658A9F24-1E5C-A474(a)webmail-m079.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Jeff, I can't tell you if it's the 'proper' distance, but I can tell you, it's the exact setup on my M-15 #201. Skip M-15 1982 #201 M-10 1974 #177 -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:25 pm Subject: M_Boats: Outhaul Picture attached is of the clew of my main and outhaul. This is on my Monty 5. Does this look like the proper distance for my bolt rope attached main? Jeff+* ol?n labe! ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 16:00:38 -0500 From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Outhaul Message-ID: <CAFS5qAtJwkHTQahDqBEA6azr_R=0xypj+-mrZDoHcmZC-wTGzw(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thanks Skip. My M15 is a 1981 (176) Jeff On Apr 4, 2012 4:48 PM, <wcampion(a)aol.com> wrote: > > Jeff, > > I can't tell you if it's the 'proper' distance, but I can tell you, > it's the exact setup on my M-15 #201. > > > > Skip > M-15 1982 #201 > M-10 1974 #177 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:25 pm > Subject: M_Boats: Outhaul > > > Picture attached is of the clew of my main and outhaul. This is on my > Monty 5. > Does this look like the proper distance for my bolt rope attached main? > > Jeff+* > ol?n labe! > > > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 17:49:45 -0400 From: Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot Message-ID: <CA+0OvVhxyJmYTbhTGUV=STNh7T-DCC3X_=bWR0cr6Xe9Fi78aA(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thanks, Bill, that all makes a lot of sense. I also drysail, but had not thought of leaving the sail on all season. It's certainly quicker getting into the water if the sail's already on the boom. I can't leave the boom mounted since I have mid-boom sheeting and keep the boat covered when not in the water. I'll have to practice flaking and tieing. Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Wednesday, April 4, 2012, Bill Wickett <billwick(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Rick, > > Easy answer - don't detach the outhaul or the mainsail, all season long. If > you rig everytime you sail, leave your main on the boom, flaked and tied. > Stow it in the cabin like that. One less thing to do when rigging or > tearing down. We mostly drysail from yard, launching each time, and > leave the boat completely rigged including a sailcover over the > main,and the jib of the day in a sail bag at the bow. When we do > travel, we leave the main on the boom. > > Put the sail on the boom, run the outhaul line through the clew, with > a figure 8 knot through the padeye. If you do want to take off the > sail each time, you will have to look for a small snap hook. Small > enough to pull through the clew cringle (eye). Or tie in a knot each time. > > My loose footed main has a 3" long metalslug at the clew in the sail > groove. It slides pretty well with a yearly waxing. If I didn't have that, > guess I would have a strap through the clew cringle and around the boom. > > When we do stow the boom with sail, we leave the topping lift > attached, until the boom is in the cabin. Makes it a very easy job for the Admiral. > One end is supported. Julie lifts the gooseneck out, steps down into > the cabin and guides the boom in. Then she detaches the topping lift. > She hooks > it up first thing when we start rigging again. > > Bill Wickett > Makin' Time M17 #622 > > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Bill, >> >> In the Harken 4:1 external, how is the clew connected? In the >> diagram both >> ends of the line are dead-ended - one end to the eyestrap and the >> other to >> the moving block. It appears to pass through the clew cringle. But >> then the clew would not be detachable. What obvious point am I missing? >> >> Rick >> M-17 #633 >> Lynne L >> >> On Tuesday, April 3, 2012, Bill Wickett <billwick(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > Not to hard to make an outhaul. Can be as simple as a cheek block >> > and a cleat. The block would be at the aft end of the boom, to turn >> > the outhaul >> > line so it can be cleated farther up the boom. We have an 1-1/8" diameter >> > block there. Mounted as far aft as possible, just beside the >> > groove. I think it is a Harken #092 Bullet Block. Could also use a >> > slightly larger >> > diameter 1 1/2" Harken #132. Both use #10 machine screws. You will >> > have >> to >> > drill the boom 2 x and then tap the hole. You can get a #10 tap at >> > auto parts store. Mount a 3" horn cleat or a small cam cleat about 12" forward >> > from that. Again, drill and tap for the screws. Bed the hardware >> > with Lifecaulk, or 4200. >> > >> > If you want to have a bit more mechanical advantage 4:1, use a >> > second single block on a second line from a small padeye to the cleat. >> > >> > Hard to write it out. Go here to see the picture >> > http://www.harken.com/rigtips/Outhaul.php >> > >> > Even cruising, having the control of the foot makes a difference. Doesn't >> > take much tweaking to get more power. >> > >> > Bill Wickett >> > Makin' Time M17 #622 >> > >> > On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> >> As I am ready to order new sails for My Monty 15, I have been >> >> reading everything I can about sail configuration for this boat >> >> and listening to >> >> much advice herein. Many indicate that I should go with a loose >> >> footed >> main >> >> (presumably, giving far better sail shape control). >> >> >> >> However, I have recently read somewhere that it takes some >> >> modification/additions to the outhaul to effectively use the loose >> footed >> >> style. I believe the reference was to some sort of block >> >> arrangement to >> >> give greater purchase when tightening the foot. >> >> >> >> My rig is the old standard with a track/slot boom for the bolt rope. The >> >> outhaul has no block set-up, just a straight pull and tie off line. >> >> >> >> So, if I choose the loose foot, what mods am I facing to make it >> >> all >> work >> >> properly and efficiently ??. >> >> >> >> I don't race, I cruise, primarily recreational day sailing. I >> >> enjoy tweaking a bit more out of any sailboat, but do not care to >> >> make >> extensive >> >> mods to my rig if the attached foot arrangement is adequate for my >> sailing >> >> style and the loose foot only adds an imperceptible improvement to >> >> performance. >> >> >> >> What say all of you experts? I thank you all again for any advice >> offered! >> >> >> >> *Jeff Johnston+* >> >> Mol?n labe! >> >> >> > >> > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 18:14:37 -0400 From: Bill Wickett <billwick(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot Message-ID: <CAFd5cDnvu3_BuD1VitjZ4N6b=psbx9bU4WjkG8O8kJ7eVT2WWQ(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Rick, We have the Sailor's Tailor boat cover on when in the drysail yard. The lower end of the main sheet is connected to the traveller with a snap shackle. So that releases and we wrap that around the sail, then the sail cover goes on. End of the boom gets tied to the back stay. The boat cover has 2 loops over the cockpit area that we tie up over the boom. This also helps to keep the sail cover in place. Everything is pretty stable and has been through numerous T-storms with no ill effects. Bill On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks, Bill, that all makes a lot of sense. I also drysail, but had > not thought of leaving the sail on all season. It's certainly quicker > getting into the water if the sail's already on the boom. I can't > leave the boom mounted since I have mid-boom sheeting and keep the > boat covered when not in the water. I'll have to practice flaking and tieing. > > Rick > M17 #633 > Lynne L > > On Wednesday, April 4, 2012, Bill Wickett <billwick(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Rick, > > > > Easy answer - don't detach the outhaul or the mainsail, all season long. > If > > you rig everytime you sail, leave your main on the boom, flaked and tied. > > Stow it in the cabin like that. One less thing to do when rigging or > > tearing down. We mostly drysail from yard, launching each time, and > > leave the boat completely rigged including a sailcover over the > > main,and the > jib > > of the day in a sail bag at the bow. When we do travel, we leave the > > main on the boom. > > > > Put the sail on the boom, run the outhaul line through the clew, > > with a figure 8 knot through the padeye. If you do want to take off > > the sail > each > > time, you will have to look for a small snap hook. Small enough to > > pull through the clew cringle (eye). Or tie in a knot each time. > > > > My loose footed main has a 3" long metalslug at the clew in the sail > > groove. It slides pretty well with a yearly waxing. If I didn't > > have > that, > > guess I would have a strap through the clew cringle and around the boom. > > > > When we do stow the boom with sail, we leave the topping lift > > attached, until the boom is in the cabin. Makes it a very easy job for the Admiral. > > One end is supported. Julie lifts the gooseneck out, steps down into > > the cabin and guides the boom in. Then she detaches the topping > > lift. She > hooks > > it up first thing when we start rigging again. > > > > Bill Wickett > > Makin' Time M17 #622 > > > > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> Bill, > >> > >> In the Harken 4:1 external, how is the clew connected? In the > >> diagram > both > >> ends of the line are dead-ended - one end to the eyestrap and the > >> other > to > >> the moving block. It appears to pass through the clew cringle. But > >> then the clew would not be detachable. What obvious point am I missing? > >> > >> Rick > >> M-17 #633 > >> Lynne L > >> > >> On Tuesday, April 3, 2012, Bill Wickett <billwick(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > Not to hard to make an outhaul. Can be as simple as a cheek block > >> > and > a > >> > cleat. The block would be at the aft end of the boom, to turn the > outhaul > >> > line so it can be cleated farther up the boom. We have an 1-1/8" > diameter > >> > block there. Mounted as far aft as possible, just beside the > >> > groove. I think it is a Harken #092 Bullet Block. Could also use > >> > a slightly > larger > >> > diameter 1 1/2" Harken #132. Both use #10 machine screws. You > >> > will > have > >> to > >> > drill the boom 2 x and then tap the hole. You can get a #10 tap > >> > at > auto > >> > parts store. Mount a 3" horn cleat or a small cam cleat about 12" > forward > >> > from that. Again, drill and tap for the screws. Bed the hardware > >> > with Lifecaulk, or 4200. > >> > > >> > If you want to have a bit more mechanical advantage 4:1, use a > >> > second single block on a second line from a small padeye to the cleat. > >> > > >> > Hard to write it out. Go here to see the picture > >> > http://www.harken.com/rigtips/Outhaul.php > >> > > >> > Even cruising, having the control of the foot makes a difference. > Doesn't > >> > take much tweaking to get more power. > >> > > >> > Bill Wickett > >> > Makin' Time M17 #622 > >> > > >> > On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Jeffrey Johnston > >> > <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> As I am ready to order new sails for My Monty 15, I have been > >> >> reading everything I can about sail configuration for this boat > >> >> and listening > to > >> >> much advice herein. Many indicate that I should go with a loose > footed > >> main > >> >> (presumably, giving far better sail shape control). > >> >> > >> >> However, I have recently read somewhere that it takes some > >> >> modification/additions to the outhaul to effectively use the > >> >> loose > >> footed > >> >> style. I believe the reference was to some sort of block > >> >> arrangement > to > >> >> give greater purchase when tightening the foot. > >> >> > >> >> My rig is the old standard with a track/slot boom for the bolt rope. > The > >> >> outhaul has no block set-up, just a straight pull and tie off line. > >> >> > >> >> So, if I choose the loose foot, what mods am I facing to make it > >> >> all > >> work > >> >> properly and efficiently ??. > >> >> > >> >> I don't race, I cruise, primarily recreational day sailing. I > >> >> enjoy tweaking a bit more out of any sailboat, but do not care > >> >> to make > >> extensive > >> >> mods to my rig if the attached foot arrangement is adequate for > >> >> my > >> sailing > >> >> style and the loose foot only adds an imperceptible improvement > >> >> to performance. > >> >> > >> >> What say all of you experts? I thank you all again for any > >> >> advice > >> offered! > >> >> > >> >> *Jeff Johnston+* > >> >> Mol?n labe! > >> >> > >> > > >> > > > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 19:25:23 -0400 (EDT) From: GILASAILR(a)aol.com To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot Message-ID: <715f6.3454e04d.3cae3263(a)aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Fr. Jeff, No modifications are needed if you have a loose footed sail at the outhaul. Use a short piece of line tied through the clew grommet and around the boom with about one fingers width clearance to allow it to slide fore and aft. Or ask the sailmaker to install (you can do it yourself too) a slug at the clew. GO ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 20:02:10 -0400 From: "Joe Murphy" <seagray(a)embarqmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets? Message-ID: <BAF5182D09F74D7BAB82BD0DFF543729@D72VSMG1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I've used both aluminum pop rivets and SS tapped bolts. I tend to use SS tapped in bolts for things that pull perpendicular or have a pretty good load, such as the boom vang. When I use SS against aluminum I coat the SS piece in TefGel. It forms the barrier needed to ward off the corrosion. So far, so good. I can definitely tell where I've used TefGel and where I forgot to use it. Joe SeaFrog M17 ----- Original Message ----- From: douglas kelch To: Montgomery Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 1:41 PM Subject: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I am curious about Tom's comment on stainless pop rivets. I used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 years of use, often in saltwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily removable and the resulting larger hole was not useable. I switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to be well in excess of the need on small boats like ours. There does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless pop rivets. Am I wrong here? Thanks Doug Kelch M15 G" #310 "Seas the Day" ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 18:02:32 -0700 From: Tom Smith <openboatt(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Responding to queries on the forum Message-ID: <CA+3pONKQEbEY0CO+M3eNv1hHo-L5fBWGVG9tZ2cCidOJhFyBig(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 For guys your age, jerry, digest is much more important to young studs such as myself... t ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 21:25:33 -0400 (EDT) From: eisenee(a)aol.com To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets? Message-ID: <8CEE0E22172285A-8C0-C694(a)webmail-m170.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have been using aluminum pop rivits on all my boats for the last 40 years and don't remember one ever failing. And if something is going to fail I would rather have the rivit break then to have a large hole torn into the boom or mast. Eldor M17 Motu iti -----Original Message----- From: douglas kelch <doug1kelch(a)gmail.com> To: Montgomery <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 1:04 pm Subject: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I am curious about Tom's comment on stainless pop rivets. I used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 years of use, often in altwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily removable and the esulting larger hole was not useable. I switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to be well in xcess of the need on small boats like ours. There does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless pop rivets. Am I wrong here? Thanks Doug Kelch 15 G" #310 Seas the Day" ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 23:18:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "jslubliner(a)aol.com" <jslubliner(a)aol.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets? Message-ID: <8CEE0F1EE2174CA-1888-C1F5(a)webmail-m073.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Early Mexico racing dirty trick #1: In the mid-70-s, When Jerry and Tom Van Atta would race Jerry's most current go-fast in Guaymas... I remember a race when Jerry and Tom were racing side by side with a guy named Neal Clark in another one of Jerry's boats. At one critical point in the dual, one of the "perps" threw a handful of broken pop rivets at the competitor's sail. As the broken pop rivets began to rain down on the deck and as the sailors realized what they were seeing, they became convinced that the rig was coming apart and broke off the competition to investigate. The offending boat then sped on ahead and won the race. This proves that there is always a good use for pop rivets - and that the race is not always to the swift, but sometimes to the crafty. John in Tucson. ---------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: eisenee <eisenee(a)aol.com> To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:26 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I have been using aluminum pop rivits on all my boats for the last 40 years and don't remember one ever failing. And if something is going to fail I would rather have the rivit break then to have a large hole torn into the boom or mast. Eldor M17 Motu iti -----Original Message----- From: douglas kelch <doug1kelch(a)gmail.com> To: Montgomery <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 1:04 pm Subject: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I am curious about Tom's comment on stainless pop rivets. I used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 years of use, often in altwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily removable and the esulting larger hole was not useable. I switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to be well in xcess of the need on small boats like ours. There does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless pop rivets. Am I wrong here? Thanks Doug Kelch 15 G" #310 Seas the Day" ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 22:05:49 -0400 (EDT) From: GILASAILR(a)aol.com To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets? Message-ID: <759ec.1ba1ae94.3cae57fd(a)aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have used alum until they fail, then stainless/monel rivets - and t-gel. Locate the rivet in this picture that fell out seconds after the picture was taken -say the secret woird - win a hundred dollars! GO -popping parts/fittings for fun.

2 1

VSS
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 12 Apr '12

12 Apr '12

Please humor me. I went sailing this afternoon - my 'last' sail with Maury. Things I learned: My schmatta mainsail can be made flat and the draft moved forward - max outhaul, haly tension - used reef cringle for cunningham - voila! (I mean MUCHO tension!) An 85% jib or blade is excellent for sailing solo in a breeze. A Mag-lite 'Solitaire' is a great addition to the kit - Made in America - (like my sails, boat, motor) and waterproof too - not overpowering. The French make great shackles - get captive pins. 'Must have' item in the toolbag - 1"+ colored stopper balls - RWO type or Ronstan - see APS catalog - they come in handy EVERYWHERE - Reef cringle in this instance. get one of each color for 'fun' Heaving-to at sunset is great for reflection and remembering ones best friend - my Dad in law - one of the best sailors I have had the honor to sail with. g He taught me to anchor if needed when racing (-"the race" at Plum Gut - Around Long Island Race) - He taught me how to make a light -air boat sail like a train in 20++ -and save his rating - Showed me a Sunfish is a brutally honest piece of equipment - get it right or cruise along - nothing more fun in a blow. He showed me the need for specialty sails ie. Starcut - reaching in a 'blow' - 'if you come to the dance - make sure you are wearing your dancing shoes' Never Surrender -and always know the options available and adapt if needed. Widmer Bros Drifter Pale Ale is tasty - one only - sailing shorthanded this time. Pipe ash will start a boat fire on deck - crisis averted. (he started my boat on fire!) "Trim the Damn Sheet" is a proper order. Sail as low as you can to a downwind destination - distance over ground wins if you have 'sailing' conditions -not applicable in drifter. It is hard to steer with a wheel after 75 years with a tiller, hence - the nickname - Commander Wrong Way. Sailing with family is good, fun and maybe even safe - you gotta bring your daughters husband back from the race - Sailing with family is good - they love you. See you at the weather mark Maury - Shalom gary

4 3

Auto: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 110, Issue 14
by tj＠terryjohnson.net 12 Apr '12

12 Apr '12

5 4

Outboard Motor M-17
by Randy 12 Apr '12

12 Apr '12

I apologize for bringing up an already much discussed topic. I am downsizing my outboard motor. I have a 1978 M-17 with the cutout for the engine. I currently have an extra long shaft mounted directly to the transom. The 2.5 hp engines are not available in a long shaft let alone an extra long shaft. Do I even need a long shaft or can I mount an engine bracket to drop the engine? Will I have to lean over the back of the transom to operate? Will having a bracket set back from the transom trump lowering the engine weight by getting smaller engine? Randy Wirth randy(a)caffeibis.com -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 10:40 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 110, Issue 8 Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot (Bill Wickett) 2. Re: Outhaul (wcampion(a)aol.com) 3. Re: Outhaul (Jeffrey Johnston) 4. Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot (Rick Davies) 5. Re: Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot (Bill Wickett) 6. Re: Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot (GILASAILR(a)aol.com) 7. Re: Pop rivets? (Joe Murphy) 8. Re: Responding to queries on the forum (Tom Smith) 9. Re: Pop rivets? (eisenee(a)aol.com) 10. Re: Pop rivets? (jslubliner(a)aol.com) 11. Re: Pop rivets? (GILASAILR(a)aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 16:44:57 -0400 From: Bill Wickett <billwick(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot Message-ID: <CAFd5cDmHZkg+cPbRGDp4VgxZg4XTTFc0kVvo+hgip71o_=vOpQ(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Rick, Easy answer - don't detach the outhaul or the mainsail, all season long. If you rig everytime you sail, leave your main on the boom, flaked and tied. Stow it in the cabin like that. One less thing to do when rigging or tearing down. We mostly drysail from yard, launching each time, and leave the boat completely rigged including a sailcover over the main,and the jib of the day in a sail bag at the bow. When we do travel, we leave the main on the boom. Put the sail on the boom, run the outhaul line through the clew, with a figure 8 knot through the padeye. If you do want to take off the sail each time, you will have to look for a small snap hook. Small enough to pull through the clew cringle (eye). Or tie in a knot each time. My loose footed main has a 3" long metalslug at the clew in the sail groove. It slides pretty well with a yearly waxing. If I didn't have that, guess I would have a strap through the clew cringle and around the boom. When we do stow the boom with sail, we leave the topping lift attached, until the boom is in the cabin. Makes it a very easy job for the Admiral. One end is supported. Julie lifts the gooseneck out, steps down into the cabin and guides the boom in. Then she detaches the topping lift. She hooks it up first thing when we start rigging again. Bill Wickett Makin' Time M17 #622 On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Bill, > > In the Harken 4:1 external, how is the clew connected? In the diagram > both ends of the line are dead-ended - one end to the eyestrap and > the other to the moving block. It appears to pass through the clew > cringle. But then the clew would not be detachable. What obvious point am I missing? > > Rick > M-17 #633 > Lynne L > > On Tuesday, April 3, 2012, Bill Wickett <billwick(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Not to hard to make an outhaul. Can be as simple as a cheek block > > and a cleat. The block would be at the aft end of the boom, to turn > > the outhaul line so it can be cleated farther up the boom. We have > > an 1-1/8" diameter block there. Mounted as far aft as possible, just > > beside the groove. I think it is a Harken #092 Bullet Block. Could > > also use a slightly larger diameter 1 1/2" Harken #132. Both use #10 > > machine screws. You will have > to > > drill the boom 2 x and then tap the hole. You can get a #10 tap at > > auto parts store. Mount a 3" horn cleat or a small cam cleat about > > 12" forward from that. Again, drill and tap for the screws. Bed the > > hardware with Lifecaulk, or 4200. > > > > If you want to have a bit more mechanical advantage 4:1, use a > > second single block on a second line from a small padeye to the cleat. > > > > Hard to write it out. Go here to see the picture > > http://www.harken.com/rigtips/Outhaul.php > > > > Even cruising, having the control of the foot makes a difference. > > Doesn't take much tweaking to get more power. > > > > Bill Wickett > > Makin' Time M17 #622 > > > > On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> As I am ready to order new sails for My Monty 15, I have been > >> reading everything I can about sail configuration for this boat and > >> listening to much advice herein. Many indicate that I should go > >> with a loose footed > main > >> (presumably, giving far better sail shape control). > >> > >> However, I have recently read somewhere that it takes some > >> modification/additions to the outhaul to effectively use the loose > footed > >> style. I believe the reference was to some sort of block > >> arrangement to give greater purchase when tightening the foot. > >> > >> My rig is the old standard with a track/slot boom for the bolt > >> rope. The outhaul has no block set-up, just a straight pull and tie off line. > >> > >> So, if I choose the loose foot, what mods am I facing to make it > >> all > work > >> properly and efficiently ??. > >> > >> I don't race, I cruise, primarily recreational day sailing. I > >> enjoy tweaking a bit more out of any sailboat, but do not care to > >> make > extensive > >> mods to my rig if the attached foot arrangement is adequate for my > sailing > >> style and the loose foot only adds an imperceptible improvement to > >> performance. > >> > >> What say all of you experts? I thank you all again for any advice > offered! > >> > >> *Jeff Johnston+* > >> Mol?n labe! > >> > > > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 16:48:17 -0400 (EDT) From: wcampion(a)aol.com To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Outhaul Message-ID: <8CEE0BB658A9F24-1E5C-A474(a)webmail-m079.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Jeff, I can't tell you if it's the 'proper' distance, but I can tell you, it's the exact setup on my M-15 #201. Skip M-15 1982 #201 M-10 1974 #177 -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:25 pm Subject: M_Boats: Outhaul Picture attached is of the clew of my main and outhaul. This is on my Monty 5. Does this look like the proper distance for my bolt rope attached main? Jeff+* ol?n labe! ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 16:00:38 -0500 From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Outhaul Message-ID: <CAFS5qAtJwkHTQahDqBEA6azr_R=0xypj+-mrZDoHcmZC-wTGzw(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thanks Skip. My M15 is a 1981 (176) Jeff On Apr 4, 2012 4:48 PM, <wcampion(a)aol.com> wrote: > > Jeff, > > I can't tell you if it's the 'proper' distance, but I can tell you, > it's the exact setup on my M-15 #201. > > > > Skip > M-15 1982 #201 > M-10 1974 #177 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 4:25 pm > Subject: M_Boats: Outhaul > > > Picture attached is of the clew of my main and outhaul. This is on my > Monty 5. > Does this look like the proper distance for my bolt rope attached main? > > Jeff+* > ol?n labe! > > > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 17:49:45 -0400 From: Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot Message-ID: <CA+0OvVhxyJmYTbhTGUV=STNh7T-DCC3X_=bWR0cr6Xe9Fi78aA(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thanks, Bill, that all makes a lot of sense. I also drysail, but had not thought of leaving the sail on all season. It's certainly quicker getting into the water if the sail's already on the boom. I can't leave the boom mounted since I have mid-boom sheeting and keep the boat covered when not in the water. I'll have to practice flaking and tieing. Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Wednesday, April 4, 2012, Bill Wickett <billwick(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Rick, > > Easy answer - don't detach the outhaul or the mainsail, all season long. If > you rig everytime you sail, leave your main on the boom, flaked and tied. > Stow it in the cabin like that. One less thing to do when rigging or > tearing down. We mostly drysail from yard, launching each time, and > leave the boat completely rigged including a sailcover over the > main,and the jib of the day in a sail bag at the bow. When we do > travel, we leave the main on the boom. > > Put the sail on the boom, run the outhaul line through the clew, with > a figure 8 knot through the padeye. If you do want to take off the > sail each time, you will have to look for a small snap hook. Small > enough to pull through the clew cringle (eye). Or tie in a knot each time. > > My loose footed main has a 3" long metalslug at the clew in the sail > groove. It slides pretty well with a yearly waxing. If I didn't have that, > guess I would have a strap through the clew cringle and around the boom. > > When we do stow the boom with sail, we leave the topping lift > attached, until the boom is in the cabin. Makes it a very easy job for the Admiral. > One end is supported. Julie lifts the gooseneck out, steps down into > the cabin and guides the boom in. Then she detaches the topping lift. > She hooks > it up first thing when we start rigging again. > > Bill Wickett > Makin' Time M17 #622 > > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Bill, >> >> In the Harken 4:1 external, how is the clew connected? In the >> diagram both >> ends of the line are dead-ended - one end to the eyestrap and the >> other to >> the moving block. It appears to pass through the clew cringle. But >> then the clew would not be detachable. What obvious point am I missing? >> >> Rick >> M-17 #633 >> Lynne L >> >> On Tuesday, April 3, 2012, Bill Wickett <billwick(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > Not to hard to make an outhaul. Can be as simple as a cheek block >> > and a cleat. The block would be at the aft end of the boom, to turn >> > the outhaul >> > line so it can be cleated farther up the boom. We have an 1-1/8" diameter >> > block there. Mounted as far aft as possible, just beside the >> > groove. I think it is a Harken #092 Bullet Block. Could also use a >> > slightly larger >> > diameter 1 1/2" Harken #132. Both use #10 machine screws. You will >> > have >> to >> > drill the boom 2 x and then tap the hole. You can get a #10 tap at >> > auto parts store. Mount a 3" horn cleat or a small cam cleat about 12" forward >> > from that. Again, drill and tap for the screws. Bed the hardware >> > with Lifecaulk, or 4200. >> > >> > If you want to have a bit more mechanical advantage 4:1, use a >> > second single block on a second line from a small padeye to the cleat. >> > >> > Hard to write it out. Go here to see the picture >> > http://www.harken.com/rigtips/Outhaul.php >> > >> > Even cruising, having the control of the foot makes a difference. Doesn't >> > take much tweaking to get more power. >> > >> > Bill Wickett >> > Makin' Time M17 #622 >> > >> > On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> >> As I am ready to order new sails for My Monty 15, I have been >> >> reading everything I can about sail configuration for this boat >> >> and listening to >> >> much advice herein. Many indicate that I should go with a loose >> >> footed >> main >> >> (presumably, giving far better sail shape control). >> >> >> >> However, I have recently read somewhere that it takes some >> >> modification/additions to the outhaul to effectively use the loose >> footed >> >> style. I believe the reference was to some sort of block >> >> arrangement to >> >> give greater purchase when tightening the foot. >> >> >> >> My rig is the old standard with a track/slot boom for the bolt rope. The >> >> outhaul has no block set-up, just a straight pull and tie off line. >> >> >> >> So, if I choose the loose foot, what mods am I facing to make it >> >> all >> work >> >> properly and efficiently ??. >> >> >> >> I don't race, I cruise, primarily recreational day sailing. I >> >> enjoy tweaking a bit more out of any sailboat, but do not care to >> >> make >> extensive >> >> mods to my rig if the attached foot arrangement is adequate for my >> sailing >> >> style and the loose foot only adds an imperceptible improvement to >> >> performance. >> >> >> >> What say all of you experts? I thank you all again for any advice >> offered! >> >> >> >> *Jeff Johnston+* >> >> Mol?n labe! >> >> >> > >> > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 18:14:37 -0400 From: Bill Wickett <billwick(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot Message-ID: <CAFd5cDnvu3_BuD1VitjZ4N6b=psbx9bU4WjkG8O8kJ7eVT2WWQ(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Rick, We have the Sailor's Tailor boat cover on when in the drysail yard. The lower end of the main sheet is connected to the traveller with a snap shackle. So that releases and we wrap that around the sail, then the sail cover goes on. End of the boom gets tied to the back stay. The boat cover has 2 loops over the cockpit area that we tie up over the boom. This also helps to keep the sail cover in place. Everything is pretty stable and has been through numerous T-storms with no ill effects. Bill On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks, Bill, that all makes a lot of sense. I also drysail, but had > not thought of leaving the sail on all season. It's certainly quicker > getting into the water if the sail's already on the boom. I can't > leave the boom mounted since I have mid-boom sheeting and keep the > boat covered when not in the water. I'll have to practice flaking and tieing. > > Rick > M17 #633 > Lynne L > > On Wednesday, April 4, 2012, Bill Wickett <billwick(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Rick, > > > > Easy answer - don't detach the outhaul or the mainsail, all season long. > If > > you rig everytime you sail, leave your main on the boom, flaked and tied. > > Stow it in the cabin like that. One less thing to do when rigging or > > tearing down. We mostly drysail from yard, launching each time, and > > leave the boat completely rigged including a sailcover over the > > main,and the > jib > > of the day in a sail bag at the bow. When we do travel, we leave the > > main on the boom. > > > > Put the sail on the boom, run the outhaul line through the clew, > > with a figure 8 knot through the padeye. If you do want to take off > > the sail > each > > time, you will have to look for a small snap hook. Small enough to > > pull through the clew cringle (eye). Or tie in a knot each time. > > > > My loose footed main has a 3" long metalslug at the clew in the sail > > groove. It slides pretty well with a yearly waxing. If I didn't > > have > that, > > guess I would have a strap through the clew cringle and around the boom. > > > > When we do stow the boom with sail, we leave the topping lift > > attached, until the boom is in the cabin. Makes it a very easy job for the Admiral. > > One end is supported. Julie lifts the gooseneck out, steps down into > > the cabin and guides the boom in. Then she detaches the topping > > lift. She > hooks > > it up first thing when we start rigging again. > > > > Bill Wickett > > Makin' Time M17 #622 > > > > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> Bill, > >> > >> In the Harken 4:1 external, how is the clew connected? In the > >> diagram > both > >> ends of the line are dead-ended - one end to the eyestrap and the > >> other > to > >> the moving block. It appears to pass through the clew cringle. But > >> then the clew would not be detachable. What obvious point am I missing? > >> > >> Rick > >> M-17 #633 > >> Lynne L > >> > >> On Tuesday, April 3, 2012, Bill Wickett <billwick(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > Not to hard to make an outhaul. Can be as simple as a cheek block > >> > and > a > >> > cleat. The block would be at the aft end of the boom, to turn the > outhaul > >> > line so it can be cleated farther up the boom. We have an 1-1/8" > diameter > >> > block there. Mounted as far aft as possible, just beside the > >> > groove. I think it is a Harken #092 Bullet Block. Could also use > >> > a slightly > larger > >> > diameter 1 1/2" Harken #132. Both use #10 machine screws. You > >> > will > have > >> to > >> > drill the boom 2 x and then tap the hole. You can get a #10 tap > >> > at > auto > >> > parts store. Mount a 3" horn cleat or a small cam cleat about 12" > forward > >> > from that. Again, drill and tap for the screws. Bed the hardware > >> > with Lifecaulk, or 4200. > >> > > >> > If you want to have a bit more mechanical advantage 4:1, use a > >> > second single block on a second line from a small padeye to the cleat. > >> > > >> > Hard to write it out. Go here to see the picture > >> > http://www.harken.com/rigtips/Outhaul.php > >> > > >> > Even cruising, having the control of the foot makes a difference. > Doesn't > >> > take much tweaking to get more power. > >> > > >> > Bill Wickett > >> > Makin' Time M17 #622 > >> > > >> > On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Jeffrey Johnston > >> > <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> As I am ready to order new sails for My Monty 15, I have been > >> >> reading everything I can about sail configuration for this boat > >> >> and listening > to > >> >> much advice herein. Many indicate that I should go with a loose > footed > >> main > >> >> (presumably, giving far better sail shape control). > >> >> > >> >> However, I have recently read somewhere that it takes some > >> >> modification/additions to the outhaul to effectively use the > >> >> loose > >> footed > >> >> style. I believe the reference was to some sort of block > >> >> arrangement > to > >> >> give greater purchase when tightening the foot. > >> >> > >> >> My rig is the old standard with a track/slot boom for the bolt rope. > The > >> >> outhaul has no block set-up, just a straight pull and tie off line. > >> >> > >> >> So, if I choose the loose foot, what mods am I facing to make it > >> >> all > >> work > >> >> properly and efficiently ??. > >> >> > >> >> I don't race, I cruise, primarily recreational day sailing. I > >> >> enjoy tweaking a bit more out of any sailboat, but do not care > >> >> to make > >> extensive > >> >> mods to my rig if the attached foot arrangement is adequate for > >> >> my > >> sailing > >> >> style and the loose foot only adds an imperceptible improvement > >> >> to performance. > >> >> > >> >> What say all of you experts? I thank you all again for any > >> >> advice > >> offered! > >> >> > >> >> *Jeff Johnston+* > >> >> Mol?n labe! > >> >> > >> > > >> > > > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 19:25:23 -0400 (EDT) From: GILASAILR(a)aol.com To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Loose Foot vs Bolt Rope Foot Message-ID: <715f6.3454e04d.3cae3263(a)aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Fr. Jeff, No modifications are needed if you have a loose footed sail at the outhaul. Use a short piece of line tied through the clew grommet and around the boom with about one fingers width clearance to allow it to slide fore and aft. Or ask the sailmaker to install (you can do it yourself too) a slug at the clew. GO ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 20:02:10 -0400 From: "Joe Murphy" <seagray(a)embarqmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets? Message-ID: <BAF5182D09F74D7BAB82BD0DFF543729@D72VSMG1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I've used both aluminum pop rivets and SS tapped bolts. I tend to use SS tapped in bolts for things that pull perpendicular or have a pretty good load, such as the boom vang. When I use SS against aluminum I coat the SS piece in TefGel. It forms the barrier needed to ward off the corrosion. So far, so good. I can definitely tell where I've used TefGel and where I forgot to use it. Joe SeaFrog M17 ----- Original Message ----- From: douglas kelch To: Montgomery Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 1:41 PM Subject: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I am curious about Tom's comment on stainless pop rivets. I used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 years of use, often in saltwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily removable and the resulting larger hole was not useable. I switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to be well in excess of the need on small boats like ours. There does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless pop rivets. Am I wrong here? Thanks Doug Kelch M15 G" #310 "Seas the Day" ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 18:02:32 -0700 From: Tom Smith <openboatt(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Responding to queries on the forum Message-ID: <CA+3pONKQEbEY0CO+M3eNv1hHo-L5fBWGVG9tZ2cCidOJhFyBig(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 For guys your age, jerry, digest is much more important to young studs such as myself... t ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 21:25:33 -0400 (EDT) From: eisenee(a)aol.com To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets? Message-ID: <8CEE0E22172285A-8C0-C694(a)webmail-m170.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have been using aluminum pop rivits on all my boats for the last 40 years and don't remember one ever failing. And if something is going to fail I would rather have the rivit break then to have a large hole torn into the boom or mast. Eldor M17 Motu iti -----Original Message----- From: douglas kelch <doug1kelch(a)gmail.com> To: Montgomery <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 1:04 pm Subject: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I am curious about Tom's comment on stainless pop rivets. I used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 years of use, often in altwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily removable and the esulting larger hole was not useable. I switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to be well in xcess of the need on small boats like ours. There does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless pop rivets. Am I wrong here? Thanks Doug Kelch 15 G" #310 Seas the Day" ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 23:18:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "jslubliner(a)aol.com" <jslubliner(a)aol.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets? Message-ID: <8CEE0F1EE2174CA-1888-C1F5(a)webmail-m073.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Early Mexico racing dirty trick #1: In the mid-70-s, When Jerry and Tom Van Atta would race Jerry's most current go-fast in Guaymas... I remember a race when Jerry and Tom were racing side by side with a guy named Neal Clark in another one of Jerry's boats. At one critical point in the dual, one of the "perps" threw a handful of broken pop rivets at the competitor's sail. As the broken pop rivets began to rain down on the deck and as the sailors realized what they were seeing, they became convinced that the rig was coming apart and broke off the competition to investigate. The offending boat then sped on ahead and won the race. This proves that there is always a good use for pop rivets - and that the race is not always to the swift, but sometimes to the crafty. John in Tucson. ---------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: eisenee <eisenee(a)aol.com> To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 6:26 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I have been using aluminum pop rivits on all my boats for the last 40 years and don't remember one ever failing. And if something is going to fail I would rather have the rivit break then to have a large hole torn into the boom or mast. Eldor M17 Motu iti -----Original Message----- From: douglas kelch <doug1kelch(a)gmail.com> To: Montgomery <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 1:04 pm Subject: M_Boats: Pop rivets? I am curious about Tom's comment on stainless pop rivets. I used to use stainless self taping screws. Over 10 years of use, often in altwater, they fused to the boom and were not easily removable and the esulting larger hole was not useable. I switched to aluminum pop rivets as thier strength seems to be well in xcess of the need on small boats like ours. There does not seem to be any need or advantage to stainless pop rivets. Am I wrong here? Thanks Doug Kelch 15 G" #310 Seas the Day" ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 22:05:49 -0400 (EDT) From: GILASAILR(a)aol.com To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pop rivets? Message-ID: <759ec.1ba1ae94.3cae57fd(a)aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have used alum until they fail, then stainless/monel rivets - and t-gel. Locate the rivet in this picture that fell out seconds after the picture was taken -say the secret woird - win a hundred dollars! GO -popping parts/fittings for fun.

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Re: M_Boats: Towing safety reminder from my experience
by ndorf＠surfbest.net 12 Apr '12

12 Apr '12

I have the thread-in hitch like you are describing, plus another one that I use instead (from Harbor Freight) which has the ball post actually welded into place. I check it every time I hook up and after 2 years, no cracks or evidence of impeding failure. Towing an M15 I don't worry too much about the stress, but I might be reluctant to use that type on a 17 or larger. -Neil

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Towing safety reminder from my experience
by Bruce King 12 Apr '12

12 Apr '12

My crew and I had a bad experience while returning to Sacramento area from a Potter event in S.F. bay last year. Bottom line: Be sure you drill a hole in the threaded part of the trailer ball and insert a cotter pin blow the nut (or purchase this type). We ended up dragging my M15 and trailer by the safety chain at 60 MPH on I80 East due to a malfunction! The nut and a new lock washer came off despite tightening it with an 18" crescent wrench. It is a long story, but please, ALWAYS HAVE THE SAFETY OF A COTTER PIN UNDER THE NUT! PS: Don't tow Ericksons. And jerry, of course you're forgiven (funny, it could have happened to any of us) Bruce King M15 Fair Oaks,CA

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Re: M_Boats: VSS
by bownez＠juno.com 12 Apr '12

12 Apr '12

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