March 2012 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

M Boats: Cockpit drainage on 1981 M17
by jnschum 17 Mar '12

17 Mar '12

A good way to repair the old cockpit drain is to use 1-1/2" fiberglass exhaust tubing which is available at marine stores. What is left of the aluminum can be pulled out with plyers or by hand without damaging the fiberglass that was holding it. Clean up and scuff up the remaining fiberglass fillets and epoxy the tube in place. Should then be good for the life of the boat.

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Re: M_Boats: cockpit drainage on 1981 M17
by W David Scobie 16 Mar '12

16 Mar '12

tom: '81 was the year jerry retooled the M17's deck mold. does your M17 have the rear cockpit locker and two cockpit drains? or no locker, outboard motor cutout in the transom and single drain at the aft centerline of the cockpit? all of the 70s and 80s boats i have seen drain under the waterline forward of the transom (about 6") on the hull. not out the transom. if you have an above-water drain out the transom a prior owner may have modified the boat (which is good). you need to inspect the fitting. jerry installed a glassed in alum tube. very scary and can fail at any moment ... but fresh water sailing means you are better off than those that have salt water sailed boats. the test is to attempt to put your finger through the tube, or crush by squeezing with your hand. if you can damage the tube replace (ha ha). the cockpit drains on my M17 were replaced (still below the waterline thru-hulls) by the prior owner. i now have hoses and mushroom thru-hulls. a small child is a good resource. i have recruited a friend's 10 year old son to crawl to the transom to inspect and assist me in renovation projects. some folks have put an inspection port on the aft end of the cockpit footwell wall (for the 'old' deck design). for the 'new' design you can put an access port high up on the port and starboard walls in the aft 'wet' locker. FYI - the galley models also have an alum. fitting for the sink drain. this one is easy to inspect. replace if necessary as i explain above. my M17's prior owner replaced the old drain assembly. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.com --- On Fri, 3/16/12, Tom Frei <tom.frei(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Greetings: > > I have a 1981 blue M17. I've slowly been > refurbishing it over the past > two years. One thing I'm thinking about lately is the > cockpit drainage. > All I know about it is that there is a hole on the cockpit > deck and a hole > outside on the transom. I assume there is a hose > of some sort connecting > the two. The boat has always been sailed in fresh > water and I'm > experiencing no problems with cockpit drainage and the > bottom of the boat > floor always appears dry to me. > > Should I worry about the connections involved with the > drainage system on a > 30 yr boat like this, or should I assume "no harm, no foul" > and look at > other things to fix? Tied to this question is another > one: How would one > go about replacing the hoses involved with cockpit > drainage? It seems > pretty tight to even get access to that part of the boat. > > As always, thanks for your help. > > -Tom >

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Re: M_Boats: Harken windward sheeting traveler
by W David Scobie 16 Mar '12

16 Mar '12

as requested by jerry, attached is a picture of the windward sheet system on Sage 17. this system costs about 2/3rd less than the hardware discussed these past few days. :: Dave Scobie :: Sage Marine --- On Thu, 3/15/12, jerry montgomery <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> wrote: > I'm all in favor of controllable travellers and wouldn't > be without one, but in my mind the value is in being able > to pull the tra\veller to weather in > light and > sometimes moderate air- not in the ability to letting it > off the wind, which is better done with a vang. > > I like to control it with a block and cleat at each end, so > when you tack you can pull it UP quickly, from the weather > side. If you use an endless control line you can pop it > off on the other side as you tighten it. > > Dave- can you senmd a pic of how you do it on the Sage, > which is the same as I used to do on the M -17 as an > optiion? > > jerry

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cockpit drainage on 1981 M17
by Tom Frei 16 Mar '12

16 Mar '12

Greetings: I have a 1981 blue M17. I've slowly been refurbishing it over the past two years. One thing I'm thinking about lately is the cockpit drainage. All I know about it is that there is a hole on the cockpit deck and a hole outside on the transom. I assume there is a hose of some sort connecting the two. The boat has always been sailed in fresh water and I'm experiencing no problems with cockpit drainage and the bottom of the boat floor always appears dry to me. Should I worry about the connections involved with the drainage system on a 30 yr boat like this, or should I assume "no harm, no foul" and look at other things to fix? Tied to this question is another one: How would one go about replacing the hoses involved with cockpit drainage? It seems pretty tight to even get access to that part of the boat. As always, thanks for your help. -Tom

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Compass
by Jeffrey Johnston 16 Mar '12

16 Mar '12

Somewhere here I saw a pic of a Monty with what appeared to be a bulkhead compass mounted in the bottom hatchboard. No compass on my 15 and I like the idea from the pic. Any particular decent price compass brand/model that would be recommended? And, does this mounting config make sense, or are there downsides? I just have difficulty cutting holes in my boat, whereas a hatchboard is rather easily replaced. Other option suggestions welcome. Thanks all.......... Jeff

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Re: M_Boats: Harken windward sheeting traveler
by Larry E Yake 15 Mar '12

15 Mar '12

Shouldn't be any friction. The car runs on ball bearings. Sounds like something doesn't fit right. The end caps do shorten the track an inch or so on each side, compared to a standard cap, but I would recommend them. When you release the car to dump the wind in a gust the car will slam down to the low side very hard. The heavy duty end cap is padded with a two bolt mount, assuring that you're not going to break anything. It might seem like a two foot track isn't worth much, but it makes a real difference in sail trim just moving the car a short distance. Larry On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 06:36:37 -0400 Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> writes: > Larry, > > Your setup is what I first had in mind. I thought of adding the > turning > block to keep the line low like in the Harken pictures, but your > reasoning > (and experience) seem to show it's not necessary. The reason I > wasn't > planning to use the Harken endstops is that they seem to cut several > inches > off the distance the car can travel. Is this a problem? > > Thanks for the help. A picture's worth a lot of words. > > By the way, there seems to be a lot of friction between car and > track. > Does this free up with use? > > Thanks, > > Rick > M17 #633 > Lynne L > > On Wednesday, March 14, 2012, Larry E Yake <leyake(a)juno.com> wrote: > >>>I will only have 2:1 - the deck block is only a direction changer > so I > > can > > pull the car to windward from a seated position. The return to > the > > becket > > tube is in accordance with the Harken instructions, adjusted so > the car > > doesn't hit the other end of the track. > > > >>>Larry, i want the car to be able to travel right to the end of > the > > track. > > If the stop knot in the becket tube doesn't do the job I thought > of > > glueing a heavy rubber pad to the cockpit side to take the impact. > Would > > this work? > > > > Rick, > > I have attached a picture of my rig. With this simple layout I can > pull > > the car to windward easily in the strongest of wind conditions. No > need > > to complicate things with extra blocks and lines. If I follow your > plan > > correctly, you will be running the release line through a turning > block > > near the end of the track. The problem I see with that is it will > > restrict your ability to yank the line up out of the cleat if you > > suddenly want to release the car. In gusty weather, if I have the > car to > > windward at all, I sail with the release line in my hand instead > of the > > mainsheet. Yanking it out of the cleat drops the car to leeward > > instantly, which dumps a lot of the air out of the main without > > destroying the sail shape like releasing the mainsheet will. > > Larry > >

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Re: M_Boats: Harken windward sheeting traveler
by Larry E Yake 15 Mar '12

15 Mar '12

Rick, I don't know what the stock end stops are like, but you'll want good solid ones that can absorb an impact. At times that windward sheeting car will be slamming to the far end of the track pretty hard. Larry On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 19:39:03 -0400 Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> writes: > I'm using the Low Beam track with 4" hole centers, and am planning to > leave > the OEM end stops in place, cutting the new track to exactly the > same > length as the old and using the existing holes. That seems to allow > the > maximum travel for the new car. I picked #12 flat head bolts as > the > biggest that would fit the Harken track. I'm using a Harken 073 > eyestrap > mounted on the cockpit side near the end of the track to dead-end > the > control line, and a small deck block from Duckworks also mounted on > the > side at the end of the track for the return of the control line from > the > car. The line then returns to the becket tube on the car. I > haven't > drilled any holes yet, so if this doesn't seem like a good plan I > hope > someone tells me. > > Rick > M17 #633 > Lynne L > > On Wednesday, March 14, 2012, W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > wrote: > > we are using the same track as Bill, the Harken 2720.600MM Trk-SB > CB > 600MM Low Profile, on the Sage 17. the fasteners used are 10-32 > oval head > machine screws. > > > > the end stop for this track is the Harken '173A End Stop-SB'. the > end > stops also uses a 10-32 oval head machine screws. > > > > > > > > :: Dave Scobie > > :: Sage Marine > > > > --- On Wed, 3/14/12, Bill Wickett <billwick(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Rick, > >> > >> I am doing the same. I believe that the track spec uses #10 > >> screws (5mm) > >> not #12 for mounting. I am away today so can't look at the > >> actual card with > >> the track. Here is the PDF from the Harken site > >> http://www.harken.com/pdf/4972.pdf > >> > >> Which track are you using? The Harken Low Beam 22mm CB track > >> (captive ball > >> track) is available with 4" hole centers (same as the > >> OEM hole spacing) > >> but only in a much longer length (6 feet) that needs cutting > >> down. Harken > >> #373.6. List $93.60 > >> 22mm Low Beam CB track is also available with 100mm hole > >> spacing (3.93") in > >> a 600mm length (23.6"). > >> Harken #2720.600 List $34.40. This is the track I > >> have. Not installed yet, > >> boat is still under cover, but I expect to fill all holes > >> and drill and pot > >> with epoxy on new slightly different ( by .070")centers. > >> Will have to cut a > >> slight amount from each end to fit the end caps. > >> > >> These tracks will fit the windward sheeting cars 2744 / 2745 > >> / 2746. I have > >> the 2744 car. Looking forward to using it. > >> > >> Good luck > >> > >> Bill Wickett > >> Makin' Time M17 #622 > >> > >> On 3/14/12, Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > I am installing a Harken windward sheeting traveler and > >> track, and found > >> > that the Harken track mounts with #12 bolts, which look > >> to be about half > >> > the diameter of the bolts for the OEM track. > >> Since others have installed > >> > this track, I suppose that the bolt size is OK, but I > >> wanted to ask advice > >> > as to whether I can use the old holes without filling > >> them in and drilling > >> > a smaller size hole. Bob Eeg said that the old > >> holes (which look fine) > >> > could be used as is, but that was assuming re-using the > >> original bolts. > >> > Anybody have any ideas about what I should do? > >> > > >> > Thanks in advance, knowing that help will be on the > >> way, > >> > > >> > Rick > >> > M17 #633 > >> > Lynne L > >> > > >> > > > > > >

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Harken windward sheeting traveler
by Rick Davies 14 Mar '12

14 Mar '12

I am installing a Harken windward sheeting traveler and track, and found that the Harken track mounts with #12 bolts, which look to be about half the diameter of the bolts for the OEM track. Since others have installed this track, I suppose that the bolt size is OK, but I wanted to ask advice as to whether I can use the old holes without filling them in and drilling a smaller size hole. Bob Eeg said that the old holes (which look fine) could be used as is, but that was assuming re-using the original bolts. Anybody have any ideas about what I should do? Thanks in advance, knowing that help will be on the way, Rick M17 #633 Lynne L

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Cockpit Scuppers?
by Jeffrey Johnston 13 Mar '12

13 Mar '12

Upon closer eye-balling of my "new" (1981 #176) Monty 15, I find no cockpit scuppers. I cannot believe that this could be a design flaw (not typical of Jerry), but am a bit concerned about blue water soaking my feet (or worse). Ought I worry about this and retro-fit scuppers in the cockpit? If so, have others done this job and is there any type of "how-to" guide out there in Monty Land? Many thanks in advance....... *Jeff+* Molōn labe!

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Outboard Fuel Fill through Cap
by Jeffrey Johnston 13 Mar '12

13 Mar '12

Somewhere I saw a mod for filling an outboard integral (tiny) tank from a remote tank via a hose/bulb set up through a spare cap. Can anyone lead me to the "how-to" ? Would like to do this on my 2HP Honda And want to do it right. Thanks, Jeff

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