March 2010 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Tow vehicle for M23
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 02 Mar '10

02 Mar '10

When we were expecting our M23, Bob Eeg told us out Tundra with the small V8 wouldn't pull the M23. He said we should get a larger truck to haul the boat. We ended up getting the larger V8 Tundera in 2007. I think it's a 7 Liter. !0,000 lbs rating. 4 wheel drive. We've found the Truck to be excellent. I'm sure it would tow the M23 up a telephone pole in the snow. We used it to tow our M15 to Havasu and didn't notice it. sal In a message dated 3/1/2010 7:41:26 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, cjpacker(a)theofficenet.com writes: Mark, Are they putting bigger engines in the Toyota Tundra now? I'm really not looking to buy new or near new. The used Tundras I have seen have had a 4.8 liter V8. Thats a smaller engine than the Chevy I was considering and one reason I have not considered them. But maybe I'm mistaken. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roberta Dvorscak" <edarts93(a)earthlink.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 8:28 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tow vehicle for M23 > Jeff, > We pulled our M23 across some truck scales and the combined > boat/trailer/gear weight was 5,875 lbs. You better figure on a weight > close > to 6,000. We tow with a Toyota Sequoia which is equivalent in power and > weight to the 1/2 ton pickup you are considering. I think it is barely > adequate for the job but it was the vehicle we owned when we bought our > M23. > I did add air bags inside the rear coils and they work great for load > leveling. If I was buying a vehicle I would opt for a 3/4 ton pickup or > something equivalent with at least an 8,000 lb tow rating if possible. > Actually, my personal preference would be for a 2008 or newer Toyota > Tundra > (11,000 lb tow rating). The smaller engine works hard when you pull all > that > weight and gas mileage suffers accordingly. We only get 9 to 9.5 mpg > pulling > the boat and we hold the speed down to 60mph. A heavier rig with a big > gasoline engine would probably achieve 12 mpg or maybe better and a diesel > might get 17 or 18. These figures are anecdotal from talking to others > towing various boats and camp trailers with different tow vehicles - your > mileage may vary. In short, you can get by with the vehicle you are > considering but a bigger engine and a higher towing capacity will make > towing safer and easier. I guess it depends on how much you would use the > vehicle for everyday driving as opposed to towing the boat. Make sure the > trailer brakes are in good working order, especially if you choose the 1/2 > ton pickup - your life may depend on them. > Mark Dvorscak > M23 Faith > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jeff > Packer > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:40 PM > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: Tow vehicle for M23 > > Jeff here. Still lurking although I haven't posted for awhile. I'll be > sure to check my centerboard pin on "Clarity" after the recent posts on > them > coming out > > I'm going to be purchasing a truck and want something to tow my M23 > (possibly for long road trips). The boat is listed at 3600 lbs > displacement. With the trailer and misc. gear I'm thinking its probably > at > least 5000 lbs I'm looking at a 2002 chevy silverado 1500 with a 5.3 > liter > V8. I believe the 5.3L engine is comparable to a 327 cu in. Since I > won't > be towing the boat all the time and I need a work truck, the 5.3L gets > better mileage than the traditional 5.7L (350 cu in). Anyone have any > thoughts on towing with this particular truck? I've been thinking that it > would tow it fine even if I did have to slow down on hills a bit. I loved > towing it with a friend's diesel pickup, but not sure I want to drive a > diesel everyday. > > What other suggestions for a truck might someone have? > > By the way, projects for this year are lining the inside of the hull in > cabin with wood. Building shelves all around on the inside. And building > a > fold down table. The cabin was left unfinished when built. This should > add > the comforts that I want for longer trips. I have great photos of other > 23's with completed interiors thanks to all you out there that have posted > them online. :-) > > Thanks, > Jeff > M23 Clarity > Marcus WA > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2712 - Release Date: 02/26/10 > 11:39:00 > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Craig Honshell on the list?
by Doug Kelch 02 Mar '10

02 Mar '10

Is Craig Honshell still active on the list? If so drop me a note off line. Does anyone have his email address? Thanks Doug Kelch

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Re: M_Boats: Tow vehicle for M23
by Larry E Yake 02 Mar '10

02 Mar '10

>>Hi Julie, >>Is the 6 L a diesel or gas engine? I'm betting John posted this. About time you gave us the benefit of your experience, John! Now that you've broken the ice, you'll have to pitch in more often! Hope to sail with you guys again in the San Juans some day. Larry Y

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Re: M_Boats: re-coring cockpit floor
by bownez＠juno.com 02 Mar '10

02 Mar '10

Hey Joe, I think Ian was talking about the boat's foredeck. Robbin was talking about the cockpit floor. Bones ____________________________________________________________ Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210

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Re: M_Boats: re-coring cockpit floor
by bownez＠juno.com 02 Mar '10

02 Mar '10

Hello Ian, I cut carefully through the bottom layer of fiberglass with a Rotozip spiral cutting tool. I tried to use the depth jig, but it did not allow enough clearance next to the hull. Thus, I used the roto free hand. It was a nerve racking operation. You need to be so careful to not cut into the top layer of glass. Don't have too much coffee before the operation. Good luck, Bones ____________________________________________________________ Diet Help Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=l2VWNyqYkAbQMWQvNqHlVQAAJ1ApM…

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Re: M_Boats: Tow vehicle for M23
by bownez＠juno.com 02 Mar '10

02 Mar '10

Hello Julie, Thanks for your posting to the group, we always welcome more input. Don't be shy! Please tell us, what is the hull number of your rare M23? How long have you owner her? Bones ____________________________________________________________ Nutrition Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=74KA92j45qu_9ozd9W84ywAAJ1ApM…

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Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 01 Mar '10

01 Mar '10

Chris, Since I "glassed" over the ends of my pin, I'll give you my take on it. First, the last pin was in there for 25 years....I don't expect to need to take the new one out for a very long time. If I do end up needing to ,though, it takes literally about 30 seconds/side to take a small grinder to that glass patch and remove it, then you are right back where you started. Convenient? No...but a walking pin is not a comfy feeling when you start doing anything more than daysailing (not event then, really) The bolt/washer/locknut is certainly fine, although there are a couple of small disadvantages. One is obviously for the performance oriented person. The keel is acting as a foil when sailing upwind by the mere fact of the angle of attach that it is presented to the flow of water when pointing. I cannot believe that there is not some loss of performance by having an unfair object sticking up into the flow across the surface. Anything like that causes turbulence and turbulence causes separation of the flow from the "foil". That being said, Larry Yake and his Corndog are one of the fast M17's I have seen out there. He posted on here that he uses that set-up and believe me he's still fast...so are we splitting hairs here? Probably. One other consideration might be that if you sail a area prone to kelp, you want there to be as little as possible for that stuff to snag onto should you accidentally run over some. Again, probably not a HUGE concern, but something to think about. I have had some kelp snags and they are not fun...Most of the time they only snag the rudder and just flow off the keel. Getting them off the rudder is not too bad. If they find a way to snag the keel....not fun. Less things sticking out = less things to get snagged on. For me...and this is just my thought process that works for what I do...after trailering the boat and finding the pin 2 inches out to one side after just and hour before being 10 miles offshore in some conditions where I was really depending on the boat to do what she needs to do to keep me and my gal (and yes,,,Bosun! hahaha) safe, I cannot see a reason to not just tack a small glass patch over both sides and be done with it. Whichever way you go, bolt that is 100% without a doubt secured, or a glassed in pin, it's gonna work. Guess it's just preference. I don't think you are missing anything at all :-) Sean M23 "Dauntless"

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Re: M_Boats: Tow vehicle for M23
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 01 Mar '10

01 Mar '10

Hey Jeff, Sean here. Good to hear from ya. So, I'll chime in here with my 2 cents about towing a Montgomery 23. In the last 4 years we've towed Dauntless in the neighborhood of 10,000 miles. That included bringing her from Florida to Arizona (2500 miles), two trips to Anacortes, WA from Lake Havasu (3000 miles roundtrip each time) and probably somewhere between 13-15 trips to the Southern California coast (which is usually around a 500 to 700 mile roundtrip). Dauntless is probably a little heavier ballasted than Clarity...somewhere around 300-400lbs due to the ballast replacement project I had to do...but I would expect that they are close in all other regards. I took her to a local scale when she was all loaded up to go cruising. Everything pretty much loaded on board except that the water tank was dry. Believe it or not, with all the gear on board, boat and trailer weighed in right at 6700lbs. Like I said, I am ballasted heavier, but that would only account for lets say 400lbs, and I may carry a few hundred lbs more gear than you do, as a minimalist I am not, but still, I would bet that you are tipping the scales at least close to 6000lbs. When we purchased her I brought her from Florida to Lake Havasu with our Chevy Tahoe, which was not a comfortable ride. The Tahoe had plenty of power but the trailer was in charge and I was in fear of having to make a panic stop the entire way. Even with stainless disc brakes on a brand new trailer, stopping was a worry. Also, I think due to the short wheelbase of the truck, the Tahoe had to be constantly "driven", as it just wanted to hunt all over the place constantly. I was fortunate and found a great deal on a truck that is at the other end of the extreme and was able to acquire it. I would not say that a 1 ton diesel dually four door is necessary, but I would say "what a difference" when it comes to the fatigue factor of driving. This truck does not even react to the trailer and always feels fully in command, even in that dreaded "unexpected stopping scenario". You specified a 1/2 ton truck. My two cents is, yes, you could tow the boat with a half ton, but it's surely not the optimum and certainly not going to give you the best safety factor. The bigger suspension and brakes that you will get on a 3/4 ton will be of great value. The truck won't work so hard carrying the weight, it most likely would have a larger engine so will last longer due the fact that it's not going to work as hard, and most importantly, the truck will command the trailer and not the other way around. Another difference is most 3/4 ton trucks have larger tires sizes with heavier side walls that also will help with load stability and limit side to side movement. One BIG suggestion I would have is to shy away from a short-bed truck for towing. The longer the truck is, yes, the wider the turning radius, but the better it will track and resist hunting around due to influence of the trailer, especially in a crosswind. Another place the bigger engine will pay off is in downgrades. With our diesel, I can kick it out of overdrive (yes we can tow ,believe it or not, in OD as long as we are not climbing), and descend a 6% grade without using brake pedal to control the speed just by downshifting appropriately. A smaller engine is probably not going to give you that much back pressure and unless you are using electric brakes, which most of us are not, your only option is to keep applying the truck's breaks as you descend. We all know that you can only do so much of that before things start heating up. My suggestion, especially if one is financing a truck anyway, is if you are gonna tow something like this seriously (other than back and forth to the local ramp) spend a little extra each month, buy more truck. In the long run it'll last you longer, but most importantly, it will pay off hugely in safety and comfort. 4wd certainly is nice to have, but in 4 years we haven't had an issue except at one slippery local ramp. Other than that we've launched all over with no problems. We are a dually, though, so that may give us some extra traction. Like I said...just my 2 cents which is worth nothing more than anyone else's here and is mostly just opinion. :-) s PS...If you decide to tote a 85lb polar bear around with you, as we have...the four door cab is a must! ;-)

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Re: M_Boats: laddder and stern pulpit into
by ndorf＠surfbest.net 01 Mar '10

01 Mar '10

Hey Larry, I was out at Folsom Lake yesterday and the winds were ideal. 61 degrees was a little on the cool side after just coming back from Havasu, but still a nice day. The lake is up to 402' elevation and filling fast. No hazards to speak of and plenty of area to sail. My only gripe was the traffic jam at the Hobie Ramp. Too many impatient power boats jockeying for position. Once away from the ramp, plenty of room on the water. Get those projects moving along so you can get out on the water! If we can get Bert Felton and Jim Kirwan to come over from the Bay Area this spring and Brad Evans from Redding, maybe we can have an M15 rendezvous day with a BBQ to follow. What say you guys? Best, Neil

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Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
by ndorf＠surfbest.net 01 Mar '10

01 Mar '10

Chris, I don't think it's a dumb question at all. As you might have seen in my previous post, I have more or less the centerboard pin setup you describe in my '85 M15. Bob Eeg posted a reply indicating that there should be no problems with this approach. There are only three reasons I can think of for glassing-in the pin: 1) Aesthetics -- but consider that you only see the bolt when the boat is on the trailer anyway 2) Performance -- Whatever drag in the water the exposed parts of the pin may be causing. I would have no idea how to measure this but I suspect that a correct point-of-sail, crew positioning, and other factors are probably much more significant 3) Water intrusion -- This one I ponder. My centerboard pin is painted over with bottom paint. There's a tiny bit of rust showing. I'm not sure if any water got through the hole where the pin is, if the layer between keel housing sides and the centerboard--or the hole through the centerboard, is taking in water or is it epoxy-plugged. My presumably original centerboard has just a little swelling but raises and lowers with no problem so that's a good thing. Comments anyone? Neil Dorf M15 Roseville CA

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