November 2009 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: MONTY SITES and new member introduction
by ndorf＠surfbest.net 09 Nov '09

09 Nov '09

Juan, I agree with you that it would be nice to consolidate the idea sharing a little better. I started out on this list, but lately have been lurking on TrailerSailor. I think that as a group of Monty sailors we are missing an opportunity for idea sharing if some of us are only on mailman.xmission and others are on TrailerSailor, and who really wants or has time to post redundant messages? ALSO as a group of a larger community of trailer sailors, some of whom may own a Monty and a different boat--like maybe also a West Wight Potter, O'Day, or Vagabond--it makes it easier for other boat groups to "jump in" and share general ideas that they learned with their "other" boat, such as a rudder repair. And vice versa. This is why I think that we should rally behind the TrailerSailor board and make one strong community stronger there, at the same time not only bring Monty owners together in one group on the Monty board there but also together along with other trailer sailors. Neil Dorf M15 Roseville, CA

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Re: M_Boats: MONTY SITES
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 09 Nov '09

09 Nov '09

In repsonse to: "SEAN MULLIGAN DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ABOUT EXPANDING THE MISSION OF YOUR SITE? " :-) It's been a couple of days since I've been logged on here. I returned home from work to a flurry of personal emails about this message board, potential changes, and the yahoo groups board that I started a while back. After signing on here this morning now I realize why I got those emails. So... This discussion has been hashed out on here many times. I always hesitate at jumping in because there are many different options and viewpoints and as Dave noted , there have been , for lack of a better term, "politics" involved in the past. However, since I was specifically referred to, and asked to respond, I will. Please note, however, I fully understand and am aware that I am a relative new-comer to this list and my thoughts and opinions are strictly that, my thoughts and opinions. They are not meant to irritate anyone, change anyone's mind, indicate that they are the "answer", or that I even have the right to make or influence the decision of the group. I don't, nor do I want to. I love this group for what it is. We are hundreds of individuals with a common interest that brings us together. I have made so many good friends from the contacts I've made on this list and would never want to jeopardize that. So I'll give my 2 cents on the topic and you can take it for what it's worth, but please do not be offended in any way. This has been a very sensitive subject in the past. First, I want to say Thank You to the guys that got us all together in the first place. The existing sites have been maintained for a long time and served us well as a community. A couple years back there was talk about doing an Owner's Registry. A previous one that had been kept was no longer available and there seemed to be quite a bit of interest in making one. I had seen a function available on the Yahoo Groups pages and used by others to do something similar. So, I set one up. What I did not want to do, though, was to step on ANYONES toes, or to splinter our group. Yes, the Yahoo Groups pages do allow for message boards and picture uploads, however, we already had two websites that were handling both functions very well. So I created the Yahoo Group "Montyowners" and only enabled the database function so that we could utilize it to create a voluntary Owner's Registry. It has seen limited success with roughly 110 folks entering their boats in the database. Not to long after that the MSOGphotosite was going though changes. Bill who was running it began talking about shutting it down, or at least making it inactive for future updates. Then we had the Montgomeryowners.com creation. Some may remember and some may not, or may be new to the list, but there was some controversy here about some issues. There were vocal folks on both side of the isle of which I was one. I have good friends that agreed with me and good friends that didn't. As far as I know we are still good friends and just agree to disagree. The new site did and does still offer a much more modern layout. Some have chosen to use it, some have not. I really do not want to get into or re-hash that whole deal again. Suffice it to say, that it's success for, whatever reason, seems to be limited. And I make that statement based on nothing more than looking at the activity on that site vs this one. For me personally, there were some issues that caused me to make the choice for myself, and only for myself, not to utilize that site. Please make you own decision here. That is not being said to try to influence anyone in any way. There were some hard feelings left behind here between some folks and that certainly is not something that we want to re-live. We all come together because we enjoy the camaraderie and the common interest, certainly not to experience conflict and strife. Next came the Trailersailor board opening up a Montgomery page. I visited Trailersailor often before the Montgomery board was in place and like their format. I do use that forum and enjoy being able to post pictures in my post and more importantly, to be able to see others pictures. So, there are already a number of different venues that we have. Unfortunately, they are broke up into numerous different sites. Many many hours of time have been spent by the creators of each site putting together a venue for all of us to come together. Yes, there is always "the next big thing" as technology rolls along. It seems you no sooner set something up and it's obsolete, and the same goes for all these websites. I am certainly not against a one stop shop type of venue for all of us Monty folks and I like a lot of the advanced features like photo sharing just like most of you. However, I have the utmost respect for those guys/gals that have been serving us for so long with the sites we have and without their consent I am not willing to create a competing group that will do nothing other than splinter our group discussions. We all realize how awesome it is to get on here and pose a question and get such a wealth of knowledge back. That comes from the shear number of participants of the group all sharing. If we splinter out into multiple break away groups we lose that. My suggestion would be this. If there is a real desire to move this discussion board to a more modern venue then the discussion should go through the creator and moderator of the board and we all move as a group to the decided upon new venue or not at all. I believe that Keith Diehl has been maintaining this board for the group for many years. His email is on the main info page. I think that it would be appropriate for anyone with a proposal to move to a more modern venue to contact him and go from there. I feel that would be the respectful thing to do. Yes I have the Yahoo "MontyOwners" page. For now only the database function will be enabled for the reasons I have discussed. These are just my views and there is absolutely nothing that prevents someone from creating another yahoo page with all the features enabled if they so choose. If I was contacted by Keith and he indicated that he agrees with those that are looking to move the forum and he would like to move the forum also, then I would be happy to turn on the additional features of the Montyowners page. I would have no problem turning over admin rights to him as well if he wanted to remain the group moderator. I would also have no problem moving to the info a the Montyowners page to whatever other venue he and the group chose to go to. It is very possible that there may be a group member out there that has the ability and desire to build the "ultimate Monty page" and that would be great too. I just don't want to splinter the group up. So that's why the Yahoo Groups Montyowners page is restricted the way it is. I agree that a one-stop, more modern venue could be a really good thing for us. But out of respect for those that have been, and are serving us so well for so many years I don't want to change things unless they are onboard and we can make the move as a group. OK...maybe that was 5 cents worth! ;-) Please be gentle in your responses..I know from past experiences that this is such a touchy subject and hope I have not offended anyone. Sean M23 "Dauntless" Proud to be a member of the MSOG!

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Re: M_Boats: MONTY SITES
by John Ledger 09 Nov '09

09 Nov '09

For what's it worth. I rarely post but as a new owner (with my wife) of a '85 m-15, (still taking lessons) the posts are very helpful. Info, photos, chatter, periods of silence - No problem. John in Salem OR Slip Knot ________________________________ From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com on behalf of GILASAILR(a)aol.com Sent: Sun 11/8/2009 2:45 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: MONTY SITES In a message dated 11/8/2009 12:54:40 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, Nebwest2(a)aol.com writes: Hey guys...let me just throw this out there right away....someone put out there about "Paying Sean" to admin a website. I really appreciate the idea that I might be capable of that...but truth is, I doubt it! hahaha And in no way am I looking to be paid for anything with regard administering this or any other website. Again, I'm flattered for the comments, but please don't perceive any motivations about what I have posted as anything intended to get me into a paid or admin type position of this group. Thanks Sean _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Re: M_Boats: MONTY SITES
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 08 Nov '09

08 Nov '09

No worries Doug! Just wanted to make sure everyone was clear as far as my motivations...or lack thereof !! :-) Sean

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Re: M_Boats: MONTY SITES
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 08 Nov '09

08 Nov '09

Hey guys...let me just throw this out there right away....someone put out there about "Paying Sean" to admin a website. I really appreciate the idea that I might be capable of that...but truth is, I doubt it! hahaha And in no way am I looking to be paid for anything with regard administering this or any other website. Again, I'm flattered for the comments, but please don't perceive any motivations about what I have posted as anything intended to get me into a paid or admin type position of this group. Thanks Sean

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Re: M_Boats: MONTY SITES
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 08 Nov '09

08 Nov '09

Hi all, I too agree with Doug as well as the other comments. Thanx much for taking the time to share your thoughts. While it would be nice to have the "perfect Hess / Montgomery designs forum" location, I guess this has been tried before with little success. While limited in some ways, this is the most comfortable of the Montgomery design forums that I visit. I think it's worthy of discussion. For me, it's all win / win as I'm fairly new and the knowledge, information and "tricks" that I learn here are very valuable. (Our new sails came with a clew slug on the main instead of a bolt rope and I actually knew what it was). There are certainly many here that could design a purpose built forum. I would not be opposed to having a fee and paying someone like Sean or Dave to administrate. As long as I have you all available for communication, I would assist and support what ever the group comes up with. sal In a message dated 11/8/2009 11:18:25 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, tjenk(a)gte.net writes: Doug, I have to say I agree with all your points. Thanks for the input. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla #626 On Nov 8, 2009, at 10:02 AM, doug henning wrote: > Hi everyone, > I have rarely posted or replied on this listserve. However, I feel > akin to > you all because of our affection for our M-boats and the 'small is > bigger' > concept. So, I will chip in my two-bits for what it is worth: > > - I would not have purchased my boat if the MSOG site did not > exist; a > central repository of info on line is very important. Too bad > that it is > somewhat dormant - maybe we should all chip in to an annual pot, > and pay > someone keen, like Sean or Dave, to be the administrator... > Imagine what the > site would be like now, if it had been maintained and managed! > - I am always amazed and impressed that we have regular > contributions > from Jerry and Bob, and seriously comforted by the knowledge/ > expertise > available; I doubt that they have time to review/post to more > than one forum > as often as they do now. > - History and continuity seem increasingly taken for granted and > devalued > in favour of 'newer and better'; when it is blowing 30, I am > thankful for > Hess' and Montgomery's thought, integrity and effort, not my gps or > chartplotter or... > - Too many forums will likely lead to confusion, competition, > ultimately > exclusions, and the specter of 'politics' alluded to by Dave; > one forum, one > voice, say it here or don't say it at all... > - Just because there is a lull in the exchange rate on this > listserve > does not invalidate it; often the email are flying back and > forth without > much of value being said or accomplished either which is the yin > and yang of > discourse; if the phone doesn't ring or if it has some static, > does it need > to be disconnected? > - I enjoy this listserve, even though I seldom post, and many have > commented that it was years before they contributed; this is a > tribute to > having a solid and reliable venue, so lets support/improve what > we have > rather than fly off in all directions... > > Sorry to inhale so much of everyone's time, I can get carried away > with my > rants... > > Cheers, > Doug > Poco Cambio > M17 #39 > > > > > On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 1:13 AM, zimco <zimco(a)gci.net> wrote: > >> HI DAVE, >> >> THANKYOU FOR THE CONCISE INVENTORY OF MONTY SITES. >> >> I VERY MUCH AGREE WITH ABOUT FACEBOOK. >> >> I JOINED THE MONTGOMERYOWNERS.COM SITE SOME TIME BACK AND THEN >> FORGOT TO >> RETURN TO IT. I AM CURIOUS ABOUT THE "POLITICS" YOU REFER TO. >> >> >> I VISITED MSOG FOR YEARS BEFORE I GOT MY PRESENT M17. >> >> MIGHT IT BE POSSIBLE TO EXPAND THE ROLE OF THE >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Montyowners/ SITE? >> IT HAS POTENTIAL DO TO SO MUCH MORE THAN JUST BE A REGISTRY. >> >> >> IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WE HAVE AN AWKWARD WORK AROUND USING THE MAILMAN >> XMISSION AND SOME FOLKS POSTING PHOTOS TO TRAILERSAILOR OR >> FACEBOOK OR >> OTHER >> SITES. I HAVE BEEN SENDING MY PHOTOS DIRECTLY TO SOME OF THE M17 >> OWNERS >> WHO SEEMED TO HAVE AN INTEREST IN STRETCHING THE Q-BERTH FOR >> EXAMPLE. THAT >> MEANS THAT OTHERS WHO MIGHT BE INTERESTED GET LEFT OUT. A CENTRAL >> REPOSITORY WOULD BE USEFUL. >> >> SEAN MULLIGAN DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ABOUT EXPANDING THE >> MISSION OF YOUR >> SITE? >> >> LON >> >> SELKIE >> >> =========================== >> >> >> >> >> >> >> lon: >> >> at this time there are the following 'general' montgomery >> sailboat sites - >> >> http://www.msogphotosite.com >> http://www.msog.org >> >> neither of the above are 'actively updated'. msog.org 'hosts' the >> listproc >> (MAILMAN XMISSION) >> >> then there is - >> >> http://www.montgomeryowners.com >> >> IMO, this site has been 'panned' by the montgomery 'community'. even >> though >> it has a forum, blogs, photo hosting abilities, etc... it is the >> most >> 'advanced' site in it's abilities in the current www environment. >> >> there is a yahoo site - >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Montyowners/ >> >> the yahoo groups site hosts only the boat owners registry. the >> yahoogroups >> 'registry was created by sean mulligan (ie, M23 'dauntless') after a >> general >> 'polling' on the msog.org/MAILMAN-XMISSION list about the interest in >> another 'site' being created. >> >> there is also the trailorsailor site - >> >> http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/montgomery/index.cgi >> >> a BBS format. >> >> >> and now there is the facebook offereing. i haven't joined yet ... >> but i do >> use facebook in a 'limited' way. overall i don't find the >> facebook service >> all that 'central' to my communication needs (a bit to genNEXT, >> 'commercia', >> and 'spam-like' with all the top and side ad banners). >> >> >> when last 'polled' the majority 'preference' was for the continued >> use of >> the listproc. if you look at 'use numbers' number two is the >> trailersailor BBS. the msogphotosite and msog sites are >> 'historical' as >> neither is actively updated. the montgomeryowners site hasn't had >> a new >> post in many many months (many 'political' reasons for this). >> >> >> dave scobie >> M17 #375 - SWEET PEA >> visit SWEET PEA's www-site - http://www.m17-375.webs.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Monty Sites
by Joe Balla 08 Nov '09

08 Nov '09

I understand what Dave is saying about the preponderance of under utilized Monty sites, and apreciate Dave's support of the listserve which has surely benefited me during my restoration and clearly many others. However, I am finding myself in the category with Mark in that it would be very beneficial if we had a site that had the ability to archive photo albums of projects, and other informational items beneficial to the entire group. For example, when I moved the mainsheet traveler on my 1977 Seranita back to mid cockpit, boy...it would have been great to have the benefit of others who may have gone through the same process available with a click or two. The listserve was excellent with information, yet for the most part, I had to figure it out. And...throughout the project I snapped photos that surely could benefit someone...but I have no idea where I would put them on any of the available Monty sites and do not personally have the time nor expertise to set up my own webpage as I have noticed others doing. I am not certain if Facebook is the answer, nor do I have any understanding of the "politics" that have led to the near demise of the Hagen site which had loads of potential it appeared, but I sure would love to support a "go-to" type of site that could be a "one-stop" source for all things Monty! Just my humble opinion for what it's worth. Best, JB 1977 Montgomery 17 "Seranita" Sail No. 232 San Diego, CA

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Face Book
by Joe Balla 08 Nov '09

08 Nov '09

Mark... Great idea with the FaceBook Monty Group. I am a Facebook neophyte and joke with my kids that I am the only facebook member with no "friends", as I signed up and then never returned. However, I have observed through my wife's use and my kids that it is a fabulous networking tool. So...you have encouraged me to get involved in it. I have been craving a source for Montgomery owners to load photos of their boats and particularly project sharing and information and have felt the existing sites were somewhat lacking in that regard. I thought Frank Hagens site would be great for that, but it never seemed to get any velocity from most group users. So...very cool...I have signed up for the Montgomery Group on Facebook and am awaiting "confirmation". I am determined to make use of it for the benefit of all. Thanks again! Best, JB 1977 Montgomery 17 "Seranita" Sail Number 232 San Diego, CA

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Re: M_Boats: Is anyone there?
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 08 Nov '09

08 Nov '09

Hi Ernie, I think we're all still "out here". Probably handling the responsibility of tucking in the little yachts for the winter. Discussion about maintenance has its limitations. Like you, the Montgomery / Hess discussion group is always welcome input for me and more is better, as I'm still in a "learning about the boat" stage. Having Guru's about like Jerry Montgomery, Dave Scobie and many others add to the value of available information. sal In a message dated 11/5/2009 4:14:54 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, enichols(a)cheshire.net writes: Hello anyone, The last email I received was on Saturday, October 30. I know this is a quiet time of year, but I am getting suspicious. Is anyone there? Thank you for your help. Ernie Nichols _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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