March 2007 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

The value of a Montgomery
by Bobbie Mayer 23 Mar '07

23 Mar '07

Skip, I'm curious as to what kinds of things you (and other buyers of older boats) have had to do to bring the boat up to Ready to Sail condition. Were there any major things? It would just help me keep track of what I should be watching out for and maintaining in my older M15. Bobbie

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The value of a Montgomery
by Bobbie Mayer 23 Mar '07

23 Mar '07

I took a peak at the MSOG for sale list and found two M15's currently available: a 1983 for $3750 and a 1991 for $7900. Both are reportedly in excellent condition. I recall paying around $6000 including trailer for my M15 new in 1984. $4000 might be a fair price for my boat (if I were selling, and I'm not.) Not that any of that is relevant. I think there are just a lot of people looking for a deal, and people do not expect firm prices to be firm. The way around this is to list higher and have a firm price you have in mind to agree to. Makes people feel like they got a deal if they can bargain you down. A pet peeve I have is people (i.e., my siblings or other peers) saying things like, "I wish I could have afforded to buy a sailboat." Hey, people, I was broke for a long time after buying mine! I chose that way to spend my money, you chose other ways. My way, I ended up with something solid instead of just memories of a nice vacation or expensive shoes that wore out long ago. But it isn't like I won the lottery. Bobbie

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The value of a Montgomery
by Jslubliner＠aol.com 23 Mar '07

23 Mar '07

Jerry, et al, If you have a nice product, use it well, take decent care of it, the right person will come around who wants that product and will pay you a price that is mutually reasonable. It's a matter of finding the right person at the right time. I recently sold Coyote to a couple from Canada who did their homework. We exchanged e-mails, phone calls, I sent photographs, we talked for some length and they liked what was offered. Only when they were satisfied in the product was there a short discussion of price. It was short, as we agreed. These nice people then drove 2300 miles through winter blizzards diagonally across the US to Arizona where they were satisfied with the boat and took it home. I guess I don't understand. The boat is worth what it is to you. If you set a reasonable price as to what you feel your toy is worth, then wait patiently, it is usually done. If you just want to dump it, price low and be willing to let go. If you are more proud of it than should be reasonable, bring your lunch... John in Tucson former owner Coyote, FD 17 No. 69 ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

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M_Boats: The price of donuts & anything else you want, desire, covet, ( price is goin' up.)
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 23 Mar '07

23 Mar '07

Welcome Ken. All sailboats lovers are welcome. You will find we tend to show just a slight favoritism toward Lyle Hess designs. And the Wizard of Wrinkle boats - 'Dr'. Montgomery - designer of fine water conveyances hisself. GO M-17 #316a (game and squish asked for a HIN rubbing yesterday -kinda an annual event) M 7-11 ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

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The value of a Montgomery
by Thebaldyone2＠aol.com 23 Mar '07

23 Mar '07

With all due respect to you all. I am an M-17 want to be. Not in my budget right now! So I am building a Stevenson's Weekender. Learn, earn, move up. I have been looking for "a boat" for 5 years. Fall in love once every four or five months. Over the last two or three years I have noticed the price of older boats are near their original cost. Makes no difference who made it. Quality will hold value and I see that the Montgomery's and NorSea's are expensive and very hard to find used. Wonder why? I was fortunate to have seen a '78 Norsea in the yard in Vallejo, Ca. Fell in love with her too. Darn! When sailing starts again here in the Bay Area I hope to have a look at my First M-17. Getting tired of sailing other peoples boats. Better get going on my boat of the moment. Good winds and fair seas to us all, Ken ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

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Re: M_Boats: The value of a Montgomery
by Bob Eeg 22 Mar '07

22 Mar '07

Ashley.... I agree that people are always looking for a deal. Before we were producing the M_boats again, prices were somewhat lower. Those days are gone. The Montgomery 15 is a coveted prize. We can't build them fast enough. There is quite frankly, nothing in the world that is as strong, seaworthy, fast upwind and as good looking as a properly out-fitted Montgomery 15. We can thank Jerry for designing and producing this gem. (Thanks Jerry) I just built a couple with round bronze ports, blue hull...very salty looking. (I can email photos, just ask) As everyone knows, resin and fiberglass material, lead, stainless, sails and even cushions have gone up in cost. Resins that were 350-400 a drum are now $765 a drum. But these higher material costs affect all boat builders; we all have raised our prices over the last year. People are still buying regardless of costs. They simple want the best boat and they want a new one. I think the value of used M_Boats will also continue to climb. The days of used M_15s under 5 or 6 thousand are over. Everytime gas prices go up, we get more orders. I think people want a sailboat for low fuel costs and I've noticed powerboat builders are slow. Who wants to guzzle $ all that Gasoline...? The Montgomery 15 and 17 are great sailboats. Unlike those rowboats with sails that won't go upwind or tack in anything over 10 knots; these boats (we all know the name) are cheap and plentiful on the used boat market. So and uneducated sailor (who thinks all boats are alike) finds a brand x for $2900, he does get confused when a similar Monty 15 is listed at $7500. Lucky for me, I just bought 13,000 more pounds of lead.....back to work... Fair winds Bob Eeg -----Original Message----- >From: Sailfan1 <sailfan1(a)yahoo.com> >Sent: Mar 22, 2007 12:51 PM >To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com >Subject: M_Boats: The value of a Montgomery > >Somehow I'm thinking I won't find many friends here on this but wanted to put this out there just the same as I think it's a good topic. I received a rather rude email this morning asking me the rhetorical question of if I thought my boat was priced too high. I asked the sender if this was supposed to be an intelligent question or if they were just trying to make a point. I pretty much sent the following email. > >Perhaps you've heard the expression you get what you pay for? > >It always amazes me how intelligent people fancy themselves when it comes to these boats. On the one hand there is almost a snobbery in regard to how much better they are than other boats of their size yet when they look for a used boat (buyers and voyeurs alike) they feel the price should be on par with the "inferior" (not my word) brand. Other brands in this size category sell in the $5k+ price range so why wouldn't good Monty's sell for more if they are indeed as most will say, a better built boat? > >I recall a conversation I once had with the current builder of Montgomery's and in the discussion I off-handedly referred to the other most commonly associated brand, as being the same caliber of boat. At that point I thought I was being reprimanded by my own dad. I was duly and steadfastly reminded that Montgomery's were in no way in the same league or of the same caliber and that "these were real sailing boats not rowboats with sails". > >My observation is people in the Montgomery used market sit around hoping a boat comes up for sale, preferably by some owner that can be taken advantage of who might not know the true market value, or they settle for a boat in rough and neglected shape then pat themselves on the back they only paid $5k but with a season of work ahead of them to make repairs and pretty them up. > >Regardless that very good ones are out there and the trailers are in good working order, but that the price reflects the level of quality. > >People even send emails in this very forum when they discover an M15 for sale at $5k or under eagerly wanting to share the find. As though gold bars have just been discovered at 50% off. > >I have had a couple of people contact me, clearly knowing what I have listed the boat for, and yet only after exchanging some emails they say, oh it's a bit high for my budget despite their seeing the pictures and complementing how beautiful the condition my boat is in. > >These people are silly in my opinion and frankly I think are only fishing to see if there's a sucker on the line. You either want a good quality used M15 or you don't. Your choice is to either buy a new one for $14k all in - and deal with the wait time - or buy an older, most likely abused or neglected 80's version, complete with steel shot keel, etc, for about $5k. As one person who contacted me put it, people usually sell boats when they aren't using them anymore. Most commonly this is correct and it more often translates to a boat that has indeed been left sitting outside in the weather to rot before taking the time to try and sell it. > >An alternative is a well found 1991 boat, well cared for, garaged stored, bells and whistles such as lead ballast which has been preferred, extra rigging, and in ready to sail shape for a fair asking price IMHO. Yet in this niche market of buyers for these fine little yachts, there seems to have become an almost ignorant concept of what should be paid. > >To answer the lame question my answer is obviously no. And since I am in no hurry to sell my boat I can afford to wait until an intelligent and reasonable new owner comes along. And frankly that's the kind of individual I'd prefer to sell the boat to anyway. If I even sell it at all. > >I'm sure there will be several armchair replies to this email and most will more than likely slam me for having this opinion. But at the end of the day, the answer to the question of what is the true value of a Montgomery 15, is quite simply, whatever the right buyer is willing to pay. > >Ashley >M15 #478 > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Finding fabulous fares is fun. >Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. >http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 > >_______________________________________________ >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Boat Builder

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The value of a Montgomery
by Sailfan1 22 Mar '07

22 Mar '07

Somehow I'm thinking I won't find many friends here on this but wanted to put this out there just the same as I think it's a good topic. I received a rather rude email this morning asking me the rhetorical question of if I thought my boat was priced too high. I asked the sender if this was supposed to be an intelligent question or if they were just trying to make a point. I pretty much sent the following email. Perhaps you've heard the expression you get what you pay for? It always amazes me how intelligent people fancy themselves when it comes to these boats. On the one hand there is almost a snobbery in regard to how much better they are than other boats of their size yet when they look for a used boat (buyers and voyeurs alike) they feel the price should be on par with the "inferior" (not my word) brand. Other brands in this size category sell in the $5k+ price range so why wouldn't good Monty's sell for more if they are indeed as most will say, a better built boat? I recall a conversation I once had with the current builder of Montgomery's and in the discussion I off-handedly referred to the other most commonly associated brand, as being the same caliber of boat. At that point I thought I was being reprimanded by my own dad. I was duly and steadfastly reminded that Montgomery's were in no way in the same league or of the same caliber and that "these were real sailing boats not rowboats with sails". My observation is people in the Montgomery used market sit around hoping a boat comes up for sale, preferably by some owner that can be taken advantage of who might not know the true market value, or they settle for a boat in rough and neglected shape then pat themselves on the back they only paid $5k but with a season of work ahead of them to make repairs and pretty them up. Regardless that very good ones are out there and the trailers are in good working order, but that the price reflects the level of quality. People even send emails in this very forum when they discover an M15 for sale at $5k or under eagerly wanting to share the find. As though gold bars have just been discovered at 50% off. I have had a couple of people contact me, clearly knowing what I have listed the boat for, and yet only after exchanging some emails they say, oh it's a bit high for my budget despite their seeing the pictures and complementing how beautiful the condition my boat is in. These people are silly in my opinion and frankly I think are only fishing to see if there's a sucker on the line. You either want a good quality used M15 or you don't. Your choice is to either buy a new one for $14k all in - and deal with the wait time - or buy an older, most likely abused or neglected 80's version, complete with steel shot keel, etc, for about $5k. As one person who contacted me put it, people usually sell boats when they aren't using them anymore. Most commonly this is correct and it more often translates to a boat that has indeed been left sitting outside in the weather to rot before taking the time to try and sell it. An alternative is a well found 1991 boat, well cared for, garaged stored, bells and whistles such as lead ballast which has been preferred, extra rigging, and in ready to sail shape for a fair asking price IMHO. Yet in this niche market of buyers for these fine little yachts, there seems to have become an almost ignorant concept of what should be paid. To answer the lame question my answer is obviously no. And since I am in no hurry to sell my boat I can afford to wait until an intelligent and reasonable new owner comes along. And frankly that's the kind of individual I'd prefer to sell the boat to anyway. If I even sell it at all. I'm sure there will be several armchair replies to this email and most will more than likely slam me for having this opinion. But at the end of the day, the answer to the question of what is the true value of a Montgomery 15, is quite simply, whatever the right buyer is willing to pay. Ashley M15 #478 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097

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M8 SF Bay area $995
by Bobbie Mayer 19 Mar '07

19 Mar '07

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/296132692.html Looks very nice. I decided I can't cartop a boat to Washington (since I have a Thule box already) so will only buy here if it has a trailer, but this one looks like a good deal. (I really just need a dinghy but having it sail would be a perk.) Bobbie

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Re: M_Boats: re: Remote gas tank for Honda 2hp
by chbenneck＠juno.com 19 Mar '07

19 Mar '07

Hi gang, Another idea I stole from somewhere, to refuel the HONDA 2 HP while underway: Instead of trying to pour from a spare 1 gallon fuel tank, while hanging over the stern in a seaway, the source for my "light bulb" event said, reuse quart oil containers as small spare fuel containers. If you fill them with gasoline, they are easy to stow; don't leak; and are very easy to open and pour into the HONDA fuel tank. Aiming and juggling flow is unnecessary. Just stick oil container bottle neck into the HONDA tank opening, and let the oil bottle drain. You now know you have added one quart. There is no chance of spillage. I found it to be a great solution to the refueling problem. Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO

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Re: M_Boats: re: Remote gas tank for Honda 2hp
by chbenneck＠juno.com 19 Mar '07

19 Mar '07

Hi gang, Another idea I stole from somewhere, to refuel the HONDA 2 HP while underway: Instead of trying to pour from a spare 1 gallon fuel tank, while hanging over the stern in a seaway, the source for my "light bulb" event said, reuse quart oil containers as small spare fuel containers. If you fill them with gasoline, they are easy to stow; don't leak; and are very easy to open and pour into the HONDA fuel tank. Aiming and juggling flow is unnecessary. Just stick oil container bottle neck into the HONDA tank opening, and let the oil bottle drain. You now know you have added one quart. There is no chance of spillage. I found it to be a great solution to the refueling problem. Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO

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