January 2005 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Technochricy...
by David Thomason 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

Sound's like fun, Bill. Don't worry about your GPS telling everyone where you are, if your vehicle isn't already doing so (GM's On-Star continuously updates them where you are, but they claim it isn't being saved to disk... right, I believe everything GM tells me!), then your cell-phone is telling the nearest tower "here I am..." (to save the day??). Anyway, in the early 1980's the Army commissioned a study to find out what it would take to build a network to track an individuals movements. The results of the study indicated the Army should relax because the system was already in place, it's called ATM's and Credit Card purchases. Doesn't bother me in the least, but folks should be aware that it's happening. One thing you might want to be a bit paranoid about, however, are RFID devices (Radio Frequency ID), which are minuscule little chips that cost about a dime, they are passive devices, meaning that they need to be scanned, but they can be placed unnoticed in your clothing by Wally World. Unbelievable to me, there are nightclubs that are now inserting them under their willing patrons skin, which allows them access to the VIP room without having to bother swiping a credit card... Wow, am I off topic!

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buying sight unseen
by bo Swartwout 05 Jan '05

05 Jan '05

Ernie, After researching this site intensively, I decided to buy an M-15. I have owned a Macgregor 26, Catalina 22, two Potter 15's and one P-19. The Monty is an entirely different animal with almost as much space below as the P-19 (more room in v-berth, less for sitting). After deciding that I wanted the Montgomery, I drove 3,600 miles round trip to get her,sight unseen,- Cape Cod to little Rock, Ark. Go for it! Bo

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Re: M_Boats: Buying Sight Unseen
by LUDLOWD2＠aol.com 05 Jan '05

05 Jan '05

Earnie: I Agree with Bill. Check the MSOG list for folks near you, give them a call and arrange a trip if you want to see their boat. Or you could take advantage of one of those cheap Delta tickets and fly to Mobile and I could take you out. There's a M-17 across the bay and maybe we could arrange a ride there also. I bought Sweet Dream sight unseen and do not regret it. A beautiful little sailboat, that more than met my requirements. It trails and sets up easily, a dream to tow and launch, easy to singlehand (now that I've added a few "extra"s) and very seaworthy and stable. The cockpit is comfortabe for two and is self bailing. The workmanship was great. If you are thinking about ordering, don't wait til the "spring rush". I waited and got at the end of the list, costing me an extra month of sailing season. Good luck Don Ludlow M-15 # 620 Sweet Dream

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Re: M_Boats: Buying Sight Unseen
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 05 Jan '05

05 Jan '05

Hi Ernie & Chris, Let me butt (or is that but?) in here and suggest that you look on the www.MSOG.org site for owners of M-15's "close" to you. And that's relative... If I were spending a few hundred close may be within 10 miles Spending more will allow me more distance. If I were spending thousands, I may go hundreds of miles (an adventure) just to be sure and to know I'm making an informed (not emotional) decision. With all that in mind, there is no one with the M-15 anywhere close to you... How far is Mass from New Hampshire... Looks like a ways. Well anyway... that's a thought. The other alternative is to find someone... somewhat local and test sail the one I know about, the Potter 15. I imagine you'll find one (lots of them), but I also imagine you'll not find many who will take you on a test sail. Something about the ballance of the boat... If that doesn't have you leaning Monty... Wait until you look inside the P-15. Not really a design to overnight in... Or, what if you do get to sail one... Order the Monty if you can afford it... or buy a Potter if you have to... Bill M-17 #496 "Tipperary" San Francisco (cold, wet and rainy... for way to long... enough already) And if guys do end up with Montgomery boats... Polish her up and clear out the clutter. Take about 20 high resolution pictures and send them to me and we'll put an album together for the Mongomery Owners Photo Site. www.MSOG.funtigo.com

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RE: M_Boats: M15 Electrical System
by RandyG 04 Jan '05

04 Jan '05

Rick, Will do. Will take some pictures of our electrical system and post them. Should have our digital camera back in a day or so. The Styrofoam, and battery box w/battery, are the only things in our under the v-berth storage area. The battery box is not mounted to anything but is held in place by all the Styrofoam surrounding it. The wood access cover into this area is secured with 4 screws, one in each corner. So in effect the battery is secure. Yes, we have a 4-wire electrical connector at the base of the mast, and also a coax connector. The coax is a barrel connector through the deck, accepting a PL-259 coax connector both on the inside and on the outside. Both the coax and a 4-wire cable feed up inside the mast. I have not noticed or experienced the wires slapping inside the mast as some have reported. Not sure why, it makes since that loose wires would slap around inside the mast with boat motion. Yes, once when backing up the trailer I broke the mast head navigational light. The replacement lens was a bit pricy! The mast sticks out past the end of our boat on the stern (mast even with the tongue on the front) and the light was the first thing to make contact when backing up. I used to remove the VHF antenna whip each time when trailering but have since left if connected. The whip is very flexible and now is what sticks out furthest when backing up. If it does touch something is bends easily and usually makes some kind of noise. The good thing is that it springs right back without damage. Other than backing up when trailering I see no disadvantage to having the nav lights on the mast and several advantages with respect to wiring. The factory 4-wire electrical connector is not mounted to the hull. There is a pig-tail that sticks trough the hull with about 6 inches of wire and then the connector. Also several inches of wire and then the connector at the mast end of the connection; same with mast-end of VHF cable. I can leave the wires connected when raising or lowering the mast. Maybe some wind drag from the light at the top of the mast? I'm not skilled enough of a sailor to notice. Having the mast head VHF antenna sure give you some good transmit and receive range! I did have a Windex on top the mast and broke it a couple of times. I've tried other wind indicator methods but plan to go back to a mast head indicator again this season. I think I am going to try one of those red arrow looking wind vanes, I think they may be more rugged than the windex. Randy Graves M-15 # 407 ________________________________ From: montgomery_boats-bounces+randyg=cite.nic.edu(a)mailman.xmission.com on behalf of Rick Langer Sent: Tue 1/4/2005 6:30 AM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: M15 Electrical System Randy and Steve, thanks for the replies. Randy, a picture would be great, if you get a chance. So in your boat, you don't store anything in the v-berth locker other than the battery? Is the battery box attached to the hull? I was planning on not wiring the mast to keep it's stepping light and simple. However, if one considers the wiring required to connect red and green nav, steaming and stern lights, running a few wires up the mast would be far less complicated. So, it sounds like you have at least three electrical wires and a coaxial cable going up your mast? Is the hardware at the top of the mast any problem when stepping it? I'm concerned with weight, but also I have concerns about damaging the components if I bump them. At one point I was thinking of putting a windex on top of the mast, but nixed it because I know I would end up bending it out of shape when if got bumped. I've done it before. If you do take some pictures, would you give me a shot of the on deck connectors for electrical and coax? Thanks, Rick Langer > Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 14:22:04 -0800 > From: "RandyG" <RandyG(a)cite.nic.edu> > Subject: RE: M_Boats: M15 Electrical System > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Message-ID: > <81FBC76D3DB65A439B1BE673340C71BA019E20(a)flynn.cite.nic.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Rick, > > Our M-15 #407 came new with the electrical package. The battery is a group 24 and is mounted in a battery box directly below the opening hatch under the V-berth. Our below V-berth cavity still has the Styrofoam floatation, the battery box is surrounded by the Styrofoam and is literally directly below the wood access cover. > > The electrical panel contains several switches mounted vertically in a row (5 switches I believe) and is mounted on the flat vertical surface of the exterior of the port interior locker. If you were sitting on the porta-potty, you could kick the switch panel with your right foot. The switches have teak trim and a piece of Plexiglas that slides down in front of them to protect them. Not all the switches are used, and several are labeled with white on black engraved labels. > > The wiring from the battery to the switch panel runs from under the V-berth, through a hole drilled into the port interior locker, to the switch panel. The wiring from the switch panel to the mast head lights runs up the interior port-side - angles across near the port window - then across the cabin top over to under the mast tabernacle - exits the interior just in front of the mast. The wires are held in place with a series of plastic wire/cable clamps, secured to the bottom side of deck hardware. We added spiral wrapping around the wires to keep them bundled nicely. > > A picture would be worth a thousand words. Our digital camera will be home later this week and I could send pictures if they would help. > > On our M-15 there are no interior lights. The only thing powered by the battery is our mast head Navigational lights, the internal compass light, and we added a VHF radio. We also added a cigarette lighter type plug for other accessories. > > Randy Graves > Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 18:17:32 EST > From: IDCLLC(a)aol.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Electrical System > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Message-ID: <99.54ff43c8.2f0b2c8c(a)aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > . > Rick, I've been using a U-1 West Marine AGM battery on our Potter for the > last three years. It's been great, 30 amps for 30# of weight. We use it with > our trolling motor, mostly for launching and retrieval, very convenient. Our > setup is also useful for motorsailing in light air at low power, such as 3 on a > scale of 1-5. In calm water it yields about 2 knots. > > Cheers > > Steve Tyree > P-15 #2098 "Amy Ann" > Piragua "Twig" > Thimble "Thimble" _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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M15 Electrical System
by Rick Langer 04 Jan '05

04 Jan '05

Randy and Steve, thanks for the replies. Randy, a picture would be great, if you get a chance. So in your boat, you don't store anything in the v-berth locker other than the battery? Is the battery box attached to the hull? I was planning on not wiring the mast to keep it's stepping light and simple. However, if one considers the wiring required to connect red and green nav, steaming and stern lights, running a few wires up the mast would be far less complicated. So, it sounds like you have at least three electrical wires and a coaxial cable going up your mast? Is the hardware at the top of the mast any problem when stepping it? I'm concerned with weight, but also I have concerns about damaging the components if I bump them. At one point I was thinking of putting a windex on top of the mast, but nixed it because I know I would end up bending it out of shape when if got bumped. I've done it before. If you do take some pictures, would you give me a shot of the on deck connectors for electrical and coax? Thanks, Rick Langer > Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 14:22:04 -0800 > From: "RandyG" <RandyG(a)cite.nic.edu> > Subject: RE: M_Boats: M15 Electrical System > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Message-ID: > <81FBC76D3DB65A439B1BE673340C71BA019E20(a)flynn.cite.nic.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Rick, > > Our M-15 #407 came new with the electrical package. The battery is a group 24 and is mounted in a battery box directly below the opening hatch under the V-berth. Our below V-berth cavity still has the Styrofoam floatation, the battery box is surrounded by the Styrofoam and is literally directly below the wood access cover. > > The electrical panel contains several switches mounted vertically in a row (5 switches I believe) and is mounted on the flat vertical surface of the exterior of the port interior locker. If you were sitting on the porta-potty, you could kick the switch panel with your right foot. The switches have teak trim and a piece of Plexiglas that slides down in front of them to protect them. Not all the switches are used, and several are labeled with white on black engraved labels. > > The wiring from the battery to the switch panel runs from under the V-berth, through a hole drilled into the port interior locker, to the switch panel. The wiring from the switch panel to the mast head lights runs up the interior port-side - angles across near the port window - then across the cabin top over to under the mast tabernacle - exits the interior just in front of the mast. The wires are held in place with a series of plastic wire/cable clamps, secured to the bottom side of deck hardware. We added spiral wrapping around the wires to keep them bundled nicely. > > A picture would be worth a thousand words. Our digital camera will be home later this week and I could send pictures if they would help. > > On our M-15 there are no interior lights. The only thing powered by the battery is our mast head Navigational lights, the internal compass light, and we added a VHF radio. We also added a cigarette lighter type plug for other accessories. > > Randy Graves > Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 18:17:32 EST > From: IDCLLC(a)aol.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Electrical System > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Message-ID: <99.54ff43c8.2f0b2c8c(a)aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > . > Rick, I've been using a U-1 West Marine AGM battery on our Potter for the > last three years. It's been great, 30 amps for 30# of weight. We use it with > our trolling motor, mostly for launching and retrieval, very convenient. Our > setup is also useful for motorsailing in light air at low power, such as 3 on a > scale of 1-5. In calm water it yields about 2 knots. > > Cheers > > Steve Tyree > P-15 #2098 "Amy Ann" > Piragua "Twig" > Thimble "Thimble"

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MSOG Photo Site Update...
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 04 Jan '05

04 Jan '05

Happy New Year All... Perry Bolin & I have been conspiring to put together an album of his M-17 "Windsong." She's almost 30 and absolutely gorgeous. I have a promise of more photos so this one is a work in progress. www.MSOG.funtigo.com Hey... This Photo Site is for newer boats also... Send me a picture!!! (of the boat) Bill

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Re: M_Boats: M15 Electrical System
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 03 Jan '05

03 Jan '05

In a message dated 1/3/2005 2:51:04 PM Central Standard Time, farreach(a)optonline.net writes: Second, is it possible to put to much weight forward in an M15? The smallest marine deep cycle battery (80 amps) seems to weigh about 50 pounds. I was thinking of putting the battery in the foremost locker just forward of the ballast bulge. I was planning on keeping my second anchor, chain and rode, 30-40 pounds, in that locker also. Maybe the answer to my first question will solve this issue. Rick, I've been using a U-1 West Marine AGM battery on our Potter for the last three years. It's been great, 30 amps for 30# of weight. We use it with our trolling motor, mostly for launching and retrieval, very convenient. Our setup is also useful for motorsailing in light air at low power, such as 3 on a scale of 1-5. In calm water it yields about 2 knots. Cheers Steve Tyree P-15 #2098 "Amy Ann" Piragua "Twig" Thimble "Thimble"

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RE: M_Boats: M15 Electrical System
by RandyG 03 Jan '05

03 Jan '05

Rick, Our M-15 #407 came new with the electrical package. The battery is a group 24 and is mounted in a battery box directly below the opening hatch under the V-berth. Our below V-berth cavity still has the Styrofoam floatation, the battery box is surrounded by the Styrofoam and is literally directly below the wood access cover. The electrical panel contains several switches mounted vertically in a row (5 switches I believe) and is mounted on the flat vertical surface of the exterior of the port interior locker. If you were sitting on the porta-potty, you could kick the switch panel with your right foot. The switches have teak trim and a piece of Plexiglas that slides down in front of them to protect them. Not all the switches are used, and several are labeled with white on black engraved labels. The wiring from the battery to the switch panel runs from under the V-berth, through a hole drilled into the port interior locker, to the switch panel. The wiring from the switch panel to the mast head lights runs up the interior port-side - angles across near the port window - then across the cabin top over to under the mast tabernacle - exits the interior just in front of the mast. The wires are held in place with a series of plastic wire/cable clamps, secured to the bottom side of deck hardware. We added spiral wrapping around the wires to keep them bundled nicely. A picture would be worth a thousand words. Our digital camera will be home later this week and I could send pictures if they would help. On our M-15 there are no interior lights. The only thing powered by the battery is our mast head Navigational lights, the internal compass light, and we added a VHF radio. We also added a cigarette lighter type plug for other accessories. Randy Graves ________________________________ From: montgomery_boats-bounces+randyg=cite.nic.edu(a)mailman.xmission.com on behalf of Rick Langer Sent: Mon 1/3/2005 12:44 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: M15 Electrical System I'm still trying to figure out the proposed electrical system in my boat, so I had a couple of questions for the gang. First, can someone tell me the stock layout of the components in an M15, i.e.. battery, switch panel, wire buss? Also, any interior lights, electronics or other components would be helpful. Second, is it possible to put to much weight forward in an M15? The smallest marine deep cycle battery (80 amps) seems to weigh about 50 pounds. I was thinking of putting the battery in the foremost locker just forward of the ballast bulge. I was planning on keeping my second anchor, chain and rode, 30-40 pounds, in that locker also. Maybe the answer to my first question will solve this issue. Thanks, Rick Langer M15 #337 _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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M15 Electrical System
by Rick Langer 03 Jan '05

03 Jan '05

I'm still trying to figure out the proposed electrical system in my boat, so I had a couple of questions for the gang. First, can someone tell me the stock layout of the components in an M15, i.e.. battery, switch panel, wire buss? Also, any interior lights, electronics or other components would be helpful. Second, is it possible to put to much weight forward in an M15? The smallest marine deep cycle battery (80 amps) seems to weigh about 50 pounds. I was thinking of putting the battery in the foremost locker just forward of the ballast bulge. I was planning on keeping my second anchor, chain and rode, 30-40 pounds, in that locker also. Maybe the answer to my first question will solve this issue. Thanks, Rick Langer M15 #337

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