Re: [Glencook-fans] Copy of Deadly Quicksilver Lies for Sale
I am finally holding my copy of Gilded Latten Bones. Nobody tell me what happens!
I am reading it and am up to page 105. Dipi -----Original Message----- From: glencook-fans-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:glencook-fans-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Hollie Sebastian Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 5:01 PM To: glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] Copy of Deadly Quicksilver Lies for Sale I am finally holding my copy of Gilded Latten Bones. Nobody tell me what happens! _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
Oh, and while we are on a Garrett love-in, apparently there will be a Garrett, PI short story in a George RR Martin edited anthology, Down These Strange Streets, probably out in 2011. ... SHADOW THIEVES, by Glen Cook (a Garrett story) ... In case that is news to anyone. ---- Ed Del Pilar Soto <paquico@nc.rr.com> wrote:
I am reading it and am up to page 105. Dipi
-----Original Message----- From: glencook-fans-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:glencook-fans-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Hollie Sebastian Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 5:01 PM To: glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] Copy of Deadly Quicksilver Lies for Sale
I am finally holding my copy of Gilded Latten Bones. Nobody tell me what happens!
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The Spanish Inquisition was a complete surprise. I never expected that. Bones is now only 3 books down on the To Read List. --- On Sun, 11/7/10, Hollie Sebastian <sebastianhollie@yahoo.ca> wrote:
From: Hollie Sebastian <sebastianhollie@yahoo.ca> Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] Copy of Deadly Quicksilver Lies for Sale To: glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com Date: Sunday, November 7, 2010, 7:00 PM I am finally holding my copy of Gilded Latten Bones. Nobody tell me what happens!
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I'm 156 pages in, and, without giving too much away, Garrett is busy interacting with people. They are both new characters, and old friends/acquaintances. The Dead Man is probing minds, Dean is cooking, and Pular Singe is around. I hope that wasn't too spoilerific ;-) On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 7:54 AM, Matt Cutter <thorr_kan@yahoo.com> wrote:
The Spanish Inquisition was a complete surprise. I never expected that.
Bones is now only 3 books down on the To Read List.
--- On Sun, 11/7/10, Hollie Sebastian <sebastianhollie@yahoo.ca> wrote:
From: Hollie Sebastian <sebastianhollie@yahoo.ca> Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] Copy of Deadly Quicksilver Lies for Sale To: glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com Date: Sunday, November 7, 2010, 7:00 PM I am finally holding my copy of Gilded Latten Bones. Nobody tell me what happens!
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Anyone else finished and ready to have the [spoilers!] discussion?
I'll be done soon, I have between a third and a quarter left. So whenever the spoilers start, I'll avoid them at first, if necessary, but will be ready soon to jump in. On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Jamie Crawford <crawford_3@hotmail.com>wrote:
Anyone else finished and ready to have the [spoilers!] discussion?
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I'm finished and ready, but as the new guy I might let someone else tee off with opening thoughts and so on. ---- Marc Rikmenspoel <marcrik@gmail.com> wrote:
I'll be done soon, I have between a third and a quarter left. So whenever the spoilers start, I'll avoid them at first, if necessary, but will be ready soon to jump in.
On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Jamie Crawford <crawford_3@hotmail.com>wrote:
Anyone else finished and ready to have the [spoilers!] discussion?
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Okay, let the spoiler discussion begin, I'll have some blank space, then I'll start it, stay out if you don't want to know ;-) So, who else was surprised that Furious Tide of Light was more than just temptation in this book? That's all I expected, and it was a small shock that Garrett gave in and started a relationship with her. I have to admit, her scenes in Cruel Zinc Melodies stuck with me more than any others, so I was pleased to see her increased role. But it wasn't expected at all, by me. Was your experience different? On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 9:48 PM, jmiddle1@bigpond.net.au < jmiddle1@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
I'm finished and ready, but as the new guy I might let someone else tee off with opening thoughts and so on.
---- Marc Rikmenspoel <marcrik@gmail.com> wrote:
I'll be done soon, I have between a third and a quarter left. So whenever the spoilers start, I'll avoid them at first, if necessary, but will be ready soon to jump in.
On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Jamie Crawford <crawford_3@hotmail.com wrote:
Anyone else finished and ready to have the [spoilers!] discussion?
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In Response to the earlier Question, about ST. Louis, and possible Signings. When we were selling books at Windycon, I asked Glen for you if he had any events coming up down there, and he suggested catching him at a convention where he's bookselling, possibly Archon: http://www.archonstl.org/35/ Usually the con has a list of Dealers attending listed on their website prior to the start of the con, so you could confirm in advance that way that he would be attending. 1 day memberships are often available for conventions if you don't want to do the whole thing. The next date isn't until next fall. He's happy to sign books for people at his table in dealer's room. So there you are, I asked :-) Regards Richard
Thank you, Richard. I appreciate you going the extra mile to ask him in person. -- Scott On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 3:40 AM, Rich W <cosmicdolphin@comcast.net> wrote:
In Response to the earlier Question, about ST. Louis, and possible Signings. When we were selling books at Windycon, I asked Glen for you if he had any events coming up down there, and he suggested catching him at a convention where he's bookselling, possibly Archon:
Usually the con has a list of Dealers attending listed on their website prior to the start of the con, so you could confirm in advance that way that he would be attending. 1 day memberships are often available for conventions if you don't want to do the whole thing. The next date isn't until next fall.
He's happy to sign books for people at his table in dealer's room.
So there you are, I asked :-)
Regards
Richard
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SPOILERS BELOW YOU ARE WARNED / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / Not "surprised" - but not "oh yeah, saw it coming" either. I feel like I should be surprised that Tinnie was dumped (softly, but still dumped). But, I never really liked Tinnie - I thought Garrett should have ended up with Maya. It was a little weird that no one in the household seemed to like Tinnie...but maybe that was why she and Garrett were not living there (I did find that surprising. Guy has a house, why not live in it?) One other thing I noticed, when Dean and Garrett were having the discussion over Furious Tide of Light's given name - she comes in and offers it up, but does not ask Garrett HIS first name. Michele
So, who else was surprised that Furious Tide of Light was more than just temptation in this book? That's all I expected, and it was a small shock that Garrett gave in and started a relationship with her. I have to admit, her scenes in Cruel Zinc Melodies stuck with me more than any others, so I was pleased to see her increased role. But it wasn't expected at all, by me. Was your experience different?
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Michele Riccio <mishka_30@yahoo.com> wrote:
SPOILERS BELOW YOU ARE WARNED
/ / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / /
Not "surprised" - but not "oh yeah, saw it coming" either.
I feel like I should be surprised that Tinnie was dumped (softly, but still dumped). But, I never really liked Tinnie - I thought Garrett should have ended up with Maya. It was a little weird that no one in the household seemed to like Tinnie...but maybe that was why she and Garrett were not living there (I did find that surprising. Guy has a house, why not live in it?)
I was very surprised Tinnie was so unceremoniously dumped. Worse, she was dumped after she made a valiant effort at redefining herself to be a better person and a better girlfriend. I found Garrett's defection from her despicable--for reasons of sex, it would seem. He's never been quite that shallow before: Yes, he'll go with a girl for reasons of sex, but he's never before hurt anyone so callously for that reason. I really think we were owed a show-down scene; but that's promised for the future, I suppose. That's of a piece with so bloody much of the action being off-stage. I found that very unsatisfying. And who is that squid guy--an undead member of the sorcerer's family? Who? Why? Way too many loose ends in this book. I was thoroughly unsatisfied by it. One of the worst in the series. Steve/Stacey
SPOILERS What I found interesting about GLB was all the questions it raised about the past - and the present. Was FTL subtly magicking everyone - even the Dead Man - into accepting her? Has the Dead Man smoothed off some of Garrett's edges in the past? What is Singe doing with all that paper, and is she pregnant to the ratman who is always around? Is Chodo still alive - there was a reference to Penny Dreadful that her father *had been* Chodo Contague. I don't mind that all this stuff is floating around without resolution in GLB - it reminds me of how Patrick O'Brien wrote the Master and Commander series. I will mind though if it never gets cleared up! Lastly, re Tinnie - you might say she had her chance, got Garrett to move in with her, at her place, but never got a ring or pushed the relationship along. Remember the kids conversation that FTL had with Garrett that floored him? There are some serious Tinnie issues to be resolved yet. I can see her as a villian in a book or so's time. ---- Steven Harris <harrissg@slu.edu> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Michele Riccio <mishka_30@yahoo.com> wrote:
SPOILERS BELOW YOU ARE WARNED
/ / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / /
Not "surprised" - but not "oh yeah, saw it coming" either.
I feel like I should be surprised that Tinnie was dumped (softly, but still dumped). But, I never really liked Tinnie - I thought Garrett should have ended up with Maya. It was a little weird that no one in the household seemed to like Tinnie...but maybe that was why she and Garrett were not living there (I did find that surprising. Guy has a house, why not live in it?)
I was very surprised Tinnie was so unceremoniously dumped. Worse, she was dumped after she made a valiant effort at redefining herself to be a better person and a better girlfriend. I found Garrett's defection from her despicable--for reasons of sex, it would seem. He's never been quite that shallow before: Yes, he'll go with a girl for reasons of sex, but he's never before hurt anyone so callously for that reason.
I really think we were owed a show-down scene; but that's promised for the future, I suppose.
That's of a piece with so bloody much of the action being off-stage. I found that very unsatisfying.
And who is that squid guy--an undead member of the sorcerer's family? Who? Why?
Way too many loose ends in this book. I was thoroughly unsatisfied by it. One of the worst in the series.
Steve/Stacey
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On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 5:24 PM, jmiddle1@bigpond.net.au <jmiddle1@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
SPOILERS ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~
What I found interesting about GLB was all the questions it raised about the past - and the present. Was FTL subtly magicking everyone - even the Dead Man - into accepting her? Has the Dead Man smoothed off some of Garrett's edges in the past? What is Singe doing with all that paper, and is she pregnant to the ratman who is always around?
Fair points, all.
I don't mind that all this stuff is floating around without resolution in GLB - it reminds me of how Patrick O'Brien wrote the Master and Commander series. I will mind though if it never gets cleared up!
I'll go along with that--but I *don't* want another Garrett-as-the-Dead-Man novel, with 3/4 of the action taking place off stage.
Lastly, re Tinnie - you might say she had her chance, got Garrett to move in with her, at her place, but never got a ring or pushed the relationship along. Remember the kids conversation that FTL had with Garrett that floored him?
Why was he so unhappy about the relationship, that he hung out for something like five days in Fire and Ice without so much as sending a message back home? We should have seen some reason for that. Instead all we got was musing that Tinnie's probably getting more and more annoyed with him--with not much in the way of regrets about that, nor anything as to why there wasn't much in the way of regrets.
There are some serious Tinnie issues to be resolved yet. I can see her as a villian in a book or so's time.
Hmm, not as a villainous villain--that would just be terribly out of character--but maybe spurned-lover type villain? Steve/Stacey
Not "surprised" - but not "oh yeah, saw it coming" either.
I feel like I should be surprised that Tinnie was dumped (softly, but still dumped). But, I never really liked Tinnie - I thought Garrett should have ended up with Maya. It was a little weird that no one in the household seemed to like Tinnie...but maybe that was why she and Garrett were not living there (I did find that surprising. Guy has a house, why not live in it?)
I was very surprised Tinnie was so unceremoniously dumped. Worse, she was dumped after she made a valiant effort at redefining herself to be a better person and a better girlfriend. I found Garrett's defection from her despicable--for reasons of sex, it would seem. He's never been quite that shallow before: Yes, he'll go with a girl for reasons of sex, but he's never before hurt anyone so callously for that reason.
I really think we were owed a show-down scene; but that's promised for the future, I suppose.
That's of a piece with so bloody much of the action being off-stage. I found that very unsatisfying.
And who is that squid guy--an undead member of the sorcerer's family? Who? Why?
Way too many loose ends in this book. I was thoroughly unsatisfied by it. One of the worst in the series.
Steve/Stacey
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/ / / / / / / /// / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / ----- Original Message ----
From: "jmiddle1@bigpond.net.au" <jmiddle1@bigpond.net.au> To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author <glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 6:24:50 PM Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] SPOILERS Gilded Latten Bones
SPOILERS
What I found interesting about GLB was all the questions it raised about the past - and the present. Was FTL subtly magicking everyone - even the Dead Man - into accepting her? Has the Dead Man smoothed off some of Garrett's edges in the past? What is Singe doing with all that paper, and is she pregnant to the ratman who is always around?
Is Chodo still alive - there was a reference to Penny Dreadful that her father *had been* Chodo Contague.
I don't mind that all this stuff is floating around without resolution in GLB - it reminds me of how Patrick O'Brien wrote the Master and Commander series. I will mind though if it never gets cleared up!
Lastly, re Tinnie - you might say she had her chance, got Garrett to move in with her, at her place, but never got a ring or pushed the relationship along. Remember the kids conversation that FTL had with Garrett that floored him?
There are some serious Tinnie issues to be resolved yet. I can see her as a villian in a book or so's time.
I did consider that FTL (who I'm now going to think of as "faster than light") was messing with everyone in order to get established. I'm still considering it. As for Tinnie - I don't know if promising to change is a good reason to keep her. People who need to have someone change in fundamental ways in order to keep a relationship going are in the wrong relationship. I always felt the relationship was convenient for both of them (and he's never been faithful) - neither pushing to make things permanent until recently, and that seems to have killed all the passion/love between them. Tinnie wants Garrett to stop being Garrett and Garrett wants Tinnie to stop being TInnie. This is not a healthy situation. Not saying that FTL is going to be any better...she must have a screw or two loose given her background. And Garrett is already thinking he will not fit in with her social equals. I'm guessing Singe is writing the Garrett books - where else did they come from? How would Glen know all these intimate details of the Garrett household ;-) mr
Steve/Stacey said: "I was very surprised Tinnie was so unceremoniously dumped. Worse, she was dumped after she made a valiant effort at redefining herself to be a better person and a better girlfriend. I found Garrett's defection from her despicable--for reasons of sex, it would seem. He's never been quite that shallow before: Yes, he'll go with a girl for reasons of sex, but he's never before hurt anyone so callously for that reason." Sorry, Steve/Stacey, don't see it that way at all. She wanted to rebuild him from the ground up. I've know folks like that and you run screaming into the night. She made him give up almost everything that made him Garrett. His friends, his house, his work. It was all about "Tinnie" and how GREAT she was and what a great person she was and what a bunch of losers his buddies were. He did not "dump" her for a broad, he dumped her for his friends. Remember the one with all the holes in him? Morley? Or the one with cancer? Playtime? Or the one that is struggling to keep his house going? Or the one... ? It was about reconntecting with with friends, after being guilted into pushing them away. Please note that the rich and powerful brewery owners were not unhappy. Nor was the underground crime grouping, or the Watch or the... well you get the idea. The only one that was upset and I didn't really get a sense of "I'll get you and your little dog too", was Tinnie, whom KNEW what she had done and was doing. This one was, in my opinion, character driven, not supposed to be an action book. This is Garrett getting back to his roots and finding the weird and strange underbelly of the city. Respects Pat ************************************************************** Ahhhh... I see the Screw-Up Fairy has visited us again. MIB 1987 / NetCell Team / Special Op 0435 / Minion Master 081 ________________________________ From: Steven Harris <harrissg@slu.edu> To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author <glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 2:48:42 PM Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] SPOILERS Gilded Latten Bones On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Michele Riccio <mishka_30@yahoo.com> wrote:
SPOILERS BELOW YOU ARE WARNED
/ / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / /
Not "surprised" - but not "oh yeah, saw it coming" either.
I feel like I should be surprised that Tinnie was dumped (softly, but still dumped). But, I never really liked Tinnie - I thought Garrett should have ended up with Maya. It was a little weird that no one in the household seemed to like Tinnie...but maybe that was why she and Garrett were not living there (I did find that surprising. Guy has a house, why not live in it?)
I was very surprised Tinnie was so unceremoniously dumped. Worse, she was dumped after she made a valiant effort at redefining herself to be a better person and a better girlfriend. I found Garrett's defection from her despicable--for reasons of sex, it would seem. He's never been quite that shallow before: Yes, he'll go with a girl for reasons of sex, but he's never before hurt anyone so callously for that reason. I really think we were owed a show-down scene; but that's promised for the future, I suppose. That's of a piece with so bloody much of the action being off-stage. I found that very unsatisfying. And who is that squid guy--an undead member of the sorcerer's family? Who? Why? Way too many loose ends in this book. I was thoroughly unsatisfied by it. One of the worst in the series. Steve/Stacey _______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ SPOILER ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Morley Dotes <morleydotes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Steve/Stacey said: "I was very surprised Tinnie was so unceremoniously dumped. Worse, she was dumped after she made a valiant effort at redefining herself to be a better person and a better girlfriend. I found Garrett's defection from her despicable--for reasons of sex, it would seem. He's never been quite that shallow before: Yes, he'll go with a girl for reasons of sex, but he's never before hurt anyone so callously for that reason."
Sorry, Steve/Stacey, don't see it that way at all. She wanted to rebuild him from the ground up.
No, Pat, I can't agree with that at all. There's no evidence of that in this book. She wanted to be with him. Period.
I've know folks like that and you run screaming into the night. She made him give up almost everything that made him Garrett. His friends, his house, his work.
No evidence of that, either. He decided to live with Tinnie, apart from the Dead Man. it wasn't her doing. He decided it was easier to be a security officer for the Tates than a private dick.
He did not "dump" her for a broad, he dumped her for his friends. Remember the one with all the holes in him? Morley? Or the one with cancer? Playtime? Or the one that is struggling to keep his house going? Or the one... ? It was about reconntecting with with friends, after being guilted into pushing them away. Please note that the rich and powerful brewery owners were not unhappy. Nor was the underground crime grouping, or the Watch or the... well you get the idea. The only one that was upset and I didn't really get a sense of "I'll get you and your little dog too", was Tinnie, whom KNEW what she had done and was doing.
Where is it shown she was upset with him? Quite to the contrary, she came visiting him, contrite about making life tough for him. Garret (and I) anticipated a blow-up from her--but she did nothing of the sort, instead she said she was sorry she'd been too self-absorbed previously. Garrett was not at all faced with a choice between Tinnie and friends, work, etc.; he could easily have had Tinnie *and* friends and work, she said as much. He shoved her over because of hot sex with FTL. Despicable. Steve/Stacey
This one was, in my opinion, character driven, not supposed to be an action book. This is Garrett getting back to his roots and finding the weird and strange underbelly of the city.
Respects
Pat
************************************************************** Ahhhh... I see the Screw-Up Fairy has visited us again. MIB 1987 / NetCell Team / Special Op 0435 / Minion Master 081
________________________________ From: Steven Harris <harrissg@slu.edu> To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author <glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 2:48:42 PM Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] SPOILERS Gilded Latten Bones
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Michele Riccio <mishka_30@yahoo.com> wrote:
Not "surprised" - but not "oh yeah, saw it coming" either.
I feel like I should be surprised that Tinnie was dumped (softly, but still dumped). But, I never really liked Tinnie - I thought Garrett should have ended up with Maya. It was a little weird that no one in the household seemed to like Tinnie...but maybe that was why she and Garrett were not living there (I did find that surprising. Guy has a house, why not live in it?)
I was very surprised Tinnie was so unceremoniously dumped. Worse, she was dumped after she made a valiant effort at redefining herself to be a better person and a better girlfriend. I found Garrett's defection from her despicable--for reasons of sex, it would seem. He's never been quite that shallow before: Yes, he'll go with a girl for reasons of sex, but he's never before hurt anyone so callously for that reason.
I really think we were owed a show-down scene; but that's promised for the future, I suppose.
That's of a piece with so bloody much of the action being off-stage. I found that very unsatisfying.
And who is that squid guy--an undead member of the sorcerer's family? Who? Why?
Way too many loose ends in this book. I was thoroughly unsatisfied by it. One of the worst in the series.
Steve/Stacey
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----- Original Message ----
From: Steven Harris <harrissg@slu.edu> To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author <glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 3:17:10 AM Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] SPOILERS Gilded Latten Bones
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ SPOILER ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Morley Dotes <morleydotes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Steve/Stacey said: "I was very surprised Tinnie was so unceremoniously dumped. Worse, she was dumped after she made a valiant effort at redefining herself to be a better person and a better girlfriend. I found Garrett's defection from her despicable--for reasons of sex, it would seem. He's never been quite that shallow before: Yes, he'll go with a girl for reasons of sex, but he's never before hurt anyone so callously for that reason."
Sorry, Steve/Stacey, don't see it that way at all. She wanted to rebuild him from the ground up.
No, Pat, I can't agree with that at all. There's no evidence of that in this book. She wanted to be with him. Period.
I've know folks like that and you run screaming into the night. She made him give up almost everything that made him Garrett. His friends, his house, his work.
No evidence of that, either. He decided to live with Tinnie, apart from the Dead Man. it wasn't her doing. He decided it was easier to be a security officer for the Tates than a private dick.
Away from the book...but I seem to recall Garrett mentioning a couple of times that he had not seen his friends because Tinnie didn't want him to. That isn't a good sign. I could see her not wanting him to hang around with past flings (Belinda and possibly Winger) but why would she not want him to see Playmate? He may have gone along with her edicts, which makes him as much to blame for the deterioration of the relationship, but I'm pretty sure it was her idea to separate him from his friends, and his career. At least, that is how I read it. Michele
Cook is always creating flawed protagonists, and we as readers WANT to see them as heroes. But they are flawed by design and intention. Cook has said in interviews that his characters make mistakes and have flaws, just like real people in real life. So Croaker and Lady do bad things some time (mostly glossing over them in their narratives), and Bragi Ragnarson makes all sorts of bad decisions, but usually gets away with it through astounding luck and grim determination. Garrett is too stubborn for his own good, and too determined to say what's on his mind, among other flaws. This time, he really gets called out for it (by Singe in particular). When Block and Relway give Garrett a hard time, it isn't just because they are too prim and proper, Garrett really is hard to deal with. Another character trait is that he may be incapable of monogamy. I'm not sure whether or not that counts as a "flaw," viewpoints obviously vary on this issue in the real world. On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Michele Riccio <mishka_30@yahoo.com>wrote:
----- Original Message ----
From: Steven Harris <harrissg@slu.edu> To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author <glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 3:17:10 AM Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] SPOILERS Gilded Latten Bones
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ SPOILER ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Morley Dotes <morleydotes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Steve/Stacey said: "I was very surprised Tinnie was so unceremoniously dumped. Worse, she was dumped after she made a valiant effort at redefining herself to be a better person and a better girlfriend. I found Garrett's defection from her despicable--for reasons of sex, it would seem. He's never been quite that shallow before: Yes, he'll go with a girl for reasons of sex, but he's never before hurt anyone so callously for that reason."
Sorry, Steve/Stacey, don't see it that way at all. She wanted to rebuild him from the ground up.
No, Pat, I can't agree with that at all. There's no evidence of that in this book. She wanted to be with him. Period.
I've know folks like that and you run screaming into the night. She made him give up almost everything that made him Garrett. His friends, his house, his work.
No evidence of that, either. He decided to live with Tinnie, apart from the Dead Man. it wasn't her doing. He decided it was easier to be a security officer for the Tates than a private dick.
Away from the book...but I seem to recall Garrett mentioning a couple of times that he had not seen his friends because Tinnie didn't want him to. That isn't a good sign. I could see her not wanting him to hang around with past flings (Belinda and possibly Winger) but why would she not want him to see Playmate?
He may have gone along with her edicts, which makes him as much to blame for the deterioration of the relationship, but I'm pretty sure it was her idea to separate him from his friends, and his career. At least, that is how I read it.
Michele
_______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Michele Riccio <mishka_30@yahoo.com> wrote:
----- Original Message ----
From: Steven Harris <harrissg@slu.edu> To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author <glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 3:17:10 AM Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] SPOILERS Gilded Latten Bones
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ SPOILER ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Morley Dotes <morleydotes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Steve/Stacey said: "I was very surprised Tinnie was so unceremoniously dumped. Worse, she was dumped after she made a valiant effort at redefining herself to be a better person and a better girlfriend. I found Garrett's defection from her despicable--for reasons of sex, it would seem. He's never been quite that shallow before: Yes, he'll go with a girl for reasons of sex, but he's never before hurt anyone so callously for that reason."
Sorry, Steve/Stacey, don't see it that way at all. She wanted to rebuild him from the ground up.
No, Pat, I can't agree with that at all. There's no evidence of that in this book. She wanted to be with him. Period.
I've know folks like that and you run screaming into the night. She made him give up almost everything that made him Garrett. His friends, his house, his work.
No evidence of that, either. He decided to live with Tinnie, apart from the Dead Man. it wasn't her doing. He decided it was easier to be a security officer for the Tates than a private dick.
Away from the book...but I seem to recall Garrett mentioning a couple of times that he had not seen his friends because Tinnie didn't want him to. That isn't a good sign. I could see her not wanting him to hang around with past flings (Belinda and possibly Winger) but why would she not want him to see Playmate?
Possibly, though I don't recall that from the previous book. But if so, then it ought to have been mentioned in this book, as giving reason for what's going on. Leaving it out is definite flaw, in my opinion. Steve/Stacey
He may have gone along with her edicts, which makes him as much to blame for the deterioration of the relationship, but I'm pretty sure it was her idea to separate him from his friends, and his career. At least, that is how I read it.
Michele
_______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
I have to say that Garret gave up his life to be with a woman who he thought was what he wanted only because she forced her ideals upon him and tried to change him. When he resumed his life as Garrett the P.I. He realized what he had given up just to please one person. When the Furious Tide of Light came back into his life he had a way out. With the Dead mans and Deans opinion he understood that this was where he belonged and being with Tinnie he could never resume his life without moving on. Overall the book was well written and had me on the edge of my seat. Hats off to Mr. Cook for another job well done. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 23, 2010, at 16:02, Steven Harris <harrissg@slu.edu> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Michele Riccio <mishka_30@yahoo.com> wrote:
----- Original Message ----
From: Steven Harris <harrissg@slu.edu> To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author <glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 3:17:10 AM Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] SPOILERS Gilded Latten Bones
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ SPOILER ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Morley Dotes <morleydotes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Steve/Stacey said: "I was very surprised Tinnie was so unceremoniously dumped. Worse, she was dumped after she made a valiant effort at redefining herself to be a better person and a better girlfriend. I found Garrett's defection from her despicable--for reasons of sex, it would seem. He's never been quite that shallow before: Yes, he'll go with a girl for reasons of sex, but he's never before hurt anyone so callously for that reason."
Sorry, Steve/Stacey, don't see it that way at all. She wanted to rebuild him from the ground up.
No, Pat, I can't agree with that at all. There's no evidence of that in this book. She wanted to be with him. Period.
I've know folks like that and you run screaming into the night. She made him give up almost everything that made him Garrett. His friends, his house, his work.
No evidence of that, either. He decided to live with Tinnie, apart from the Dead Man. it wasn't her doing. He decided it was easier to be a security officer for the Tates than a private dick.
Away from the book...but I seem to recall Garrett mentioning a couple of times that he had not seen his friends because Tinnie didn't want him to. That isn't a good sign. I could see her not wanting him to hang around with past flings (Belinda and possibly Winger) but why would she not want him to see Playmate?
Possibly, though I don't recall that from the previous book.
But if so, then it ought to have been mentioned in this book, as giving reason for what's going on. Leaving it out is definite flaw, in my opinion.
Steve/Stacey
He may have gone along with her edicts, which makes him as much to blame for the deterioration of the relationship, but I'm pretty sure it was her idea to separate him from his friends, and his career. At least, that is how I read it.
Michele
_______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
_______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
On 11/23/2010 3:02 PM, Steven Harris wrote:
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Michele Riccio<mishka_30@yahoo.com> wrote:
----- Original Message ----
From: Steven Harris<harrissg@slu.edu> To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author <glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 3:17:10 AM Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] SPOILERS Gilded Latten Bones
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ SPOILER ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Morley Dotes<morleydotes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Steve/Stacey said: "I was very surprised Tinnie was so unceremoniously dumped. Worse, she was dumped after she made a valiant effort at redefining herself to be a better person and a better girlfriend. I found Garrett's defection from her despicable--for reasons of sex, it would seem. He's never been quite that shallow before: Yes, he'll go with a girl for reasons of sex, but he's never before hurt anyone so callously for that reason."
Sorry, Steve/Stacey, don't see it that way at all. She wanted to rebuild him from the ground up.
No, Pat, I can't agree with that at all. There's no evidence of that in this book. She wanted to be with him. Period.
I've know folks like that and you run screaming into the night. She made him give up almost everything that made him Garrett. His friends, his house, his work.
No evidence of that, either. He decided to live with Tinnie, apart from the Dead Man. it wasn't her doing. He decided it was easier to be a security officer for the Tates than a private dick.
Away from the book...but I seem to recall Garrett mentioning a couple of times that he had not seen his friends because Tinnie didn't want him to. That isn't a good sign. I could see her not wanting him to hang around with past flings (Belinda and possibly Winger) but why would she not want him to see Playmate?
Possibly, though I don't recall that from the previous book.
But if so, then it ought to have been mentioned in this book, as giving reason for what's going on. Leaving it out is definite flaw, in my opinion.
Steve/Stacey
I feel like I read a different book. It's very clear (though not directly stated) in the beginning that Tinnie made Garrett give up EVERYTHING except his brewery and Combine duties. Ch 1 indicates he's not even been out of the complex "in a rat's age," and the unstated "promise" Tinnie mentions in Ch 2 means he can't do his regular work, go home, see his friends, visit the Dead Man, or anything else. The "normal life" she says she wanted in Ch 5 doesn't include any of the people Garrett used to run with, and you'll notice that Tinnie herself doesn't seem to have a lot of friends coming over (no doubt related to her meltdown that took her out of the performing world and into Garrett-keeping full-time). Tinnie has no life outside Garrett and her accounting work. And she's made sure Garrett has no life outside of her, either. He doesn't know Playmate is ill (and has been for a long time--his comment in Ch 72 suggests 1.5 years since the previous book, so over a year), has no idea what's up with Morley, doesn't know Melondie Kadare died, and has been gone from home long enough that Singe is running things. Evidently, Tinnie won't even allow Garrett to receive messages, or surely he'd know about Kadare. This isn't garden-variety jealousy. Note also that Tinnie recognizes the relationship isn't healthy for her, either, but the Dead Man diagnoses that it would take some major mental rearranging to straighten out the problem. Getting her back into the theater is Garrett's attempt to straighten out her life, as is breaking up with her. I'll note in passing that they aren't married and Garrett has always had sex with other women. Is the problem that this isn't idle sex but a real relationship? Why precisely do we believe Garrett owes Tinnie anything? GLB suggests to us that her wonderfulness as presented in the previous books may be a matter of Garrett's perception, not reality. Watch Garrett's place fill will all his friends and allies. Then think about the alternative--Garrett and Tinnie alone in their place. Is their relationship worth all the rest? If so, why? Note that none of this means we shouldn't be uneasy about Garrett's new girlfriend, who seems too good to be true. David
He may have gone along with her edicts, which makes him as much to blame for the deterioration of the relationship, but I'm pretty sure it was her idea to separate him from his friends, and his career. At least, that is how I read it.
Michele
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 5:08 PM, David Ainsworth <Narsham@charter.net> wrote:
On 11/23/2010 3:02 PM, Steven Harris wrote:
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Michele Riccio<mishka_30@yahoo.com> wrote:
----- Original Message ----
From: Steven Harris<harrissg@slu.edu> To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author <glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 3:17:10 AM Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] SPOILERS Gilded Latten Bones
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ SPOILER ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Morley Dotes<morleydotes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Steve/Stacey said: "I was very surprised Tinnie was so unceremoniously dumped. Worse, she was dumped after she made a valiant effort at redefining herself to be a better person and a better girlfriend. I found Garrett's defection from her despicable--for reasons of sex, it would seem. He's never been quite that shallow before: Yes, he'll go with a girl for reasons of sex, but he's never before hurt anyone so callously for that reason."
Sorry, Steve/Stacey, don't see it that way at all. She wanted to rebuild
him
from the ground up.
No, Pat, I can't agree with that at all. There's no evidence of that in this book. She wanted to be with him. Period.
I've know folks like that and you run screaming into the night. She made
him
give up almost everything that made him Garrett. His friends, his house, his work.
No evidence of that, either. He decided to live with Tinnie, apart from the Dead Man. it wasn't her doing. He decided it was easier to be a security officer for the Tates than a private dick.
Away from the book...but I seem to recall Garrett mentioning a couple of times that he had not seen his friends because Tinnie didn't want him to. That isn't a good sign. I could see her not wanting him to hang around with past flings (Belinda and possibly Winger) but why would she not want him to see Playmate?
Possibly, though I don't recall that from the previous book.
But if so, then it ought to have been mentioned in this book, as giving reason for what's going on. Leaving it out is definite flaw, in my opinion.
Steve/Stacey
I feel like I read a different book. It's very clear (though not directly stated) in the beginning that Tinnie made Garrett give up EVERYTHING except his brewery and Combine duties. Ch 1 indicates he's not even been out of the complex "in a rat's age," and the unstated "promise" Tinnie mentions in Ch 2 means he can't do his regular work, go home, see his friends, visit the Dead Man, or anything else.
He doesn't know Playmate is ill (and has been for a long time--his comment in Ch 72 suggests 1.5 years since the previous book, so over a year), has no idea what's up with Morley, doesn't know Melondie Kadare died, and has been gone from home long enough that Singe is running things.
That's all on Garrett, not Tinnie. He decided he liked being the brewery in-house dick better than being a private-eye. That's his choice (and for what it's worth, I quite liked the novel that had him doing investigations there--he was active). Didn't mean he had to give up his friends; again, that was his doing, not hers. I find him a singularly unsympathetic character in this book, as well as almost wholly passive, and that makes me unhappy with it. One of the worst of the series.
Note also that Tinnie recognizes the relationship isn't healthy for her, either, but the Dead Man diagnoses that it would take some major mental rearranging to straighten out the problem.
That would've been worth exploring; I was disappointed nothing happened on stage with it.
I'll note in passing that they aren't married and Garrett has always had sex with other women. Is the problem that this isn't idle sex but a real relationship? Why precisely do we believe Garrett owes Tinnie anything?
Simple decency says he owes her face-time if he decides to opt out of the arrangement. I don't mean go wandering--he does that lots of times. I mean putting "finis" to it. Steve/Stacey
He may have gone along with her edicts, which makes him as much to blame for the deterioration of the relationship, but I'm pretty sure it was her idea to separate him from his friends, and his career. At least, that is how I read it.
Michele
_______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
This is killing me!! I haven't read any of these "SPOILER" alert e-mails because I HAVEN'T FINISHED GILDED YET!! 3/4 of the way thru. Damn kids wont leave me alone long enough!!! So far I like it alot. The only thing that bums me out is that Glen is clearly putting in the 'aging' of our beloved characters. Saucerhead with paunch; Playmate with cancer; that whole "We ain't as good as we once was" stuff. (No Im NOT a Toby Keith fan!) Mostly because I've been a Cook reader since 1984, when I was a teenager and Im 'aging' too, right along with them! And, of course, our pal Glen is right along with us! At any rate, I cant wait to read what you all have written about GILDED as soon as Im done; Im saving your e-mails! Id be finishing it right now if I wasnt in the wilderness in Northern Michigan looking for Bambi's Daddy! Thanks for including me in these e-mails! --- On Tue, 11/23/10, Steven Harris <harrissg@slu.edu> wrote: From: Steven Harris <harrissg@slu.edu> Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] SPOILERS Gilded Latten Bones To: "Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author" <glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 11:30 PM On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 5:08 PM, David Ainsworth <Narsham@charter.net> wrote:
On 11/23/2010 3:02 PM, Steven Harris wrote:
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Michele Riccio<mishka_30@yahoo.com> wrote:
----- Original Message ----
From: Steven Harris<harrissg@slu.edu> To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author <glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 3:17:10 AM Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] SPOILERS Gilded Latten Bones
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ SPOILER ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Morley Dotes<morleydotes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Steve/Stacey said: "I was very surprised Tinnie was so unceremoniously dumped. Worse, she was dumped after she made a valiant effort at redefining herself to be a better person and a better girlfriend. I found Garrett's defection from her despicable--for reasons of sex, it would seem. He's never been quite that shallow before: Yes, he'll go with a girl for reasons of sex, but he's never before hurt anyone so callously for that reason."
Sorry, Steve/Stacey, don't see it that way at all. She wanted to rebuild
him
from the ground up.
No, Pat, I can't agree with that at all. There's no evidence of that in this book. She wanted to be with him. Period.
I've know folks like that and you run screaming into the night. She made
him
give up almost everything that made him Garrett. His friends, his house, his work.
No evidence of that, either. He decided to live with Tinnie, apart from the Dead Man. it wasn't her doing. He decided it was easier to be a security officer for the Tates than a private dick.
Away from the book...but I seem to recall Garrett mentioning a couple of times that he had not seen his friends because Tinnie didn't want him to. That isn't a good sign. I could see her not wanting him to hang around with past flings (Belinda and possibly Winger) but why would she not want him to see Playmate?
Possibly, though I don't recall that from the previous book.
But if so, then it ought to have been mentioned in this book, as giving reason for what's going on. Leaving it out is definite flaw, in my opinion.
Steve/Stacey
I feel like I read a different book. It's very clear (though not directly stated) in the beginning that Tinnie made Garrett give up EVERYTHING except his brewery and Combine duties. Ch 1 indicates he's not even been out of the complex "in a rat's age," and the unstated "promise" Tinnie mentions in Ch 2 means he can't do his regular work, go home, see his friends, visit the Dead Man, or anything else.
He doesn't know Playmate is ill (and has been for a long time--his comment in Ch 72 suggests 1.5 years since the previous book, so over a year), has no idea what's up with Morley, doesn't know Melondie Kadare died, and has been gone from home long enough that Singe is running things.
That's all on Garrett, not Tinnie. He decided he liked being the brewery in-house dick better than being a private-eye. That's his choice (and for what it's worth, I quite liked the novel that had him doing investigations there--he was active). Didn't mean he had to give up his friends; again, that was his doing, not hers. I find him a singularly unsympathetic character in this book, as well as almost wholly passive, and that makes me unhappy with it. One of the worst of the series.
Note also that Tinnie recognizes the relationship isn't healthy for her, either, but the Dead Man diagnoses that it would take some major mental rearranging to straighten out the problem.
That would've been worth exploring; I was disappointed nothing happened on stage with it.
I'll note in passing that they aren't married and Garrett has always had sex with other women. Is the problem that this isn't idle sex but a real relationship? Why precisely do we believe Garrett owes Tinnie anything?
Simple decency says he owes her face-time if he decides to opt out of the arrangement. I don't mean go wandering--he does that lots of times. I mean putting "finis" to it. Steve/Stacey
He may have gone along with her edicts, which makes him as much to blame for the deterioration of the relationship, but I'm pretty sure it was her idea to separate him from his friends, and his career. At least, that is how I read it.
Michele
_______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
_______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
Believe it or not these books are written on real life experiences. As much as I would like to credit Mr. Cook with being original he is not. I have been through something very similar to what happened with Tinnie and Garrett. I can say that hes owes her nothing. She tried to create the perfect Garrett and expected him to change for her...... Guess what. Not gonna happen. People don't change for people. You have to want to change. Garrett didn't want to change but he gave it a shot because he thought that he loved Tinnie enough to do it. Once he got back into the P.I. role of Garrett he realized how much he gave up for one person and understood that for the way she treated him she wasnt worth it. Again Hats off to Mr. Cook for capturing the real struggles of modern day relationships. Salute On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 2:50 PM, jimi bowman <psychward58@yahoo.com> wrote:
This is killing me!! I haven't read any of these "SPOILER" alert e-mails because I HAVEN'T FINISHED GILDED YET!! 3/4 of the way thru. Damn kids wont leave me alone long enough!!! So far I like it alot. The only thing that bums me out is that Glen is clearly putting in the 'aging' of our beloved characters. Saucerhead with paunch; Playmate with cancer; that whole "We ain't as good as we once was" stuff. (No Im NOT a Toby Keith fan!) Mostly because I've been a Cook reader since 1984, when I was a teenager and Im 'aging' too, right along with them! And, of course, our pal Glen is right along with us! At any rate, I cant wait to read what you all have written about GILDED as soon as Im done; Im saving your e-mails! Id be finishing it right now if I wasnt in the wilderness in Northern Michigan looking for Bambi's Daddy! Thanks for including me in these e-mails!
--- On *Tue, 11/23/10, Steven Harris <harrissg@slu.edu>* wrote:
From: Steven Harris <harrissg@slu.edu> Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] SPOILERS Gilded Latten Bones To: "Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author" < glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 11:30 PM
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 5:08 PM, David Ainsworth <Narsham@charter.net<http://mc/compose?to=Narsham@charter.net>> wrote:
On 11/23/2010 3:02 PM, Steven Harris wrote:
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Michele Riccio<mishka_30@yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=mishka_30@yahoo.com>
wrote:
----- Original Message ----
From: Steven Harris<harrissg@slu.edu<http://mc/compose?to=harrissg@slu.edu>
To: Glen Cook: Science Fiction/Fantasy Author <glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com<http://mc/compose?to=glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com>
Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 3:17:10 AM Subject: Re: [Glencook-fans] SPOILERS Gilded Latten Bones
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ SPOILER ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Morley Dotes<morleydotes@yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=morleydotes@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Steve/Stacey said: "I was very surprised Tinnie was so
unceremoniously
dumped. Worse, she was dumped after she made a valiant effort at redefining herself to be a better person and a better girlfriend. I found Garrett's defection from her despicable--for reasons of sex, it would seem. He's never been quite that shallow before: Yes, he'll go with a girl for reasons of sex, but he's never before hurt anyone so callously for that reason."
Sorry, Steve/Stacey, don't see it that way at all. She wanted to rebuild
him
from the ground up.
No, Pat, I can't agree with that at all. There's no evidence of that in this book. She wanted to be with him. Period.
I've know folks like that and you run screaming into the night. She made
him
give up almost everything that made him Garrett. His friends, his house, his work.
No evidence of that, either. He decided to live with Tinnie, apart from the Dead Man. it wasn't her doing. He decided it was easier to be a security officer for the Tates than a private dick.
Away from the book...but I seem to recall Garrett mentioning a couple of times that he had not seen his friends because Tinnie didn't want him to. That isn't a good sign. I could see her not wanting him to hang around with past flings (Belinda and possibly Winger) but why would she not want him to see Playmate?
Possibly, though I don't recall that from the previous book.
But if so, then it ought to have been mentioned in this book, as giving reason for what's going on. Leaving it out is definite flaw, in my opinion.
Steve/Stacey
I feel like I read a different book. It's very clear (though not directly stated) in the beginning that Tinnie made Garrett give up EVERYTHING except his brewery and Combine duties. Ch 1 indicates he's not even been out of the complex "in a rat's age," and the unstated "promise" Tinnie mentions in Ch 2 means he can't do his regular work, go home, see his friends, visit the Dead Man, or anything else.
He doesn't know Playmate is ill (and has been for a long time--his comment in Ch 72 suggests 1.5 years since the previous book, so over a year), has no idea what's up with Morley, doesn't know Melondie Kadare died, and has been gone from home long enough that Singe is running things.
That's all on Garrett, not Tinnie. He decided he liked being the brewery in-house dick better than being a private-eye. That's his choice (and for what it's worth, I quite liked the novel that had him doing investigations there--he was active). Didn't mean he had to give up his friends; again, that was his doing, not hers. I find him a singularly unsympathetic character in this book, as well as almost wholly passive, and that makes me unhappy with it. One of the worst of the series.
Note also that Tinnie recognizes the relationship isn't healthy for her, either, but the Dead Man diagnoses that it would take some major mental rearranging to straighten out the problem.
That would've been worth exploring; I was disappointed nothing happened on stage with it.
I'll note in passing that they aren't married and Garrett has always had sex with other women. Is the problem that this isn't idle sex but a real relationship? Why precisely do we believe Garrett owes Tinnie anything?
Simple decency says he owes her face-time if he decides to opt out of the arrangement. I don't mean go wandering--he does that lots of times. I mean putting "finis" to it.
Steve/Stacey
He may have gone along with her edicts, which makes him as much to
blame
for the deterioration of the relationship, but I'm pretty sure it was her idea to separate him from his friends, and his career. At least, that is how I read it.
Michele
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participants (15)
-
David Ainsworth -
Ed Del Pilar Soto -
Hollie Sebastian -
Jamie Crawford -
jimi bowman -
jmiddle1＠bigpond.net.au -
lance mortensen -
Lance Mortensen
-
Marc Rikmenspoel -
Matt Cutter -
Michele Riccio -
Morley Dotes -
Rich W -
Scott Bonner -
Steven Harris