Re: [Fractdev] Fractdev Digest, Vol 63, Issue 3

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Author: marcusadriana
Date:  
To: fractdev
Subject: Re: [Fractdev] Fractdev Digest, Vol 63, Issue 3
Sirs, a little of history:
Fractint was my first contact with fractal s something around the
middle of the ´80s. Since then year even, year odd with my old Basic I
tried to follow and reproduce the images i saw, just as a quest, but
till today i envy but cannot reproduce Lyapunov among others. Winfract
was for me a new horizon although did not have the 'stretch'
possibility that make things take a perspective look-like view among
other shortcomings.
My possible limited contributions to Fractint in fractal ideas, in the
far past, were barred by my ignorance of C and C++, as I once tried
one or two times. The ideas were infantile, so i discontinued to try
and enjoyed my own different mandels, ifs, L´s fractals.
Nowadays ( I quit using Fractint as soon as Winfract were available
for the first time, although making use of the ifs, par, L, frm, map,
Fractint´s archives),Winfract also begun to suffers from our new ´64
platforms.
ManpWIN then was a salvation for I consider it cumbersome the use of
#DOS& compilers.
As the matter of fact, it´s not much, but I have for the last few
months made suggestions to Fractint was my first contact with fractal
s something around the middle of the ´80s. Since then year even, year
odd with my old Basic I tried to follow and reproduce the images i
saw, just as a quest, but till today i envy but cannot reproduce
Lyapunov among others. Winfract was for me a new horizon although did
not have the 'stretch' possibility that make things take a
perspective look-like view among other shortcomings.
My possible limited contributions to Fractint in fractal ideas, in the
far past, were barred by my ignorance of C and C++, as I once tried
one or two times. The ideas were infantile, so i discontinued to try
and enjoyed my own different mandels, ifs, L´s fractals.
Nowadays ( I quit using Fractint as soon as Winfract were available
for the first time, although making use of the ifs, par, L, frm, map,
Fractint´s archives),Winfract also begun to suffers from our new ´64
platforms.
ManpWIN then was a salvation for I consider it cumbersome the use of
#DOS& compilers.
As the matter of fact, it´s not much, but I have for the last few
months made suggestions to Paul de Leeuw for his ManpWIN and,
surprise, he accepted my Basic codes and some long and new refrained
ideas !!!
Hope this email and Paul´s information of a refreshed ManpWIN can stir
the pure fractal universe that now seems devoted to magnificent
palaces, amazing horizons, imaginary planets, traveling lights, that i
consider very nice and amazing but as a product of art associated with
laborious machine time and far from the pure fractal´s ideals like
Fractint had induced us in the past.


Citando fractdev-request@???:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Sorry, but Fractint is not slowing, but rapidly dying
>       (Timothy Wegner)
>    2. Re: Sorry, but Fractint is not slowing, but rapidly dying
>       (Paul N. Lee)
>    3. Re: [Fractint] Fractint under FREEDOS from USB drive (Paul N. Lee)
>    4. Re: Sorry, but Fractint is not slowing, but rapidly dying
>       (Nicholas Wilt)

>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 14:06:33 -0600
> From: Timothy Wegner <tim@???>
> To: "Fractint developer's list" <fractdev@???>
> Subject: Re: [Fractdev] Sorry, but Fractint is not slowing, but
>     rapidly dying
> Message-ID:
>     <CAFLr274tCA4rKt-ZTMixfj1CCL0wht0ni00Aqck67qgz6VFkPg@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>
> I am delighted to hear from Paul de Leeuw, and am equally delighted, Paul,
> to hear you are still working on your fractal program.
>
> Marcus's comments had me laughing out loud. I have no idea what if
> anything I will further contribute to Fractint. But, Marcus, I am amazed
> you know my plans! No need to feel any sorrow about one of the oldest and
> longest-maintained open source projects, which by rights, was obsolete a
> decade ago. Mystery of mysteries, it's life continues on. The folks who
> post in the Fractint list amaze me. I, for one, certainly would not rule
> out more development, but neither am I promising it. FreeDOS is a case in
> point, as nearly a decade went by between versions 1.0 and 1.1. Interesting
> how some very talented folks apparently nostalgic for their DOS
> applications have extended the lives of old software with DOSBox.
>
> At the moment I am indeed working on my old computing platforms, a
> necessity if I wish to run Fractint or recompile it.. As I reported
> earlier, I can run FreeDos/Fractint from a USB drive on two of my three
> computers. Today I wrestled hard with the middle computer. My problems were
> worse than not being able to boot from the USB drive, Fractint's video
> modes crashed under FreeDOS on that machine. No such behavior on the other
> two computers (both the older and newer one.) I did get far enough to learn
> that the (cheap, but fairly new) Nvidia board did NOT have better VESA
> support than the ATI graphics on the other two. My scientific curiosity is
> nearly (but not quite) exhausted with the trials and tribulations of the
> middle machine, so I will just use the other two. These are home built
> machines with removable drives, so I have a lot of flexibility.
>
> Tim
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 14:27:14 -0600
> From: "Paul N. Lee" <Paul.N.Lee@???>
> To: Fractint developer's list <fractdev@???>
> Subject: Re: [Fractdev] Sorry, but Fractint is not slowing, but
>     rapidly dying
> Message-ID: <531A2BA2.1080802@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>
> Timothy Wegner wrote:
>>
>> No need to feel any sorrow about one
>> of the oldest and longest-maintained
>> open source projects, which by rights,
>> was obsolete a decade ago. Mystery
>> of mysteries, it's life continues on.
>>
>
> They said the same thing about COBOL decades ago, but I still see
> companies all the time looking for some of those old programmers (like
> me) that really know how to work with legacy applications.
>
> FractInt will be around until the last of the old users have finally
> died, which hopefully will be a few more decades for some of us. :-)
>
>
> Sincerely,
> P.N.L.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 14:39:29 -0600
> From: "Paul N. Lee" <Paul.N.Lee@???>
> To: fractdev@???, fractint@???
> Subject: Re: [Fractdev] [Fractint] Fractint under FREEDOS from USB
>     drive
> Message-ID: <531A2E81.2050203@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>
> Paul wrote:
>>
>> I have been doing a lot of work on ManpWIN.
>> Let me know if there is any interest. I'm
>> happy to share source code if anyone is
>> interested. The basic engine is based on
>> Winfract.
>>
>> http://www.deleeuw.com.au/download/SetupManpWIN.exe
>>
>
> I have tried to keep up with all of your modifications over the years,
> and have made sure that most of the forums which I have frequented are
> aware of your application. You have given several people an alternative
> when they are unable to use FractInt on their more modern machines.
>
> Thank you for keeping it going, and hope you will continue with the
> upgrades when you have the time to devote to it.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> P.N.L.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 15:53:40 -0500
> From: Nicholas Wilt <nicholas_wilt@???>
> To: Fractint developer's list <fractdev@???>
> Subject: Re: [Fractdev] Sorry, but Fractint is not slowing, but
>     rapidly dying
> Message-ID: <BLU177-W480DF54A672A8EE6C0C9978B8B0@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>
> It saddens me, a bit, that Fractint hasn't "kept up with the times."
> The technological landscape certainly has changed since I sent in my
> contributions 20+ years ago. (I optimized Lyapunov and L-systems. My
> L-systems optimization took advantage of the way integer code never
> touched the FP stack, so I could load the engine state into the FP
> registers and leave it there as the L-system parser happily
> indirected pointers-to-function.) Companies are often willing to
> subsidize open source development if the project is aligned with
> their business interests, but I guess the economics of open source
> don't translate to rendering pretty pictures!
>
> I have very little time these days, what with the family, working a
> demanding job at Amazon, and continuing a part-time life as an
> author (The CUDA Handbook, June 2013). But every once in a while, I
> get to wondering, What's up with Fractint?, find a copy of the
> source code, unpack it, and start looking around, and say Man, This
> code needs a LOT of work. I wouldn't even know where to start!
>
> The name of the project is dated, of course - there are still
> reasons to use fixed point here and there, but performance isn't one
> of them. An optimized CPU implementation of a fractal generator
> would use SSE (or now AVX), have separate single and double
> precision implementations, and leverage multicore hardware. Fractals
> are extremely computationally dense, so are a good fit both for GPU
> computing and for clustering. It's getting a bit far afield from my
> own expertise, but open source compiler technology (LLVM etc.) has
> advanced to the point where the custom fractal engines likely could
> take advantage.
>
> A modern project would put clear divisions of labor between the
> fractal processing, translating the iteration counts to images, and
> the user interface. It might be more efficient to start from scratch
> and migrate code (or ideas) from Fractint a bit at a time. But with
> the limited time I could invest in such a project, I feel a bit like
> one of the mice from The Bell and the Cat.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belling_the_cat
>
> If it isn't already in bitbucket or github or some other open source
> repository, I'd encourage migration of the "latest" (such as it is)
> code base to one of those.
>
>
>
>> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 14:27:14 -0600
>> From: Paul.N.Lee@???
>> To: fractdev@???
>> Subject: Re: [Fractdev] Sorry, but Fractint is not slowing, but
>> rapidly dying
>>
>> Timothy Wegner wrote:
>> >
>> > No need to feel any sorrow about one
>> > of the oldest and longest-maintained
>> > open source projects, which by rights,
>> > was obsolete a decade ago. Mystery
>> > of mysteries, it's life continues on.
>> >
>>
>> They said the same thing about COBOL decades ago, but I still see
>> companies all the time looking for some of those old programmers (like
>> me) that really know how to work with legacy applications.
>>
>> FractInt will be around until the last of the old users have finally
>> died, which hopefully will be a few more decades for some of us. :-)
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> P.N.L.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fractdev
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