Re: RE: zorn-list Digest, Vol 8, Issue 194
Maybe Mike is the Frank Sinatra of the avant-garde: a skillful interpreter of other people's material. Taken on it's own terms, is it really a bad thing? Zach, Patton fan whose interest is waning ----- Original Message ----- From: Kurt Gottschalk <ecstasymule@hotmail.com> Date: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 1:49 pm Subject: RE: zorn-list Digest, Vol 8, Issue 194
alastair@pretentious.co.uk:
That's our Mike, there five minutes after everyone else...
well put. he does have a knack for other people's ideas.
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--- zsteiner@butler.edu escribió: > Maybe Mike is the Frank Sinatra of the avant-garde:
a skillful interpreter of other people's material. Taken on it's own terms, is it really a bad thing?
Not at all, imho. But it's quite apparent that he's always five minutes late, as someone (funnily) said. However, I think that he manages to come up with something of his own, even if the ideas are someone else's (which they are!) You just have to look at Fantomas' progression and it's line-by-line his own version of Naked City: quick-changes for the first album, movie soundtracks for the second one, Grand Guignol/Absinthe obscure ambient-kind of stuff for the third, and now the cartoons thing. For god's sake it's so obvious!!!! Anyway, he's involved in very interesting things (basically Fantomas) and, of course, dispensable projects like Lovage and Tomahawk (just my very subjective appreciation)
Zach, Patton fan whose interest is waning
Really? I think he's currently putting out his most remarkable records, with Disco Volante's permission. Best, Efrén del Valle n.p: Andrew Hill "Point of Departure" (Blue Note) ______________________________________________ Yahoo! lanza su nueva tecnologÃa de búsquedas ¿te atreves a comparar? http://busquedas.yahoo.es
Not at all, imho. But it's quite apparent that he's always five minutes late, as someone (funnily) said. However, I think that he manages to come up with something of his own, even if the ideas are someone else's (which they are!)
I agree that Patton's music is derivative, and zorn is an obvious source of inspiration. It's true, MP ain't no genius that breaks new ground. He's just a hell of a musician,. with a great sense for melody and sound. And the fact that such excellent bands, as Fantomas or Bungle, are possible in convention (more or less) created by Zorn only shows JZ's greatness: his ideas aren't one-offs, there's room ror genuine invention. The Fantomas show in spring was incredible. The painkiller one I saw some three weeks ago was uninteresting in comparison, in fact, it was pretty average. (I do not mean to diss Painkiller, just emphasize the quality of Patton's work) Marcin G.
Hi Marcin et al,
The painkiller one I saw some three weeks ago was uninteresting in comparison, in fact, it was pretty average. (I do not mean to diss Painkiller, just emphasize the quality of Patton's work) Marcin G.
First time I heard Painkiller's Sept. 2003 show at Tonic with Patton on board I liked the direction the band had taken, but after repeated listenings, I really think it pales in comparison with past PK. It all sounds more structured now, cleaner, but in my case, the interest wanes the more I listen to it. I didn't like the idea of Hamid Drake sitting in at the beginning, and it proved to be quite good after all, but I'm sure Yoshida will work out a hundred times better (anyways, that's a very personal impression: I prefer Yoshida to Drake by far, sorry) Although it has been critizised in some places, "Talisman" finds, imho, a very good balance between the more extreme Painkiller and its most contemplative, dubbish side. Best, Efrén del Valle n.p: Rowe/Lehn/Schmicker "Rabbit Run" (Erstwhile) ______________________________________________ Yahoo! lanza su nueva tecnologÃa de búsquedas ¿te atreves a comparar? http://busquedas.yahoo.es
case, the interest wanes the more I listen to it. I didn't like the idea of Hamid Drake sitting in at the beginning, and it proved to be quite good after all, but I'm sure Yoshida will work out a hundred times better (anyways, that's a very personal impression: I prefer Yoshida to Drake by far, sorry)
I've been unimpressed by Totsuya Yoshida at the show I saw - his playing didn't make sense for the band. Maybe it was my mood, or he may have had a night off. mg
Hi, --- Marcin G <mgzl@tlen.pl> escribió: >
I've been unimpressed by Totsuya Yoshida at the show I saw - his playing didn't make sense for the band. Maybe it was my mood, or he may have had a night off. mg
The truth is that I don't find Yoshida is a very good improviser, either, but his muscular sound could have fitted Painkiller better than Drake's upbeat funk stuff. For instance, I like Yoshida & Fujii's duo "Toh-Kichi", but imho, the weakest parts of the performance are those in which Tatsuya is drawn to Fujii's terrain and not the other way round. I think he moves much better in notated environments like Ruins'. Even if I like "Saisoro" w/ Bailey, the drums sound a bit cheesy and derivative and perhaps that's what Yoshida sounds like with Painkiller. Anyway, I'd love to check myself! Best, Efrén del Valle ______________________________________________ Yahoo! lanza su nueva tecnologÃa de búsquedas ¿te atreves a comparar? http://busquedas.yahoo.es
Lets's gace it: THE drummer for the band would be circa'72-74 Al Foster... mg
The truth is that I don't find Yoshida is a very good improviser, either, but his muscular sound could have fitted Painkiller better than Drake's upbeat funk stuff. For instance, I like Yoshida & Fujii's duo "Toh-Kichi", but imho, the weakest parts of the performance are those in which Tatsuya is drawn to Fujii's terrain and not the other way round. I think he moves much better in notated environments like Ruins'. Even if I like "Saisoro" w/ Bailey, the drums sound a bit cheesy and derivative and perhaps that's what Yoshida sounds like with Painkiller. Anyway, I'd love to check myself!
Best,
Efrén del Valle
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i think Rich Hoak (Brutal Truth) would be good maybe, seeing he's a jazzer as well as a grindcore head?? Andrew -----Original Message----- From: zorn-list-bounces+andrewm=mail.selc.com.au@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:zorn-list-bounces+andrewm=mail.selc.com.au@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Marcin G Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 1:03 AM To: Efrén del Valle Cc: zorn-list@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: RE: zorn-list Digest, Vol 8, Issue 194 Lets's gace it: THE drummer for the band would be circa'72-74 Al Foster... mg
The truth is that I don't find Yoshida is a very good improviser, either, but his muscular sound could have fitted Painkiller better than Drake's upbeat funk stuff. For instance, I like Yoshida & Fujii's duo "Toh-Kichi", but imho, the weakest parts of the performance are those in which Tatsuya is drawn to Fujii's terrain and not the other way round. I think he moves much better in notated environments like Ruins'. Even if I like "Saisoro" w/ Bailey, the drums sound a bit cheesy and derivative and perhaps that's what Yoshida sounds like with Painkiller. Anyway, I'd love to check myself!
Best,
Efrén del Valle
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let's hope it gets bootlegged!!! :D Andrew np: Meshuggah - "I" (for the 1millionth time) :D -----Original Message----- From: zorn-list-bounces+andrewm=mail.selc.com.au@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:zorn-list-bounces+andrewm=mail.selc.com.au@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Efrén del Valle Sent: Wednesday, 21 July 2004 7:00 PM To: Marcin G; zsteiner@butler.edu; Kurt Gottschalk Cc: zorn-list@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: RE: zorn-list Digest, Vol 8, Issue 194 Hi Marcin et al,
The painkiller one I saw some three weeks ago was uninteresting in comparison, in fact, it was pretty average. (I do not mean to diss Painkiller, just emphasize the quality of Patton's work) Marcin G.
First time I heard Painkiller's Sept. 2003 show at Tonic with Patton on board I liked the direction the band had taken, but after repeated listenings, I really think it pales in comparison with past PK. It all sounds more structured now, cleaner, but in my case, the interest wanes the more I listen to it. I didn't like the idea of Hamid Drake sitting in at the beginning, and it proved to be quite good after all, but I'm sure Yoshida will work out a hundred times better (anyways, that's a very personal impression: I prefer Yoshida to Drake by far, sorry) Although it has been critizised in some places, "Talisman" finds, imho, a very good balance between the more extreme Painkiller and its most contemplative, dubbish side. Best, Efrén del Valle n.p: Rowe/Lehn/Schmicker "Rabbit Run" (Erstwhile) ______________________________________________ Yahoo! lanza su nueva tecnologÃa de búsquedas ¿te atreves a comparar? http://busquedas.yahoo.es _______________________________________________ zorn-list mailing list zorn-list@mailman.xmission.com To UNSUBSCRIBE or Change Your Subscription Options, go to the webpage below http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/zorn-list
participants (4)
-
Andrew Mortensen -
Efrén del Valle -
Marcin G -
zsteiner@butler.edu