What does this sound like? And more important, where did you get it from?!! Is it really ambient? I've got the feeling that Fantomas output reminds more and more to Naked City's. Jump cuts, movie soundtracks (Morricone, Barry, Mancini,...), and now this!

Yes, in description the albums come dangerously close to Naked City. But I think in practice, Fantomas does have a sound and style all it's own. I think the major difference is that Naked City is all about improvisation - even in a 2 second jump cut, the band is improvising, whereas in Fantomas it is always pretty worked out what is going to happen. Similar story for the film themes... As for Delirium Cordia, it is certainly no Absinthe or Leng Tche. The 'one long track' thing is misleading, in that there are certainly 'movements' within that, with distinct breaks (ie moments of silence, where there could have easily been track marks). As for the sound, it uses a lot of similar sounds to the first two albums (metal stabs, ghostly choir, huge drum fills, etc.) but also some atmospheric noises, record crackle, wind machines, samples, etc... I am reminded sometimes of The Bends from Bungle's 'Disco Volante', and occasionally some of Morricone's horror work... while I like all of these elements, I'm not really sure whether I like it yet! Julian.

on 12/20/03 9:56 PM, Taylor McLaren at morakanabad@yahoo.ca wrote:

Wasn't NC pretty rigorously charted? I've heard a couple of concert recordings, and they all include moments when the band stops because "Joey left out a napalm cluster" or something similar. There was definitely some improvising going on, but I always figured that the material was largely pre-written.

-me

At least around the time of the first NC album, it was pretty rigorously arranged, definitely. You don't wing "French Quarter" or "You Will be Shot". Is there a list by composer of NC's book? I just recorded "The Yodel" (by Big John patton) and someone told me NC had done it. I know JZ loved Big John, but have not found "The Yodel" among the NC lists I've see (not an exhaustive list, I'll grant ya). sh

Oops. I didn't mind recording "Chinatown" even though NC had recorded it (my idea of how was different than JZ's), but there aren;t a whole lotta ways to do "The Yodel". I am not pleased. BTW -- the tune you have listed as "The Way It Feels" is actually "The Way I Feel". sh on 12/21/03 12:28 PM, Rich Williams at punkjazz@snet.net wrote: Is there a list by composer of NC's book? I just recorded "The Yodel" (by Big John patton) and someone told me NC had done it. I know JZ loved Big John, but have not found "The Yodel" among the NC lists I've see (not an exhaustive list, I'll grant ya). Here 'tis...... culled mostly from radio broadcasts and audience tapes E Cars (Ornette Coleman) Surfer girl (Brian Wilson) Church Key (Arnold) Erotico (Morricone) Back In The Earth (Live Skull) Once Upon A Time In America (Morricone) Theme From Taxi Driver (Herrmann) Theme From Body Heat (Barry) The Man From Uncle Theme From Hawaii 5-0 Peter Gunn theme (Mancini) Theme From Henry, Portrait Of A Serial Killer Pet Sounds (Brian Wilson) In My Room (Brian Wilson) Baja (Morricone) Broken Shadows (Ornette Coleman) Super Stupid (P-Funk) Zapata (Morricone) The Yodel Strange Cargo Spagetti & Cheese (Morricone) The Mystery song (Ellington) Funky Stuff (Larry Davis) You Only Live Twice (Barry) A Night In Tunisia (Gillespie) Rosemary's Baby (K.Komeda) The List of Adrian Messenger (Goldsmith) The Cincinatti Kid (Schifrin) Mr Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (from Thunderball) Kaila Graveyard Of The Brotherhood Baby Doll (K Hopkins) Rapid Shave (Shirley Scott) Sunset Surfer (Zorn) Jezebel The Bad & The Beautiful (D Raskin) Lying on the Sofa of Life (DNA) The Way It Feels (Patton) The Poverty theme (Morricone) The Cincinatti Kid (Schifrin) Devils Island (Shorter) Mary T Milano Odea (Morricone) Ride On A Dolphin (Smith) Ski Scene(From Thunderball) Our Man Flint (Goldsmith)

I think it was largely written, but had 'scored' improv ie: "2 bar improv in the vein of 'Napalm Death', or 'Charlie Parker'" etc.... ??? not too sure.... Andrew np: Pigpen - "'V' As In 'Victim'" -----Original Message----- From: zorn-list-bounces+andrewm=mail.selc.com.au@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:zorn-list-bounces+andrewm=mail.selc.com.au@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Taylor McLaren Sent: Sunday, 21 December 2003 4:56 PM To: zorn-list Subject: re: Naked City improv? "Julian" <germtheory@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

I think the major difference is that Naked City is all about improvisation - even in a 2 second jump cut, the band is improvising, whereas in Fantomas it is always pretty worked out what is going to happen. Wasn't NC pretty rigorously charted? I've heard a couple of concert recordings, and they all include moments when the band stops because "Joey left out a napalm cluster" or something similar. There was definitely some improvising going on, but I always figured that the material was largely pre-written.

-me _______________________________________________ zorn-list mailing list zorn-list@mailman.xmission.com To UNSUBSCRIBE or Change Your Subscription Options, go to the webpage below http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/zorn-list

on 12/21/03 3:13 PM, SELC - Andrew Mortensen at andrewm@mail.selc.com.au wrote:

I think it was largely written, but had 'scored' improv ie: "2 bar improv in the vein of 'Napalm Death', or 'Charlie Parker'" etc....

??? not too sure....

In the case of the score calling for event like that (i.e. in time, in a stated harmonic contect), it would be notated in a way that give a player a fairly exacting descriptyion of his job. sh

think the major difference is that Naked City is all about improvisation - even in a 2 second jump cut, the band is improvising, whereas in Fantomas it is always pretty worked out what is going to happen.

I'm not sure what the percentage of improvisation in NCs music was, but thinking of the hardcore short tracks, I wouldn't say it's too high either.

Though you have to consider "Inside Straight" or any of the Patton covers that NC was known to do live and you will see much improv. I'm thinking of the Frisell solos on "Inside Straight" and "The Way I Feel" from the 1989 Live at the Knit disc; or Zorn on "Chinatown"... But you are right about the shorts: completely composed. Even Batman, Latin Quarter, etc among the longer pieces sound to be completely composed; which blows me away that they could still play them so tightly this summer after, from what Zorn said, very little rehearsal. Whether composed or improvised NC was still amazing. Zach