I agree that estradasphere is a great band, one of the best to come out in a while. You cannot deny their skill as musicians. I have never heard a band that is 100 % original. If you investigate well enough, you can find someone who's done it before. I mean, you don't listen to Miles davis or Charles Mingus because they are original. You listen to them because they have the skills and can write damn good music, even if the style is borrowed. To me, a great musician takes something done before and make it their own. You use an old style so people can see (or hear, rather) that you know what you are doing and have the skills, then you make it your own, put your own little flare on it to express what YOU feel while showing your influences so the listener can know where you are coming from. Your people then identify and become comfortable, then you kick them in the ass with your own voice and attitude. I mean, i cannot explain the exhileration I felt the first time I heard "King Crab Battle". I also agree that Estradasphere studio albums (especially the last one. they need to tone Trey Spruance down quite a bit) are way over produced, and if that was the only thing I had heard of theirs, I wouldn't like them very much either. They shine in a live setting, and being in the studio doesn't do them justice. There are quite a few bootlegs floating around so if you can get a copy of one, it would be well worth it. If you wanna trade for a couple or so, I'm open for it.
From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> To: zorn-list@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Estradsphere (was: Sacrifist) Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:02:42 -0400
Now, Naked City live, THAT is the stuff!!! Back then, this stuff was really cool and fresh. I mean, it was actually something. Now it seems every damn you hipster band, tries out this stuff. A bit of hard core, a surf cover etc. It's pointless. Is there a worse band than Estradasphere, I'd like to know about it.
Wow, are you(we) really that jaded?. I find Estradasphere BETTER than 90% of the so-called indie bands out there. Really fun to see live, though their records are somewhat over-produced. Is it just that they are heavily influenced by something great (NC), that came before them, or did one of them sleep with your girlfriend? ;-)
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I agree that estradasphere is a great band, one of the best to come out in a while. You cannot deny their skill as musicians. I have never heard a band that is 100 % original. If you investigate well enough, you can find someone who's done it before. I mean, you don't listen to Miles davis or Charles Mingus because they are original. You listen to them because they have the skills and can write damn good music, even if the style is borrowed.
This would apply to almost all of the lesser gods of jazz (but still the greats), it's not what defines listening to Miles and Mingus. It is the body of work is what makes the difference, not style: greats like above, and people like Coltrane, Stravinsky or Zorn are not about style. Their bodies of work reflect, transcend and sometimes even predict our times to the extent that you can not longer speak about style. So let's wait awhile to oversee the body of work of Estradasphere, before plunging in with Miles and Mingus. In the mean time, it might be more appropriate to compare a new and promising group like Estradasphere with some of the lesser Gods of their times (or even with Naked City). It keeps perspectives fresh. Now I've gotten curious enough to find out about Estradasphere records in Holland, so I'm off to the shops. Keep up doing the good work! Remco Takken
on 5/27/02 2:04 AM, Remco Takken at r.takken@planet.nl wrote:
I agree that estradasphere is a great band, one of the best to come out in a while. You cannot deny their skill as musicians. I have never heard a band that is 100 % original. If you investigate well enough, you can find someone who's done it before. I mean, you don't listen to Miles davis or Charles Mingus because they are original. You listen to them because they have the skills and can write damn good music, even if the style is borrowed.
This would apply to almost all of the lesser gods of jazz (but still the greats), it's not what defines listening to Miles and Mingus.
Wouldn't that depend on the listener and exactly which record he's reaching for? I have certain records I love just because I can hear the rush that comes with doing something completely original -- REVOLVER, PHILOSOPHY OF THE WORLD, and BARON MINGUS leap to mind.
It is the body of work is what makes the difference, not style: greats like above, and people like Coltrane, Stravinsky or Zorn are not about style. Their bodies of work reflect, transcend and sometimes even predict our times to the extent that you can not longer speak about style.
You don't think Stravinsky had periods that were totally about style? Am I listening to SYMPHONY IN C wrong? Or SPILLANE? Or JOHN COLTRANE & JOHNNY HARTMAN? skip h NP: jerry lee lewis, the mercury years vol 1 (a great example of a genius dealing with a set style)
Their bodies of work reflect, transcend and sometimes even predict our times to the extent that you can not longer speak about style.
You don't think Stravinsky had periods that were totally about style? Am I listening to SYMPHONY IN C wrong? Or SPILLANE? Or JOHN COLTRANE & JOHNNY HARTMAN? You're absolutely right, you even prove here that you know exactly what Stravinsky is about in his individual works. But I wouldn't spend one second listening to Symphony in C at this point in my life, when I would ignore the fact that it belongs to the Stravinsky body of work. It's in HIS oeuvre, that it makes the most sense, it being written in 1940 as a neoclassical 'style' work.
The Hartman lp with Coltrane was a complete surprise to me, I listened to that one with my mouth wide open: Skip, you got me there afa style is concerned. As for Zorn: if he wasn't transcending style in his work to the mad extent as he does in his better works, I would be half as interested. I feel that some of his metal collaborations are *just* exercises in style, his own metal-based projects are more: wild pieces of new music in a vast body of work never to be catched in another style than the one he invented himself.
skip h
NP: jerry lee lewis, the mercury years vol 1 (a great example of a genius dealing with a set style)
I heard his sister (is that Linda) on a Van Morrison record. She sounds as an exact copy of Jerry Lee, I wouldn't be surprised if they had the same piano teacher back home. Regards, Remco Takken immediately starts playing an old favorite: Jerry Lee Lewis live at the Starclub in Hamburg
on 5/27/02 1:13 PM, Remco Takken at r.takken@planet.nl wrote:
Their bodies of work reflect, transcend and sometimes even predict our times to the extent that you can not longer speak about style.
You don't think Stravinsky had periods that were totally about style? Am I listening to SYMPHONY IN C wrong? Or SPILLANE? Or JOHN COLTRANE & JOHNNY HARTMAN? You're absolutely right, you even prove here that you know exactly what Stravinsky is about in his individual works. But I wouldn't spend one second listening to Symphony in C at this point in my life, when I would ignore the fact that it belongs to the Stravinsky body of work. It's in HIS oeuvre, that it makes the most sense, it being written in 1940 as a neoclassical 'style' work.
I think the fact that it's a neoclassical effort is as much a factor as that it is by Stravinsky. As much as I see it belonging to Stravinsky, I see it as belonging to a place in time and musical thinking at the moment. Stravinsky, at that phase of his career, was not at his most rebellious.
The Hartman lp with Coltrane was a complete surprise to me, I listened to that one with my mouth wide open: Skip, you got me there afa style is concerned.
I'd say inside vocal standard jazz ballads is a style, and a really defined one at that. The way the band plays on that record is very definitely not the way they play on something like "Alabama", which is also a ballad. The choice of material on that record also is definitely well within the strictures of that style.
As for Zorn: if he wasn't transcending style in his work to the mad extent as he does in his better works, I would be half as interested. I feel that some of his metal collaborations are *just* exercises in style, his own metal-based projects are more: wild pieces of new music in a vast body of work never to be catched in another style than the one he invented himself.
I think of them as explorations within a style or with specific reaction to a style. SPILLANE is definitely all about that.
skip h
NP: jerry lee lewis, the mercury years vol 1 (a great example of a genius dealing with a set style)
I heard his sister (is that Linda) on a Van Morrison record. She sounds as an exact copy of Jerry Lee, I wouldn't be surprised if they had the same piano teacher back home.
Regards, Remco Takken immediately starts playing an old favorite: Jerry Lee Lewis live at the Starclub in Hamburg
Now you're talking MUSIC. skip h
participants (3)
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Darti Bastamai -
Remco Takken -
skip Heller