November 2003 - zorn-list - mailman.xmission.com

Innovations
by Herb Levy 14 Nov '03

14 Nov '03

nathan <ericksna(a)umich.edu> wrote: "oh, and just having a great, varied record collection doesn't exactly get 'fantastic damage' made." Uh, that's exactly my point. If there's an innovation in any of the music you're talking about, it can't just be that someone's "putting bruce haack and Theoretical Girls samples over Husker Du breaks." -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb(a)eskimo.com

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this new (cd) generation?
by Hywel Davies 14 Nov '03

14 Nov '03

Any idea why Wayne Horvitz's compilation "this new generation" didn't simply consist of both "dinner at eight" and "the president" (total 70'), rather than just 4 tracks from the latter? (and two of those were on the cd release only). __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

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Hi
by Bernie 14 Nov '03

14 Nov '03

Hi, I'm back to the zorn list. Bernie. http://community.webshots.com/user/berniecc

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Re: outkast, el-p, dalek, and funkadelic
by ericksna＠umich.edu 13 Nov '03

13 Nov '03

i will be very surprised if doseone ( of themselves, cLOUDDEAD etc) does not fast become one of the most important artists of recent times. not to mention other MCs really streatching the medium: Sage Francis, Noah23, and, most recent effort excluded, Aesop Rock. "just wanted to reply to this with resounding agreement. And the same for cannibal ox, el-p, and Mr. lif. And I also think the two albums from Dalek are incredible, noisy, wall of sound masterpieces. And, I happen to like parliament, funkadelic, especially the early, more guitar oriented funkadelic albums. Frankly to the extent that outkast is derivative of this history is fine by me." "oh, and just having a great, varied record collection doesn't exactly get 'fantastic damage' made." nathan

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Re: beck (as nick drake) (Joseph Zitt)
by Toby Dodds 13 Nov '03

13 Nov '03

Sea Change is one of my favorite listens these days. The Nigel Goodrich production is Spectoresque, beautiful string arrangements and old school tektronics are brilliantly combined. There is definitely a spirit to the record that reminds me of Apple studio projects like Nicky Hopkins's Tin Man Was a Dreamer or George Harrison's All Things Must Pass. I think it's probably my favorite Beck effort - but I am not a big fan of his white funk schtick. Just my .2, Toby

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Re: black people vs. hip hop
by Herb Levy 13 Nov '03

13 Nov '03

Andrew Horton ahorton <ahorton(a)vt.edu> wrote: >If you want to talk about REAL innovation in hip hop production, let's talk >about EL-P putting bruce haack and Theoretical Girls samples over Husker Du >breaks, or Odd Nosdam's (clouddead) "shoegaze hop." It seems to me that that's more of an "innovation" in record collecting than it is in production as such. Developing a style that allows for juxtaposition of previously created work may be an innovation, but the particulars of what's being juxtaposed are merely details. Bests, Herb -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb(a)eskimo.com

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Re: Jim O'Rourke
by doron galili 13 Nov '03

13 Nov '03

At 11:32 12/11/2003 -0700, you wrote: >I think I was introduced to O'Rourke's music on this list. I find his >music to be very seductive and texturally pleasing. It is also >nice to hear an album of his - and not expecting in what you are going to >hear. In that sense he reminds me of early Eno. you are probably not speaking about Terminal Pharmacy, right?

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Re: Pop innovators (was The Experimental Side of Burt Bacharach)
by Ben Axelrad 13 Nov '03

13 Nov '03

I haven't followed the rap scene for a few years but never got the impression that El P had been shunned by the rap community. Consequently, I'm not familiar with the Anticon crew, but maybe one reason they haven't made an impact is that they're not located in/near the large cities (isn't Sole from ME)? It's my impression that the "sellout"/"keep it real" thing isn't as prominent in rap as, say, in the mid 90s, when people were attacking Hammer and Puffy and rappers who had a more R'n'B edge. I'm thinking Tribe's "Check the Rhyme", Fat Joe's "Shit Iz Real", the various "Keep it Real" refrains we heard at that time (KRS "I represent the real hip-hop", Jeminas, etc.), the poor reception of Big Daddy Kane's later albums (which I don't recall being THAT bad). Does anybody today accuse Nas and Jay-Z of selling out? Who are the sell-outs? I haven't heard the latest Outkast but was confused at the critical acclaim heaped upon Stankonia. It's a decent album, but a step back from the P-Funk craziness of Aquemini. And terribly misogynistic too. Ben >From: Gavin Castleton <gavin(a)gruvismalt.com> >To: zorn-list(a)lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: Pop innovators (was The Experimental Side of Burt Bacharach) >Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:49:10 -0500 > >My comment wasn't unfounded. Anticon has been virtually blacklisted for >their various attempts to steer hip hop into something more abstract. I'm >not saying Anticon is good or bad, I'm saying that their attempts are not >welcome by the majority of the hip hop community. Perhaps it is because >they're white. There is a strong distaste amongst hip hop creators for the >idea of white people abstracting an art form they recently abducted. >I disagree that you could make that "tired accusation" about any genre. >Purists are not nearly as prominent (please note, I didn't say "Purists >don't exist in any other American music forms") in any other American music >form as they are in hip hop. You don't hear people getting angry at >Radiohead for pushing rock in a more electronic direction. You don't hear >anyone crying about what Rachels has done with classical music... the idea >of a pop purist is hilarious. But in hip hop, purists are in the majority. > Even the most sparkly of MCs rap about how everyone else is a sell out. >That's the point. And black (or "african americans" if you're afraid of >being called a racist) hip listeners and performers are not excited about >the advent of yet another hijacking (though most would argue it happened >already, way back in the 80's). And they're not quiet about it. And the >negative result of that clinging is that hip hop is veritably stagnant. >When anticon or El P try to push it outwards, they get shunned. When >Outkast do it, it's "innovative." Reverse racism is just as stupid and >detrimental to the art form. Neither is pushing out far enough in my >opinion. If you want to shout racism to avoid the discussion, go for it. >but I'd say that's the more "tired accusation." >If you don't think race plays a role in the perception of hip hop by a >nation of music listeners, than you're not only naive, but you don't listen >to hip hop. For the record, yes, I listen to a lot of hip hop. And I'm >white. And having explored much of the US underground hip hop, I find >that most producers that consider themselves makers of hip hop are >constantly segregated into sister genres like "trip hop," "electronica" and >"drum n bass." >Gavin > >PS. Yes, I'm wearing a white sheet over my head as I type. > >Joseph Zitt wrote: > >>On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 14:53, Gavin Castleton wrote: >> >> >> >>>There are far more innovative producers in Hip Hop. But one must >>>remember, if you start doing anything really innovative with hip hop, >>>than it can no longer be called "hip hop." >>> >>> >> >>One could make this tired accusation about any genre. Remember when they >>derided Coltrane as "anti-jazz"? >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>zorn-list mailing list >>zorn-list(a)mailman.xmission.com >>To UNSUBSCRIBE or Change Your Subscription Options, go to the webpage >>below >>http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/zorn-list >> >>. >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >zorn-list mailing list >zorn-list(a)mailman.xmission.com >To UNSUBSCRIBE or Change Your Subscription Options, go to the webpage below >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/zorn-list _________________________________________________________________ Compare high-speed Internet plans, starting at $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)

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(no subject)
by Tosh 13 Nov '03

13 Nov '03

No, I am talking about his Drag City (is that the label?) pop recordings. His more experimental material is ok, but I think his main forte are the Drag City recordings. -- Tosh Berman TamTam Books http://www.tamtambooks.com

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NYTimes.com Article: Pop Review | Ronald Isley: Reveling in the Plushiest of Bacharach
by f.fuchs＠gmx.net 13 Nov '03

13 Nov '03

This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by f.fuchs(a)gmx.net. /-------------------- advertisement -----------------------\ FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION: IN AMERICA - IN THEATRES NOVEMBER 26 Fox Searchlight Pictures proudly presents IN AMERICA directed by Academy Award(R) Nominee Jim Sheridan (My Left Foot and In The Name of the Father). IN AMERICA stars Samantha Morton, Paddy Considine and Djimon Hounsou. For more info: http://www.foxsearchlight.com/inamerica \----------------------------------------------------------/ Pop Review | Ronald Isley: Reveling in the Plushiest of Bacharach November 13, 2003 By STEPHEN HOLDEN Anyone who doubts that the romantic turbulence in the music of Burt Bacharach exceeds even the most passionate flights of Cole Porter should have been at the Supper Club on Tuesday evening where the singer Ronald Isley performed more than a dozen mostly familiar Bacharach standards. While the composer conducted a 40-piece orchestra from the piano, Mr. Isley twirled and looped his fervent pop-gospel tenor around ballads ranging from "Alfie" to "Close to You." Pop concerts this elaborate often come off as unwieldy under-rehearsed affairs, but this was an exception. The sound was plush and perfectly detailed. Mr. Isley, a soul singer from the old school, carries the pop-gospel style of Sam Cooke in a more ornate direction. The show celebrated the release of "Here I Am: Isley Meets Bacharach" (DreamWorks), an album arranged and conducted by the composer that is one of this year's two or three plushest pop recordings. All but two of the songs were more than three decades old and had lyrics by Hal David. The newer selections, collaborations between Mr. Bacharach and Tonio K., carried the familiar Bacharach signature. The dream world of Mr. Bacharach's music is built on chromatic harmonies that hover anxiously between major and minor keys; angular, knotty melodies that rush, then hesitate, quickly changing time; hints of Brazilian bossa nova. The concert proved a point about Mr. Bacharach. His songs must be taken seriously or they mean nothing. The biggest gaffe of "The Look of Love," the recent, ill-fated Broadway anthology of Mr. Bacharach's songs, was to treat them with a raised eyebrow, as period pieces. Most of the songs were taken at a leisurely pace and appended with gospel-inspired codas. Despite all the heartache in the lyrics, Mr. Isley infused everything with a sense of joy. The change in pace transformed the jaunty "Raindrops Keep Falling on My Head" into an ecstatic freedom anthem. Much to the audience's delight, Mr. Isley and Mr. Bacharach performed it twice. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/13/arts/music/13ISLE.html?ex=1069722003&ei=1… --------------------------------- Get Home Delivery of The New York Times Newspaper. Imagine reading The New York Times any time & anywhere you like! Leisurely catch up on events & expand your horizons. Enjoy now for 50% off Home Delivery! Click here: http://www.nytimes.com/ads/nytcirc/index.html HOW TO ADVERTISE --------------------------------- For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact onlinesales(a)nytimes.com or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help(a)nytimes.com. Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

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