Stealing: is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent. These tracks belong to YELLO. The album has not even been released yet. Sadly the link is available now to everyone on the internet. Did YELLO post this link on the internet for everyone. NO! Someone without permission by YELLO has taken YELLO's property and made it available to EVERYONE FOR FREE! No different then if I took your lawnmower without your consent and gave it to a friend saying "Keep it. Its a gift" This is STEALING no matter how you want to twist it, or as I like say "It doesn't matter how much syrup you pour on shit, it doesn't make it a pancake."
Sorry, but that's ABSURD! If you take my lawnmower, I no longer have my lawn mower. In fact, I had a lawnmower stolen from me about 6 months ago. I still don't have it. Does Yello still have the 8 songs on the promo? Can they still release copies of it? Can they still release their CD with those 8 songs? You're damn right they do. I really don't want this to be a me (or anyone else) versus Yello. This is an issue about the fallacy of downloading being "theft" or "stealing". You can only be a thief or steal something which deprives the owner of that item. Yello hasn't been deprived of those 8 songs, although their trust was evidently violated. John Szpara Private Pilot Fiero Owner ________________________________ From: Jon Kamm <kammagic@comcast.net> To: yello@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 11:45:05 PM Subject: [Yello] Touch Yello 8-Track Album-Preview (Promo) Stealing: is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent. These tracks belong to YELLO. The album has not even been released yet. Sadly the link is available now to everyone on the internet. Did YELLO post this link on the internet for everyone. NO! Someone without permission by YELLO has taken YELLO's property and made it available to EVERYONE FOR FREE! No different then if I took your lawnmower without your consent and gave it to a friend saying "Keep it. Its a gift" This is STEALING no matter how you want to twist it, or as I like say "It doesn't matter how much syrup you pour on shit, it doesn't make it a pancake."
Quoting John Szpara <fierodsl@pacbell.net>:
I really don't want this to be a me (or anyone else) versus Yello. This is an issue about the fallacy of downloading being "theft" or "stealing". You can only be a thief or steal something which deprives the owner of that item.
After finishing work tonight, I had a look at Wikipedia (the font of all(!?) knowledge) - according to this, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property - so you are right on this point. However, copyright infringement is still a crime, whether or not you subsequently purchase the CD. Mark P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "They offered to transport me back to any point in history that I would care to go, and so I had them send me back to last Thursday night, so I could pay my phone bill on time." (Weird Al Yankovic, "Everything You Know Is Wrong")
Correct. It might be copyright infringement, but it's not theft or stealing. That's because Yello (Dieter and Boris) still have the 8 songs (in whatever format) in their possession. Yes...it's a shame this happen without their approval. Yes, I downloaded the songs and listened to them. But...I WILL buy the songs when the CD is released. Hell, I can't wait, and my credit card is dancing around my desk in anticipation. (wink) John Szpara Private Pilot Fiero Owner ________________________________ From: Mark Pulley <mrpulley@lizzy.com.au> To: yello@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:04:15 AM Subject: Re: [Yello] Touch Yello 8-Track Album-Preview (Promo) Quoting John Szpara <fierodsl@pacbell.net>:
I really don't want this to be a me (or anyone else) versus Yello. This is an issue about the fallacy of downloading being "theft" or "stealing". You can only be a thief or steal something which deprives the owner of that item.
After finishing work tonight, I had a look at Wikipedia (the font of all(!?) knowledge) - according to this, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property - so you are right on this point. However, copyright infringement is still a crime, whether or not you subsequently purchase the CD. Mark P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "They offered to transport me back to any point in history that I would care to go, and so I had them send me back to last Thursday night, so I could pay my phone bill on time." (Weird Al Yankovic, "Everything You Know Is Wrong") _______________________________________________ Yello mailing list Yello@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/yello Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
Why is that? John Szpara Private Pilot Fiero Owner ________________________________ From: Julian <julzmon@mac.com> To: The moon: beautiful. The sun: even more beautiful. <yello@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:24:37 PM Subject: Re: [Yello] Touch Yello 8-Track Album-Preview (Promo) Out of all this talk I find this the most amusing. On Sep 28, 2009, at 9:50 AM, John Szpara wrote: Fiero Owner
It’s just unusual On Sep 29, 2009, at 2:02 AM, John Szpara wrote:
Why is that?
John Szpara Private Pilot Fiero Owner
From: Julian <julzmon@mac.com> To: The moon: beautiful. The sun: even more beautiful. <yello@mailman.xmission.com
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:24:37 PM Subject: Re: [Yello] Touch Yello 8-Track Album-Preview (Promo)
Out of all this talk I find this the most amusing.
On Sep 28, 2009, at 9:50 AM, John Szpara wrote:
Fiero Owner
_______________________________________________ Yello mailing list Yello@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/yello Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
They're FUN cars. Like an affordable Ferrari. And Yello sounds GREAT in there at 80 mph! John Szpara Private Pilot Fiero Owner ________________________________ From: Julian <julzmon@mac.com> To: The moon: beautiful. The sun: even more beautiful. <yello@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:00:02 PM Subject: Re: [Yello] Touch Yello 8-Track Album-Preview (Promo) It’s just unusual On Sep 29, 2009, at 2:02 AM, John Szpara wrote: Why is that?
John Szpara Private Pilot Fiero Owner
________________________________ From: Julian <julzmon@mac.com>
To: The moon: beautiful. The sun: even more beautiful. <yello@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:24:37 PM Subject: Re: [Yello] Touch Yello 8-Track Album-Preview (Promo)
Out of all this talk I find this the most amusing.
On Sep 28, 2009, at 9:50 AM, John Szpara wrote:
Fiero Owner _______________________________________________ Yello mailing list Yello@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/yello Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
But according to Jon 80mph is illegal! scnr Zico (from germany) John Szpara schrieb:
They're FUN cars. Like an affordable Ferrari. And Yello sounds GREAT in there at 80 mph! John Szpara Private Pilot Fiero Owner
________________________________ From: Julian <julzmon@mac.com> To: The moon: beautiful. The sun: even more beautiful. <yello@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:00:02 PM Subject: Re: [Yello] Touch Yello 8-Track Album-Preview (Promo)
It’s just unusual
On Sep 29, 2009, at 2:02 AM, John Szpara wrote:
Why is that?
John Szpara Private Pilot Fiero Owner
________________________________ From: Julian <julzmon@mac.com>
To: The moon: beautiful. The sun: even more beautiful. <yello@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:24:37 PM Subject: Re: [Yello] Touch Yello 8-Track Album-Preview (Promo)
Out of all this talk I find this the most amusing.
On Sep 28, 2009, at 9:50 AM, John Szpara wrote:
Fiero Owner _______________________________________________ Yello mailing list Yello@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/yello Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ Yello mailing list Yello@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/yello Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
Not in Germany! My Porsche 911 goes 160 Mph in Germany and Yello still sounds perfect! Dimitri from Holland -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: yello-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:yello-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] Namens Graf Verzonden: woensdag 7 oktober 2009 20:02 Aan: The moon: beautiful. The sun: even more beautiful. Onderwerp: Re: [Yello] Touch Yello 8-Track Album-Preview (Promo) But according to Jon 80mph is illegal! scnr Zico (from germany) John Szpara schrieb:
They're FUN cars. Like an affordable Ferrari. And Yello sounds GREAT in there at 80 mph! John Szpara Private Pilot Fiero Owner
________________________________ From: Julian <julzmon@mac.com> To: The moon: beautiful. The sun: even more beautiful. <yello@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:00:02 PM Subject: Re: [Yello] Touch Yello 8-Track Album-Preview (Promo)
It's just unusual
On Sep 29, 2009, at 2:02 AM, John Szpara wrote:
Why is that?
John Szpara Private Pilot Fiero Owner
________________________________ From: Julian <julzmon@mac.com>
To: The moon: beautiful. The sun: even more beautiful. <yello@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:24:37 PM Subject: Re: [Yello] Touch Yello 8-Track Album-Preview (Promo)
Out of all this talk I find this the most amusing.
On Sep 28, 2009, at 9:50 AM, John Szpara wrote:
Fiero Owner _______________________________________________ Yello mailing list Yello@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/yello Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------- --
_______________________________________________ Yello mailing list Yello@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/yello Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
_______________________________________________ Yello mailing list Yello@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/yello Report list abuse to list-abuse at studio-nibble.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Kamm" <kammagic@comcast.net>
Stealing: is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent.
You are right. Stealing is taking another person's property. Unfortunately, music does not long in that definition of property (forget Wikipedia for once, and check the law). Music is intangible, so it isnt a property in the traditional sense. In stead, what you have towards music are rights. Like, "you have the right to an attorney" and "you have the right to copy this music and sell it". This is fundamentally different from theft and property law. You can steal a CD. You cannot steal music. You can only infringe on rights when it comes to music.
These songs are now available to millions of people for free. Millions of sales that YELLO will never see. Sure YELLO fans will buy the CDs. But there are millions of general music fans who would of otherwise had to buy the album to hear it. Now they can have the tracks for free. Never paying YELLO anything.
Sorry, but independent research (as in "not paid by the music biz") shows that there is no correlation between leaked albums and loss of sales. On the contrary, the increased buying that many downloaders (aka pirates) do as a result of illegal downloads make up for the loss of sales.
simply going by the standard definition of stealing. You take my property without my permission you are stealing. You don't seem to think the standard definition by which we all go by is correct. I find that absurd.
But Jon, no court, lawyer or judge go by that definition. You're wrong. You dont have your facts straight. You dont know the law. There is no such thing as "standard definition of stealing" and copyright infringment never was covered by property theft laws.
My argument is based on facts. The definition of the word backs me up. The only thing backing you up is your opinion. Until you can bring some facts to the table I see no point in continuing.
I never saw a fact in your arguments, Jon. I didnt ever see correct references to law. You claim that illegal downloads are theft. That's legally wrong. That's your OPINION and misunderstanding. Illegal downloads never were or will be theft, it's infringement of rights. I am not saying your emotions are wrong, about it not being a good thing to leak music, but your arguments are. The reduced sales of CDs as of late is not mainly due to illegal downloads, but the fact that there are so many other things and services to spend your money and time on, compared to before. Things that didnt exist 10 or 20 years ago. Digital TV, internet subscriptions, DVDs, ringtones, user-generated personal content (such as Youtube), mobile applications, sms and mms, online games, Xbox, social media, chat rooms.... the music business are idiots if they dont understand that all these things reduce the interest in CDs (which also are not able to meet the delivery methods and convenience that today's customers demand). Greetings from Glenn Folkvord Chief editor http://www.PlanetOrigo.com New sci-fi movie reviews every two days! Always free shipping, bonuses and exclusives!
Glenn - nice website! http://www.PlanetOrigo.com John Szpara Private Pilot Fiero Owner
`Very nice indeed. I see there my favourite Biosphere album Patasnik.:-) 2009/9/28 John Szpara <fierodsl@pacbell.net>
Glenn - nice website!
http://www.PlanetOrigo.com <http://www.planetorigo.com/>
John Szpara Private Pilot Fiero Owner
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-- Arno Natte-Trillian Miles Social: http://www.facebook.com/arno.natte http://arno-natte.hyves.nl/ Personal music: http://www.myspace.com/trilliano http://www.last.fm/music/trillian+miles Music voor tv: http://www.karma.tv/ Music for radio: http://www.purejingles.com/ Remixes: http://soundcloud.com/trillian-miles Itunes music: http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=317552080&s=1...
Thanks, Arno and John. I happen to work for the company that released Biosphere's first 4 albums. Greetings from Glenn Folkvord Chief editor http://www.PlanetOrigo.com New sci-fi movie reviews every two days! Always free shipping, bonuses and exclusives! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arno Natte" <arnonatte@gmail.com> To: "The moon: beautiful. The sun: even more beautiful." <yello@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [Yello] Touch Yello 8-Track Album-Preview (Promo)
`Very nice indeed. I see there my favourite Biosphere album Patasnik.:-)
2009/9/28 John Szpara <fierodsl@pacbell.net>
Glenn - nice website!
http://www.PlanetOrigo.com <http://www.planetorigo.com/>
John Szpara Private Pilot Fiero Owner
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-- Arno Natte-Trillian Miles
Social: http://www.facebook.com/arno.natte http://arno-natte.hyves.nl/ Personal music: http://www.myspace.com/trilliano http://www.last.fm/music/trillian+miles Music voor tv: http://www.karma.tv/ Music for radio: http://www.purejingles.com/ Remixes: http://soundcloud.com/trillian-miles Itunes music: http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=317552080&s=1...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Klonk Mon, 28 Sep 2009 21:11:34 +0200 veschprigt mroktar "Glenn Folkvord - PlanetOrigo.com" <glenn@folkvord.net> [re: [Yello] Some other topic than 8-track illegal sampler download]:
I happen to work for the company that released Biosphere's first 4 albums.
Substrata is and always has been by far my favourite! Erm.... the cover of which is mostly white, which is closer by far than the color black to Yello.... And Geir collaborated with Pete Namlook [of FAX Records] to produce the Fires of Ork. Oliver Lieb also produced with Dr. Atmo "Music for Films" on Fax Records, which same Oliver Lieb had his hands on Yello at one time or another. *phew*! On topic! --gcr
participants (9)
-
Arno Natte -
Dimitri Brekelmans -
Glenn Folkvord - PlanetOrigo.com -
Graf -
John Szpara -
Jon Kamm -
Julian -
klort＠hydrophilus.com -
Mark Pulley