The results of today's inspection of SPOC's Refractor House dome are not encouraging. Basically, water sprayed on the outside poured right through to the inside. Leaks everywhere and lots of them. No wide gaps. Just cracks wide enough to let water through. Many located on the vertical seams between the gores, around the door and where the dome joins to the flat part of the roof. We figure at the very least we're going to have to remove the existing cracked caulk and reapply. What a job that's going to be. But looking to the future we're wondering what might be done to more permanently seal the leaks. Strips of fiberglass? Ideas? Rodger is going to speak with Ken about calling another SPOC committee meeting. But until the situation is resolved we'll be without the refractor this year. patrick
Perhaps a RV roof type sealer? Dale Wilson? Any thoughts?
From: paw@wirelessbeehive.com Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 20:05:31 -0700 To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome
The results of today's inspection of SPOC's Refractor House dome are not encouraging.
Basically, water sprayed on the outside poured right through to the inside.
Leaks everywhere and lots of them.
No wide gaps. Just cracks wide enough to let water through. Many located on the vertical seams between the gores, around the door and where the dome joins to the flat part of the roof.
We figure at the very least we're going to have to remove the existing cracked caulk and reapply. What a job that's going to be.
But looking to the future we're wondering what might be done to more permanently seal the leaks.
Strips of fiberglass?
Ideas?
Rodger is going to speak with Ken about calling another SPOC committee meeting.
But until the situation is resolved we'll be without the refractor this year.
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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Look into commercial-grade sealants, and even consider having them applied by a sealant contractor who will offer a warranty. However, ten years might be the best to expect for most sealants, and isn't that about how long they've lasted? Butyl may be a better sealant for the dome joints, but I'd defer to the opinion of a sealant contractor. At the roof transitions (dome-to-flat-roof) proper flashing and back-flashing are a must. Didn't we use a roofing membrane product at those locations? EPDM or other single-ply membranes should work well there, including flashings. Wish I could be there to help - sorry that I'm not, but seriously consider using contractors for roofing and/or sealants. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Wiggins Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 8:06 PM To: utah astronomy listserve utah astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome The results of today's inspection of SPOC's Refractor House dome are not encouraging. Basically, water sprayed on the outside poured right through to the inside. Leaks everywhere and lots of them. No wide gaps. Just cracks wide enough to let water through. Many located on the vertical seams between the gores, around the door and where the dome joins to the flat part of the roof. We figure at the very least we're going to have to remove the existing cracked caulk and reapply. What a job that's going to be. But looking to the future we're wondering what might be done to more permanently seal the leaks. Strips of fiberglass? Ideas? Rodger is going to speak with Ken about calling another SPOC committee meeting. But until the situation is resolved we'll be without the refractor this year. patrick
Oops - forgot to add - now that my SLAS membership is reinstated, I feel that I can comment on the appropriateness of spending money for a bus charter (or similar) versus SPOC maintenance. I vote for spending the money on the latter. Few astronomy clubs have such an investment to preserve. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Wiggins Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 8:06 PM To: utah astronomy listserve utah astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome The results of today's inspection of SPOC's Refractor House dome are not encouraging. Basically, water sprayed on the outside poured right through to the inside. Leaks everywhere and lots of them. No wide gaps. Just cracks wide enough to let water through. Many located on the vertical seams between the gores, around the door and where the dome joins to the flat part of the roof. We figure at the very least we're going to have to remove the existing cracked caulk and reapply. What a job that's going to be. But looking to the future we're wondering what might be done to more permanently seal the leaks. Strips of fiberglass? Ideas? Rodger is going to speak with Ken about calling another SPOC committee meeting. But until the situation is resolved we'll be without the refractor this year. patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
I agree with Kim, use SLAS funds to repair the dome properly and or professionally. I would think Rodger Butz's experience as a home inspector would help.
It does seem perhaps something was missed in the first place or perhaps as Kim said a few years is all we can expect and it will require regular mending. Oops - forgot to add - now that my SLAS membership is reinstated, I feel
that I can comment on the appropriateness of spending money for a bus charter (or similar) versus SPOC maintenance. I vote for spending the money on the latter. Few astronomy clubs have such an investment to preserve.
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Wiggins Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 8:06 PM To: utah astronomy listserve utah astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome
The results of today's inspection of SPOC's Refractor House dome are not encouraging.
Basically, water sprayed on the outside poured right through to the inside.
Leaks everywhere and lots of them.
No wide gaps. Just cracks wide enough to let water through. Many located on the vertical seams between the gores, around the door and where the dome joins to the flat part of the roof.
We figure at the very least we're going to have to remove the existing cracked caulk and reapply. What a job that's going to be.
But looking to the future we're wondering what might be done to more permanently seal the leaks.
Strips of fiberglass?
Ideas?
Rodger is going to speak with Ken about calling another SPOC committee meeting.
But until the situation is resolved we'll be without the refractor this year.
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
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_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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The metal dome will have a LOT of thermal movement and I suspect that this, combined with high temperatures during summer contribute to a shorter service life than might be expected under other conditions. I suggested butyl because it is used in exactly similar conditions, for example on automotive glass. And yet, I still recommend that a professional be consulted. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of erikhansen@thebluezone.net Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 9:20 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome
I agree with Kim, use SLAS funds to repair the dome properly and or professionally. I would think Rodger Butz's experience as a home inspector would help.
It does seem perhaps something was missed in the first place or perhaps as Kim said a few years is all we can expect and it will require regular mending.
The difference is that SPOC is a separately-funded expense, with people paying into a SPOC fund to access the facility -- so none of the "outsiders" not paying into the SPOC fund should be taxed for its upkeep. They would be subsidizing those who use SPOC! Now, that was just a restatement of the argument that was evoked to blast me for suggesting that SLAS could rent a bus. If I remember correctly, I was accused of wanting the rest to "subsidize" Cory and my trip, which had never even entered my mind. It was an insulting, demeaning comment. Just for the record: my actual feeling is that SPOC is a great resource for the club and general funds should help maintain it. Also, I think there is no conflict between the two expenses, dome and bus. Finally, I'm strongly in favor of both repairing the dome and renting a bus, regardless of how the rental is paid. -- Joe ________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome Oops - forgot to add - now that my SLAS membership is reinstated, I feel that I can comment on the appropriateness of spending money for a bus charter (or similar) versus SPOC maintenance. I vote for spending the money on the latter. Few astronomy clubs have such an investment to preserve. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Wiggins Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 8:06 PM To: utah astronomy listserve utah astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome The results of today's inspection of SPOC's Refractor House dome are not encouraging. Basically, water sprayed on the outside poured right through to the inside. Leaks everywhere and lots of them. No wide gaps. Just cracks wide enough to let water through. Many located on the vertical seams between the gores, around the door and where the dome joins to the flat part of the roof. We figure at the very least we're going to have to remove the existing cracked caulk and reapply. What a job that's going to be. But looking to the future we're wondering what might be done to more permanently seal the leaks. Strips of fiberglass? Ideas? Rodger is going to speak with Ken about calling another SPOC committee meeting. But until the situation is resolved we'll be without the refractor this year. patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
Oh goodie a SPOC blasting thread. I have lots to say about this subject. I'll start with the idea that an observatory is a dated concept. Sort of like manned space flight. Or the mainframe computer in the age of the PC. I today's world you can pic up an imported particle board DOB at a the price of an expensive eyepiece. You can set it up outside the door of the observatory on a star party night and have a steady stream of people tell you that your telescope has a better view than the Ealing or the Grim. This has happened to more than just me and on more than one occasion. It's a fact. You can also set up in your own front yard to look at planets and the moon and share with the neighbors. You can take it to a school star party or a supermarket parking lot for public access. And you can go to the mountains or the desert for fantastic deep sky observing. DT ________________________________ From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome The difference is that SPOC is a separately-funded expense, with people paying into a SPOC fund to access the facility -- so none of the "outsiders" not paying into the SPOC fund should be taxed for its upkeep. They would be subsidizing those who use SPOC! Now, that was just a restatement of the argument that was evoked to blast me for suggesting that SLAS could rent a bus. If I remember correctly, I was accused of wanting the rest to "subsidize" Cory and my trip, which had never even entered my mind. It was an insulting, demeaning comment. Just for the record: my actual feeling is that SPOC is a great resource for the club and general funds should help maintain it. Also, I think there is no conflict between the two expenses, dome and bus. Finally, I'm strongly in favor of both repairing the dome and renting a bus, regardless of how the rental is paid. -- Joe ________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome Oops - forgot to add - now that my SLAS membership is reinstated, I feel that I can comment on the appropriateness of spending money for a bus charter (or similar) versus SPOC maintenance. I vote for spending the money on the latter. Few astronomy clubs have such an investment to preserve. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Wiggins Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 8:06 PM To: utah astronomy listserve utah astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome The results of today's inspection of SPOC's Refractor House dome are not encouraging. Basically, water sprayed on the outside poured right through to the inside. Leaks everywhere and lots of them. No wide gaps. Just cracks wide enough to let water through. Many located on the vertical seams between the gores, around the door and where the dome joins to the flat part of the roof. We figure at the very least we're going to have to remove the existing cracked caulk and reapply. What a job that's going to be. But looking to the future we're wondering what might be done to more permanently seal the leaks. Strips of fiberglass? Ideas? Rodger is going to speak with Ken about calling another SPOC committee meeting. But until the situation is resolved we'll be without the refractor this year. patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
You missed my point, Daniel. It was a pro-SPOC thread. Maybe you should read my comment again. ________________________________ From: daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:10 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] I H8 SPOC Oh goodie a SPOC blasting thread. I have lots to say about this subject. I'll start with the idea that an observatory is a dated concept. Sort of like manned space flight. Or the mainframe computer in the age of the PC. I today's world you can pic up an imported particle board DOB at a the price of an expensive eyepiece. You can set it up outside the door of the observatory on a star party night and have a steady stream of people tell you that your telescope has a better view than the Ealing or the Grim. This has happened to more than just me and on more than one occasion. It's a fact. You can also set up in your own front yard to look at planets and the moon and share with the neighbors. You can take it to a school star party or a supermarket parking lot for public access. And you can go to the mountains or the desert for fantastic deep sky observing. DT ________________________________ From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome The difference is that SPOC is a separately-funded expense, with people paying into a SPOC fund to access the facility -- so none of the "outsiders" not paying into the SPOC fund should be taxed for its upkeep. They would be subsidizing those who use SPOC! Now, that was just a restatement of the argument that was evoked to blast me for suggesting that SLAS could rent a bus. If I remember correctly, I was accused of wanting the rest to "subsidize" Cory and my trip, which had never even entered my mind. It was an insulting, demeaning comment. Just for the record: my actual feeling is that SPOC is a great resource for the club and general funds should help maintain it. Also, I think there is no conflict between the two expenses, dome and bus. Finally, I'm strongly in favor of both repairing the dome and renting a bus, regardless of how the rental is paid. -- Joe ________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome Oops - forgot to add - now that my SLAS membership is reinstated, I feel that I can comment on the appropriateness of spending money for a bus charter (or similar) versus SPOC maintenance. I vote for spending the money on the latter. Few astronomy clubs have such an investment to preserve. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Wiggins Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 8:06 PM To: utah astronomy listserve utah astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome The results of today's inspection of SPOC's Refractor House dome are not encouraging. Basically, water sprayed on the outside poured right through to the inside. Leaks everywhere and lots of them. No wide gaps. Just cracks wide enough to let water through. Many located on the vertical seams between the gores, around the door and where the dome joins to the flat part of the roof. We figure at the very least we're going to have to remove the existing cracked caulk and reapply. What a job that's going to be. But looking to the future we're wondering what might be done to more permanently seal the leaks. Strips of fiberglass? Ideas? Rodger is going to speak with Ken about calling another SPOC committee meeting. But until the situation is resolved we'll be without the refractor this year. patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
"SPOC blasting thread"? I must have missed a post. I didn't see any invitation to blast SPOC. I guess I should ask the members of the Utah Astronomy Mail List for forgiveness in advance as I know this is not a SLAS site. I admit, I think I know where you are coming from Daniel but I believe that you are "all about the astronomy" or a majority so. I think that a destination like SPOC is NOT a dated concept. Having a location like SPOC even with it's short comings is a tremendous boon to the people of Stansbury, Tooele County, Salt Lake County and reaches far beyond that. A family can pack up in the car and head to SPOC and enjoy an evening under the stars, with excellent telescopes, nice grass, bring a lawn chair and just enjoy the place FREE! As a matter of fact they can't spend any money there because we don't charge for anything. Sure as heck beats the last Jazz game I went to. Traffic, poor parking, people behind us spilling beer down my kids backs and swearing like I haven't heard since MCRD San Diego. And we got reasonably priced seats, $22.00 each if I remember correctly.Yes, I have had people tell me that my trusty Chinese 10" scopes were better views than the ones in the observatory at times. To some, it is not about the telescopes. To many it IS a social outing in a family friendly location. It's about different things for different people. Something that your post does not seem to allow for. Hope to see you this summer at SPOC, at schools, at grocery parking lots and maybe even run into you out in the desert. Steve
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 11:10:30 -0800 From: outwest112@yahoo.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: [Utah-astronomy] I H8 SPOC
Oh goodie a SPOC blasting thread. I have lots to say about this subject.
I'll start with the idea that an observatory is a dated concept. Sort of like manned space flight. Or the mainframe computer in the age of the PC.
I today's world you can pic up an imported particle board DOB at a the price of an expensive eyepiece. You can set it up outside the door of the observatory on a star party night and have a steady stream of people tell you that your telescope has a better view than the Ealing or the Grim. This has happened to more than just me and on more than one occasion. It's a fact.
You can also set up in your own front yard to look at planets and the moon and share with the neighbors.
You can take it to a school star party or a supermarket parking lot for public access.
And you can go to the mountains or the desert for fantastic deep sky observing.
DT
________________________________ From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome
The difference is that SPOC is a separately-funded expense, with people paying into a SPOC fund to access the facility -- so none of the "outsiders" not paying into the SPOC fund should be taxed for its upkeep. They would be subsidizing those who use SPOC! Now, that was just a restatement of the argument that was evoked to blast me for suggesting that SLAS could rent a bus. If I remember correctly, I was accused of wanting the rest to "subsidize" Cory and my trip, which had never even entered my mind. It was an insulting, demeaning comment.
Just for the record: my actual feeling is that SPOC is a great resource for the club and general funds should help maintain it. Also, I think there is no conflict between the two expenses, dome and bus. Finally, I'm strongly in favor of both repairing the dome and renting a bus, regardless of how the rental is paid. -- Joe
________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome
Oops - forgot to add - now that my SLAS membership is reinstated, I feel that I can comment on the appropriateness of spending money for a bus charter (or similar) versus SPOC maintenance. I vote for spending the money on the latter. Few astronomy clubs have such an investment to preserve.
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Wiggins Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 8:06 PM To: utah astronomy listserve utah astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome
The results of today's inspection of SPOC's Refractor House dome are not encouraging.
Basically, water sprayed on the outside poured right through to the inside.
Leaks everywhere and lots of them.
No wide gaps. Just cracks wide enough to let water through. Many located on the vertical seams between the gores, around the door and where the dome joins to the flat part of the roof.
We figure at the very least we're going to have to remove the existing cracked caulk and reapply. What a job that's going to be.
But looking to the future we're wondering what might be done to more permanently seal the leaks.
Strips of fiberglass?
Ideas?
Rodger is going to speak with Ken about calling another SPOC committee meeting.
But until the situation is resolved we'll be without the refractor this year.
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
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Steve, I think someone has a strange grudge against me and doesn't want to give me any credit, and finds it easy to misstate my posts. Of course you're right that it's never been a "SPOC blasting thread." But that's how it goes. -- Joe ________________________________ From: Steve Fisher <iotacass1@hotmail.com> To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] I H8 SPOC "SPOC blasting thread"? I must have missed a post. I didn't see any invitation to blast SPOC. I guess I should ask the members of the Utah Astronomy Mail List for forgiveness in advance as I know this is not a SLAS site. I admit, I think I know where you are coming from Daniel but I believe that you are "all about the astronomy" or a majority so. I think that a destination like SPOC is NOT a dated concept. Having a location like SPOC even with it's short comings is a tremendous boon to the people of Stansbury, Tooele County, Salt Lake County and reaches far beyond that. A family can pack up in the car and head to SPOC and enjoy an evening under the stars, with excellent telescopes, nice grass, bring a lawn chair and just enjoy the place FREE! As a matter of fact they can't spend any money there because we don't charge for anything. Sure as heck beats the last Jazz game I went to. Traffic, poor parking, people behind us spilling beer down my kids backs and swearing like I haven't heard since MCRD San Diego. And we got reasonably priced seats, $22.00 each if I remember correctly.Yes, I have had people tell me that my trusty Chinese 10" scopes were better views than the ones in the observatory at times. To some, it is not about the telescopes. To many it IS a social outing in a family friendly location. It's about different things for different people. Something that your post does not seem to allow for. Hope to see you this summer at SPOC, at schools, at grocery parking lots and maybe even run into you out in the desert. Steve
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 11:10:30 -0800 From: outwest112@yahoo.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: [Utah-astronomy] I H8 SPOC
Oh goodie a SPOC blasting thread. I have lots to say about this subject. I'll start with the idea that an observatory is a dated concept. Sort of like manned space flight. Or the mainframe computer in the age of the PC. I today's world you can pic up an imported particle board DOB at a the price of an expensive eyepiece. You can set it up outside the door of the observatory on a star party night and have a steady stream of people tell you that your telescope has a better view than the Ealing or the Grim. This has happened to more than just me and on more than one occasion. It's a fact. You can also set up in your own front yard to look at planets and the moon and share with the neighbors. You can take it to a school star party or a supermarket parking lot for public access. And you can go to the mountains or the desert for fantastic deep sky observing. DT
________________________________ From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome The difference is that SPOC is a separately-funded expense, with people paying into a SPOC fund to access the facility -- so none of the "outsiders" not paying into the SPOC fund should be taxed for its upkeep. They would be subsidizing those who use SPOC! Now, that was just a restatement of the argument that was evoked to blast me for suggesting that SLAS could rent a bus. If I remember correctly, I was accused of wanting the rest to "subsidize" Cory and my trip, which had never even entered my mind. It was an insulting, demeaning comment.
Just for the record: my actual feeling is that SPOC is a great resource for the club and general funds should help maintain it. Also, I think there is no conflict between the two expenses, dome and bus. Finally, I'm strongly in favor of both repairing the dome and renting a bus, regardless of how the rental is paid. -- Joe
________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome
Oops - forgot to add - now that my SLAS membership is reinstated, I feel that I can comment on the appropriateness of spending money for a bus charter (or similar) versus SPOC maintenance. I vote for spending the money on the latter. Few astronomy clubs have such an investment to preserve.
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Wiggins Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 8:06 PM To: utah astronomy listserve utah astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome
The results of today's inspection of SPOC's Refractor House dome are not encouraging.
Basically, water sprayed on the outside poured right through to the inside.
Leaks everywhere and lots of them.
No wide gaps. Just cracks wide enough to let water through. Many located on the vertical seams between the gores, around the door and where the dome joins to the flat part of the roof.
We figure at the very least we're going to have to remove the existing cracked caulk and reapply. What a job that's going to be.
But looking to the future we're wondering what might be done to more permanently seal the leaks.
Strips of fiberglass?
Ideas?
Rodger is going to speak with Ken about calling another SPOC committee meeting.
But until the situation is resolved we'll be without the refractor this year.
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Joe, I think you are perhaps too thinned skinned, as well as too hard on the rest of us. Some postings (including mine) tend to be blunt, but blunt rather than extending to wordiness. You are admired, not only for your growing success in astro-photography, but also your apparent ease in writing (an ease that belies the years of work devoted to learning your craft). Just as you cannot legislate against stupidity, you cannot legislate against jealously. Remember, I got hopped on pretty hard at a board meeting for proposing an idea I thought (and still do) had merit. Keep the faith. 73, lh On 3/6/2012 4:14 PM, Joe Bauman wrote:
Steve, I think someone has a strange grudge against me and doesn't want to give me any credit, and finds it easy to misstate my posts. Of course you're right that it's never been a "SPOC blasting thread." But that's how it goes. -- Joe
I'm not mad at you in any way or intending to be hard on you, Larry -- I like you a lot, in fact. I like almost everyone in the club and on UA. But when someone (not you) insists that my comment that was intended to support SPOC was part of an "I H8 SPOC" diatribe, it just grinds salt into the wounds. I have always been subjected to a lot of criticism and attack as part of my former profession and always did my honest best so those outside attacks just bounced off me. But when I was not supported from within as I should have been -- when my own higher-ups yanked the rug out from under me -- that's what hurt like hell. I guess I felt that way about UA, and when I was blindsided by political-type attacks it really hurt. I suppose it shouldn't have and I shouldn't have been idealistic, in thinking that people who share an interest in the sublime would be more understanding. I know better now and I'll just try and keep my big fat mouth shut. Sometimes. Thanks, Joe ________________________________ From: Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] I H8 SPOC Joe, I think you are perhaps too thinned skinned, as well as too hard on the rest of us. Some postings (including mine) tend to be blunt, but blunt rather than extending to wordiness. You are admired, not only for your growing success in astro-photography, but also your apparent ease in writing (an ease that belies the years of work devoted to learning your craft). Just as you cannot legislate against stupidity, you cannot legislate against jealously. Remember, I got hopped on pretty hard at a board meeting for proposing an idea I thought (and still do) had merit. Keep the faith. 73, lh On 3/6/2012 4:14 PM, Joe Bauman wrote:
Steve, I think someone has a strange grudge against me and doesn't want to give me any credit, and finds it easy to misstate my posts. Of course you're right that it's never been a "SPOC blasting thread." But that's how it goes. -- Joe
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Think of it this way Joe--you are throwing out ideas and suggestions that get people riled up. I'd say that's a good thing--it shows that you are a passionate person, and hitting nerves. Much like a journalist should. There's always going to be people that don't see things as you see them, no matter what you do. I just chalk it up to me marching to my own drum, and the rest of the world is out of step. Dan On Mar 6, 2012, at 6:39 PM, Joe Bauman wrote:
I'm not mad at you in any way or intending to be hard on you, Larry -- I like you a lot, in fact. I like almost everyone in the club and on UA. But when someone (not you) insists that my comment that was intended to support SPOC was part of an "I H8 SPOC" diatribe, it just grinds salt into the wounds. I have always been subjected to a lot of criticism and attack as part of my former profession and always did my honest best so those outside attacks just bounced off me. But when I was not supported from within as I should have been -- when my own higher-ups yanked the rug out from under me -- that's what hurt like hell. I guess I felt that way about UA, and when I was blindsided by political-type attacks it really hurt. I suppose it shouldn't have and I shouldn't have been idealistic, in thinking that people who share an interest in the sublime would be more understanding. I know better now and I'll just try and keep my big fat mouth shut. Sometimes. Thanks, Joe
________________________________ From: Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] I H8 SPOC
Joe, I think you are perhaps too thinned skinned, as well as too hard on the rest of us. Some postings (including mine) tend to be blunt, but blunt rather than extending to wordiness. You are admired, not only for your growing success in astro-photography, but also your apparent ease in writing (an ease that belies the years of work devoted to learning your craft). Just as you cannot legislate against stupidity, you cannot legislate against jealously. Remember, I got hopped on pretty hard at a board meeting for proposing an idea I thought (and still do) had merit. Keep the faith. 73, lh
On 3/6/2012 4:14 PM, Joe Bauman wrote:
Steve, I think someone has a strange grudge against me and doesn't want to give me any credit, and finds it easy to misstate my posts. Of course you're right that it's never been a "SPOC blasting thread." But that's how it goes. -- Joe
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-- Daniel Holmes, danielh@holmesonics.com "Laugh while you can, monkey boy!" -- Lord John Whorfin
Yes, lots of thin skin here. The original thread was focused on roofing technology and how to fix a roof. Joe pulled it sideways when he mentioned funding and the bus trip to the eclipse which was shot down over funding. I just pointed out that SPOC is to SLAS like the manned space program is to scientific space exploration. It eats up the budget so you can't do anything else. I didn't say or imply that SLAS doesn't do public outreach. I just said that you don't need an observatory to do public outreach. You also don't need to drive to Bryce to do it. My preference is to spend the clubs budget in the Salt Lake Valley. In the comming year when we look for a time slot for star parties at the Natural History Museum, I would prefer taking the slots away from SPOC rather than from Wheeler Farm or the Harmon's events. I'm not alone in these opinions. DT ________________________________ From: Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] I H8 SPOC Joe, I think you are perhaps too thinned skinned, as well as too hard on the rest of us. Some postings (including mine) tend to be blunt, but blunt rather than extending to wordiness. You are admired, not only for your growing success in astro-photography, but also your apparent ease in writing (an ease that belies the years of work devoted to learning your craft). Just as you cannot legislate against stupidity, you cannot legislate against jealously. Remember, I got hopped on pretty hard at a board meeting for proposing an idea I thought (and still do) had merit. Keep the faith. 73, lh On 3/6/2012 4:14 PM, Joe Bauman wrote:
Steve, I think someone has a strange grudge against me and doesn't want to give me any credit, and finds it easy to misstate my posts. Of course you're right that it's never been a "SPOC blasting thread." But that's how it goes. -- Joe
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Sigh. Wrong again, as usual, Daniel. I am not the one who talked about funding comparisons. Please look over the thread. My comment was in response to Kim's saying, direct quote,
I feel that I can comment on the appropriateness of spending money for a bus charter (or similar) versus SPOC maintenance. I vote for spending the money on the latter."
Please get your facts straight when you want to attack me, which seems to be a frequent -- albeit puzzling -- urge that you have. -- Joe ________________________________ From: daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] I H8 SPOC Yes, lots of thin skin here. The original thread was focused on roofing technology and how to fix a roof. Joe pulled it sideways when he mentioned funding and the bus trip to the eclipse which was shot down over funding. I just pointed out that SPOC is to SLAS like the manned space program is to scientific space exploration. It eats up the budget so you can't do anything else. I didn't say or imply that SLAS doesn't do public outreach. I just said that you don't need an observatory to do public outreach. You also don't need to drive to Bryce to do it. My preference is to spend the clubs budget in the Salt Lake Valley. In the comming year when we look for a time slot for star parties at the Natural History Museum, I would prefer taking the slots away from SPOC rather than from Wheeler Farm or the Harmon's events. I'm not alone in these opinions. DT ________________________________ From: Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] I H8 SPOC Joe, I think you are perhaps too thinned skinned, as well as too hard on the rest of us. Some postings (including mine) tend to be blunt, but blunt rather than extending to wordiness. You are admired, not only for your growing success in astro-photography, but also your apparent ease in writing (an ease that belies the years of work devoted to learning your craft). Just as you cannot legislate against stupidity, you cannot legislate against jealously. Remember, I got hopped on pretty hard at a board meeting for proposing an idea I thought (and still do) had merit. Keep the faith. 73, lh On 3/6/2012 4:14 PM, Joe Bauman wrote:
Steve, I think someone has a strange grudge against me and doesn't want to give me any credit, and finds it easy to misstate my posts. Of course you're right that it's never been a "SPOC blasting thread." But that's how it goes. -- Joe
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
I meant to say I wasn't the one who brought up the subject, as per Daniel's accusation. Of course I talked about it in response to what Kim said. Why don't you find some other focus for your interest in astronomy, besides making comments about me, Daniel? I'm not that important. -- Joe ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] I H8 SPOC Sigh. Wrong again, as usual, Daniel. I am not the one who talked about funding comparisons. Please look over the thread. My comment was in response to Kim's saying, direct quote,
I feel that I can comment on the appropriateness of spending money for a bus charter (or similar) versus SPOC maintenance. I vote for spending the money on the latter."
Please get your facts straight when you want to attack me, which seems to be a frequent -- albeit puzzling -- urge that you have. -- Joe ________________________________ From: daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] I H8 SPOC Yes, lots of thin skin here. The original thread was focused on roofing technology and how to fix a roof. Joe pulled it sideways when he mentioned funding and the bus trip to the eclipse which was shot down over funding. I just pointed out that SPOC is to SLAS like the manned space program is to scientific space exploration. It eats up the budget so you can't do anything else. I didn't say or imply that SLAS doesn't do public outreach. I just said that you don't need an observatory to do public outreach. You also don't need to drive to Bryce to do it. My preference is to spend the clubs budget in the Salt Lake Valley. In the comming year when we look for a time slot for star parties at the Natural History Museum, I would prefer taking the slots away from SPOC rather than from Wheeler Farm or the Harmon's events. I'm not alone in these opinions. DT ________________________________ From: Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] I H8 SPOC Joe, I think you are perhaps too thinned skinned, as well as too hard on the rest of us. Some postings (including mine) tend to be blunt, but blunt rather than extending to wordiness. You are admired, not only for your growing success in astro-photography, but also your apparent ease in writing (an ease that belies the years of work devoted to learning your craft). Just as you cannot legislate against stupidity, you cannot legislate against jealously. Remember, I got hopped on pretty hard at a board meeting for proposing an idea I thought (and still do) had merit. Keep the faith. 73, lh On 3/6/2012 4:14 PM, Joe Bauman wrote:
Steve, I think someone has a strange grudge against me and doesn't want to give me any credit, and finds it easy to misstate my posts. Of course you're right that it's never been a "SPOC blasting thread." But that's how it goes. -- Joe
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
Apologies to all - yes, I did make the comment about spending money on a bus versus spending money at SPOC. I should have been clearer: I prefer to see SLAS funds diverted to SPOC as needed rather than to other club interests such as a possible bus trip, even if all SLAS members were so inclined and accommodated. SPOC does not serve just a few members of some elite observing group. I applaud those who have trained to operate the scopes and if they then can also use them for private viewing, that's another reason why the place was built. However, as I recall the conversation (and much of it occurred during my tenure as SLAS president) SLAS's investment at SPOC was primarily to continue public outreach. Also as I recall, SPOC users pay an annual fee for keys, not for maintenance. Due to the efforts of those who were primarily involved in obtaining funds for SPOC we were fortunate to have money left over to set aside for the proverbial rainy day (or, in the case of the leaking dome, the not-so-proverbial rain), but there's no endowment or permanent fund to take care of the occasional expense such as this that will arise. If the SPOC fund does not have sufficient $$ for infrequent or expensive repairs such as the groundwater problem or the roof, then I think it's appropriate to divert other SLAS resources to cover the costs. Joe, please don't stop posting to UA. Your friends still like to hear from you, even if once in awhile one of us disagrees. My turn to shut my mouth. Or stop punching the keyboard. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 12:05 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Fw: I H8 SPOC I meant to say I wasn't the one who brought up the subject, as per Daniel's accusation. Of course I talked about it in response to what Kim said. Why don't you find some other focus for your interest in astronomy, besides making comments about me, Daniel? I'm not that important. -- Joe
Excellently elucidated, Steve. I enjoyed your post immensely. Even with what write ups there are in the literature, I do not see any club coming close to our outreach program. 73, lh On 3/6/2012 4:01 PM, Steve Fisher wrote:
"SPOC blasting thread"? I must have missed a post. I didn't see any invitation to blast SPOC.
Elucidated? I had to look that one up, and I watch The O'Riley Factor. ;-) Learn something new every day. That's what I say. Steve
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 18:10:52 -0700 From: larry@kijoda.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] I H8 SPOC
Excellently elucidated, Steve. I enjoyed your post immensely. Even with what write ups there are in the literature, I do not see any club coming close to our outreach program. 73, lh
On 3/6/2012 4:01 PM, Steve Fisher wrote:
"SPOC blasting thread"? I must have missed a post. I didn't see any invitation to blast SPOC.
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Fiberglass strips won't bond to metal with good results. Even using epoxy won't give good long-lasting results. Butyl adhesive caulking will be the best bet, but only if properly pre-prepped. Among all of the "good" products for this use, butyl is among the cheapest also, though it can be a bit hard to find sometimes. Another idea for it is spray urethane foam coating. Far more expensive yes, but it does have the advantage of being long lasting and a great insulator. -Barrett -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Wiggins Strips of fiberglass? Ideas?
Barrett, we may be getting a bit off-topic discussing building materials, but I have to disagree with you about the urethane, especially if what you had in mind is the aerosol cans of expanding foam that one can buy at any hardware store. I'm pretty sure that the urethane won't work because it is not intended to be exposed to water, sunlight, and/or extremes in temperature and thermal movement. If Home Depot or similar doesn't carry butyl, roofing supply places will. It is dispensed in tubes, just like most other sealants. For some uses it is also available in pre-formed rolls or strips, but I think the normal tube-dispensed sealant is what will be wanted. If the dome is disassembled, or at least the joints un-bolted, maybe one-at-a-time, a compressible gasket could be installed. (Patrick, maybe that's what you had in mind with "fiberglass strips"?) Butyl in the strip-form could also be installed. While either would be a good solution, it also may be too much work, and if so, the alternative is to install sealant form the exterior, using backer rods where gaps are large enough. I'm just thinking out loud... Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Barrett Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:06 AM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome Fiberglass strips won't bond to metal with good results. Even using epoxy won't give good long-lasting results. Butyl adhesive caulking will be the best bet, but only if properly pre-prepped. Among all of the "good" products for this use, butyl is among the cheapest also, though it can be a bit hard to find sometimes. Another idea for it is spray urethane foam coating. Far more expensive yes, but it does have the advantage of being long lasting and a great insulator. -Barrett
Oops - forgot one other thing: Barrett is right; epoxies will NOT work. Even if there were an epoxy made for such a purpose, the extreme heat possible in summer is likely to de-polymerize the epoxy. I only know of construction epoxies made for purposes that do not involve such extremes, such as bonding bolts or reinforcing steel in concrete, or similar uses in substrate materials not generally exposed to extremes of any kind. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Kim Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:47 AM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome Barrett, we may be getting a bit off-topic discussing building materials, but I have to disagree with you about the urethane, especially if what you had in mind is the aerosol cans of expanding foam that one can buy at any hardware store. I'm pretty sure that the urethane won't work because it is not intended to be exposed to water, sunlight, and/or extremes in temperature and thermal movement. If Home Depot or similar doesn't carry butyl, roofing supply places will. It is dispensed in tubes, just like most other sealants. For some uses it is also available in pre-formed rolls or strips, but I think the normal tube-dispensed sealant is what will be wanted. If the dome is disassembled, or at least the joints un-bolted, maybe one-at-a-time, a compressible gasket could be installed. (Patrick, maybe that's what you had in mind with "fiberglass strips"?) Butyl in the strip-form could also be installed. While either would be a good solution, it also may be too much work, and if so, the alternative is to install sealant form the exterior, using backer rods where gaps are large enough. I'm just thinking out loud... Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Barrett Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:06 AM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome Fiberglass strips won't bond to metal with good results. Even using epoxy won't give good long-lasting results. Butyl adhesive caulking will be the best bet, but only if properly pre-prepped. Among all of the "good" products for this use, butyl is among the cheapest also, though it can be a bit hard to find sometimes. Another idea for it is spray urethane foam coating. Far more expensive yes, but it does have the advantage of being long lasting and a great insulator. -Barrett _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
Couple of questions: 1: What's the budget? 2: How often do you want to repeat this exercise? My recommendation would be to sand-blast all the bolted metal-to-metal joints right down to bare metal, then weld all joints closed with a wire-feed welder. This only leaves the wood-to-metal joints around the now non-operational slit, which would be addressed with flashing, as Kim suggested, and the best sealant the club can afford. Re-seal and repaint the whole thing afterwards. Probably a three-or-four weekend operation, start to finish, depending on number of helpers. Having helped assemble the dome in it's original configuration, pre-Refractor House, I am familiar with it's construction and think that while welding most of the seams closed would be a bit time-consuming (the prep work, mostly), it's a one-time deal at the most long-lasting, at least for our lifetimes. There are also now some specialized manufacturing epoxies that would last for up to ten years before de-bonding to metal, but those are expensive and require proper prep, as well. I'm sticking with the welding option for best bang-for-the buck, and long-term stability.
Not just that, but the coefficient of expansion is far different and will cause delamination. I doubt that it would last a year. -Barrett -----Original Message----- To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome Oops - forgot one other thing: Barrett is right; epoxies will NOT work. Even if there were an epoxy made for such a purpose, the extreme heat possible in summer is likely to de-polymerize the epoxy. I only know of construction epoxies made for purposes that do not involve such extremes, such as bonding bolts or reinforcing steel in concrete, or similar uses in substrate materials not generally exposed to extremes of any kind.
LOL, no- what I was referring to is the industrial roof coating that is sprayed on commercially, just for this type of application. It works great and lasts a long time, easily repairable- but it is pricey. I say that butyl is the best way to go overall. -Barrett -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Kim Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:47 AM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome Barrett, we may be getting a bit off-topic discussing building materials, but I have to disagree with you about the urethane, especially if what you had in mind is the aerosol cans of expanding foam that one can buy at any hardware store. I'm pretty sure that the urethane won't work because it is not intended to be exposed to water, sunlight, and/or extremes in temperature and thermal movement. If Home Depot or similar doesn't carry butyl, roofing supply places will. It is dispensed in tubes, just like most other sealants. For some uses it is also available in pre-formed rolls or strips, but I think the normal tube-dispensed sealant is what will be wanted.
OK - I get it now. Yes, that is an option that could work, but now I'm liking Chuck's suggestion to weld the sucker tight. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Barrett Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:35 AM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome LOL, no- what I was referring to is the industrial roof coating that is sprayed on commercially, just for this type of application. It works great and lasts a long time, easily repairable- but it is pricey. I say that butyl is the best way to go overall. -Barrett -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Kim Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:47 AM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Seeking suggestions for repairing RH dome Barrett, we may be getting a bit off-topic discussing building materials, but I have to disagree with you about the urethane, especially if what you had in mind is the aerosol cans of expanding foam that one can buy at any hardware store. I'm pretty sure that the urethane won't work because it is not intended to be exposed to water, sunlight, and/or extremes in temperature and thermal movement. If Home Depot or similar doesn't carry butyl, roofing supply places will. It is dispensed in tubes, just like most other sealants. For some uses it is also available in pre-formed rolls or strips, but I think the normal tube-dispensed sealant is what will be wanted. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
Patrick there is an acoustic sealant that remains flexible despite temperature changes, this could be applies in the seams and stop the leaks. A 2nd spray on barrier/ insulating foam could be applied after the leak problem has be mitigated. Aloha rob We did this procedure with one of our domes here on Haleakala
participants (11)
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Barrett -
Chuck Hards -
Daniel Holmes -
daniel turner -
erikhansen＠thebluezone.net -
Joe Bauman -
Kim -
Larry Holmes -
Patrick Wiggins -
Rob Ratkowski Photography -
Steve Fisher