USGS Report: Gas and Oil around and in NP in southern Utah; More dark skies at serious risk.
Well, it isn't just the San Rafael Swell that has drilling plans. The Paradox Basin, mainly in Utah and in parts of Colorado, New Mexico and Arizona (heard of the four corners region) is tagged for opening for oil and gas development. Here is the report by the USGS: http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2012/3031/FS12-3031.pdf "The findings are based on using a geology-based assessment methodology, the U.S. Geological Survey estimated means of 560 million barrels of undiscovered oil, 12,701 billion cubic feet of undiscovered natural gas, and 490 million barrels of undiscovered natural gas liquids in the Paradox Basin of Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, and Arizona." The Paradox Basin is around the major NP's in southern Utah, from Bryce in the West, Capitol Reef, up to Canyonlands and Arches. A friend of mine, Mike who lives in Wyoming, states in his opinion, but his opinion is based on facts and reports open to the public if one has the time to request and/or look them up (he is retired). "Yes, there is oil and gas everywhere in and around the famous national parks of southeastern Utah. And before you think, "But they can't drill in national parks!", think again. The gas and oil industry already drills in 12 national parks/preserves. With $40 billion in tax breaks, widespread state and local support, astounding profits, and blooming foreign markets, expect them to drill, drill, drill. It is the ending of dark skies from National Parks from Bryce, to Capitol Reef, to Arches and Canyonlands and other such pristine areas." It is no wonder Utah wants control of all this land. I guess observing at dark sites in Utah will be limited to the West Desert . . . as LP hits the major parks from the oil and gas wells that are drilled.
Only during your lifetime, Jay. I'm not a fan of drilling indiscriminately, but it must be remembered that fossil fuels will be exhausted in a generation or three, and then everything gets dark again. With gas prices the way they are, I can't even afford to drive to a National Park more than maybe once a year anyway. Mr. Fusion can't get here fast enough. On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 9:14 PM, Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com> wrote:
It is no wonder Utah wants control of all this land. I guess observing at dark sites in Utah will be limited to the West Desert . . . as LP hits the major parks from the oil and gas wells that are drilled. _______________________________________________
The gas is being used for electricity production, with the aim to export it to Europe and Asia. CNG goes for 10 times the price in Asia, so it is cheap here now until the infrastructure is built for exporting. I heard an industry spokesperson say fracking has negatively impacted only 1 % of Americans, isn't that over 1 million people.
Big Oil does not see this as a bridge fuel, they think it is the answer. Only during your lifetime, Jay. I'm not a fan of drilling
indiscriminately, but it must be remembered that fossil fuels will be exhausted in a generation or three, and then everything gets dark again.
With gas prices the way they are, I can't even afford to drive to a National Park more than maybe once a year anyway.
Mr. Fusion can't get here fast enough.
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 9:14 PM, Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com> wrote:
It is no wonder Utah wants control of all this land. I guess observing at dark sites in Utah will be limited to the West Desert . . . as LP hits the major parks from the oil and gas wells that are drilled. _______________________________________________
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It doesn't matter what anybody thinks, sooner or later the fossil fuel will all be gone. It may take a couple of hundred years, but that's not long. Only in terms of a human lifespan does it seem like a relatively long time. Big Oil has been around for four or five generations now, but it only has six to ten left, then it's gone for good.. Preserving wilderness is actually kind of a strange concept, really, in light of continental drift, subduction, erosrion, etc. It's all going to go-away eventually, and new geologic formations and bio-zones will take it's place. What we have right now is just a snapshot of the ever-changing surface of earth. National Parks aren't forever. Is this idea just too long-term to have any meaning for here and now? Perhaps. On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Erik Hansen <erikhansen@thebluezone.net>wrote:
Big Oil does not see this as a bridge fuel, they think it is the answer.
It is incompatible with the water resources of the SW, period. I saw an exchange between an activists and an oil man. The oil man claimed water can be "clean" but not drinkable, they should not exempt to the Clean Drinking Water Act. A lot of damage has been done in the last decade, even 20 more would be devastating. They need want to develop the shale deposits in more and more sensitive areas.
It doesn't matter what anybody thinks, sooner or later the fossil fuel will all be gone. It may take a couple of hundred years, but that's not long. Only in terms of a human lifespan does it seem like a relatively long time. Big Oil has been around for four or five generations now, but it only has six to ten left, then it's gone for good..
Preserving wilderness is actually kind of a strange concept, really, in light of continental drift, subduction, erosrion, etc.
It's all going to go-away eventually, and new geologic formations and bio-zones will take it's place. What we have right now is just a snapshot of the ever-changing surface of earth. National Parks aren't forever.
Is this idea just too long-term to have any meaning for here and now? Perhaps.
On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Erik Hansen <erikhansen@thebluezone.net>wrote:
Big Oil does not see this as a bridge fuel, they think it is the answer.
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And someday the sun will become a planetary nova. But looking at everything from that sort of standpoint is not helpful for our generation's real dilemmas. Wilderness and solitude may be actual needs for some people, including me. -- Joe ________________________________ From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] USGS Report: Gas and Oil around and in NP in southern Utah; More dark skies at serious risk. It doesn't matter what anybody thinks, sooner or later the fossil fuel will all be gone. It may take a couple of hundred years, but that's not long. Only in terms of a human lifespan does it seem like a relatively long time. Big Oil has been around for four or five generations now, but it only has six to ten left, then it's gone for good.. Preserving wilderness is actually kind of a strange concept, really, in light of continental drift, subduction, erosrion, etc. It's all going to go-away eventually, and new geologic formations and bio-zones will take it's place. What we have right now is just a snapshot of the ever-changing surface of earth. National Parks aren't forever. Is this idea just too long-term to have any meaning for here and now? Perhaps. On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Erik Hansen <erikhansen@thebluezone.net>wrote:
Big Oil does not see this as a bridge fuel, they think it is the answer.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
4 or 5 generations? You really need to go somewhere where people don't marry at 17.
And someday the sun will become a planetary nova. But looking at everything from that sort of standpoint is not helpful for our generation's real dilemmas. Wilderness and solitude may be actual needs for some people, including me. -- Joe
________________________________ From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] USGS Report: Gas and Oil around and in NP in southern Utah; More dark skies at serious risk.
It doesn't matter what anybody thinks, sooner or later the fossil fuel will all be gone. It may take a couple of hundred years, but that's not long. Only in terms of a human lifespan does it seem like a relatively long time. Big Oil has been around for four or five generations now, but it only has six to ten left, then it's gone for good..
Preserving wilderness is actually kind of a strange concept, really, in light of continental drift, subduction, erosrion, etc.
It's all going to go-away eventually, and new geologic formations and bio-zones will take it's place. What we have right now is just a snapshot of the ever-changing surface of earth. National Parks aren't forever.
Is this idea just too long-term to have any meaning for here and now? Perhaps.
On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Erik Hansen <erikhansen@thebluezone.net>wrote:
Big Oil does not see this as a bridge fuel, they think it is the answer.
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Me too, but I know a lot of women who were grandmas at 30.
Naw, I like living in Utah.
And by the way, I first proposed to my wife when she was 16.
:-)
On Aug 23, 2013 3:23 PM, "Erik Hansen" <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
4 or 5 generations? You really need to go somewhere where people don't marry at 17.
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Affordable energy is an actual need for a lot of people, too, Joe. Look, I'm not a "drill, baby, drill" advocate. But likewise I haven't found a lot of solitude in most of the National Parks I've visited, at least during 3 seasons of the year. I'm sure you would be mostly alone in January in most of them. They are typically crawling with thousands of people, all crammed into small spaces around the edges of the cordoned-off vistas. The places where visitors are allowed are not wilderness anymore. You want solitude? Let's go to an isolated place here in the west I know of, about 70 miles north of Battle Mountain, Nevada. Not a foreign tourist, group of bicyclists, or family of of loud kids and dogs, for miles. Just the occassional cow and coyote. And no drilling rigs. No amazing red-rock formations either, but the sky is pretty darn dark. On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
And someday the sun will become a planetary nova. But looking at everything from that sort of standpoint is not helpful for our generation's real dilemmas. Wilderness and solitude may be actual needs for some people, including me. -- Joe
Chuck, that could almost apply to any place in Nevada. 73 Sent from my iPad On Aug 23, 2013, at 4:42 PM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Affordable energy is an actual need for a lot of people, too, Joe.
Look, I'm not a "drill, baby, drill" advocate. But likewise I haven't found a lot of solitude in most of the National Parks I've visited, at least during 3 seasons of the year. I'm sure you would be mostly alone in January in most of them. They are typically crawling with thousands of people, all crammed into small spaces around the edges of the cordoned-off vistas. The places where visitors are allowed are not wilderness anymore.
You want solitude? Let's go to an isolated place here in the west I know of, about 70 miles north of Battle Mountain, Nevada. Not a foreign tourist, group of bicyclists, or family of of loud kids and dogs, for miles. Just the occassional cow and coyote. And no drilling rigs. No amazing red-rock formations either, but the sky is pretty darn dark.
On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
And someday the sun will become a planetary nova. But looking at everything from that sort of standpoint is not helpful for our generation's real dilemmas. Wilderness and solitude may be actual needs for some people, including me. -- Joe
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Heard the BLM held a lease sale for parcels in the west desert, no bidders. Green River Nuclear Plant is coming under fire for water use from the Green River. The SE simply does not have the water for oil and gas development. Colorado for example is pushing for a pipeline from Flaming Gorge because fracking has put a strain on their water resources.It will be interesting to see the reaction from Arizona, California, and Nevada to receiving less water. 90% of Las Vegas water comes from the Colorado. The fracking in the Dallas/Fort Worth area is an environmental disaster. Erik Well, it isn't just the San Rafael Swell that has drilling plans. The
Paradox Basin, mainly in Utah and in parts of Colorado, New Mexico and Arizona (heard of the four corners region) is tagged for opening for oil and gas development. Here is the report by the USGS:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2012/3031/FS12-3031.pdf
"The findings are based on using a geology-based assessment methodology, the U.S. Geological Survey estimated means of 560 million barrels of undiscovered oil, 12,701 billion cubic feet of undiscovered natural gas, and 490 million barrels of undiscovered natural gas liquids in the Paradox Basin of Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, and Arizona."
The Paradox Basin is around the major NP's in southern Utah, from Bryce in the West, Capitol Reef, up to Canyonlands and Arches.
A friend of mine, Mike who lives in Wyoming, states in his opinion, but his opinion is based on facts and reports open to the public if one has the time to request and/or look them up (he is retired).
"Yes, there is oil and gas everywhere in and around the famous national parks of southeastern Utah. And before you think, "But they can't drill in national parks!", think again. The gas and oil industry already drills in 12 national parks/preserves. With $40 billion in tax breaks, widespread state and local support, astounding profits, and blooming foreign markets, expect them to drill, drill, drill. It is the ending of dark skies from National Parks from Bryce, to Capitol Reef, to Arches and Canyonlands and other such pristine areas."
It is no wonder Utah wants control of all this land. I guess observing at dark sites in Utah will be limited to the West Desert . . . as LP hits the major parks from the oil and gas wells that are drilled. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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participants (5)
-
Chuck Hards -
Erik Hansen -
Jay Eads -
Joe Bauman -
Larry Holmes