Re: [Utah-astronomy] Sunday Funnies
Lets help educate the masses before it is too late. -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Hards Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 5:55 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Sunday Funnies I love a good laugh at my fellow man's expense. One of my favorites was a line from an episode of "The Simpsons". A comet was on a collision course with earth and science was unable to provide any help. Fortunately the "comet" burned up in the atmosphere and was reduced to a rock the size of a chihuahua's head (and fell right at Bart's feet, who discovered it one night while observing with principal Skinner as punishment). Moe the bartender speaks up and yells at the gathered mob, "Let's go burn down the observatory so this sort of thing never happens again!" (LMAO!) The moral of these kinds of things is that intelligent, scientifically literate people tend to congregate, and are usually unaware that most people live their lives on a very simple level, as far as their understanding of nature goes. But we (if I may be so bold as to include myself) are a TINY minority and will be the first against the wall when the animals start rioting. Guy will be much more appreciated then, I assure you! Be afraid. Be very afraid. On 7/29/07, Ann House <ann@annhouse.org> wrote:
In this morning's Parade magazine, Marilyn vosSavant lists questions she has received that she says are just too funny to answer. I must admit, all you can do is laugh at the amazing things that go through people's minds. Among these are a few astronomy-related questions:
Where did all the stars go? In the '50s, the sky was loaded with them. -St. Petersburg, FL
Do you think daylight-saving time could be contributing to global warming? The longer we have sunlight, the more it heats the atmosphere. -San Antonio, TX
I see falling stars nearly every night. They seem to come out of nowhere. Have stars ever fallen out of any known constellations? -Batesville, AK
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That's pretty noble, Gary, but if it hasn't happened in 400 years, I don't hold out much hope for anything changing in my lifetime. Soapbox time: 30+ years ago, I was very active in astronomy public outreach. I'd tote my slide projector and 8-inch scope around to schools and churches, scout camps, even the state fair- to give presentations and star-parties. I could tell that it only made a real impression on perhaps one in a hundred people, and they were usually interested in science already, anyway. The rest were entertained and amused for the time they were there, but forgot just about everything as soon as they walked away from the eyepiece. People today, as always, I suspect, are for the most part only concerned with what affects them personally. Many working people don't have the time or energy for intellectual pursuits, and many more are unconcerned with anything other than popular culture and their place in it. Even my own daughter, who was raised in a house where science, astronomy and natural sciences in particular, are held in high regard, is utterly bored by it all. She has absolutely no interest in anything other than purely social matters. Dad and his friends are complete, irredeemable nerds and beyond all hope of understanding what is really worth spending one's time on. My hope is that she will eventually grow out of this self-centered attitude and see that life is bigger than just herself, her iPod, and the mall. My advice and example are ignored for now. It's too bad that Hogwarts wasn't threatened by light pollution. Scientific literacy isn't for everyone. To some people it even contradicts the very foundations of their self-image and must be kept away permanently, even actively fought. These people are all around us, every day- not just in middle-eastern nations or Kansas school-board rooms. Many folks doing the outreach thing today are driven by a desire to share what they have discovered, and I applaud that initiative. If it's reward enough to just show the sky to people, go for it. Some people enjoy the activities of the lecturer, the docent, the guide, the teacher, for their own sake. For others it's the look of amazement as someone sees Saturn in the eyepiece for the first time. Believe me, I've been there, many, many years ago. But if one expects to change society, to educate the masses to the point where it really makes a difference, I think that attitude is somewhat delusional. Just look at light pollution. Despite decades now of awareness and activism, successes have been few and far between, not even trending toward progress. Overall, light pollution is still getting worse around the globe, not better. The real message of more efficient, healthful, and ecconomical lighting is still completely lost on the general public and government officials. The same stereotypical attitudes of "more light is better" still pervade our culture at all levels. One could argue that it might have been much worse without the IDA and there may be something to that, but it certainly isn't any better than it was 30 years ago, either. But, I'm not a total pessimist- more of a realist. I don't think it will ever be "too late", until the last one of our descendants dies-off. It's not a race against time. The forces of ignorance will always be present and will have to be dealt with. As long as there are a few of us, there is hope. Having done it myself, I know that those performing outreach do it as much for themselves as for any nobler purpose. They genuinely enjoy the activity. But making measureable progress against the forces of ignorance is not a reasonable short-term goal. It will take evolutionary timescales for permanent success, historical timescales for measureable success. For now, just igniting a spark in a child's mind, maybe only once in every hundred times, will have to be reward enough. And it should be. On 7/29/07, Gary Vardon <gvardon@webtv.net> wrote:
Lets help educate the masses before it is too late.
I guess it depends on your goal. We certainly have made progress in educating the masses over the past 400 years-- I don't think there's anyone out there who still thinks the earth is flat or that the sun revolves around us. I think everyone knows there are nine planets in our solar system (not many know there is actually only eight though). It takes a long, long time for information to filter downwards. You're right in thinking that a lot of people just don't care unless it affects them personally but awareness is percolating. I am encouraged by the resurge of NASA lunar projects, after a 40 years of not-going-back-to-the-moon. Maybe even a manned mission to Mars? I heard that was on the horizon but seems to have been shelved in favor of a lunar base. These are all measurements of progress, even if it's not towards dark skies. Yet. Society changes slowly, but it does change. We have nothing to lose by continuing to fight the fight and everything to lose by giving up. Eeep! Sorry, I stole the soapbox there. I promise not to do it again! Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Hards" <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: 2007-07-30 07:43 Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Sunday Funnies
That's pretty noble, Gary, but if it hasn't happened in 400 years, I don't hold out much hope for anything changing in my lifetime.
Soapbox time:
30+ years ago, I was very active in astronomy public outreach. I'd tote my slide projector and 8-inch scope around to schools and churches, scout camps, even the state fair- to give presentations and star-parties. I could tell that it only made a real impression on perhaps one in a hundred people, and they were usually interested in science already, anyway. The rest were entertained and amused for the time they were there, but forgot just about everything as soon as they walked away from the eyepiece.
People today, as always, I suspect, are for the most part only concerned with what affects them personally. Many working people don't have the time or energy for intellectual pursuits, and many more are unconcerned with anything other than popular culture and their place in it. Even my own daughter, who was raised in a house where science, astronomy and natural sciences in particular, are held in high regard, is utterly bored by it all. She has absolutely no interest in anything other than purely social matters. Dad and his friends are complete, irredeemable nerds and beyond all hope of understanding what is really worth spending one's time on. My hope is that she will eventually grow out of this self-centered attitude and see that life is bigger than just herself, her iPod, and the mall. My advice and example are ignored for now.
It's too bad that Hogwarts wasn't threatened by light pollution.
Scientific literacy isn't for everyone. To some people it even contradicts the very foundations of their self-image and must be kept away permanently, even actively fought. These people are all around us, every day- not just in middle-eastern nations or Kansas school-board rooms.
Many folks doing the outreach thing today are driven by a desire to share what they have discovered, and I applaud that initiative. If it's reward enough to just show the sky to people, go for it. Some people enjoy the activities of the lecturer, the docent, the guide, the teacher, for their own sake. For others it's the look of amazement as someone sees Saturn in the eyepiece for the first time. Believe me, I've been there, many, many years ago.
But if one expects to change society, to educate the masses to the point where it really makes a difference, I think that attitude is somewhat delusional. Just look at light pollution. Despite decades now of awareness and activism, successes have been few and far between, not even trending toward progress. Overall, light pollution is still getting worse around the globe, not better. The real message of more efficient, healthful, and ecconomical lighting is still completely lost on the general public and government officials. The same stereotypical attitudes of "more light is better" still pervade our culture at all levels. One could argue that it might have been much worse without the IDA and there may be something to that, but it certainly isn't any better than it was 30 years ago, either.
But, I'm not a total pessimist- more of a realist. I don't think it will ever be "too late", until the last one of our descendants dies-off. It's not a race against time. The forces of ignorance will always be present and will have to be dealt with. As long as there are a few of us, there is hope.
Having done it myself, I know that those performing outreach do it as much for themselves as for any nobler purpose. They genuinely enjoy the activity. But making measureable progress against the forces of ignorance is not a reasonable short-term goal. It will take evolutionary timescales for permanent success, historical timescales for measureable success. For now, just igniting a spark in a child's mind, maybe only once in every hundred times, will have to be reward enough. And it should be.
On 7/29/07, Gary Vardon <gvardon@webtv.net> wrote:
Lets help educate the masses before it is too late.
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Julie, the soapbox is yours just as much as mine! By joining this list, you are encouraged to express yourself. The NASA projects are actually a LONG time in coming. When I was young, most scientifically-literate folks were convinced that we would have already had manned missions to Mars, and a huge lunar presence by the turn of the century. The shuttle was supposed to be just a launch vehicle for numerous, more grand projects, yet it took on a life of it's own and became an end unto itself, not a means to an end. It started as the "single-stage-to-orbit, reusable" program. What we ended up with is a compromise and somewhat removed from the original concept (which made more sense than what we have).
From my perspective, the manned space program has been somewhat of a dud since the Apollo program- at least far, far removed from what was talked about back in the sixties. What stalled things out, of course, is the massive price tag for manned space exploration. No-one anticipated back then just how expensive things would get. A non-science-minded electorate has never been in the mood to spend the dollars required to take us to the stars as fast as some of us would like. And it's too bad because the NASA budget has typically always been a mere single-digit percentage of what the military gets. A drop in the bucket.
Privatization of space travel, more specifically, making space travel profitable, is what is needed to accellerate the pace. But again, I don't have much hope for seeing that Lunar Hilton in my lifetime. :o( I did say that outreach was worthwhile- my caveat was that it's a painfully slow process, and wasn't a race to educate the masses "before it's too late", as Gary posted. Light pollution was one convenient example- out of many I could have chosen from. BTW, yes, there are still people who think the earth is flat, the sun revolves around the earth, the earth is hotter in summer because it's closer to the sun, etc...and many of them have higher educations. We haven't come as far in 400 years as you think we have. On 7/30/07, Julie Chorley <jchorley@gmail.com> wrote:
Eeep! Sorry, I stole the soapbox there. I promise not to do it again!
On 30 Jul 2007, at 21:39, Chuck Hards wrote:
Privatization of space travel, more specifically, making space travel profitable, is what is needed to accellerate the pace. But again, I don't have much hope for seeing that Lunar Hilton in my lifetime. :o(
Interesting that you should mention the privatization of space as that is the subject of yesterday's MSNBC Cosmic Log: http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/07/30/297452.aspx pw
That book may be worth a read. I'll keep an eye out for it, thanks Patrick. The current private spaceflight effort as it relates to overall space exploration is directly comparable to personal, ultralight aircraft as they relate to aviation-at-large. A nifty, but small, first step- though hardly capable of making any long-distance, technologically significant contributions in the near term. It's sub-orbital and low-orbit flight on the cheap. Like making a telescope from hardware-store components, while the pro's use Keck. My heart just aches for the men who lost their lives, and their families, but realistically there will be many, many more on this road. Being a pioneer is never easy. On 7/31/07, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> wrote:
On 30 Jul 2007, at 21:39, Chuck Hards wrote:
Privatization of space travel, more specifically, making space travel profitable, is what is needed to accellerate the pace. But again, I don't have much hope for seeing that Lunar Hilton in my lifetime. :o(
Interesting that you should mention the privatization of space as that is the subject of yesterday's MSNBC Cosmic Log:
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/07/30/297452.aspx
pw
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participants (4)
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Chuck Hards -
Gary Vardon -
Julie Chorley -
Patrick Wiggins