Re: [Utah-astronomy] Findings of the Review of US Human Space Flight Plans Committee
I would argue that manned space flight is much more costly, risky and yields less scientific bang for the buck. This does not mean that I am against manned space flight merely that if funds are limited they should go to unmanned missions. Funds for manned missions should be in addition to the funds allocated for unmanned flights. If funds are lacking the manned missions should go. Sincerely, Gary Vardon The book DO It Right will help you understand vital ideas leading to your geater success. GO to PublishAmerica. -----Original Message----- From: Jay Eads Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 2:05 PM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Findings of the Review of US Human Space Flight Plans Committee The Presidential committee led by Norman Augustine chairman of the Review of U.S. Human Space Flight Plans Committee gave their results this week http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0908/12augustine/ in case anyone was interested. Here are some highlights and from it I took it to mean that the current plan is not feasible as funded so changes will be forth coming. Sally Ride a panel member and former astronaut explained that the "unconstrained budge" which would cost an estimated $50 billion means that Orion and Ares I arrive after a 2016 ISS deorbit (at a cost of 1.5 billion) since ISS is only funded through 2015. So the two rockets arrive but have no where to go. If NASA has to live wit the 2010 budget guidelines provided by the Obama administration the Ares 5 heavy lift rocket will not be ready until 2028. Here we have a heavy rocket designed to go to the moon and take material with it but nothing is deployed and no money to fund a lunar system. $3 billion was cut by the Office of Management and Budget from NASA's long-range budget projected last spring, money to be used for the development of the Ares V prior to the Augustine panel being formed. Knowing that a large budget would not pass the Office of Management and Budget right now, and a small budget would not forward exploration I guess they are trying for the just right size. So the proposal does this: 1. Ramps up slowly to $3 billion a year over the budget they've been given until 2020 when the budget follows inflation of 2.4% 2. Astronauts return to the moon in the 2025 timeframe 3. ISS as Russia, Japan, Canada and the ESA want, is left up through at least 2020. 4. IF ISS is left up then Ares I development is probably suspended fueling the money for booster development away from Ares I into the ISS operations (better go see the test on August 25!). 5. Augustine panel favors the development of commercial rockets and capsules to ferry astronauts to and from low-Earth orbit. 6. Augustine panel assessing the trade-off of flying 1 or 2 Space Shuttle Missions a year reducing the gap before the new rocket systems are developed. 7. I found this one perhaps intriguing: "the panel is assessing options for deep space exploration that might bypass the moon in favor of near-Earth asteroids, lunar reconnaissance flybys and even flybys of Mars, with "off ramps" for development of systems for use on the lunar surface and eventual manned landings on Mars." 8. Ares V rocket would be modified and made man rated to carry astronauts. No Ares I development with any of these cases though. Sally Ride's final comment was ""We kept coming up with a common theme, which is this budget is very, very, very hard to fit and still have an exploration program," Ride said. "In fact, we are still looking for an existence proof that we can actually find one. We haven't found one yet, but we're still looking." A few other items are listed, you can read the article. I am beginning to think that if I live to around 75 (2041) I may not live to see man leave low earth orbit. I wonder if we will get out of low earth orbit before the end of this century? I also wonder if emphasis is being placed on non-human exploration methods as they are less risky and can provide scientific breakthroughs with less cost? Or are they facing the same budget constraints as the human exploration side? I think of the comment I read lately by the director of the Mars Explorers. As successful as they have been they have done in 18 months what a man could have done in several weeks. Should we push back human explorations and put that money into other projects of exploration? Do you think you'll see human spaceflight beyond low- earth oribit in your lifetime? _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Elephant trunk http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2181 Western Veil http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2178 Enjoy! David Rankin
Nice images David! I like them both very much. Tyler _____________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of David Rankin Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 2:56 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Two more :) Elephant trunk http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2181 Western Veil http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2178 Enjoy! David Rankin _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Thanks Tyler, You've got some amazing shots in your gallery as well. I plan on eventually getting a good CCD when I can afford it O.o Cheers David Tyler Allred wrote:
Nice images David! I like them both very much. Tyler
_____________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of David Rankin Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 2:56 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Two more :)
Elephant trunk http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2181
Western Veil http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2178
Enjoy!
David Rankin
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Hi David (et al), FWIW, SLAS is offering its SBIG ST-6 for sale. It's old but it works and could make a good starter camera. And since didn't have to pay anything for it in the first place (it was donated) it wont take much of an offer to win. Camera info: http://www.sbig.com/sbwhtmls/st6b.htm patrick On 16 Aug 2009, at 18:08, David Rankin wrote:
Thanks Tyler,
You've got some amazing shots in your gallery as well. I plan on eventually getting a good CCD when I can afford it O.o
Cheers
David
Hi all, Here's my latest blog, following up on a note that Jay Eads put on Utah Astronomy. Comments pro and con further moon landings are earnestly solicited. Best wishes, Joe http://www.deseretnews.com/blogs/1,5322,10000034,00.html?bD=20090818
Does anyone know the topic for tonight's meeting? Tx, Dave
Something concerning "Frontiers of Cosmology"
Does anyone know the topic for tonight's meeting?
Tx,
Dave
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The answer is, "Yes." -- Joe --- On Wed, 8/19/09, Siegfried Jachmann <ziggy943@xmission.com> wrote: From: Siegfried Jachmann <ziggy943@xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tonight's SLAS Meeting Topic To: ""Utah-Astronomy"" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 9:48 PM I know it's a little late but I would not have touched that one anyway. ? Siegfried On 2009-08-18 13:11, Dave Bennett wrote:
Does anyone know the topic for tonight's meeting?
Tx,
Dave
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Yes, there was a meeting?
The answer is, "Yes." -- Joe
--- On Wed, 8/19/09, Siegfried Jachmann <ziggy943@xmission.com> wrote:
From: Siegfried Jachmann <ziggy943@xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tonight's SLAS Meeting Topic To: ""Utah-Astronomy"" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 9:48 PM
I know it's a little late but I would not have touched that one anyway. ?
Siegfried
On 2009-08-18 13:11, Dave Bennett wrote:
Does anyone know the topic for tonight's meeting?
Tx,
Dave
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Just kiddin'. Siegfried got someone riled when he was asked if he knew the topic for a meeting and he jokingly said, "Yes." -- Joe --- On Thu, 8/20/09, erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net <erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net> wrote: From: erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net <erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tonight's SLAS Meeting Topic To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 10:21 AM
Yes, there was a meeting?
The answer is, "Yes." -- Joe
--- On Wed, 8/19/09, Siegfried Jachmann <ziggy943@xmission.com> wrote:
From: Siegfried Jachmann <ziggy943@xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tonight's SLAS Meeting Topic To: ""Utah-Astronomy"" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 9:48 PM
I know it's a little late but I would not have touched that one anyway. ?
Siegfried
On 2009-08-18 13:11, Dave Bennett wrote:
Does anyone know the topic for tonight's meeting?
Tx,
Dave
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For the record, I had been waiting for a response to that question. I had no idea what the listed topic of 'an important shared experience at the frontiers of theoretical cosmology' meant, so I was hoping for a little more detail, something that would tell me what was actually happening, and whether it would be worth putting aside other tasks for the evening. The responses were distinctly unhelpful. I suspect others may have felt the same way. Jo Quoting Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com>:
Just kiddin'. Siegfried got someone riled when he was asked if he knew the topic for a meeting and he jokingly said, "Yes." -- Joe
--- On Thu, 8/20/09, erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net <erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net> wrote:
From: erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net <erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tonight's SLAS Meeting Topic To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 10:21 AM
Yes, there was a meeting?
The answer is, "Yes." -- Joe
--- On Wed, 8/19/09, Siegfried Jachmann <ziggy943@xmission.com> wrote:
From: Siegfried Jachmann <ziggy943@xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tonight's SLAS Meeting Topic To: ""Utah-Astronomy"" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 9:48 PM
I know it's a little late but I would not have touched that one anyway. ?
Siegfried
On 2009-08-18 13:11, Dave Bennett wrote:
Does anyone know the topic for tonight's meeting?
Tx,
Dave
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I think we got spoiled by Bob and Lowell who had speakers lined up and scheduled months in advance. It seems Dave either fails to inform or just does not know very far in advance. The SLAS blast did seem to indicate a different topic than was delivered. There was a meeting though, although it is nice to know the topic in advance.
Every President is different, lately we seem lucky just to fill all the board positions. For the record, I had been waiting for a response to that question. I
had no idea what the listed topic of 'an important shared experience at the frontiers of theoretical cosmology' meant, so I was hoping for a little more detail, something that would tell me what was actually happening, and whether it would be worth putting aside other tasks for the evening. The responses were distinctly unhelpful. I suspect others may have felt the same way.
Jo
Quoting Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com>:
Just kiddin'. Siegfried got someone riled when he was asked if he knew the topic for a meeting and he jokingly said, "Yes." -- Joe
--- On Thu, 8/20/09, erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net <erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net> wrote:
From: erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net <erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tonight's SLAS Meeting Topic To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 10:21 AM
Yes, there was a meeting?
The answer is, "Yes." -- Joe
--- On Wed, 8/19/09, Siegfried Jachmann <ziggy943@xmission.com> wrote:
From: Siegfried Jachmann <ziggy943@xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tonight's SLAS Meeting Topic To: ""Utah-Astronomy"" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 9:48 PM
I know it's a little late but I would not have touched that one anyway. ?
Siegfried
On 2009-08-18 13:11, Dave Bennett wrote:
Does anyone know the topic for tonight's meeting?
Tx,
Dave
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Dave said at this month's board meeting that he has speakers lined up through the end of the year. But as luck would have it, the guy who was to speak this month couldn't make it. patrick
Oh yes, the joy of being president, the last minute cancelation.
Dave said at this month's board meeting that he has speakers lined up
through the end of the year.
But as luck would have it, the guy who was to speak this month couldn't make it.
patrick
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Of course, one of life's pleasures is listening to Dave talk about the night sky, so when he is the speaker, we really try to make it... :). Jo Quoting erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net:
Oh yes, the joy of being president, the last minute cancelation.
Dave said at this month's board meeting that he has speakers lined up
through the end of the year.
But as luck would have it, the guy who was to speak this month couldn't make it.
patrick
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Jo, For the record my response was after the meeting was over. It wasn't intended to be helpful. It couldn't have been helpful in deciding whether or not to go to the meeting!! I suspect others realized the response was after the fact. Siegfried Author: Josephine Grahn Date: 2009-08-21 16:05 -600 To: utah-astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tonight's SLAS Meeting Topic For the record, I had been waiting for a response to that question. I had no idea what the listed topic of 'an important shared experience at the frontiers of theoretical cosmology' meant, so I was hoping for a little more detail, something that would tell me what was actually happening, and whether it would be worth putting aside other tasks for the evening. The responses were distinctly unhelpful. I suspect others may have felt the same way. Jo Quoting Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@???>:
Just kiddin'. Siegfried got someone riled when he was asked if he knew the topic for a meeting and he jokingly said, "Yes." -- Joe
--- On Thu, 8/20/09, erikhansen@??? <erikhansen@???> wrote:
From: erikhansen@??? <erikhansen@???> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tonight's SLAS Meeting Topic To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@???> Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 10:21 AM
Yes, there was a meeting?
The answer is, "Yes." -- Joe
--- On Wed, 8/19/09, Siegfried Jachmann <ziggy943@???> wrote:
From: Siegfried Jachmann <ziggy943@???> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tonight's SLAS Meeting Topic To: ""Utah-Astronomy"" <utah-astronomy@???> Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 9:48 PM
I know it's a little late but I would not have touched that one anyway. ?
Siegfried
On 2009-08-18 13:11, Dave Bennett wrote:
Does anyone know the topic for tonight's meeting?
Tx,
Dave
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Hi Siegfried, My comment was meant to point out that no helpful responses were made to the request for information, (and Patrick has pointed out the reason for that, a speaker who backed out at the last minute). It was just a coincidence that your joke was also part of that discussion. The only responses made prior to the meeting had been deleted from my computer. I had no intention of implying that you were the problem. It seemed clear to me from the context of the post that your joke was made after the meeting. However, as long as the thread was going to be maintained, it seemed worthwhile to point out that, in the future, an effort to make a coherent response should be taken seriously. As I say, it was, and Patrick explained the problem, which I appreciated. I am sorry if any one assumed that I thought you were the problem, That was not my intent. Jo Quoting Siegfried Jachmann <ziggy943@xmission.com>:
Jo,
For the record my response was after the meeting was over. It wasn't intended to be helpful. It couldn't have been helpful in deciding whether or not to go to the meeting!! I suspect others realized the response was after the fact.
Siegfried
Author: Josephine Grahn Date: 2009-08-21 16:05 -600 To: utah-astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tonight's SLAS Meeting Topic
For the record, I had been waiting for a response to that question. I had no idea what the listed topic of 'an important shared experience at the frontiers of theoretical cosmology' meant, so I was hoping for a little more detail, something that would tell me what was actually happening, and whether it would be worth putting aside other tasks for the evening. The responses were distinctly unhelpful. I suspect others may have felt the same way.
Jo
Quoting Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@???>:
Just kiddin'. Siegfried got someone riled when he was asked if he knew the topic for a meeting and he jokingly said, "Yes." -- Joe
--- On Thu, 8/20/09, erikhansen@??? <erikhansen@???> wrote:
From: erikhansen@??? <erikhansen@???> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tonight's SLAS Meeting Topic To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@???> Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 10:21 AM
Yes, there was a meeting?
The answer is, "Yes." -- Joe
--- On Wed, 8/19/09, Siegfried Jachmann <ziggy943@???> wrote:
From: Siegfried Jachmann <ziggy943@???> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tonight's SLAS Meeting Topic To: ""Utah-Astronomy"" <utah-astronomy@???> Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 9:48 PM
I know it's a little late but I would not have touched that one anyway. ?
Siegfried
On 2009-08-18 13:11, Dave Bennett wrote:
Does anyone know the topic for tonight's meeting?
Tx,
Dave
FYI, I spoke with Dave at the star party last night and he said he plans on adding meeting topic information for each meeting to the online SLAS schedule (http://slas.us/CALENDAR.ASP). patrick
participants (9)
-
Dave Bennett -
David Rankin -
erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net -
Gary Vardon -
Joe Bauman -
Josephine Grahn -
Patrick Wiggins -
Siegfried Jachmann -
Tyler Allred