Alton Mine Hearing is tomorrow, Wed. 12-7 - SLAS formal action?
The Alton Mine hearing for Salt Lake City is tomorrow: Salt Lake City, UT December 7th, 2011 Salt Lake City Library, 210 E 400 S 6:00pm-8:00pm I have a class in Sandy starting at 7pm, and I will not be there. The comment period ends in January, but the BLM website states that ``ends on January 6, 2012'' and comment may be submitted by email to UT_Kanab_Altoncoal at blm dot gov . I believe that comments will be accepted even if submitted reasonably after the closing date. Since political participation in Utah is best done in groups and not as individuals (in order to avoid the Utah well-known type of employment retaliatory conduct mentioned by others in an early post), perhaps this is something that the SLAS transition board should consider. That the Alton mine comment period expires on Jan. 6 should be a practical barrier. Q1 for discussion: Should the SLAS Board consider filing an organizational comment on the Alton Mine DEIS? I am not suggesting any action related to the Dec. 7 hearing. My suggestion goes to a written organizational comment on the Alton Mine DEIS. While SLAS is an apolitical association, should SLAS as an organization consider other dark sky activities? SLAS is apolitical in that the diversity of its conservative and liberal members results in a social consensus of avoiding political matters, and SLAS is organized as a 501(c)(3) corporation. While I am not a legal expert on 501(c)(3) matters, generally, I understand that although 501(c)(3) cannot make contributions or advocate for the election of any public official, a 501(c)(3) organization can influence and lobby regarding legislation, as long as a substantial portion of its income is not dedicated to lobbying. Q2 for discussion: Should SLAS as an organization pursue federal legislation establishing a framework to establish dark sky preserves on federal lands Utah and or Nevada? Should SLAS as an organization pursue federal legislation to establish a specific dark sky preserve(s) in Utah and or Nevada? In 2009, the International Dark Sky Association recognized Utah's Natural Bridges Monument as an International Dark Sky Reserve. http://data.nextrionet.com/site/idsa/PR_Natural_Bridges_2007.pdf That recognition and designation is private, and it is not legally enforceable. Although the Park Service has legal authority to preserve dark sky values within park boundaries, that authority is practically useless, unless dark sky lighting enforcement authority is recognized and implemented on surrounding federal BLM lands. Although the BLM arguably might have dark sky regulatory authority under the Federal Land Management and Policy Act of 1976, the Alton Coal Mine application demonstrates that whatever authority the BLM may have, will not be applied. In this context, a dark sky preserve means a special service district with the right to enforce lighting restrictions around and outside of a designated dark sky site, e.g. a Utah or Nevada state or federal park. There are many United States and international dark sky preserve zones, both private and public. Some of the public venues have lighting regulatory power. See list at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark-sky_preserve#cite_note-1 Many of the areas in the United States are associated with observatories. Some, like Michigan's State Lake Huron Recreation Area and Pennsylvania's Cherry Hills State Park, are associated with park lands. Internationally, Canada has designated its Jasper Canadian National Park as a dark sky preserve with lighting regulatory authority. But in the United States, public regulated dark sky preserves are principally associated with observatories. For example, in the United States, the MacDonald Observatory, Palomar Observatory, and Kitt Peak have legal authority to regulate lighting varying from 40 to 90 kilometers around each site. Another precedent for electro-magnetic radiation pollution control is the United States National Radio Quiet Zone, that was designated for defense purposes around the Green Banks Radio Observatory across state boundaries of Virgina and West Virgina. An alternative is for SLAS as an organization to take no action and to continue to rely on the efforts of preexisting dark sky advocacy groups like the IDA. Considering that the Alton Mine dark sky expert is an Arizona-based former president of the IDA, maybe SLAS should reconsider the group's default no action practice, and SLAS should reconsider if it should start taking care of Utah's own as an organization. Clear Skies - Canopus56
My answer as a club member, Q1= No. Q2= No. We are a club and the club should not be invlolved. Individual members are as you say able to participate in the IDA or any other group that they wish. Steve
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 14:08:45 -0800 From: canopus56@yahoo.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Alton Mine Hearing is tomorrow, Wed. 12-7 - SLAS formal action?
The Alton Mine hearing for Salt Lake City is tomorrow:
Salt Lake City, UT December 7th, 2011 Salt Lake City Library, 210 E 400 S 6:00pm-8:00pm
I have a class in Sandy starting at 7pm, and I will not be there.
The comment period ends in January, but the BLM website states that ``ends on January 6, 2012'' and comment may be submitted by email to UT_Kanab_Altoncoal at blm dot gov . I believe that comments will be accepted even if submitted reasonably after the closing date.
Since political participation in Utah is best done in groups and not as individuals (in order to avoid the Utah well-known type of employment retaliatory conduct mentioned by others in an early post), perhaps this is something that the SLAS transition board should consider. That the Alton mine comment period expires on Jan. 6 should be a practical barrier.
Q1 for discussion: Should the SLAS Board consider filing an organizational comment on the Alton Mine DEIS?
I am not suggesting any action related to the Dec. 7 hearing. My suggestion goes to a written organizational comment on the Alton Mine DEIS.
While SLAS is an apolitical association, should SLAS as an organization consider other dark sky activities? SLAS is apolitical in that the diversity of its conservative and liberal members results in a social consensus of avoiding political matters, and SLAS is organized as a 501(c)(3) corporation. While I am not a legal expert on 501(c)(3) matters, generally, I understand that although 501(c)(3) cannot make contributions or advocate for the election of any public official, a 501(c)(3) organization can influence and lobby regarding legislation, as long as a substantial portion of its income is not dedicated to lobbying.
Q2 for discussion: Should SLAS as an organization pursue federal legislation establishing a framework to establish dark sky preserves on federal lands Utah and or Nevada? Should SLAS as an organization pursue federal legislation to establish a specific dark sky preserve(s) in Utah and or Nevada?
In 2009, the International Dark Sky Association recognized Utah's Natural Bridges Monument as an International Dark Sky Reserve.
http://data.nextrionet.com/site/idsa/PR_Natural_Bridges_2007.pdf
That recognition and designation is private, and it is not legally enforceable. Although the Park Service has legal authority to preserve dark sky values within park boundaries, that authority is practically useless, unless dark sky lighting enforcement authority is recognized and implemented on surrounding federal BLM lands. Although the BLM arguably might have dark sky regulatory authority under the Federal Land Management and Policy Act of 1976, the Alton Coal Mine application demonstrates that whatever authority the BLM may have, will not be applied.
In this context, a dark sky preserve means a special service district with the right to enforce lighting restrictions around and outside of a designated dark sky site, e.g. a Utah or Nevada state or federal park.
There are many United States and international dark sky preserve zones, both private and public. Some of the public venues have lighting regulatory power. See list at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark-sky_preserve#cite_note-1
Many of the areas in the United States are associated with observatories. Some, like Michigan's State Lake Huron Recreation Area and Pennsylvania's Cherry Hills State Park, are associated with park lands. Internationally, Canada has designated its Jasper Canadian National Park as a dark sky preserve with lighting regulatory authority.
But in the United States, public regulated dark sky preserves are principally associated with observatories. For example, in the United States, the MacDonald Observatory, Palomar Observatory, and Kitt Peak have legal authority to regulate lighting varying from 40 to 90 kilometers around each site. Another precedent for electro-magnetic radiation pollution control is the United States National Radio Quiet Zone, that was designated for defense purposes around the Green Banks Radio Observatory across state boundaries of Virgina and West Virgina.
An alternative is for SLAS as an organization to take no action and to continue to rely on the efforts of preexisting dark sky advocacy groups like the IDA. Considering that the Alton Mine dark sky expert is an Arizona-based former president of the IDA, maybe SLAS should reconsider the group's default no action practice, and SLAS should reconsider if it should start taking care of Utah's own as an organization.
Clear Skies - Canopus56
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
Getting involved in these types of activities is expressing prohibited by the club's constitution in Article X. As individuals we can all express our right to make our opinions known. I'm afraid this is not a club matter, it's an matter for each of us as individuals. Bob -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Steve Fisher Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 3:20 PM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Alton Mine Hearing is tomorrow, Wed. 12-7 - SLAS formal action? My answer as a club member, Q1= No. Q2= No. We are a club and the club should not be invlolved. Individual members are as you say able to participate in the IDA or any other group that they wish. Steve
It is providing information, The IDA has walked on the thin line of political vs non-political activity for decades.
Getting involved in these types of activities is expressing prohibited by
the club's constitution in Article X. As individuals we can all express our right to make our opinions known. I'm afraid this is not a club matter, it's an matter for each of us as individuals.
Bob
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Steve Fisher Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 3:20 PM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Alton Mine Hearing is tomorrow, Wed. 12-7 - SLAS formal action?
My answer as a club member, Q1= No. Q2= No. We are a club and the club should not be invlolved. Individual members are as you say able to participate in the IDA or any other group that they wish. Steve
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
As a group SLAS has given information and voiced disapproval on Dark Sky issues. There was a some sort of light display being considered and the SLAS Board participated in a discussion at the state capital. It is not direct political activity, it is providing info.
Non-profits not involved in political activity in Utah. LOL!
My answer as a club member, Q1= No. Q2= No. We are a club and the club should not be invlolved. Individual members are as you say able to participate in the IDA or any other group that they wish. Steve
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 14:08:45 -0800 From: canopus56@yahoo.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Alton Mine Hearing is tomorrow, Wed. 12-7 - SLAS formal action?
The Alton Mine hearing for Salt Lake City is tomorrow:
Salt Lake City, UT December 7th, 2011 Salt Lake City Library, 210 E 400 S 6:00pm-8:00pm
I have a class in Sandy starting at 7pm, and I will not be there.
The comment period ends in January, but the BLM website states that ``ends on January 6, 2012'' and comment may be submitted by email to UT_Kanab_Altoncoal at blm dot gov . I believe that comments will be accepted even if submitted reasonably after the closing date.
Since political participation in Utah is best done in groups and not as individuals (in order to avoid the Utah well-known type of employment retaliatory conduct mentioned by others in an early post), perhaps this is something that the SLAS transition board should consider. That the Alton mine comment period expires on Jan. 6 should be a practical barrier.
Q1 for discussion: Should the SLAS Board consider filing an organizational comment on the Alton Mine DEIS?
I am not suggesting any action related to the Dec. 7 hearing. My suggestion goes to a written organizational comment on the Alton Mine DEIS.
While SLAS is an apolitical association, should SLAS as an organization consider other dark sky activities? SLAS is apolitical in that the diversity of its conservative and liberal members results in a social consensus of avoiding political matters, and SLAS is organized as a 501(c)(3) corporation. While I am not a legal expert on 501(c)(3) matters, generally, I understand that although 501(c)(3) cannot make contributions or advocate for the election of any public official, a 501(c)(3) organization can influence and lobby regarding legislation, as long as a substantial portion of its income is not dedicated to lobbying.
Q2 for discussion: Should SLAS as an organization pursue federal legislation establishing a framework to establish dark sky preserves on federal lands Utah and or Nevada? Should SLAS as an organization pursue federal legislation to establish a specific dark sky preserve(s) in Utah and or Nevada?
In 2009, the International Dark Sky Association recognized Utah's Natural Bridges Monument as an International Dark Sky Reserve.
http://data.nextrionet.com/site/idsa/PR_Natural_Bridges_2007.pdf
That recognition and designation is private, and it is not legally enforceable. Although the Park Service has legal authority to preserve dark sky values within park boundaries, that authority is practically useless, unless dark sky lighting enforcement authority is recognized and implemented on surrounding federal BLM lands. Although the BLM arguably might have dark sky regulatory authority under the Federal Land Management and Policy Act of 1976, the Alton Coal Mine application demonstrates that whatever authority the BLM may have, will not be applied.
In this context, a dark sky preserve means a special service district with the right to enforce lighting restrictions around and outside of a designated dark sky site, e.g. a Utah or Nevada state or federal park.
There are many United States and international dark sky preserve zones, both private and public. Some of the public venues have lighting regulatory power. See list at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark-sky_preserve#cite_note-1
Many of the areas in the United States are associated with observatories. Some, like Michigan's State Lake Huron Recreation Area and Pennsylvania's Cherry Hills State Park, are associated with park lands. Internationally, Canada has designated its Jasper Canadian National Park as a dark sky preserve with lighting regulatory authority.
But in the United States, public regulated dark sky preserves are principally associated with observatories. For example, in the United States, the MacDonald Observatory, Palomar Observatory, and Kitt Peak have legal authority to regulate lighting varying from 40 to 90 kilometers around each site. Another precedent for electro-magnetic radiation pollution control is the United States National Radio Quiet Zone, that was designated for defense purposes around the Green Banks Radio Observatory across state boundaries of Virgina and West Virgina.
An alternative is for SLAS as an organization to take no action and to continue to rely on the efforts of preexisting dark sky advocacy groups like the IDA. Considering that the Alton Mine dark sky expert is an Arizona-based former president of the IDA, maybe SLAS should reconsider the group's default no action practice, and SLAS should reconsider if it should start taking care of Utah's own as an organization.
Clear Skies - Canopus56
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
On 12/6/11, Canopus56 <canopus56@yahoo.com> wrote:
The Alton Mine hearing for Salt Lake City is tomorrow:
Salt Lake City, UT December 7th, 2011 Salt Lake City Library, 210 E 400 S 6:00pm-8:00pm
I have a class in Sandy starting at 7pm, and I will not be there.
I work for a living, sweating and exerting physical effort, and also will not be there. I have bills to pay (groceries among them) that take precedence over high-and-mighty issues of import decided by minds immeasurably superior to my own. That said, the cause is good. But if SLAS takes a stand as an organization, I will seriously considering dropping my membership. I go to star parties and club events as a purely social activity; entertainment...relaxation, enjoyment. BSing with like-minded individuals. When I'm not working or sleeping after a 20-hour day. NOT for political activism. Life in America in 2011 doesn't allow a lot of free time for working people. If your life does, God bless you. You are no longer in the majority. That said, while I may withhold my dues, I would still participate in club activities if allowed. Hi there, Brent. I'm beginning to understand. Would SLAS taking a stand threatening their non-profit status, or any other initiatives close to club leadership? I'm no legal professional. Kurt, you need to kick-in some more info at this point for those of us who aren't in the legal loop, thanks. This sucks actually. I would prefer that individual members make their voices heard, and SLAS, as well as the Ogden and Utah-Valley clubs, remain silent or neutral. A club is a club. Not a PAC. Keep it low-key, please, board members of utah astronomy clubs. My 3 cents.
participants (5)
-
Canopus56 -
Chuck Hards -
erikhansen＠thebluezone.net -
Robert Taylor -
Steve Fisher