Winchester Park ADA issues
Tell us exactly where they are, Erik. Sun party locations can be moved if the BOD decides to do it, and it's done before the next schedule is printed. In the meantime, if you ever tell me in advance that you're going to Winchester, and I can make it, I will set up on the asphalt again. I will help you set up and tear-down your own solar setup if you want to bring it, as well. My bino parallelogram is especially well suited to chair users. I have 15X and 20X 70mm units with Baader filters. I set up the PST on a small GEM and typically have the tripod legs adjusted for chair height. On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 7:44 AM, Erik Hansen <erikhansen@thebluezone.net>wrote:
Deloy has different situation, small wedges do not comply with ADA standards. The standard is one foot for every one inch of curb. it is rare when anyone sets up on the asphalt. There are many spots on the Parkway that are, I go by them everyday.
Chuck, I have suggested many times to move the location, nothing but strong opposition. When there is a serious discussion about moving I will be glad to suggest locations. My astro equipment is not mobile, setting up and taking down is only half of the equation, it is pretty simple really the site needs at least one wheelchair ramp. If the sidewalk at Winchester had a ramp it would be accessible. I remember Lowell's and Rodger's solution to having ALCON planning meetings held at an accessible location, it was to kick me off the committee.
Erik Tell us exactly where they are, Erik. Sun party locations can be moved if
the BOD decides to do it, and it's done before the next schedule is printed.
In the meantime, if you ever tell me in advance that you're going to Winchester, and I can make it, I will set up on the asphalt again. I will help you set up and tear-down your own solar setup if you want to bring it, as well.
My bino parallelogram is especially well suited to chair users. I have 15X and 20X 70mm units with Baader filters. I set up the PST on a small GEM and typically have the tripod legs adjusted for chair height.
On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 7:44 AM, Erik Hansen <erikhansen@thebluezone.net>wrote:
Deloy has different situation, small wedges do not comply with ADA standards. The standard is one foot for every one inch of curb. it is rare when anyone sets up on the asphalt. There are many spots on the Parkway that are, I go by them everyday.
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Well, I can only do what I can do personally. I won't consider running for club office until I retire, those positions are for people with time on their hands or very flexible schedules. Some who have tried in the past while working long-hour jobs or are otherwise over-committed, have had to resign. I'm in the same boat, at least for another 8 years or so. On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Erik Hansen <erikhansen@thebluezone.net>wrote:
Chuck, I have suggested many times to move the location, nothing but strong opposition. When there is a serious discussion about moving I will be glad to suggest locations. My astro equipment is not mobile, setting up and taking down is only half of the equation, it is pretty simple really the site needs at least one wheelchair ramp. If the sidewalk at Winchester had a ramp it would be accessible. I remember Lowell's and Rodger's solution to having ALCON planning meetings held at an accessible location, it was to kick me off the committee.
My commitment issues are more along the lines getting to meetings in rain or snow. Electric Chairs and wet weather are incompatible.
Well, I can only do what I can do personally. I won't consider
running for club office until I retire, those positions are for people with time on their hands or very flexible schedules. Some who have tried in the past while working long-hour jobs or are otherwise over-committed, have had to resign. I'm in the same boat, at least for another 8 years or so.
On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Erik Hansen <erikhansen@thebluezone.net>wrote:
Chuck, I have suggested many times to move the location, nothing but strong opposition. When there is a serious discussion about moving I will be glad to suggest locations. My astro equipment is not mobile, setting up and taking down is only half of the equation, it is pretty simple really the site needs at least one wheelchair ramp. If the sidewalk at Winchester had a ramp it would be accessible. I remember Lowell's and Rodger's solution to having ALCON planning meetings held at an accessible location, it was to kick me off the committee.
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As usual, Erik, your memory is self serving. Why don't you tell "the rest of the story"? 73 Sent from my iPad On Aug 24, 2013, at 9:06 AM, "Erik Hansen" <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I remember Lowell's and Rodger's solution to having ALCON planning meetings held at an accessible location, it was to kick me off the committee.
Erik
Tell me what is the rest of the story, you know nothing about any of the story.
As usual, Erik, your memory is self serving. Why don't you tell "the rest
of the story"? 73
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 24, 2013, at 9:06 AM, "Erik Hansen" <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I remember Lowell's and Rodger's solution to having ALCON planning meetings held at an accessible location, it was to kick me off the committee.
Erik
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What I left out is that I refused to host the meetings in my house. One because my house is too small, and two I decide who is welcome in my home.
Erik As usual, Erik, your memory is self serving. Why don't you tell "the rest
of the story"? 73
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 24, 2013, at 9:06 AM, "Erik Hansen" <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I remember Lowell's and Rodger's solution to having ALCON planning meetings held at an accessible location, it was to kick me off the committee.
Erik
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I believe there is an ADA compliant ramp at Winchester. It's next to the restrooms. A chair user could access the sidewalk there, then proceed along the east walkway for the length of the parking lot, to the grassy area where telescopes are set-up. It's about a 150 to 200 foot traverse, but it's doable.
It's not your call wether or not it is doable. The hill is too steep, I am speaking from experience Chuck. I tried it once it did not go well and augured a $600 actuator into the ground, had to have someone move their scope, got stuck, and almost got my dog trapped between my chair and a park bench. I am not going to risk that damage again, it is not disabled access Chuck! You are an expert on my chair are you?
Why don't you set up 5 ft from the path? with an adjustable tripod it is "doable". I can tell you all the access ramps there I am very familiar. Again, what is so sacred about the site? Erik I believe there is an ADA compliant ramp at Winchester. It's next to the
restrooms. A chair user could access the sidewalk there, then proceed along the east walkway for the length of the parking lot, to the grassy area where telescopes are set-up. It's about a 150 to 200 foot traverse, but it's doable. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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Jeez, Erik, I was just trying to help. I won't make that mistake again. I was unaware that you knew about the ramp and tried that route unsuccessfully, I never claimed to be a power chair expert. I can't recall that I've been there when you have. Maybe, but I don't remember. Actually I've only been to Winchester four or five times in my life. I just go there because that's where the club sun parties are. I had no input in it's choice. I'm done with this discussion. Others have hit the nail on the head. You don't want to discuss it rationally, you're angry and just want to be bellicose. Good day, sir. On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Erik Hansen <erikhansen@thebluezone.net>wrote:
It's not your call wether or not it is doable. The hill is too steep, I am speaking from experience Chuck. I tried it once it did not go well and augured a $600 actuator into the ground, had to have someone move their scope, got stuck, and almost got my dog trapped between my chair and a park bench. I am not going to risk that damage again, it is not disabled access Chuck! You are an expert on my chair are you?
Why don't you set up 5 ft from the path? with an adjustable tripod it is "doable". I can tell you all the access ramps there I am very familiar. Again, what is so sacred about the site?
I have researched and explored every access point of the Jordan River Trail, I can think of perhaps a dozen places the Sun Parties can be held. I can even tell you sprinkler hours on everything S of 90th So. On the trail.
I have responded to posts that are just plan uninformed, you'll find everyone with a disability gets angry when it is questioned in anyway and they are told what is accessible and what is not. You in particular just said you really are not familiar with the area, yet you are giving "rational" responses. The only conclusion I can have is you seem to arguing for the sake of it: IE being bellicose. Jeez, Erik, I was just trying to help. I won't make that mistake again.
I was unaware that you knew about the ramp and tried that route unsuccessfully, I never claimed to be a power chair expert. I can't recall that I've been there when you have. Maybe, but I don't remember. Actually I've only been to Winchester four or five times in my life. I just go there because that's where the club sun parties are. I had no input in it's choice.
I'm done with this discussion. Others have hit the nail on the head. You don't want to discuss it rationally, you're angry and just want to be bellicose. Good day, sir.
On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Erik Hansen <erikhansen@thebluezone.net>wrote:
It's not your call wether or not it is doable. The hill is too steep, I am speaking from experience Chuck. I tried it once it did not go well and augured a $600 actuator into the ground, had to have someone move their scope, got stuck, and almost got my dog trapped between my chair and a park bench. I am not going to risk that damage again, it is not disabled access Chuck! You are an expert on my chair are you?
Why don't you set up 5 ft from the path? with an adjustable tripod it is "doable". I can tell you all the access ramps there I am very familiar. Again, what is so sacred about the site?
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You forget I was on the planning committee. Rodger has already spelled it out in a previous post, but he tried to be polite, which just does not work with you. Really, nothing works with you because you are at the least bellicose (thank you, Chuck). You spread diatribes and poor me's, but as Brent says, you offer no solutions. The reason you were asked to leave the planning committee came at the request of ALCON itself. They found you too difficult to work with, just as the people on this site who have tried to reach out to you. I learned my lesson as I expect my recent two replies to your posts are the first in many months. To the rest of the members of this site, you would be better served to also ignore him, as he feeds off being bellicose. Just saying. Sent from my iPad On Aug 25, 2013, at 11:46 AM, "Erik Hansen" <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
What I left out is that I refused to host the meetings in my house. One because my house is too small, and two I decide who is welcome in my home.
Erik
As usual, Erik, your memory is self serving. Why don't you tell "the rest
of the story"? 73
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 24, 2013, at 9:06 AM, "Erik Hansen" <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I remember Lowell's and Rodger's solution to having ALCON planning meetings held at an accessible location, it was to kick me off the committee.
Erik
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We list admins have received some complaints off-list that this thread has become a little too heated and personal. I realize there's some backstory here, some strong feelings and some frustrations. I would like to call on all parties to take a deep breath, consider future communications with increased respect and civility, and take this particular discussion off-list, if there are still issues that you need or want to work out with each other. Otherwise we will have to bring out the moderator stick and rap some knuckles with it! :) I personally value diversity and freedom to RESPECTFULLY agree to disagree on some points that pop up on this list from time to time, so let's not go backward (to moderation) if we can help it. Please consider this in future posts and replies going forward. Thanks everyone. At the end of the day, I believe most of us want the same things -- peace, prosperity for all, pollution-free dark skies, and the time and energy to enjoy them. How we get there is a matter of dispute, but if cooler heads prevail, we can and should make progress toward such an end. Best to you all, /Rich
I will continue to defend myself. No one has offered anything but personal attacks and people showing their ignorance about disabled access to a wheelchair user.
Erik Please point out my post that personally attacked someone here.We list admins have received some complaints off-list that this thread has
become a little too heated and personal. I realize there's some backstory here, some strong feelings and some frustrations. I would like to call on all parties to take a deep breath, consider future communications with increased respect and civility, and take this particular discussion off-list, if there are still issues that you need or want to work out with each other. Otherwise we will have to bring out the moderator stick and rap some knuckles with it! :)
I personally value diversity and freedom to RESPECTFULLY agree to disagree on some points that pop up on this list from time to time, so let's not go backward (to moderation) if we can help it. Please consider this in future posts and replies going forward.
Thanks everyone. At the end of the day, I believe most of us want the same things -- peace, prosperity for all, pollution-free dark skies, and the time and energy to enjoy them. How we get there is a matter of dispute, but if cooler heads prevail, we can and should make progress toward such an end.
Best to you all, /Rich _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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I am taking your bait, Larry. Your accusations are not worthy of response and your personal attack typical. You are simply mistaken and expressing 2nd and 3rd hand accounts.
The point here is the Sun Party site is not adequately accessible and you are arguing this point with one of the clubs few wheelchair users. Access is not negotiable. It seems clear you are a board member who feels not all members should have access to announced SLAS events. Erik planning committee. Rodger has already spelled it
out in a previous post, but he tried to be polite, which just does not work with you. Really, nothing works with you because you are at the least bellicose (thank you, Chuck). You spread diatribes and poor me's, but as Brent says, you offer no solutions. The reason you were asked to leave the planning committee came at the request of ALCON itself. They found you too difficult to work with, just as the people on this site who have tried to reach out to you. I learned my lesson as I expect my recent two replies to your posts are the first in many months. To the rest of the members of this site, you would be better served to also ignore him, as he feeds off being bellicose. Just saying.
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 25, 2013, at 11:46 AM, "Erik Hansen" <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
What I left out is that I refused to host the meetings in my house. One because my house is too small, and two I decide who is welcome in my home.
Erik
As usual, Erik, your memory is self serving. Why don't you tell "the rest
of the story"? 73
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 24, 2013, at 9:06 AM, "Erik Hansen" <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I remember Lowell's and Rodger's solution to having ALCON planning meetings held at an accessible location, it was to kick me off the committee.
Erik
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Enough already. The admin has already issued a warning. This is a plea from another list member (me): Stop this discussion. If you feel you need to discuss it further; take it off this list. If you feel you need to discuss this with the SLAS board, take it to them. This is not a SLAS list. Mat -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces+mat.hutchings=siemens.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces+mat.hutchings=siemens.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Erik Hansen Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 1:23 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Winchester Park ADA issues
I am taking your bait, Larry. Your accusations are not worthy of response and your personal attack typical. You are simply mistaken and expressing 2nd and 3rd hand accounts.
The point here is the Sun Party site is not adequately accessible and you are arguing this point with one of the clubs few wheelchair users. Access is not negotiable. It seems clear you are a board member who feels not all members should have access to announced SLAS events. Erik planning committee. Rodger has already spelled it
out in a previous post, but he tried to be polite, which just does not work with you. Really, nothing works with you because you are at the least bellicose (thank you, Chuck). You spread diatribes and poor me's, but as Brent says, you offer no solutions. The reason you were asked to leave the planning committee came at the request of ALCON itself. They found you too difficult to work with, just as the people on this site who have tried to reach out to you. I learned my lesson as I expect my recent two replies to your posts are the first in many months. To the rest of the members of this site, you would be better served to also ignore him, as he feeds off being bellicose. Just saying.
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 25, 2013, at 11:46 AM, "Erik Hansen" <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
What I left out is that I refused to host the meetings in my house. One because my house is too small, and two I decide who is welcome in my home.
Erik
As usual, Erik, your memory is self serving. Why don't you tell "the rest
of the story"? 73
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 24, 2013, at 9:06 AM, "Erik Hansen" <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I remember Lowell's and Rodger's solution to having ALCON planning meetings held at an accessible location, it was to kick me off the committee.
Erik
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participants (5)
-
Chuck Hards -
Erik Hansen -
Hutchings, Mat -
Larry Holmes -
Richard Tenney