Just after steve resigned from the list I emailed him about his leaving. With his permission I post the following reply. Patrick First let me thank you for your e-mail, I have received a couple from members of the Utah Astronomy group. I don't know if I will have time to respond to each so I'm hopping that you may pass along some or all of what I write to you. Feel free to post this note in total. I realize most assuredly that there is no connection between SLAS and Utah Astronomy, other than a few members perhaps and many people sharing the same interest. In writing my post before my resignation I should not even have mentioned my dissatisfaction with SLAS. While I am so grateful that we live in a country where people can have very strong opinions and have the opportunity to express them I have personally been surprised to find that the groups I have checked out or joined here in the Salt Lake Valley seem not only to be very opinionated but very closed minded. I expected the opposite. If you or any other member of Utah Astronomy care to make postings that others might find rude or offensive that is your right. I don't think I was being to sensitive but I realized very quickly that I did not want to be part of your group. I would suspect that I am not the first to join and then resign in fairly short order. I probably should not have even written what I did but I to am very opinionated. Thank you for your time and e-mail and assure those who have apologized that it is no one person or no one incident, you just can't please every one every time. Steve Fisher
Patrick, everyone, I am still confused about this whole situation. I have been a member of SLAS for two years now and a member of this list for a month. During my time in SLAS, I have noticed that some people have very strong opinions, but my philosophy on such matters is to say "So What?". I mean, if someone REALLY gets on my nerves, I just avoid him or her. (No one who has participated in this list over the past month falls into that category). There is no reason, in my opinion, to let one annoying person spoil my enjoyment of this hobby. To me, the benefits of belonging to SLAS and this list far outweigh any problems. As far as this list is concerned, nothing that I have read over the past month was the least bit offensive. Sure there was the occasional quip about "Astronomy" magazine and about how idiotic most politicians in this state are, but that never bothers me. (Of course, I agree whole heartedly that most politicians are idiotic). I also think that our discussions about how closed minded the general public is should have indicated that we are more OPEN minded than your average Joe (no offense Joe Baumann <grin>). I myself tend to be highly opinionated about many things, though much less about equipment and such as time goes on. If you like refractors or SCT's, I don't care. Each scope has it's strengths and weaknesses (I'm a newtonian man myself). Also I like to use both GOTO and starhopping to find things, it just depends upon what mood I'm in. Though I find it interesting that the vast majority of the objects in those enormous databases require a lot of work even to capture on a CCD, being several magnitudes fainter than one could possibly hope to see visually (unless you have a 30 inch scope). I just don't understand how we have offended Steve. No one has attacked religion or anything like that (which is good, such attacks, besides being offensive to most people, including myself, have no place in a scientific discussion). No one has said that they favor one political party over another, nor have any racial remarks been made (maby he was mad that we are too closed minded to espouse the views of the KKK?). I guess that I will never understand human nature. Greg --- Patrick Wiggins <paw@trilobyte.net> wrote:
Just after steve resigned from the list I emailed him about his leaving. With his permission I post the following reply.
Patrick
First let me thank you for your e-mail, I have received a couple from members of the Utah Astronomy group.
I don't know if I will have time to respond to each so I'm hopping that you may pass along some or all of what I write to you. Feel free to post this note in total.
I realize most assuredly that there is no connection between SLAS and Utah Astronomy, other than a few members perhaps and many people sharing the same interest. In writing my post before my resignation I should not even have mentioned my dissatisfaction with SLAS.
While I am so grateful that we live in a country where people can have very strong opinions and have the opportunity to express them I have personally been surprised to find that the groups I have checked out or joined here in the Salt Lake Valley seem not only to be very opinionated but very closed minded. I expected the opposite.
If you or any other member of Utah Astronomy care to make postings that others might find rude or offensive that is your right. I don't think I was being to sensitive but I realized very quickly that I did not want to be part of your group. I would suspect that I am not the first to join and then resign in fairly short order. I probably should not have even written what I did but I to am very opinionated.
Thank you for your time and e-mail and assure those who have apologized that it is no one person or no one incident, you just can't please every one every time.
Steve Fisher
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I just have to add my 2 cents. :) From the number of email lists and message boards I've been a member of in the last two or three years, I've noticed a trend... once in a while someone will come on and be offended or get angry, and will leave. It's unfortunate, but common. I've known the crazy bunch of SLASers for some 20 odd years now (my gosh has it really been that long?), and although I've been offended a time or two, for some reason I keep coming back. :) I just love the atmosphere, the people, and the good times. So I just think every now and then someone will come, just not like it, and leave. Ah well, it happens. I'm just glad things go on and most people are happy. :) Cyn -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-admin@mailman.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Greg Taylor Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 3:56 PM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Message from Steve Patrick, everyone, I am still confused about this whole situation. I have been a member of SLAS for two years now and a member of this list for a month. During my time in SLAS, I have noticed that some people have very strong opinions, but my philosophy on such matters is to say "So What?". I mean, if someone REALLY gets on my nerves, I just avoid him or her. (No one who has participated in this list over the past month falls into that category). There is no reason, in my opinion, to let one annoying person spoil my enjoyment of this hobby. To me, the benefits of belonging to SLAS and this list far outweigh any problems. As far as this list is concerned, nothing that I have read over the past month was the least bit offensive. Sure there was the occasional quip about "Astronomy" magazine and about how idiotic most politicians in this state are, but that never bothers me. (Of course, I agree whole heartedly that most politicians are idiotic). I also think that our discussions about how closed minded the general public is should have indicated that we are more OPEN minded than your average Joe (no offense Joe Baumann <grin>). I myself tend to be highly opinionated about many things, though much less about equipment and such as time goes on. If you like refractors or SCT's, I don't care. Each scope has it's strengths and weaknesses (I'm a newtonian man myself). Also I like to use both GOTO and starhopping to find things, it just depends upon what mood I'm in. Though I find it interesting that the vast majority of the objects in those enormous databases require a lot of work even to capture on a CCD, being several magnitudes fainter than one could possibly hope to see visually (unless you have a 30 inch scope). I just don't understand how we have offended Steve. No one has attacked religion or anything like that (which is good, such attacks, besides being offensive to most people, including myself, have no place in a scientific discussion). No one has said that they favor one political party over another, nor have any racial remarks been made (maby he was mad that we are too closed minded to espouse the views of the KKK?). I guess that I will never understand human nature. Greg
Cynthia, you make several good points. It's not the organization that sometimes offends people, but individuals. It is unfair to hold an organization-at-large responsible for the actions of a lone bone-head. And I promise, I'll make sure I use Right Guard before I attend my next meeting! ;) Chuck --- Cynthia Blue <cyn@cynthiablue.net> wrote:
I just have to add my 2 cents. :) I've known the crazy bunch of SLASers for some 20 odd years now (my gosh has it really been that long?), and although I've been offended a time or two, for some reason I keep coming back. :) I just love the atmosphere, the people, and the good times.
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I've been accumulating some good info on the Columbia disaster, and thought I'd share it. This is a test. Here is an attachment you can look at. It is purported to be an internal NASA memo written the day before the re-entry. Let's see if it makes it through the server. If so, I'll send a couple more items. Brent __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com
Thanks Brent for posting the pdf about the potential gear breach concerns. Very very interesting and frightening, especially the forwarded statement; "looks like they believe all has been addressed..." Dave On Monday, February 17, 2003, at 09:20 PM, Brent Watson wrote:
I've been accumulating some good info on the Columbia disaster, and thought I'd share it. This is a test. Here is an attachment you can look at. It is purported to be an internal NASA memo written the day before the re-entry. Let's see if it makes it through the server. If so, I'll send a couple more items.
Brent
Do you suppose that Gutenberg may have caught some flak for giving others a venue to express their ideas? Wasn't Galileo considered by some to be opinionated? I've been known to occasionally slam closed one of Gutenberg's inventions. And, now, if Steve is no longer communicating with us, we, too, can consider ourselves to be Excommunicated! (Pun intended.) Bob Grant ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Blue" <cyn@cynthiablue.net> To: <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 6:38 PM Subject: RE: [Utah-astronomy] Message from Steve
I just have to add my 2 cents. :) From the number of email lists and message boards I've been a member of in the last two or three years, I've noticed a trend... once in a while someone will come on and be offended or get angry, and will leave. It's unfortunate, but common.
I've known the crazy bunch of SLASers for some 20 odd years now (my gosh has it really been that long?), and although I've been offended a time or two, for some reason I keep coming back. :) I just love the atmosphere, the people, and the good times. So I just think every now and then someone will come, just not like it, and leave.
Ah well, it happens. I'm just glad things go on and most people are happy. :) Cyn
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-admin@mailman.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Greg Taylor Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 3:56 PM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Message from Steve
Patrick, everyone,
I am still confused about this whole situation. I have been a member of SLAS for two years now and a member of this list for a month. During my time in SLAS, I have noticed that some people have very strong opinions, but my philosophy on such matters is to say "So What?". I mean, if someone REALLY gets on my nerves, I just avoid him or her. (No one who has participated in this list over the past month falls into that category). There is no reason, in my opinion, to let one annoying person spoil my enjoyment of this hobby. To me, the benefits of belonging to SLAS and this list far outweigh any problems.
As far as this list is concerned, nothing that I have read over the past month was the least bit offensive. Sure there was the occasional quip about "Astronomy" magazine and about how idiotic most politicians in this state are, but that never bothers me. (Of course, I agree whole heartedly that most politicians are idiotic).
I also think that our discussions about how closed minded the general public is should have indicated that we are more OPEN minded than your average Joe (no offense Joe Baumann <grin>). I myself tend to be highly opinionated about many things, though much less about equipment and such as time goes on. If you like refractors or SCT's, I don't care. Each scope has it's strengths and weaknesses (I'm a newtonian man myself). Also I like to use both GOTO and starhopping to find things, it just depends upon what mood I'm in. Though I find it interesting that the vast majority of the objects in those enormous databases require a lot of work even to capture on a CCD, being several magnitudes fainter than one could possibly hope to see visually (unless you have a 30 inch scope).
I just don't understand how we have offended Steve. No one has attacked religion or anything like that (which is good, such attacks, besides being offensive to most people, including myself, have no place in a scientific discussion). No one has said that they favor one political party over another, nor have any racial remarks been made (maby he was mad that we are too closed minded to espouse the views of the KKK?). I guess that I will never understand human nature.
Greg
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
I guess that it just makes me feel bad knowing that a seemingly innocent remark on my part has royally ticked someone off. Greg --- Marilyn Smith <bob-marilyn@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Do you suppose that Gutenberg may have caught some flak for giving others a venue to express their ideas? Wasn't Galileo considered by some to be opinionated? I've been known to occasionally slam closed one of Gutenberg's inventions. And, now, if Steve is no longer communicating with us, we, too, can consider ourselves to be Excommunicated! (Pun intended.)
Bob Grant
----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Blue" <cyn@cynthiablue.net> To: <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 6:38 PM Subject: RE: [Utah-astronomy] Message from Steve
I just have to add my 2 cents. :) From the number of email lists and message boards I've been a member of in the last two or three years, I've noticed a trend... once in a while someone will come on and be offended or get angry, and will leave. It's unfortunate, but common.
I've known the crazy bunch of SLASers for some 20 odd years now (my gosh has it really been that long?), and although I've been offended a time or two, for some reason I keep coming back. :) I just love the atmosphere, the people, and the good times. So I just think every now and then someone will come, just not like it, and leave.
Ah well, it happens. I'm just glad things go on and most people are happy. :) Cyn
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-admin@mailman.xmission.com
[mailto:utah-astronomy-admin@mailman.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Greg
Taylor Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 3:56 PM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Message from Steve
Patrick, everyone,
I am still confused about this whole situation. I have been a member of SLAS for two years now and a member of this list for a month. During my time in SLAS, I have noticed that some people have very strong opinions, but my philosophy on such matters is to say "So What?". I mean, if someone REALLY gets on my nerves, I just avoid him or her. (No one who has participated in this list over the past month falls into that category). There is no reason, in my opinion, to let one annoying person spoil my enjoyment of this hobby. To me, the benefits of belonging to SLAS and this list far outweigh any problems.
As far as this list is concerned, nothing that I have read over the past month was the least bit offensive. Sure there was the occasional quip about "Astronomy" magazine and about how idiotic most politicians in this state are, but that never bothers me. (Of course, I agree whole heartedly that most politicians are idiotic).
I also think that our discussions about how closed minded the general public is should have indicated that we are more OPEN minded than your average Joe (no offense Joe Baumann <grin>). I myself tend to be highly opinionated about many things, though much less about equipment and such as time goes on. If you like refractors or SCT's, I don't care. Each scope has it's strengths and weaknesses (I'm a newtonian man myself). Also I like to use both GOTO and starhopping to find things, it just depends upon what mood I'm in. Though I find it interesting that the vast majority of the objects in those enormous databases require a lot of work even to capture on a CCD, being several magnitudes fainter than one could possibly hope to see visually (unless you have a 30 inch scope).
I just don't understand how we have offended Steve. No one has attacked religion or anything like that (which is good, such attacks, besides being offensive to most people, including myself, have no place in a scientific discussion). No one has said that they favor one political party over another, nor have any racial remarks been made (maby he was mad that we are too closed minded to espouse the views of the KKK?). I guess that I will never understand human nature.
Greg
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http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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participants (7)
-
Brent Watson -
Chuck Hards -
Cynthia Blue -
David L Bennett -
Greg Taylor -
Marilyn Smith -
Patrick Wiggins