Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium
I guess I will have to apologize for posting this. I did not realize that there had already been a thread discussing my trip to the planetarium yesterday. I will look more deeply into the archives before posting again. Nate, I have enjoyed your company at the public and private gatherings we have attended together in the last two months since you joined the club. I believe you to be a fine young man and an asset to both SLAS and here on Utah Astronomy. I'm not sure how old Kim is but he is closer to my generation than yours. I'm sure of that. We come from a generation where "The customer is always right". It has been twisted now days to as you say "The customer is always the customer". I'm not saying you are wrong or that Kim and I are right but I can tell you having grown up in the Food Service Industry in the 60's and knowing people from retail who made less than me and took much more abuse than I did that serving people had an entirely different meaning then than it does now. I get sick to my stomach when I go get my car or truck serviced and they announce over the loud speaker that there is a "guest" waiting. I am NOT a guest at the dealership. I AM a customer and I want to be served and get a fair value for my money. No more no less. When I got home from my first club meeting I felt as though I had spit up in my mouth. Thanks to Bill Cowles, Siegfried and Patrick and a few others for helping me feel more welcome at events that followed. I can't help but think that I have been responsible for turning a few people off myself when I was in the middle of alignment or learning a new routine on my equipment and someone attending their first event asked me a question and my response may have been curt or abrupt. I'd love to get them back and apologize but that's not likely to happen. I can only try to do better in the future and I will. I would have guessed that this is a wonderful venue to discuss star party etiquette and welcoming people to astronomy, SLAS or other clubs and Utah Astronomy as well as discussing astronomy the science. Am I wrong? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "daniel turner" <outwest112@yahoo.com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, October 1, 2010 5:53:24 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium Yes. Kim. In addition to attending most public SLAS events in the last 7 years, I also go to observing sites that are not SLAS events over the last 16 years. I meet many people who quit SLAS or who never bothered to join after attending a few events. I always ask them why. Many of them tell me EXACTLY why they do not belong. Often at great length. My point is that we already have had a long running thread on the list about the evils of the Planetarium. It went nowhere and solved nothing. We don't need to do it again. DT --- On Fri, 10/1/10, Kim <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 4:18 PM Daniel, I've been involved with SLAS for over 22 years. Until I moved to Sanpete I probably attended SLAS public star parties as regularly as anyone, sometimes going an entire season without missing a single event. I've never heard a complaint from our guests, either during or after a star party. I have to question if you know of even a few, if any, who have had bad experiences at SLAS events. Please, be honest: Do you really know of "dozens" of such people?
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of daniel turner Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:42 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium
I know of dozens of people who have had very unplesant experiences from SLAS members or at SLAS events. Recounting them all would be really boring.
Every one has an occasional bad day. It's best to be big enough to overlook it.
And we've done it all before many times so it's down right tiresome.
This is very much a "glass house" moment.
DT
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And here I thought Nate was just another cantankerous old curmudgeon. Sorry, Nate. ;-) Steve, I'm proud of my 56 years - I've earned every one of them, at least those I can remember. Steve, my experiences, particularly my expectations, are indeed more like yours. I've worked in sales and service industries for over 30 years. I've taken my share of abuse from customers and clients, but I've always bit my tongue. Oops, that's not entirely true. Once I told a client that he was an ***hole. He admitted that I was right. We still enjoy a friendly relationship. Remember, everyone, that Steve's comments were specific to customer service, not to disgruntled former SLAS members. As a public service organization, I believe SLAS has a "stellar" reputation. I, too, have heard complaints from SLAS members or former members about SLAS and its eccentricities, but that wasn't what Steve's thread was about. I never said nor implied that there might not be attendees at public events who have had bad experiences. I've just never heard complaints about how the public has been treated at star parties. I'd like to hear specifics from anyone who has so that if I have offended anyone I can change my approach. Finally (yes, FINALLY): Steve, there is no forum for SLAS members to air their comments and/or dirty laundry; the Utah Astronomy list has become that forum by default, not by design. Patrick has pointed that out on occasion, and as moderator, Patrick may decide to change things, but I hope he won't. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of sfisher01@comcast.net Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 6:58 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium I guess I will have to apologize for posting this. I did not realize that there had already been a thread discussing my trip to the planetarium yesterday. I will look more deeply into the archives before posting again. Nate, I have enjoyed your company at the public and private gatherings we have attended together in the last two months since you joined the club. I believe you to be a fine young man and an asset to both SLAS and here on Utah Astronomy. I'm not sure how old Kim is but he is closer to my generation than yours. I'm sure of that. We come from a generation where "The customer is always right". It has been twisted now days to as you say "The customer is always the customer". I'm not saying you are wrong or that Kim and I are right but I can tell you having grown up in the Food Service Industry in the 60's and knowing people from retail who made less than me and took much more abuse than I did that serving people had an entirely different meaning then than it does now. I get sick to my stomach when I go get my car or truck serviced and they announce over the loud speaker that there is a "guest" waiting. I am NOT a guest at the dealership. I AM a customer and I want to be served and get a fair value for my money. No more no less. When I got home from my first club meeting I felt as though I had spit up in my mouth. Thanks to Bill Cowles, Siegfried and Patrick and a few others for helping me feel more welcome at events that followed. I can't help but think that I have been responsible for turning a few people off myself when I was in the middle of alignment or learning a new routine on my equipment and someone attending their first event asked me a question and my response may have been curt or abrupt. I'd love to get them back and apologize but that's not likely to happen. I can only try to do better in the future and I will. I would have guessed that this is a wonderful venue to discuss star party etiquette and welcoming people to astronomy, SLAS or other clubs and Utah Astronomy as well as discussing astronomy the science. Am I wrong? Steve
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sfisher01＠comcast.net