Ok, maybe I'm just grousing but I thought I would post my experience from yesterday. I had reason to be downtown at the Gateway Center. I thought after my business was done around noon that I would walk over to the Clark Planetarium. I walked in the front door to find them busy putting up displays etc. and very busy. I thought nothing of it and of course went over to the dusty telescope display. I was looking at the Orion XTG in a 10". No not my kind of scope but I have to admit that a 10" goto for $1,095.00 is unbelievable in my opinion. While I was looking and kind of laughing about all the dust on the displays a young man walked up to me in a Clark shirt and asked if I was "with the conference group". I said no, I was "just looking at telescopes" and "thinking about going to a show". He told me in no uncertain terms that the planetarium was "closed to the public" and that I would "have to leave". I simply said "OK" and proceeded to exit. I looked back over my shoulder as I went out the main entrance door at the hours posted on the door and found that I was within their normal hours of operation. Still walking around and quite a walk to the west I found a small A-frame sign stating that the planetarium was closed until 5:30 PM. The sign was in an alcove far from the front entrance. Actually it was next to the alcove where the downtown people leave their whiskey bottles. I couldn't help but turn and take a cell phone picture of the sign with the empty half gallon whiskey bottle in the same frame. Someone who has dealings with them may want to suggest to the planetarium that there may be some things they can do to improve their public perception. Maybe a little training for the security forces and maybe a little trip around the building to police the empty bottles before the public and the private party show up. Me, I have just decided that it will be a cold day in hell before I make a planned trip back. I may stop again but only if I am in the area. Now if I can just find a place to post this story with the picture I took. I'm just sayin'. Steve
Steve, I don't think you're grousing at all. There's no excuse for the kind of behavior that you encountered. I agree with you: service shouldnt be a department, counter or single person. Sadly, these days the customer is seldom right. Why don't you post the pic to the gallery? (I'd love to see it.) Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of sfisher01@comcast.net Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 2:17 PM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium Ok, maybe I'm just grousing but I thought I would post my experience from yesterday. I had reason to be downtown at the Gateway Center. I thought after my business was done around noon that I would walk over to the Clark Planetarium. I walked in the front door to find them busy putting up displays etc. and very busy. I thought nothing of it and of course went over to the dusty telescope display. I was looking at the Orion XTG in a 10". No not my kind of scope but I have to admit that a 10" goto for $1,095.00 is unbelievable in my opinion. While I was looking and kind of laughing about all the dust on the displays a young man walked up to me in a Clark shirt and asked if I was "with the conference group". I said no, I was "just looking at telescopes" and "thinking about going to a show". He told me in no uncertain terms that the planetarium was "closed to the public" and that I would "have to leave". I simply said "OK" and proceeded to exit. I looked back over my shoulder as I went out the main entrance door at the hours posted on the door and found that I was within their normal hours of operation. Still walking around and quite a walk to the west I found a small A-frame sign stating that the planetarium was closed until 5:30 PM. The sign was in an alcove far from the front entrance. Actually it was next to the alcove where the downtown people leave their whiskey bottles. I couldn't help but turn and take a cell phone picture of the sign with the empty half gallon whiskey bottle in the same frame. Someone who has dealings with them may want to suggest to the planetarium that there may be some things they can do to improve their public perception. Maybe a little training for the security forces and maybe a little trip around the building to police the empty bottles before the public and the private party show up. Me, I have just decided that it will be a cold day in hell before I make a planned trip back. I may stop again but only if I am in the area. Now if I can just find a place to post this story with the picture I took. I'm just sayin'. Steve _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
I know of dozens of people who have had very unplesant experiences from SLAS members or at SLAS events. Recounting them all would be really boring. Every one has an occasional bad day. It's best to be big enough to overlook it. And we've done it all before many times so it's down right tiresome. This is very much a "glass house" moment. DT
Daniel, I've been involved with SLAS for over 22 years. Until I moved to Sanpete I probably attended SLAS public star parties as regularly as anyone, sometimes going an entire season without missing a single event. I've never heard a complaint from our guests, either during or after a star party. I have to question if you know of even a few, if any, who have had bad experiences at SLAS events. Please, be honest: Do you really know of "dozens" of such people? Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of daniel turner Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:42 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium I know of dozens of people who have had very unplesant experiences from SLAS members or at SLAS events. Recounting them all would be really boring. Every one has an occasional bad day. It's best to be big enough to overlook it. And we've done it all before many times so it's down right tiresome. This is very much a "glass house" moment. DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Just because the complaint wasn't heard by you doesn't mean the complaint is non-existent or negated. I know one person that has had a bad experience... As far as the customer always being right. That is an illogical thing to say. The customer is not always right, however, the customer is always the customer and they should be treated as such. ________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 5:18:39 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium Daniel, I've been involved with SLAS for over 22 years. Until I moved to Sanpete I probably attended SLAS public star parties as regularly as anyone, sometimes going an entire season without missing a single event. I've never heard a complaint from our guests, either during or after a star party. I have to question if you know of even a few, if any, who have had bad experiences at SLAS events. Please, be honest: Do you really know of "dozens" of such people? Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of daniel turner Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:42 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium I know of dozens of people who have had very unplesant experiences from SLAS members or at SLAS events. Recounting them all would be really boring. Every one has an occasional bad day. It's best to be big enough to overlook it. And we've done it all before many times so it's down right tiresome. This is very much a "glass house" moment. DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Law of averages: Q. Is it logical that one person has heard dozens of complaints, while another, who has probably attended as many or more public SLAS functions, has never heard one? A. NO. Nate, you say you've heard of one person who had a bad experience. Is that the same as dozens? Sorry if I offend, but I don't believe for one minute that anyone, not Daniel or any other SLAS member, has ever heard "dozens" of complaints. Exaggerations like this seriously offend me. Have you not you heard the dictum, "The customer is always right"? If you haven't you've not worked in retail. And, just so we can get back to astronomy, has anyone observed Comet Hartley naked-eye yet? Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Nate Jackson Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 5:41 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium Just because the complaint wasn't heard by you doesn't mean the complaint is non-existent or negated. I know one person that has had a bad experience... As far as the customer always being right. That is an illogical thing to say. The customer is not always right, however, the customer is always the customer and they should be treated as such. ________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 5:18:39 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium Daniel, I've been involved with SLAS for over 22 years. Until I moved to Sanpete I probably attended SLAS public star parties as regularly as anyone, sometimes going an entire season without missing a single event. I've never heard a complaint from our guests, either during or after a star party. I have to question if you know of even a few, if any, who have had bad experiences at SLAS events. Please, be honest: Do you really know of "dozens" of such people? Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of daniel turner Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:42 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium I know of dozens of people who have had very unplesant experiences from SLAS members or at SLAS events. Recounting them all would be really boring. Every one has an occasional bad day. It's best to be big enough to overlook it. And we've done it all before many times so it's down right tiresome. This is very much a "glass house" moment. DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
As a matter of fact I have worked in retail. And I consistently won awards stemming from customer letters and phone calls which I can gladly produce. The reason I was able to get them? The customer is not always right. I am able to recognize that and show the customer the fact in a way that they are able to see and understand. And then they can see where they might not have been correct without me just saying " no you are wrong". That would be vary narcissistic of me. I do it very humbly. I have also worked in my educated field which is psychology. I was also recognized for the way I am able to communicate with my customers (you would call them clients or patients) in the same manner. I do not believe the "law of averages" applies. Simply because no one is average. It greatly depends on the person listening. And how deeply a person listens. The amount of parties attended really doesn't apply either. Though the quality and people attending sure does. You have attended far more star parties than I. I have only been with the club 2 months. I know of one person. Law of averages? It seems as though you are saying that because you haven't heard them they do not exist. Like you are the be all, know all, and end all. (And that is offensive to me)As far as comet Hartley goes... no! And it is not from lack of trying. Hopefully tonight (with any luck). Though Tuesday I was able to see Uranus through my scope for the first time. Not a big deal to some but I was a little excited about a simple disc. ________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 5:52:25 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Serving the public Law of averages: Q. Is it logical that one person has heard dozens of complaints, while another, who has probably attended as many or more public SLAS functions, has never heard one? A. NO. Nate, you say you've heard of one person who had a bad experience. Is that the same as dozens? Sorry if I offend, but I don't believe for one minute that anyone, not Daniel or any other SLAS member, has ever heard "dozens" of complaints. Exaggerations like this seriously offend me. Have you not you heard the dictum, "The customer is always right"? If you haven't you've not worked in retail. And, just so we can get back to astronomy, has anyone observed Comet Hartley naked-eye yet? Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Nate Jackson Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 5:41 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium Just because the complaint wasn't heard by you doesn't mean the complaint is non-existent or negated. I know one person that has had a bad experience... As far as the customer always being right. That is an illogical thing to say. The customer is not always right, however, the customer is always the customer and they should be treated as such. ________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 5:18:39 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium Daniel, I've been involved with SLAS for over 22 years. Until I moved to Sanpete I probably attended SLAS public star parties as regularly as anyone, sometimes going an entire season without missing a single event. I've never heard a complaint from our guests, either during or after a star party. I have to question if you know of even a few, if any, who have had bad experiences at SLAS events. Please, be honest: Do you really know of "dozens" of such people? Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of daniel turner Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:42 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium I know of dozens of people who have had very unplesant experiences from SLAS members or at SLAS events. Recounting them all would be really boring. Every one has an occasional bad day. It's best to be big enough to overlook it. And we've done it all before many times so it's down right tiresome. This is very much a "glass house" moment. DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Steve, sorry you got such a bad deal and there is no excuse for that. However, my experience early this summer (June) was different. I purchased the XX14i through them and they took care of me from ordering to when it arrived. They gave me a discount for being an educator and another one on top of that. Communication was great. On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 6:11 PM, Nate Jackson <myfuneralcar1972@yahoo.com>wrote:
As a matter of fact I have worked in retail. And I consistently won awards stemming from customer letters and phone calls which I can gladly produce. The reason I was able to get them? The customer is not always right. I am able to recognize that and show the customer the fact in a way that they are able to see and understand. And then they can see where they might not have been correct without me just saying " no you are wrong". That would be vary narcissistic of me. I do it very humbly. I have also worked in my educated field which is psychology. I was also recognized for the way I am able to communicate with my customers (you would call them clients or patients) in the same manner. I do not believe the "law of averages" applies. Simply because no one is average. It greatly depends on the person listening. And how deeply a person listens. The amount of parties attended really doesn't apply either. Though the quality and people attending sure does. You have attended far more star parties than I. I have only been with the club 2 months. I know of one person. Law of averages? It seems as though you are saying that because you haven't heard them they do not exist. Like you are the be all, know all, and end all. (And that is offensive to me)As far as comet Hartley goes... no! And it is not from lack of trying. Hopefully tonight (with any luck). Though Tuesday I was able to see Uranus through my scope for the first time. Not a big deal to some but I was a little excited about a simple disc.
________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 5:52:25 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Serving the public
Law of averages: Q. Is it logical that one person has heard dozens of complaints, while another, who has probably attended as many or more public SLAS functions, has never heard one? A. NO. Nate, you say you've heard of one person who had a bad experience. Is that the same as dozens? Sorry if I offend, but I don't believe for one minute that anyone, not Daniel or any other SLAS member, has ever heard "dozens" of complaints. Exaggerations like this seriously offend me.
Have you not you heard the dictum, "The customer is always right"? If you haven't you've not worked in retail.
And, just so we can get back to astronomy, has anyone observed Comet Hartley naked-eye yet?
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Nate Jackson Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 5:41 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium
Just because the complaint wasn't heard by you doesn't mean the complaint is
non-existent or negated. I know one person that has had a bad experience... As far as the customer always being right. That is an illogical thing to say. The customer is not always right, however, the customer is always the customer and they should be treated as such.
________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 5:18:39 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium
Daniel, I've been involved with SLAS for over 22 years. Until I moved to Sanpete I probably attended SLAS public star parties as regularly as anyone, sometimes going an entire season without missing a single event. I've never heard a complaint from our guests, either during or after a star party. I have to question if you know of even a few, if any, who have had bad experiences at SLAS events. Please, be honest: Do you really know of "dozens" of such people?
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of daniel turner Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:42 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium
I know of dozens of people who have had very unplesant experiences from SLAS members or at SLAS events. Recounting them all would be really boring.
Every one has an occasional bad day. It's best to be big enough to overlook it.
And we've done it all before many times so it's down right tiresome.
This is very much a "glass house" moment.
DT
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
-- Jay Eads
I take exception with that! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim" <kimharch@cut.net> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, October 1, 2010 6:26:06 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Serving the public I agree to disagree. Kim _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Well, it seems you're not alone. I think I exceeded my day's quota for being provocative. At least you made me smile - again. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of sfisher01@comcast.net Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 6:28 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Serving the public I take exception with that! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim" <kimharch@cut.net> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, October 1, 2010 6:26:06 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Serving the public I agree to disagree. Kim _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
On another note, congrats Nate on viewing Uranus with your scope! On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Kim <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
Well, it seems you're not alone. I think I exceeded my day's quota for being provocative. At least you made me smile - again.
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of sfisher01@comcast.net Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 6:28 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Serving the public
I take exception with that!
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim" <kimharch@cut.net> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, October 1, 2010 6:26:06 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Serving the public
I agree to disagree.
Kim
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
-- Jay Eads
Yes. Kim. In addition to attending most public SLAS events in the last 7 years, I also go to observing sites that are not SLAS events over the last 16 years. I meet many people who quit SLAS or who never bothered to join after attending a few events. I always ask them why. Many of them tell me EXACTLY why they do not belong. Often at great length. My point is that we already have had a long running thread on the list about the evils of the Planetarium. It went nowhere and solved nothing. We don't need to do it again. DT --- On Fri, 10/1/10, Kim <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 4:18 PM Daniel, I've been involved with SLAS for over 22 years. Until I moved to Sanpete I probably attended SLAS public star parties as regularly as anyone, sometimes going an entire season without missing a single event. I've never heard a complaint from our guests, either during or after a star party. I have to question if you know of even a few, if any, who have had bad experiences at SLAS events. Please, be honest: Do you really know of "dozens" of such people?
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of daniel turner Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:42 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium
I know of dozens of people who have had very unplesant experiences from SLAS members or at SLAS events. Recounting them all would be really boring.
Every one has an occasional bad day. It's best to be big enough to overlook it.
And we've done it all before many times so it's down right tiresome.
This is very much a "glass house" moment.
DT
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
I agree Daniel. I was almost one of them. I must share. After my first star party (after joining slas) I came directly home (early) and told my wife that I wish I had not joined. And that I regretted it. I sat down and thought about it. And have gone to some more and have met some great people and made some good friends. Not everyone will see it objectively. Some will see one bad time as how it will always be. I mean 1 star party and it was horrible that meant that 100% of the time it was horrible. Though now I have gone to more I enjoy it. ________________________________ From: daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 5:53:24 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium Yes. Kim. In addition to attending most public SLAS events in the last 7 years, I also go to observing sites that are not SLAS events over the last 16 years. I meet many people who quit SLAS or who never bothered to join after attending a few events. I always ask them why. Many of them tell me EXACTLY why they do not belong. Often at great length. My point is that we already have had a long running thread on the list about the evils of the Planetarium. It went nowhere and solved nothing. We don't need to do it again. DT --- On Fri, 10/1/10, Kim <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 4:18 PM Daniel, I've been involved with SLAS for over 22 years. Until I moved to Sanpete I probably attended SLAS public star parties as regularly as anyone, sometimes going an entire season without missing a single event. I've never heard a complaint from our guests, either during or after a star party. I have to question if you know of even a few, if any, who have had bad experiences at SLAS events. Please, be honest: Do you really know of "dozens" of such people?
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of daniel turner Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:42 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium
I know of dozens of people who have had very unplesant experiences from SLAS members or at SLAS events. Recounting them all would be really boring.
Every one has an occasional bad day. It's best to be big enough to overlook it.
And we've done it all before many times so it's down right tiresome.
This is very much a "glass house" moment.
DT
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Daniel, Thought maybe this should be done off-list. Yes, the planetarium has been bashed enough. But don't you think you can also stop bashing SLAS and its members? I've both heard and read comments from you about SLAS that were very negative, and I think maybe it's time to stop that, as well. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of daniel turner Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 5:53 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium Yes. Kim. In addition to attending most public SLAS events in the last 7 years, I also go to observing sites that are not SLAS events over the last 16 years. I meet many people who quit SLAS or who never bothered to join after attending a few events. I always ask them why. Many of them tell me EXACTLY why they do not belong. Often at great length. My point is that we already have had a long running thread on the list about the evils of the Planetarium. It went nowhere and solved nothing. We don't need to do it again. DT --- On Fri, 10/1/10, Kim <kimharch@cut.net> wrote:
From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 4:18 PM Daniel, I've been involved with SLAS for over 22 years. Until I moved to Sanpete I probably attended SLAS public star parties as regularly as anyone, sometimes going an entire season without missing a single event. I've never heard a complaint from our guests, either during or after a star party. I have to question if you know of even a few, if any, who have had bad experiences at SLAS events. Please, be honest: Do you really know of "dozens" of such people?
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of daniel turner Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 4:42 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My trip to the planetarium
I know of dozens of people who have had very unplesant experiences from SLAS members or at SLAS events. Recounting them all would be really boring.
Every one has an occasional bad day. It's best to be big enough to overlook it.
And we've done it all before many times so it's down right tiresome.
This is very much a "glass house" moment.
DT
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
participants (5)
-
daniel turner -
Jay Eads -
Kim -
Nate Jackson -
sfisher01＠comcast.net