RE: [Utah-astronomy] SETI politics
I'm certainly glad that I am old enough to remember the moon landings. But, the possibility of interstellar travel is one of the areas where I wish I could have been born 500 or 1000 years into the future. If it turns out that we can't use exotic methods such as wormholes - it would be fascinating to see how we overcome some of the limitations posited by special relativity. For example, ground ops would have to send signals to the "craft" in UV if they want the craft to receive something in the radio spectrum. Or the opposite effect when the craft is returning. Or, since the stellarscape is completely different at relativistic speeds - how do you navigate or keep people from going utterly insane from the lack of visual cues? I.e. at relativistic velocities stars are "coned" forward and blue shifted. Stars to the aft are red shifted. So, you have stellarscapes where IR or possibly radio frequencies are moved into the visible range (forward) - or UV stars are in the visible looking to the rear. The real kicker though is that very close to C, the only thing you can see is a bright dot ahead of you from the 2.7K CBR! I find it very fascinating (your mileage may vary <g>) and I wish I could see it become reality. The best we can do right now, of course, is software simulations. But, the only planetarium software that I've seen that does a really good job with special relativistic effects is StarStrider (www.starstrider.com). I think they have 30 day trial downloads. Clear skies, Dale.
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces+dale.hooper=sdl.usu.edu@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy- bounces+dale.hooper=sdl.usu.edu@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:51 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: RE: [Utah-astronomy] SETI politics
That's an interesting article Patrick posted. A major impediment to interstellar travel that's often brought up in debates about UFOs is the vast distance between the stars. Assuming the speed of light is a limit that can't be exceeded and or even approached very closely, that requires interstellar travel to take years -- sometimes many years.
But what if some aliens live as long as bristlecone pines? Spending 100 years to travel from one solar system to another might not seem excessive to them. It might be 1/40 of a lifetime, equivalent to about two years for many of us. Many folks would volunteer to go -- two years there, two years back. Or what if they have a wonderful form of suspended animation? Or suppose they have mastered wormhole technology and can just zip between the galaxies with ease?
Is there any likelihood that UFOs could be real? Anyone?
Thanks, Joe
Any G11 / G8 users have suggestions on how to easily level the drive when in the field on the supplied tripod?? I can do it but it seems to take minutes longer than w/ my Meade tripod and there might be some 'helpful hints' floating around or is that just the way it is?? Aloha Rob
I don't know about the C11, but I use a level when setting up my Meade. Best wishes, Joe
Hi Joe I usually level the tripod w/ a small spirit level and when the G11 is mounted, the built in levels are not 'level'. I get real close but how close to centered do I really have to be for long periods of un-guided tracking?? I'm just trying to get some understanding of getting the mount on the tripod level while in the field. We observe from a cleared area just off a back road that is dirt and assorted sizes of small lava rocks on a slight tilt or when up on Haleakala we are on a cement cover of the water catchment cistern that is fairly flat. aloha Rob
Yokwe, Rob -- That's a really great question. I always just get it as level as I can, which can be a backbreaking exercise .... Joe
Setting up a telescope is like setting up a Mortar. Whether you're capturing photons or shipping HE, the more precise the alignment, the more accurate the results... I use a Brunton hand transit to set my Meade scopes. I use my scopes in the Alt/Azimuth configuration. In this config, I use a 6" torpedo level to get the head of the tripod as close to 'dead level' as possible in both N/S and E/W planes. With the scope mounted, I use the torpedo level to level the OTA and use the compass portion of the hand transit to set the OTA exactly 14 degrees off Magnetic North which compensates for the magnetic declination of SLC. Once the tripod and scope are level and properly oriented, I can usually fire up the computer, do a mock 2 star alignment and slew directly to Venus in broad daylight if it's up. I have never done any imaging so-to-speak, but I do know that initial set up and proper orientation is paramount if you want either your goto scope or HE round to hit the target dead on every time. I have used the Hand Transit to set the declination on a Wedge for some folks by using the precision angle guage feature and bubble, so I know it would be great for any type of mount. If you know the exact latitude of your position, simply dial it in the transit and use the precision bubble to set the correct angle. You can use it to find your exact latitude as well... Quoting Joe Bauman <bau@desnews.com>:
Yokwe, Rob -- That's a really great question. I always just get it as level as I can, which can be a backbreaking exercise .... Joe
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I guess what I'm really asking is if there are G11 users that have an easier way to do the fine adjustment to the tripod legs to get exact level. I have a 6" bullet level and w/ it I can get a very fine level but it's a real PITA to have to adjust, check, do it again and again and even then it's 'almost' correct. For most folks it's very good, me just OK. I also notice there is a difference from the top of the tripod being level to the levels on the G11. I'll have to see what is correct and then make allowances. I'm coming up w/ a few ideas to how to easily effect leveling of the set up w/o having to do 10 minutes of bending exercises but maybe that's a good thing too ................ aloha and mahalo Rob
Pick your spot and mark it so you can put the tripod in the exact same place every time. That should save some time. And if you wish to set it up and leave it, I guess I could come over and guard it for you. In between the diving of course... ;) Quoting Rob Ratkowski <ratkwski@hawaii.rr.com>:
I guess what I'm really asking is if there are G11 users that have an easier way to do the fine adjustment to the tripod legs to get exact level. I have a 6" bullet level and w/ it I can get a very fine level but it's 'almost' correct. For most folks it's very good, me just OK. I also notice there is a difference from the top of the tripod being level to the levels on the G11. I'll have to see what is correct and then make allowances. I'm coming up w/ a few ideas to how to easily effect leveling of the set up w/o having to do 10 minutes of bending exercises but maybe that's a good thing too ................
aloha and mahalo Rob
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I would appreciate you coming to Maui and guarding the tripod, your trips to TurtleTown at your convenience :^)
The trouble with my Meade bubble is that it's apparently not mounted evenly, and I have to use a separate level to make sure the alignment is right. When I get everything as close to right as I can, and the telescope tracks and aims correctly, the built-in bubble is off. It's off a consistent way and I have marked on it where the top of the air bubble should be, but it's easier to just use the level. Usually I make it pretty level before I put on the Superwede and scope. Then I have to recheck and re-level, but at least it's not as far off as it would be if I had neglected the first leveling. For a 12", usually it's a hassle. -- Joe
--- Rob Ratkowski <ratkwski@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
I guess what I'm really asking is if there are G11 users that have an easier way to do the fine adjustment to the tripod legs to get exact level. I have a 6" bullet level and w/ it I can get a very fine level but it's a real PITA to have to adjust, check, do it again . . . <snip> I'm coming up w/ a few ideas to how to easily effect leveling of the set up w/o having to do 10 minutes of bending exercises but maybe that's a good thing too ................
6 arcseconds with the bubble level and you are complaining? In another thread a few weeks ago, we discussed the polar drift alignment method. Its purpose is to do fine tuned leveling of a scope. There are other math intensive methods for determining polar misalignment error - which is the same as leveling. For example, here is a ridiculously expsensive piece of software that does polar misalignment error analysis - T-Point - and that integrates with TheSky: http://www.bisque.com/Products/TPoint/TPoint.asp#Support In a draft working paper, Michael Covington suggested another simple physical iterative approach to leveling your scope and reducing your polar alignment error. It involves using goto to slew between Polaris and a mid-latitude bright star. Michael Covington. 2001. Polar Alignment by Iterating on Star and Polaris. http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/astro/iterating.pdf#search='polar%20alignment%20error%20telescope' Can't say that I've tried Convington's method. Hope this helps. - Enjoy Canopus56 (Kurt) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
You didn't say if your mount has the goto option. If so I can't help. If not, leveling the tripod only makes the polar more logical. The mount only cares that the r.a. axis is aimed at the pole. But, I still level the tripod using a Brunton and the included levels. But I don't worry about it if the mount isn't exactly level. Seems like the time could be better spent on polar alignment. Bill B. On Sep 7, 2005, at 3:07 PM, Rob Ratkowski wrote:
Any G11 / G8 users have suggestions on how to easily level the drive when in the field on the supplied tripod?? I can do it but it seems to take minutes longer than w/ my Meade tripod and there might be some 'helpful hints' floating around or is that just the way it is??
Aloha Rob
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Hi Bill just came in from the studio and checked my field level against a precision Swedish level and both are on the money. I'm looking to find an easy or easier way to adjust the tripod legs on the G11. It appears that it will be exercise no matter how it's done. Thanks for the help, leveling and polar alignment are easy, I'm just having to learn about the G11 as I have had mine for 36 hours. aloha Rob
William Biesele wrote:
You didn't say if your mount has the goto option. If so I can't help. If not, leveling the tripod only makes the polar more logical. The mount only cares that the r.a. axis is aimed at the pole.
I'll second that. I don't know that I've ever taken much time to level the tripod. I typically just set the wedge and telescope (C-5 or C-8) on the tripod and use a polar finder scope to point the polar axis at the pole. Quick, easy and it works. Patrick
I do not have a Goto G11, I star hop about (more fun that way). I can get the scope fairly level in quick time but now it's about having it REALLY LEVEL and polar aligned. I'll just have to do my bending/squatting exercises and enjoy it all. aloha Rob
Etymology question for the group. Why is this kind of mount called a german equatorial mount? I assume the first word is from the country in which it was invented or popularized. The third word is obvious. But why equatorial instead of polar? It's aimed at the pole not the equator. Bill B On Sep 7, 2005, at 10:32 PM, Patrick Wiggins wrote:
William Biesele wrote:
You didn't say if your mount has the goto option. If so I can't help. If not, leveling the tripod only makes the polar more logical. The mount only cares that the r.a. axis is aimed at the pole.
I'll second that. I don't know that I've ever taken much time to level the tripod.
I typically just set the wedge and telescope (C-5 or C-8) on the tripod and use a polar finder scope to point the polar axis at the pole.
Quick, easy and it works.
Patrick
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participants (7)
-
Canopus56 -
Dale Hooper -
diveboss＠xmission.com -
Joe Bauman -
Patrick Wiggins -
Rob Ratkowski -
William Biesele