I think this article makes SETI scientists out to be rather conspiratorial against interstellar travel. If they are I think it is much more subtle than this article implies. I definitely don't think it would apply to the majority of them. Certainly, if we fully developed known technologies we could have a robotic craft capable of achieving at least 0.1 to 0.2 C that could be launched by the end of the century. Manned interstellar travel - would of course be several orders of magnitude more difficult. Assuming survival of the species, I think robotic exploration of the local set of stars is inevitable. If fact, in some small way we've already started it with Voyager and Pioneer. I was also curious about the drawing of the Allen Radio Telescope Array used in the article. All the other pictures that I've seen of it show the feed horns in more of an "off axis" configuration. I wonder if there has been a design change? Clear & dark skies, Dale.
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces+dale.hooper=sdl.usu.edu@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy- bounces+dale.hooper=sdl.usu.edu@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Wiggins Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 2:00 AM To: utah astronomy listserve Subject: [Utah-astronomy] SETI politics
SETI politics
by Gregory Anderson
Tuesday, September 6, 2005
SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, has a fundamentally fascinating hypothesis.
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/444/1
Patrick
That's an interesting article Patrick posted. A major impediment to interstellar travel that's often brought up in debates about UFOs is the vast distance between the stars. Assuming the speed of light is a limit that can't be exceeded and or even approached very closely, that requires interstellar travel to take years -- sometimes many years. But what if some aliens live as long as bristlecone pines? Spending 100 years to travel from one solar system to another might not seem excessive to them. It might be 1/40 of a lifetime, equivalent to about two years for many of us. Many folks would volunteer to go -- two years there, two years back. Or what if they have a wonderful form of suspended animation? Or suppose they have mastered wormhole technology and can just zip between the galaxies with ease? Is there any likelihood that UFOs could be real? Anyone? Thanks, Joe
Personally, I think it's, well, arrogant to think that the only way to get from point A to point B is to pass through each point between them. Dimensional travel beyond the first three may seem purely fiction, but then so did a computer the size of a wrist watch only a few years ago. :) Having said that, I don't believe we have ever been visited by extraterrestrial spicies; it's just too big of an event to hide. I just don't think that distance is the reason. Rich Allen On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 10:50:46 -0600, Joe Bauman wrote:
�But what if some aliens live as long as bristlecone pines? Spending �100 years to travel from one solar system to another might not seem �excessive to them. It might be 1/40 of a lifetime, equivalent to �about two years for many of us. Many folks would volunteer to go -- �two years there, two years back. Or what if they have a wonderful �form of suspended animation? Or suppose they have mastered wormhole �technology and can just zip between the galaxies with ease?
�Is there any likelihood that UFOs could be real? Anyone?
�Thanks, Joe
I have about as much faith in UFOs as I have in ID being science. Don't get me wrong, I am certain there is other life in the universe capable of great technologic feats. Interstellar travel is probably not one of those feats, however. I've been waiting for aliens to pick me up for years. No takers. Maybe their tractor beams can not lift my mass. Have you ever noticed, they always go for the skinny guys like Patrick. He'd better keep a "heads up". On Sep 7, 2005, at 10:50 AM, Joe Bauman wrote:
That's an interesting article Patrick posted. A major impediment to interstellar travel that's often brought up in debates about UFOs is the vast distance between the stars. Assuming the speed of light is a limit that can't be exceeded and or even approached very closely, that requires interstellar travel to take years -- sometimes many years.
But what if some aliens live as long as bristlecone pines? Spending 100 years to travel from one solar system to another might not seem excessive to them. It might be 1/40 of a lifetime, equivalent to about two years for many of us. Many folks would volunteer to go -- two years there, two years back. Or what if they have a wonderful form of suspended animation? Or suppose they have mastered wormhole technology and can just zip between the galaxies with ease?
Is there any likelihood that UFOs could be real? Anyone?
Thanks, Joe
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And that's odd, because guys like Patrick don't pack enough meat to be a good snack for a Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal, let along any of the bigger and hungrier aliens .... jb
Maybe their tractor beams can not lift my mass. Have you ever noticed, they always go for the skinny guys like Patrick. He'd better keep a "heads up".
Joe Bauman wrote:
And that's odd, because guys like Patrick don't pack enough meat to be a good snack for a Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal, let along any of the bigger and hungrier aliens .... jb
Personally I think that any civilization sufficiently advanced to mount interstellar or intergalactic flights has evolved far beyond the desire to conquer. So I'll continue to watch the skies with hopes of getting a ride and not worry about ending up on some alien's dinner table. Patrick
Hello everybody, Here is a quick report on last weekend's Wolf Creek observing campout. Due to people being in our regular spot, we moved to the top of a nearby hill. I put up a 3' sign saying SLAS. And only (1) person saw it, everyone else drove right by it. Next year a bigger sign. Maybe some bright spotlights. Anyway-- Thursday night We were the only one's there--Perfect. No clouds and no wind. Friday night: Had about 8 people there. The one person that saw the sign, brought the people up from the ridge. Had a few clouds, but was still pretty good observing. Saturday night: Had a lot of clouds, Had about 2 hours of observing before the clouds moved in. Sunday night: Thunderstorms...Then cleared up about 11. Then WIND, saw 100 objects in the binos. Tom Watson got some great lightning shots Thursday night Once again we were the only one's there--Perfect. No clouds and no wind. Steven L. Dodds Nova Optical Systems http://www.nova-optical.com
Quoting "Steven L. Dodds" <steve@pcmw.net>:
Thursday night We were the only one's there--Perfect. No clouds and no wind.
Friday night: Had about 8 people there. The one person that saw the sign, brought the people up from the ridge. Had a few clouds, but was still pretty good observing.
Saturday night: Had a lot of clouds, Had about 2 hours of observing before the clouds moved in.
Sunday night: Thunderstorms...Then cleared up about 11. Then WIND, saw 100 objects in the binos. Tom Watson got some great lightning shots
Thursday night Once again we were the only one's there--Perfect. No clouds and no wind.
What happened to Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday? You need to have folks sign some kind of waiver before they look through your big scope. Especially when there are rodent holes all over the place. I'm bringing a video camera next time. It's pretty funny watching people leave your scope. They are seen rubbing their eyes as they trip over other peoples scopes, or fall into the holes... ;)
Dave Gary wrote:
Have you ever noticed, they always go for the skinny guys like Patrick. He'd better keep a "heads up". On Sep 7, 2005, at 10:50 AM, Joe Bauman wrote:
Alas, one of the biggest disappointments of my life is never having had a UFO experience. Still, maybe one day... Patrick
participants (7)
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Dale Hooper -
Dave Gary -
diveboss＠xmission.com -
Joe Bauman -
Patrick Wiggins -
Rich Allen -
Steven L. Dodds