Some here will remember Brent's EPOD from a couple of years back showing the difference between the north and south arms of the GSL caused by the railroad causeway. http://epod.usra.edu/blog/2012/09/great-salt-lake-causeway.html (north to the left) I was reminded of that earlier today (yesterday if you are reading this Tuesday) when I saw something similar. http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/GSL-1.JPG (railroad causeway on left, causeway described below on the right, in both north is to the left) But the thing is, I was over the south arm, quite near I-80 with Stansbury Island in the distance. It would appear the causeway-like structure in the south end is causing the same thing to happen. So going north to south we now go from blue water to green water, then fades back to blue and one more change to green. My first thought was that his "other" causeway was put there by those that mine minerals from the GSL. http://epod.usra.edu/blog/2012/08/evaporation-ponds-near-great-salt-lake.htm... But as Brent described in his EPOD the water on the south side of the causeway is lower in minerals. To quote the King of Siam, "Is a puzzlement" (here played by a Vladimir Putin look-alike http://vimeo.com/45346724). Another view of the south end color change looking south toward Stansbury Island and the Tooele Valley. http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/GSL-2.JPG patrick
When I worked at Texas Gulf, Inc. (Potash) near Moab, we dyed the solar-evaporative ponds (over 400 acres) with methylene blue. This increased the evaporative rate substantially (darker color, increase solar energy absorption, increase evaporation, increase production). We put the dye in about every 6 to 8 months. It was a powder. If you have seen the movie “Thelma and Louise” you would have seen the large tank where we injected the mixture (the big, insulated, red tank that they drive by when escaping from the authorities). There was a small feeder tank next to that big red tank that we put the powder into. The unlucky ones that were picked to add the powder had a nice blue tint to any exposed skin surface (arms and face, mostly). You would look like a Smurf for about a week. So, the next time you look off Dead Horse Point and see the deep blue color of those ponds you can rest assured it ain’t algae. Dave On Feb 24, 2014, at 23:46, Wiggins Patrick <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
Some here will remember Brent's EPOD from a couple of years back showing the difference between the north and south arms of the GSL caused by the railroad causeway.
http://epod.usra.edu/blog/2012/09/great-salt-lake-causeway.html (north to the left)
I was reminded of that earlier today (yesterday if you are reading this Tuesday) when I saw something similar.
http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/GSL-1.JPG (railroad causeway on left, causeway described below on the right, in both north is to the left)
But the thing is, I was over the south arm, quite near I-80 with Stansbury Island in the distance. It would appear the causeway-like structure in the south end is causing the same thing to happen. So going north to south we now go from blue water to green water, then fades back to blue and one more change to green.
My first thought was that his "other" causeway was put there by those that mine minerals from the GSL. http://epod.usra.edu/blog/2012/08/evaporation-ponds-near-great-salt-lake.htm...
But as Brent described in his EPOD the water on the south side of the causeway is lower in minerals.
To quote the King of Siam, "Is a puzzlement" (here played by a Vladimir Putin look-alike http://vimeo.com/45346724).
Another view of the south end color change looking south toward Stansbury Island and the Tooele Valley. http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/GSL-2.JPG
patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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And so it is that the mystery was solved! "Smurfs". I liked that. :) Thanks, Dave. patrick On 25 Feb 2014, at 04:11, Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> wrote:
When I worked at Texas Gulf, Inc. (Potash) near Moab, we dyed the solar-evaporative ponds (over 400 acres) with methylene blue. This increased the evaporative rate substantially (darker color, increase solar energy absorption, increase evaporation, increase production). We put the dye in about every 6 to 8 months. It was a powder. If you have seen the movie “Thelma and Louise” you would have seen the large tank where we injected the mixture (the big, insulated, red tank that they drive by when escaping from the authorities). There was a small feeder tank next to that big red tank that we put the powder into. The unlucky ones that were picked to add the powder had a nice blue tint to any exposed skin surface (arms and face, mostly). You would look like a Smurf for about a week. So, the next time you look off Dead Horse Point and see the deep blue color of those ponds you can rest assured it ain’t algae.
Dave On Feb 24, 2014, at 23:46, Wiggins Patrick <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
Some here will remember Brent's EPOD from a couple of years back showing the difference between the north and south arms of the GSL caused by the railroad causeway.
http://epod.usra.edu/blog/2012/09/great-salt-lake-causeway.html (north to the left)
I was reminded of that earlier today (yesterday if you are reading this Tuesday) when I saw something similar.
http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/GSL-1.JPG (railroad causeway on left, causeway described below on the right, in both north is to the left)
But the thing is, I was over the south arm, quite near I-80 with Stansbury Island in the distance. It would appear the causeway-like structure in the south end is causing the same thing to happen. So going north to south we now go from blue water to green water, then fades back to blue and one more change to green.
My first thought was that his "other" causeway was put there by those that mine minerals from the GSL. http://epod.usra.edu/blog/2012/08/evaporation-ponds-near-great-salt-lake.htm...
But as Brent described in his EPOD the water on the south side of the causeway is lower in minerals.
To quote the King of Siam, "Is a puzzlement" (here played by a Vladimir Putin look-alike http://vimeo.com/45346724).
Another view of the south end color change looking south toward Stansbury Island and the Tooele Valley. http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/GSL-2.JPG
patrick
The causeway you are looking at was built when I-80 was being constructed. Its purpose was to carry fill from the island for freeway construction. There was actually a belt carrier that brought materials from Antelope Island to the construction site along that causeway. Now, as to the color change, it certainly would need to be another change in mineral content. There isn't much water added to the lake at the south end, and so the salinity must increase. The red color doesn't come from the minerals, but rather from a couple of species of algae and bacteria present in the water that thrive on the high salt content. That's my guess, anyway. BTW, Robert Smithson chose the location for the Spiral Jetty because of the wine red color of the water in the north arm. On Monday, February 24, 2014 11:49 PM, Wiggins Patrick <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote: Some here will remember Brent's EPOD from a couple of years back showing the difference between the north and south arms of the GSL caused by the railroad causeway. http://epod.usra.edu/blog/2012/09/great-salt-lake-causeway.html (north to the left) I was reminded of that earlier today (yesterday if you are reading this Tuesday) when I saw something similar. http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/GSL-1.JPG (railroad causeway on left, causeway described below on the right, in both north is to the left) But the thing is, I was over the south arm, quite near I-80 with Stansbury Island in the distance. It would appear the causeway-like structure in the south end is causing the same thing to happen. So going north to south we now go from blue water to green water, then fades back to blue and one more change to green. My first thought was that his "other" causeway was put there by those that mine minerals from the GSL. http://epod.usra.edu/blog/2012/08/evaporation-ponds-near-great-salt-lake.htm... But as Brent described in his EPOD the water on the south side of the causeway is lower in minerals. To quote the King of Siam, "Is a puzzlement" (here played by a Vladimir Putin look-alike http://vimeo.com/45346724). Another view of the south end color change looking south toward Stansbury Island and the Tooele Valley. http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/GSL-2.JPG patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
Hi Brent, Are you sure you're not thinking of the conveyor belt that ran from Antelope Island to I-80 just west of Salt Lake International? I remember seeing that one in action years ago and still see some of it's right of way when flying west of SLC. There are several references to it on line (Google 21 km conveyor belt utah) but I can't find anything on one connected to Stansbury Island. ??? patrick On 25 Feb 2014, at 07:47, Brent Watson <brentjwatson@yahoo.com> wrote:
The causeway you are looking at was built when I-80 was being constructed. Its purpose was to carry fill from the island for freeway construction. There was actually a belt carrier that brought materials from Antelope Island to the construction site along that causeway.
Now, as to the color change, it certainly would need to be another change in mineral content. There isn't much water added to the lake at the south end, and so the salinity must increase. The red color doesn't come from the minerals, but rather from a couple of species of algae and bacteria present in the water that thrive on the high salt content. That's my guess, anyway.
BTW, Robert Smithson chose the location for the Spiral Jetty because of the wine red color of the water in the north arm.
On Monday, February 24, 2014 11:49 PM, Wiggins Patrick <paw@getbeehive.net> wrote:
Some here will remember Brent's EPOD from a couple of years back showing the difference between the north and south arms of the GSL caused by the railroad causeway.
http://epod.usra.edu/blog/2012/09/great-salt-lake-causeway.html (north to the left)
I was reminded of that earlier today (yesterday if you are reading this Tuesday) when I saw something similar.
http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/GSL-1.JPG (railroad causeway on left, causeway described below on the right, in both north is to the left)
But the thing is, I was over the south arm, quite near I-80 with Stansbury Island in the distance. It would appear the causeway-like structure in the south end is causing the same thing to happen. So going north to south we now go from blue water to green water, then fades back to blue and one more change to green.
My first thought was that his "other" causeway was put there by those that mine minerals from the GSL. http://epod.usra.edu/blog/2012/08/evaporation-ponds-near-great-salt-lake.htm...
But as Brent described in his EPOD the water on the south side of the causeway is lower in minerals.
To quote the King of Siam, "Is a puzzlement" (here played by a Vladimir Putin look-alike http://vimeo.com/45346724).
Another view of the south end color change looking south toward Stansbury Island and the Tooele Valley. http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/GSL-2.JPG
patrick
On 2/25/2014 7:47 AM, Brent Watson wrote:
The causeway you are looking at was built when I-80 was being constructed. Its purpose was to carry fill from the island for freeway construction. There was actually a belt carrier that brought materials from Antelope Island to the construction site along that causeway.
Now, as to the color change, it certainly would need to be another change in mineral content. There isn't much water added to the lake at the south end, and so the salinity must increase. The red color doesn't come from the minerals, but rather from a couple of species of algae and bacteria present in the water that thrive on the high salt content. That's my guess, anyway.
BTW, Robert Smithson chose the location for the Spiral Jetty because of the wine red color of the water in the north arm.
Brent, I was told the red color comes from the higher concentration of brine shrimp, esp. after the causeway was built. I do not know about algae, but as I said in an earlier post, I am going to inquire. As Dufus once said, "an inquiring publc has a right to know". 73
Indeed, I am a few miles too far east. I didn't pick up on the fact that you were looking at Stansbury Island. OK, here's another try. When the pumps were installed in the late 80s to pump water from the lake into the west desert, the new "lake" was used a a concentrating pond for lake water and then it flowed back into the southwest end of the GSL. The water pumped into the west desert was from the north arm, and therefore already saltier and containing the red bacteria and algae. Perhaps the causeway you photographed was to keep this saltier, concentrated water separate from the water returning from the pumps. The red algae Dunaliella Salina and the bacteria species Halobacterium are responsible for the red coloration of the north arm. The green color of the south arm is a result of algae like Dunaliela Virdis. On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 2:49 PM, Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> wrote: On 2/25/2014 7:47 AM, Brent Watson wrote:
The causeway you are looking at was built when I-80 was being constructed. Its purpose was to carry fill from the island for freeway construction. There was actually a belt carrier that brought materials from Antelope Island to the construction site along that causeway. Now, as to the color change, it certainly would need to be another change in mineral content. There isn't much water added to the lake at the south end, and so the salinity must increase. The red color doesn't come from the minerals, but rather from a couple of species of algae and bacteria present in the water that thrive on the high salt content. That's my guess, anyway. BTW, Robert Smithson chose the location for the Spiral Jetty because of the wine red color of the water in the north arm.
Brent, I was told the red color comes from the higher concentration of brine shrimp, esp. after the causeway was built. I do not know about algae, but as I said in an earlier post, I am going to inquire. As Dufus once said, "an inquiring publc has a right to know". 73 _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
For those who might be interested here's a shot I got today showing what's left of the conveyor belt's right of way: http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/belt.jpg patrick On 25 Feb 2014, at 18:14, Brent Watson <brentjwatson@yahoo.com> wrote:
Indeed, I am a few miles too far east. I didn't pick up on the fact that you were looking at Stansbury Island.
OK, here's another try. When the pumps were installed in the late 80s to pump water from the lake into the west desert, the new "lake" was used a a concentrating pond for lake water and then it flowed back into the southwest end of the GSL. The water pumped into the west desert was from the north arm, and therefore already saltier and containing the red bacteria and algae. Perhaps the causeway you photographed was to keep this saltier, concentrated water separate from the water returning from the pumps.
The red algae Dunaliella Salina and the bacteria species Halobacterium are responsible for the red coloration of the north arm. The green color of the south arm is a result of algae like Dunaliela Virdis.
On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 2:49 PM, Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
On 2/25/2014 7:47 AM, Brent Watson wrote:
The causeway you are looking at was built when I-80 was being constructed. Its purpose was to carry fill from the island for freeway construction. There was actually a belt carrier that brought materials from Antelope Island to the construction site along that causeway.
Now, as to the color change, it certainly would need to be another change in mineral content. There isn't much water added to the lake at the south end, and so the salinity must increase. The red color doesn't come from the minerals, but rather from a couple of species of algae and bacteria present in the water that thrive on the high salt content. That's my guess, anyway.
BTW, Robert Smithson chose the location for the Spiral Jetty because of the wine red color of the water in the north arm.
Brent, I was told the red color comes from the higher concentration of brine shrimp, esp. after the causeway was built. I do not know about algae, but as I said in an earlier post, I am going to inquire. As Dufus once said, "an inquiring publc has a right to know". 73
On 2/24/2014 11:46 PM, Wiggins Patrick wrote:
To quote the King of Siam, "Is a puzzlement" (here played by a Vladimir Putin look-alike http://vimeo.com/45346724).
Patrick, the plant pictured is Cargil Salt. _C_ is, I believe, the largest family owned business in the us. If you use their plant as an arrow, you can see the plume from US Mag in the upper part of the picture. I do not know if the ponds are pumped from the north arm, or not (never asked that question), but it might make sense due to the higher salinity there. Or, if not, as the water evaporates, and becomes more and more concentrated, it could turn red due a bacteria change. I don't know about that statement, but I can see the economics of pumping a more concentrated brine. I am going out there next week and will bring up the "puzzlement." BTW, one of my more interesting sales calls was to ride a UP pickup across the current causeway, as we inspected the electronics along the way., eventually protecting their systems against corrosion. If anyone is interested, contact me offline about that trip or the day spent riding w/Dan (and expedition utah members) over the original rail bed from Promontory to the ghost town of Lucin. Coming South to the freeway, we stopped at the sun tunnels. 73
participants (4)
-
Brent Watson -
Dave Gary -
Larry Holmes -
Wiggins Patrick