Joe: It is only Wiki but some information. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Constellation
What? No fans of the "Spruce Goose"?
Joe: It is only Wiki but some information. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Constellation _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
Interesting -- thanks, Erik. -- Joe ________________________________ From: "erikhansen@thebluezone.net" <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Lockheed Constellation
What? No fans of the "Spruce Goose"?
Joe: It is only Wiki but some information. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Constellation _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
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That reminds me: not to be unpatriotic, but two other really cool planes were the ME 109 and the Junkers Trimotor. ________________________________ From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Lockheed Constellation On 9/6/11, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
What? No fans of the "Spruce Goose"?
I was holding-out for the Me 163 Comet. Hey, at least it has an astronomical name, like the Constellation... _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
On 9/6/11, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
That reminds me: not to be unpatriotic, but two other really cool planes were the ME 109 and the Junkers Trimotor.
The 109 is iconic, to be sure. Ever hear of any of the Horton flying wings? It's that technology, part of America's war booty, that got our own Northrop flying wings in the air.
I just got home and found my inbox stuffed with grundles of U-A messages. Nice to see the list so active but I should mention to the new folks that this sort of activity only happens every now and then. Most days on U-A are pretty quiet. Now a few contributions. On 06 Sep 2011, at 15:06, Chuck Hards wrote:
The 109 is iconic, to be sure. Ever hear of any of the Horton flying wings? It's that technology, part of America's war booty, that got our own Northrop flying wings in the air.
Of course there's YouTube video: The original: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjXr5w3M4mc A recent remake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4meQYdaeT58 Now getting back to the Connie (IMHO the most beautiful airliner ever built), here's a fun set of videos featuring Arthur Godfrey (anyone remember him on the radio?) and the Connie: Eastern L-1049 Constellation-"Flying With Arthur Godfrey" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLibuxRboZQ And some of the saddest shots of a Connie I've ever seen but a very good lesson to those learning to fly multiengine aircraft showing why you do not turn into a dead engine: http://366th-tfw.net/wiggins.htm patrick
Quite a few pilots saw those burning on their way down.
That reminds me: not to be unpatriotic, but two other really cool planes
were the ME 109 and the Junkers Trimotor.
________________________________ From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Lockheed Constellation
On 9/6/11, erikhansen@thebluezone.net <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
What? No fans of the "Spruce Goose"?
I was holding-out for the Me 163 Comet. Hey, at least it has an astronomical name, like the Constellation...
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True, but it's also true that the top ace of WW2 flew a 109. I was lucky enough to get his autograph in my flight log a few years back. patrick Sent from my iPad On Sep 6, 2011, at 16:04, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
Quite a few pilots saw those burning on their way down.
That reminds me: not to be unpatriotic, but two other really cool planes
were the ME 109 and the Junkers Trimotor
Patrick, You got Erich Hartmann's autograph before his death in 1993? That is incredible! On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com>wrote:
True, but it's also true that the top ace of WW2 flew a 109. I was lucky enough to get his autograph in my flight log a few years back.
patrick
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 6, 2011, at 16:04, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
Quite a few pilots saw those burning on their way down.
That reminds me: not to be unpatriotic, but two other really cool planes
were the ME 109 and the Junkers Trimotor
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-- Jay Eads
Actually it was General Galland who signed my logbook, but checking the list of WW2 aces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_flying_aces) I found he's way down the list. 104 to Colonel Hartmann's 362. Still I enjoyed meeting and speaking with him. A bit weird though. He was visiting the base where I was stationed so there I was on a US Air Force Base in USAF uniform speaking with a Luftwaffe ace who had shot down more than a few USAF (USAAC back then) fliers. patrick On 06 Sep 2011, at 19:15, Jay Eads wrote:
Patrick,
You got Erich Hartmann's autograph before his death in 1993? That is incredible!
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com>wrote:
True, but it's also true that the top ace of WW2 flew a 109. I was lucky enough to get his autograph in my flight log a few years back.
patrick
On 9/6/11, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com> wrote:
Actually it was General Galland who signed my logbook, but checking the list of WW2 aces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_flying_aces) I found he's way down the list. 104 to Colonel Hartmann's 362.
That's pretty cool, Patrick. Didn't Hartmann score most of his victories on the Russian front? I've heard a lot of US pilots play down his score, claiming he was essentially shooting fish in a barrel. I've never researched his career. Still, number one is number one, to my mind. I have autographs of 7 WWI pilots, including Rickenbacker (a signed copy of his bio), and Willy Coppens (another signed bio), Belgium's ace of aces. Some years ago, I found the grave site of the first American to have shot down an enemy aircraft in combat. He is buried in the Salt Lake City cemetery. James J. Bach, who served with French aviation near the start, some 3 years before the US officially entered the war. The Tribune wrote up an article about my researching his final resting place. I have to tell you, it was a humbling experience to stand before his headstone that sunny morning in May. He was a founding member of the squadron that eventually became known as the Lafayette Escadrille. That fact is etched on his headstone. In a strange twist, a family friend of ours had known Bach and his wife (French consul to Salt Lake at the time) in the '40's and '50's. Bach taught French and Italian at the U of U in those days, and he and his wife were part of Salt Lake "society". Funny that Salt Lake had such a link to WWI. Bach changed his name to the less Germanic-sounding "Buck", a response to anti-German sentiment rising in WW2 America. My high-school drafting instructor was a P-51 ace in WW2, with eleven kills to his credit. I ran into him again about 12 years ago, while having lunch in Bountiful. He was shot-down and spent the last year of the war in a German POW camp. As students, we could never get him to talk about it, other than to say "it's not like Hogan's Heros". He will always be a hero, in my mind. Thank you for your service, Colonel Alan Young.
I was a little amazed when I visited a WWII aircraft museum in Phoenix about the extent of the Russian Air Force. It claimed the Russians dropped more bombs on Germany than the other allies combined.
Did shooting down bombers count towards his kills? or just dogfights. Some accounts put early bombing missions as nearly suicide missions before the P-51. True, but it's also true that the top ace of WW2 flew a 109. I was lucky
enough to get his autograph in my flight log a few years back.
patrick
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 6, 2011, at 16:04, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
Quite a few pilots saw those burning on their way down.
That reminds me: not to be unpatriotic, but two other really cool planes
were the ME 109 and the Junkers Trimotor
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
Erik, He shot down most of his planes on the eastern front against the Russians. The Russians had numbers on their sides, though their planes were not always the best. Hartmann also shot down 7 P-51's in 3 sorties on the western front. Here is his last interview and I love the part where Harmann describes going against a crazy Russian pilot who was very good. http://www.hotlinecy.com/hartmann.htm On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 7:15 PM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I was a little amazed when I visited a WWII aircraft museum in Phoenix about the extent of the Russian Air Force. It claimed the Russians dropped more bombs on Germany than the other allies combined.
Did shooting down bombers count towards his kills? or just dogfights. Some accounts put early bombing missions as nearly suicide missions before the P-51.
True, but it's also true that the top ace of WW2 flew a 109. I was lucky
enough to get his autograph in my flight log a few years back.
patrick
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 6, 2011, at 16:04, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
Quite a few pilots saw those burning on their way down.
That reminds me: not to be unpatriotic, but two other really cool planes
were the ME 109 and the Junkers Trimotor
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-- Jay Eads
That's an amazing interview. -- Joe ________________________________ From: Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Lockheed Constellation Erik, He shot down most of his planes on the eastern front against the Russians. The Russians had numbers on their sides, though their planes were not always the best. Hartmann also shot down 7 P-51's in 3 sorties on the western front. Here is his last interview and I love the part where Harmann describes going against a crazy Russian pilot who was very good. http://www.hotlinecy.com/hartmann.htm On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 7:15 PM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I was a little amazed when I visited a WWII aircraft museum in Phoenix about the extent of the Russian Air Force. It claimed the Russians dropped more bombs on Germany than the other allies combined.
Did shooting down bombers count towards his kills? or just dogfights. Some accounts put early bombing missions as nearly suicide missions before the P-51.
True, but it's also true that the top ace of WW2 flew a 109. I was lucky
enough to get his autograph in my flight log a few years back.
patrick
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 6, 2011, at 16:04, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
Quite a few pilots saw those burning on their way down.
That reminds me: not to be unpatriotic, but two other really cool planes
were the ME 109 and the Junkers Trimotor
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What a site, and what an interview. Thanks for posting it. 73, lh On 9/6/2011 11:42 PM, Joe Bauman wrote:
That's an amazing interview. -- Joe
________________________________ From: Jay Eads<jayleads@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy<utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Lockheed Constellation
Erik,
He shot down most of his planes on the eastern front against the Russians. The Russians had numbers on their sides, though their planes were not always the best. Hartmann also shot down 7 P-51's in 3 sorties on the western front. Here is his last interview and I love the part where Harmann describes going against a crazy Russian pilot who was very good.
http://www.hotlinecy.com/hartmann.htm
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 7:15 PM,<erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I was a little amazed when I visited a WWII aircraft museum in Phoenix about the extent of the Russian Air Force. It claimed the Russians dropped more bombs on Germany than the other allies combined.
Did shooting down bombers count towards his kills? or just dogfights. Some accounts put early bombing missions as nearly suicide missions before the P-51.
True, but it's also true that the top ace of WW2 flew a 109. I was lucky
enough to get his autograph in my flight log a few years back.
patrick
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 6, 2011, at 16:04, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
Quite a few pilots saw those burning on their way down.
That reminds me: not to be unpatriotic, but two other really cool planes
were the ME 109 and the Junkers Trimotor
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It was the interview Erik linked to (see below). Fun read and interesting to hear things from the other side's point of view. patrick Sent from my iPad On Sep 7, 2011, at 17:30, Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
What a site, and what an interview. Thanks for posting it. 73, lh
On 9/6/2011 11:42 PM, Joe Bauman wrote:
That's an amazing interview. -- Joe
________________________________ From: Jay Eads<jayleads@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy<utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Lockheed Constellation
Erik,
He shot down most of his planes on the eastern front against the Russians. The Russians had numbers on their sides, though their planes were not always the best. Hartmann also shot down 7 P-51's in 3 sorties on the western front. Here is his last interview and I love the part where Harmann describes going against a crazy Russian pilot who was very good.
The under powered P-51's? Like the P-51, the later models of the Yaks were a much better match for the ME-109. During the early eastern front some of the Russian fighters were bi-planes.
Erik,
He shot down most of his planes on the eastern front against the Russians. The Russians had numbers on their sides, though their planes were not always the best. Hartmann also shot down 7 P-51's in 3 sorties on the western front. Here is his last interview and I love the part where Harmann describes going against a crazy Russian pilot who was very good.
http://www.hotlinecy.com/hartmann.htm
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 7:15 PM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I was a little amazed when I visited a WWII aircraft museum in Phoenix about the extent of the Russian Air Force. It claimed the Russians dropped more bombs on Germany than the other allies combined.
Did shooting down bombers count towards his kills? or just dogfights. Some accounts put early bombing missions as nearly suicide missions before the P-51.
True, but it's also true that the top ace of WW2 flew a 109. I was lucky
enough to get his autograph in my flight log a few years back.
patrick
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 6, 2011, at 16:04, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
Quite a few pilots saw those burning on their way down.
That reminds me: not to be unpatriotic, but two other really cool planes
were the ME 109 and the Junkers Trimotor
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-- Jay Eads _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
Remember the Bismark? It's rudder was struck by a torpedo launched by a biplane-the Fairley Swordfish. A fluke strike which resulted in the _B's_ rudder being stuck in a turning position. All the _B_ could do was helplessly steam in a large circle until the Royal Navy caught up with it. I do not recall (does some one?) that the US had a biplane in active service at the start of WWII. Of course, most pilots took their first flights in the ubiquitous Stearman, a biplane that is still flown in present day times. Patrick, ever fly one? 73, lh On 9/7/2011 11:36 AM, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
The under powered P-51's? Like the P-51, the later models of the Yaks were a much better match for the ME-109. During the early eastern front some of the Russian fighters were bi-planes.
Erik,
He shot down most of his planes on the eastern front against the Russians. The Russians had numbers on their sides, though their planes were not always the best. Hartmann also shot down 7 P-51's in 3 sorties on the western front. Here is his last interview and I love the part where Harmann describes going against a crazy Russian pilot who was very good.
http://www.hotlinecy.com/hartmann.htm
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 7:15 PM,<erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I was a little amazed when I visited a WWII aircraft museum in Phoenix about the extent of the Russian Air Force. It claimed the Russians dropped more bombs on Germany than the other allies combined.
Did shooting down bombers count towards his kills? or just dogfights. Some accounts put early bombing missions as nearly suicide missions before the P-51.
True, but it's also true that the top ace of WW2 flew a 109. I was lucky
enough to get his autograph in my flight log a few years back.
patrick
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 6, 2011, at 16:04, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
Quite a few pilots saw those burning on their way down.
That reminds me: not to be unpatriotic, but two other really cool planes
were the ME 109 and the Junkers Trimotor
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-- Jay Eads _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
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Larry: I think the Stearman was the last biplane used in war for the U.S. and that was only as a trainer. Other countries used biplanes throughout the war notably Italy, the U.K. and the Soviet Union which had very advanced biplanes. I'm sure there were some left over biplanes used here and there for different things but for all intents and purposes the Stearman was the last of its kind and like you said, still used to today. Bob -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry Holmes Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 3:27 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Lockheed Constellation Remember the Bismark? It's rudder was struck by a torpedo launched by a biplane-the Fairley Swordfish. A fluke strike which resulted in the _B's_ rudder being stuck in a turning position. All the _B_ could do was helplessly steam in a large circle until the Royal Navy caught up with it. I do not recall (does some one?) that the US had a biplane in active service at the start of WWII. Of course, most pilots took their first flights in the ubiquitous Stearman, a biplane that is still flown in present day times. Patrick, ever fly one? 73, lh
Bob, I meant as a trainer when I said they took their first flights in it. I tend to be O & O -- obtuse & obscure... 73, lh On 9/7/2011 3:54 PM, Robert Taylor wrote:
Larry: I think the Stearman was the last biplane used in war for the U.S. and that was only as a trainer. Other countries used biplanes throughout the war notably Italy, the U.K. and the Soviet Union which had very advanced biplanes. I'm sure there were some left over biplanes used here and there for different things but for all intents and purposes the Stearman was the last of its kind and like you said, still used to today.
Bob
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry Holmes Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 3:27 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Lockheed Constellation
Remember the Bismark? It's rudder was struck by a torpedo launched by a biplane-the Fairley Swordfish. A fluke strike which resulted in the _B's_ rudder being stuck in a turning position. All the _B_ could do was helplessly steam in a large circle until the Royal Navy caught up with it. I do not recall (does some one?) that the US had a biplane in active service at the start of WWII. Of course, most pilots took their first flights in the ubiquitous Stearman, a biplane that is still flown in present day times. Patrick, ever fly one? 73, lh
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On 9/7/11, Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
Remember the Bismark? It's rudder was struck by a torpedo launched by a biplane-the Fairley Swordfish.
Get on iTunes and download the History Channel's episode of "Dogfights" that details the sinking of the Bismark. Remarkable digital special effects. The Swordfish gets a lot of screentime. I have it on my iPod now and will bring it to L&O if you like.
Please do. I have watched the History Channel (or Military, or?) showing the 'fish coming off the carrier. And then, the movie, "sink the sob" still had the 'fishes doing their thing. Don't get me wrong, I like the biplane, but that was back in the time when men were men, and sheep ran scared, as they say in Wyoming. 73, lh On 9/7/2011 5:38 PM, Chuck Hards wrote:
On 9/7/11, Larry Holmes<larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
Remember the Bismark? It's rudder was struck by a torpedo launched by a biplane-the Fairley Swordfish. Get on iTunes and download the History Channel's episode of "Dogfights" that details the sinking of the Bismark. Remarkable digital special effects. The Swordfish gets a lot of screentime.
I have it on my iPod now and will bring it to L&O if you like.
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Alas, no I've not flown a Stearman. However a friend just bought one so maybe one day I will. But first he has to drag the pieces out of a field in Idaho, bring them to SLC and put it together. No I wont be the test pilot. :) IIRC SLAS member and former U-A list member Bill Kennedy has worked on the Stearman that's hangered in Heber (hmmm, I think I'll forward this to him). And funny you should mention the Steaman as just a few minutes ago the following about the 2011 National Stearman Fly-In showed up in my inbox: http://www.galesburg.com/features/x1638744105/Stearman-pilots-picnic-on-open... patrick p.s. I'm trying to image tonight and the seeing is awful! :( On 07 Sep 2011, at 15:26, Larry Holmes wrote:
Remember the Bismark? It's rudder was struck by a torpedo launched by a biplane-the Fairley Swordfish. A fluke strike which resulted in the _B's_ rudder being stuck in a turning position. All the _B_ could do was helplessly steam in a large circle until the Royal Navy caught up with it. I do not recall (does some one?) that the US had a biplane in active service at the start of WWII. Of course, most pilots took their first flights in the ubiquitous Stearman, a biplane that is still flown in present day times. Patrick, ever fly one? 73, lh
On 9/7/2011 11:36 AM, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
The under powered P-51's? Like the P-51, the later models of the Yaks were a much better match for the ME-109. During the early eastern front some of the Russian fighters were bi-planes.
Erik,
He shot down most of his planes on the eastern front against the Russians. The Russians had numbers on their sides, though their planes were not always the best. Hartmann also shot down 7 P-51's in 3 sorties on the western front. Here is his last interview and I love the part where Harmann describes going against a crazy Russian pilot who was very good.
http://www.hotlinecy.com/hartmann.htm
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 7:15 PM,<erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I was a little amazed when I visited a WWII aircraft museum in Phoenix about the extent of the Russian Air Force. It claimed the Russians dropped more bombs on Germany than the other allies combined.
Did shooting down bombers count towards his kills? or just dogfights. Some accounts put early bombing missions as nearly suicide missions before the P-51.
True, but it's also true that the top ace of WW2 flew a 109. I was lucky
enough to get his autograph in my flight log a few years back.
patrick
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 6, 2011, at 16:04, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
> Quite a few pilots saw those burning on their way down.
That reminds me: not to be unpatriotic, but two other really cool planes > were the ME 109 and the Junkers Trimotor
Eric, I have been fortunate to have seen the "goose" twice. First, in Long Beach, CA when it was moved from its hanger (sided with the first aluminum siding panel manufactured by E B Kaiser Co) to the cement dome next to the berth occupied by the Queen Mary. Happened that 2 of us from SLC were in a coatings school--a week long course held on the Queen. Man, a fancy room, tho small. This liner was the foundation for the original Poseidon Adventure disaster movie. Anyway, we got to go out to the fantail and watch it being towed, while surrounded by a small flotilla of pleasure craft. The dome was closed during installation, so did not get up close and personal at that time. However, some years back, Carol & I were on our way to the Oregon Coast (gee, we miss it) and stopped at the new hanger built for it in McMinville, OR by the Evergreen International Aviation museum. I have a number of photos shot during that stop and will try to remember to bring them to L & O this Sat. Is that still a go? Also there are a number of WWII warbirds on exhibit, including one of only 3 flyable Messerschmitt 109G's in the world! BTW, for what it is worth, my favorite warbird is "The Fork Tailed Devil", from WWII (sorry, Chuck, no oil and exhaust in the face for me!). One other memorial series of events for me was watching the fabled Pan Am "China Clippers" taking off from the bay at San Francisco and flying _under_ the Golden Gate Bridge on their way to the Orient. Many more stories like this. Apologize for rambling, but, so many stories, so little time.... 73 lh On 9/6/2011 1:49 PM, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
What? No fans of the "Spruce Goose"?
Joe: It is only Wiki but some information. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Constellation _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
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