Here, Here! I'd love to "let things cool down." Unfortunately, the Trib has already followed-up with another unfavorable article: http://www.sltrib.com/search/index.asp?target=meteorites. Incidentally, I have an appointment today to meet with Bill White and another official from BLM. In my initial conversation with BLM they didn't "blow us off" - just wanted to have us go through the process to obtain a permit. -----Original Message----- From: Larry Frisk [mailto:lkfrisk@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 12:01 AM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Meteorites on the Salt Flats Ok, Will do. But I think Kim made a good point about pot holes from digging. I am very careful about leaving the ground or grass just like I found it but Kim, Brent, Patrick, and you all have your names in print and so they would probably seek you guys out if there was any damage. I should mention that the metal detector that I built was from plans that I found in a magazine or somewhere and not my own smarts. The coil was lacquered copper wire and rectangular in shape. It was a very simple instrument. Modern commercial detectors can be set to discriminate out all but certain metals so it may be possible to ignore brass shell casings. For the time being I would like to let things cool down a bit. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Hards" <chuckhards@yahoo.com> To: <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Meteorites on the Salt Flats
Be sure to let us know if this is possible, Larry.
I'd be willing to build the coil, if supplied with a reasonable design and given plenty of advance notice.
Anybody got a few miles of magnet-wire laying around? ;)
Chuck
--- Larry Frisk <lkfrisk@earthlink.net> wrote:
You are correct Chuck. The coil is removable. That sounds like a pretty good idea. I built my first metal detector from scratch and it worked pretty well. There are a couple of local clubs that have years of experience using metal detectors. I may try to contact one of them and see what they think. Thanks for the idea.
Larry
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On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Kim Hyatt wrote:
Unfortunately, the Trib has already followed-up with another unfavorable article: http://www.sltrib.com/search/index.asp?target=meteorites.
This is just unbelievable. Do you suppose the Air Force has BLM permits to drop bombs on the "environmentally sensitive" west desert? Sadly, they probably do: I don't even want to think about how many millions of dollars the government has spent on "impact studies" (of the environmental kind, har) for the Utah Test and Training Range. This is your government at work for you? If ever anyone required proof that the federal government is overflowing with bureaucrats who have too little to do, I think the comments of Mr. Nelson and Mr. White have removed all doubt. A good friend of mine had a great idea: in addition to bowling balls, let's apply for permits to "drop" a few useless federal bureaucrats too. (kidding!) :-) Chris
Augh! I just want everyone to know that none of us involved in the project had any intention of telling the media about it until we had all the necessary permissions. Unfortunately, someone called a reporter and that's how it got started. My thanks, BTW, to Joe Bauman and Steven Baron (D. News and Channel 13), both of whom monitor this list and who knew about the project but were sitting on it until the project was ready to go public. They only acted once the story got out. As for the person who blabbed, well, I wish you hadn't. And I guess I'm just a bit amazed that the BLM (Bossy Little Men? <g>) would think we'd drop things without first checking to ensure the drop zone is clear. Being thought of as a weirdo is one thing, but a *stupid* weirdo is another thing altogether. Patrick
I've taken some heat for this at work myself. I was contacted by both reporters the same day, (though only quoted by one-Patrick, what's your secret?) but only being an interested bystander at this point I limited my comments to those of an observer, noted the pros & cons of the idea as I saw them, but certainly did my best to offer encouragement, and told both pretty much the same thing. In retrospect, and here speaking as an observer only-please let me know if you think I'm missing something or incorrect- I think what gave this idea "legs", in addition to the magic words "Salt Flats", "bowling ball", and "aircraft", was that in neither story was it made completely clear that at this stage, this was just brainstorming and no serious schedule to CARRY OUT such an experiment was ever really discussed, to my knowledge, although the statement in the Trib story that "We have an aircraft lined up..." does imply that the experiment is in-progress. Also the statements in the News story, "We'll do it" and the statement that a local charter service WILL supply a Cessna AND pilot played into this also. The News story did present it as serious science, whereas the Trib story made light of it several times, and this is what I think triggered the morning DJ's to latch onto it, combined with the Trib follow-up bringing the BLM concerns to the public. BTW, if the BLM were genuinely concerned, rather than after PR, I'd think that they would have contacted the principals directly. And think about this: if the word "bowling ball" was never mentioned, "projectile" replacing it- this wouldn't have gotten as far as it did. People tend to ridicule what they don't understand, unfortunately. All they saw was that phrase "dropping bowling balls from airplanes", and the villagers headed for the castle with torches lit and pitchforks waving. Finally, knowing both newspaper writers personally, I hope that this little "adventure" doesn't bring any ill will. Both are avid amateur astronomers, I enjoy the company of both, and I plan on seeing both again under the stars many times in the future! Chuck --- Patrick Wiggins <paw@trilobyte.net> wrote:
Augh!
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Chuck Hards wrote:
I was contacted by both reporters the same day, (though only quoted by one-Patrick, what's your secret?)
Secret? Curse? Not sure which it is.
I think what gave this idea "legs", in addition to the magic words "Salt Flats", "bowling ball", and "aircraft", was that in neither story was it made completely clear that at this stage, this was just brainstorming and no serious schedule to CARRY OUT such an experiment was ever really discussed IMHO... You are correct. There was lots of talk (and not even a lot of the last week) but no action. Then on the 28th of last month I emailed a friend who is good at physics and asked how long it would take a bowling ball to reach terminal.
I received an answer on the 2nd of this month and posted the reply here. And the thread developed from there.
to my knowledge, although the statement in the Trib story that "We have an aircraft lined up..." Shortly after that post I exchanged emails with Brent and that's when he confirmed he'd like to use his plane.
At that point (as far as I know) no one had talked to the media except when Joe called me and asked about doing a story and I asked he hold off until we knew what we were going to do. A day or so later the Tribune called me. I again tried the "let's hold off angle" but he said he just wanted to do a fun story about what was being considered. I really liked the Trib's story, BTW. Very funny. Especially the reference to Roadrunner physics. And, I might add, the story got back to the folks at JPL and one of them emailed me to say she and her staff loved it. (legal disclaimer: the JPL emailer was not speaking officially for JPL.)
Finally, knowing both newspaper writers personally, I hope that this little "adventure" doesn't bring any ill will. Both are avid amateur astronomers, I enjoy the company of both, and I plan on seeing both again under the stars many times in the future! Agreed. It's great to have such science minded folks in the local media. Keep it coming guys!
Patrick
Hi Guys, I've been out of the loop for a few days and wanted jump in on the discussion. As the reporter who had the story second, I feel certain all of this publicity is doing a world of good for Utah astronomy. It really fuels public interest and it raises a few legitimate questions: are there meteorites out there to be found, and what's the physics of falling objects? It's a load of fun, appealing to the sense of wonder that we all have. It excites the imagination of the public partly because it relates ordinary objects, bowling balls, with extraordinary ones, meteorites -- and partly because of the sheer joy of dropping things from great height. It involves a resource that is peculiar to Utah, the salt flats. I think it's a fun story and nobody should be upset over it. With patience, everything will be worked out with the BLM and a classic experiment will catch the public's interest and answer a few questions too. Just my 2 cents' worth. -- Joe Joe Bauman science & military reporter Deseret News bau@desnews.com (801) 237-2169
Joe, I think that you are absoulutely correct. It has been said that there is no such thing as bad publicity! Chuck --- Joe Bauman <bau@desnews.com> wrote:
Hi Guys, I've been out of the loop for a few days and wanted jump in on the discussion. As the reporter who had the story second, I feel certain all of this publicity is doing a world of good for Utah astronomy. It really fuels public interest and it raises a few legitimate questions: are there meteorites out there to be found, and what's the physics of falling objects? It's a load of fun, appealing to the sense of wonder that we all have. It excites the imagination of the public partly because it relates ordinary objects, bowling balls, with extraordinary ones, meteorites -- and partly because of the sheer joy of dropping things from great height. It involves a resource that is peculiar to Utah, the salt flats. I think it's a fun story and nobody should be upset over it. With patience, everything will be worked out with the BLM and a classic experiment will catch the public's interest and answer a few questions too. Just my 2 cents' worth. -- Joe
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participants (5)
-
Chris Clark -
Chuck Hards -
Joe Bauman -
Kim Hyatt -
Patrick Wiggins