Re: [Utah-astronomy] member loaner scope vs school subsidy
I have been keenly interested in this discussion of the SLAS telescope loaner program because I am both a long time purveyor of school star parties (I estimate I've personally done about 500 since 1981), and, since 2001, have been a high school teacher of math, physics, engineering, and astronomy. Many of you, I'm sure, recall the Iomega Astronomy Enrichment program that Brent Watson and I conducted in the 1990's. With $50,000 from Iomega, and additional other funding sources such as Eisenhower grants, we build and placed about 320 6 inch f-10 telescopes in schools scattered over most of Utah and nearby corners of Idaho and Wyoming. We conducted workshops for groups of carefully selected teachers to give them the rudements of amateur astronomy, a working knowledge of telescopes, and a beginning understanding of the night sky. We are still very proud of that effort, and I frequently encounter teachers who either are still using those telescopes or want information, help, and training on how to use telescopes they inherited from predecessors. Yes, a few ended up as "trophy" telescopes (you know what I mean... they end up as impressive conversation pieces or classroom decorations, but never see starlight), and a few have ended up in storage rooms with lost or damaged eyepieces and mirrors covered with mouse poop and urine (yes, we've actually seen that, too). The feedback I get, however, is that most of them are still actually in use, being checked out to students who take them home or used at school star parties. Towards the end of the 1990's, however, we found it harder and harder to recruit teachers to participate in our program. We came to the conclusion that the supply had pretty much met the demand. Teachers who wanted telescopes and were willing to put them to good use had them. Brent and I were both disappointed at the apparent lack of interest on the part of so many teachers. We realized that our goal of placing a telescope in every elementary school was not realistic. Having said all that, I have to agree with those who realize that the scope of SLAS's outreach programs has to be limited by the resources available (loaner telescopes and precious member time) to those willing to join their time and interests with those of SLAS. Don't feel bad about those limits. You are all such giving people, but like teachers, you will never really know how many lives you've touched or how many kids' interest in math, science, and astronomy you have kindled. I agree with Chuck that universities should be looking to promote more astronomy programs in high schools to feed their programs, but where do you think the kids who take classes like mine come from? They come families whose kids have attended your star parties and lectures, whether as students at their schools, as boy scouts at camps, or visitors to national parks. In response to my question, about two-thirds of my 24 astronomy students have attended the kinds of activities conducted by groups like SLAS or OAC. You are out there doing great work, and I thank you for it. Keep it up, but don't try to run faster than you are able. Sorry this has run on so long, but now for my conclusion: just keep doing what you are doing. The teachers who want star parties are, for the most part getting them, and mostly for free, too! Sincerely, Wayne A. Sumner Math/Physics/Astronomy/Engineering Boy's Tennis Coach Northridge High School Davis School District (801) 402-8610
Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> 04/15/09 3:38 PM >>> I keep thinking of the U of U astronomy professors have talked about SLAS being a "feeder" of interested students into the program up there, when they should be looking to the area high-school science departments. A much, much bigger potential pool of candidates there. Obviously there is a disconnect somewhere. I'm not blaming the teachers, it's probably systemic in nature.
Echoing Rodger and Roger, SLAS seems to be where the astronomically-inclined spend their "golden" years, not their formative ones. Well, myself excluded, lol. Bruce, Patrick, Mark; all the club "elders" need to be mentoring their eventual successors now. I'm doing this where I work. I hired a young kid and have been taking him through an apprenticeship, with the goal of him taking over for me when I retire. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Wayne,
I wonder if there is something other than providing telescopes that can be done. You make a clear point that what is needed is interest from teachers. Perhaps what is needed is more leadership from the Universities Astronomy and Physics Dept. SLAS could play a role but I doubt it is a leading role. You also make a good point that we should not run faster than we are able. We do seem close to that with the number of Star Parties (it is hard to find an astro club that does more) we support. Perhaps that is all we are capable of, personally I feel we should promote our public star parties more in the public school system. I personally would be willing to operate the Grim for school groups. Also, perhaps all we need do is tell teachers who contact us that we have some resources to give them as far as acquiring educational material. Perhaps we will encounter someone as enthusiastic as yourself. Perhaps the best SLAS could do is acquire an inventory of programs available from the Astronomical Society of the Pacific (for example), as Jay eluded to, and make them available to the schools. These could also be utilized in for club meetings. Erik I have been keenly interested in this discussion of the SLAS telescope
loaner program because I am both a long time purveyor of school star parties (I estimate I've personally done about 500 since 1981), and, since 2001, have been a high school teacher of math, physics, engineering, and astronomy. Many of you, I'm sure, recall the Iomega Astronomy Enrichment program that Brent Watson and I conducted in the 1990's. With $50,000 from Iomega, and additional other funding sources such as Eisenhower grants, we build and placed about 320 6 inch f-10 telescopes in schools scattered over most of Utah and nearby corners of Idaho and Wyoming. We conducted workshops for groups of carefully selected teachers to give them the rudements of amateur astronomy, a working knowledge of telescopes, and a beginning understanding of the night sky. We are still very proud of that effort, and I frequently encounter teachers who either are still using those telescopes or want information, help, and training on how to use telescopes they inherited from predecessors. Yes, a few ended up as "trophy" telescopes (you know what I mean... they end up as impressive conversation pieces or classroom decorations, but never see starlight), and a few have ended up in storage rooms with lost or damaged eyepieces and mirrors covered with mouse poop and urine (yes, we've actually seen that, too). The feedback I get, however, is that most of them are still actually in use, being checked out to students who take them home or used at school star parties. Towards the end of the 1990's, however, we found it harder and harder to recruit teachers to participate in our program. We came to the conclusion that the supply had pretty much met the demand. Teachers who wanted telescopes and were willing to put them to good use had them. Brent and I were both disappointed at the apparent lack of interest on the part of so many teachers. We realized that our goal of placing a telescope in every elementary school was not realistic. Having said all that, I have to agree with those who realize that the scope of SLAS's outreach programs has to be limited by the resources available (loaner telescopes and precious member time) to those willing to join their time and interests with those of SLAS. Don't feel bad about those limits. You are all such giving people, but like teachers, you will never really know how many lives you've touched or how many kids' interest in math, science, and astronomy you have kindled. I agree with Chuck that universities should be looking to promote more astronomy programs in high schools to feed their programs, but where do you think the kids who take classes like mine come from? They come families whose kids have attended your star parties and lectures, whether as students at their schools, as boy scouts at camps, or visitors to national parks. In response to my question, about two-thirds of my 24 astronomy students have attended the kinds of activities conducted by groups like SLAS or OAC. You are out there doing great work, and I thank you for it. Keep it up, but don't try to run faster than you are able. Sorry this has run on so long, but now for my conclusion: just keep doing what you are doing. The teachers who want star parties are, for the most part getting them, and mostly for free, too!
Sincerely, Wayne A. Sumner Math/Physics/Astronomy/Engineering Boy's Tennis Coach Northridge High School Davis School District (801) 402-8610
Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> 04/15/09 3:38 PM >>> I keep thinking of the U of U astronomy professors have talked about SLAS being a "feeder" of interested students into the program up there, when they should be looking to the area high-school science departments. A much, much bigger potential pool of candidates there. Obviously there is a disconnect somewhere. I'm not blaming the teachers, it's probably systemic in nature.
Echoing Rodger and Roger, SLAS seems to be where the astronomically-inclined spend their "golden" years, not their formative ones.
Well, myself excluded, lol.
Bruce, Patrick, Mark; all the club "elders" need to be mentoring their eventual successors now. I'm doing this where I work. I hired a young kid and have been taking him through an apprenticeship, with the goal of him taking over for me when I retire. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
We also need to remember that only a small percentage of the kids themselves will ever be interested in astronomy enough to make them seek out a telescope after their initial exposure. My daughter has had access to the telescopic sky her entire life, as have her friends, but none of them have ever been interested enough to want to devote more time under the stars after satisfying their curiosity. It's taken me a long time to realize that enthusiasm for astronomy isn't particularly contagious. If you host a star party for a hundred people, the next time, maybe 20 of those will come back. The third time, five. The fourth time, one or two. That's the way it goes for the "missionary" I suppose. On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 10:00 AM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I wonder if there is something other than providing telescopes that can be done. You make a clear point that what is needed is interest from teachers. Perhaps what is needed is more leadership from the Universities Astronomy and Physics Dept. SLAS could play a role but I doubt it is a leading role.
Did you daughter get the proper indoctrination and subliminal messages?
We also need to remember that only a small percentage of the kids
themselves will ever be interested in astronomy enough to make them seek out a telescope after their initial exposure.
My daughter has had access to the telescopic sky her entire life, as have her friends, but none of them have ever been interested enough to want to devote more time under the stars after satisfying their curiosity.
It's taken me a long time to realize that enthusiasm for astronomy isn't particularly contagious. If you host a star party for a hundred people, the next time, maybe 20 of those will come back. The third time, five. The fourth time, one or two.
That's the way it goes for the "missionary" I suppose.
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 10:00 AM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
I wonder if there is something other than providing telescopes that can be done. You make a clear point that what is needed is interest from teachers. Perhaps what is needed is more leadership from the Universities Astronomy and Physics Dept. SLAS could play a role but I doubt it is a leading role.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
I have put together a powerpoint presentation that I present at schools on the size of the universe. It is always a big hit. I use a model of our solar system with the sun being a basketball and then I download a google satelite image of the neighborhood where the school is located and superimpose where the planets would be on the map. The students always like this and I get good feedback from them that they are amaized how big the universe is when I go through the presentation. Perhaps we need more of these type of presentations that start the kids thinking about the universe around them. Rodger Fry ----- Original Message ----- From: <erikhansen@TheBlueZone.net> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] member loaner scope vs school subsidy
Wayne,
I wonder if there is something other than providing telescopes that can be done. You make a clear point that what is needed is interest from teachers. Perhaps what is needed is more leadership from the Universities Astronomy and Physics Dept. SLAS could play a role but I doubt it is a leading role.
You also make a good point that we should not run faster than we are able. We do seem close to that with the number of Star Parties (it is hard to find an astro club that does more) we support. Perhaps that is all we are capable of, personally I feel we should promote our public star parties more in the public school system. I personally would be willing to operate the Grim for school groups. Also, perhaps all we need do is tell teachers who contact us that we have some resources to give them as far as acquiring educational material. Perhaps we will encounter someone as enthusiastic as yourself.
Perhaps the best SLAS could do is acquire an inventory of programs available from the Astronomical Society of the Pacific (for example), as Jay eluded to, and make them available to the schools. These could also be utilized in for club meetings.
Erik
I have been keenly interested in this discussion of the SLAS telescope
loaner program because I am both a long time purveyor of school star parties (I estimate I've personally done about 500 since 1981), and, since 2001, have been a high school teacher of math, physics, engineering, and astronomy. Many of you, I'm sure, recall the Iomega Astronomy Enrichment program that Brent Watson and I conducted in the 1990's. With $50,000 from Iomega, and additional other funding sources such as Eisenhower grants, we build and placed about 320 6 inch f-10 telescopes in schools scattered over most of Utah and nearby corners of Idaho and Wyoming. We conducted workshops for groups of carefully selected teachers to give them the rudements of amateur astronomy, a working knowledge of telescopes, and a beginning understanding of the night sky. We are still very proud of that effort, and I frequently encounter teachers who either are still using those telescopes or want information, help, and training on how to use telescopes they inherited from predecessors. Yes, a few ended up as "trophy" telescopes (you know what I mean... they end up as impressive conversation pieces or classroom decorations, but never see starlight), and a few have ended up in storage rooms with lost or damaged eyepieces and mirrors covered with mouse poop and urine (yes, we've actually seen that, too). The feedback I get, however, is that most of them are still actually in use, being checked out to students who take them home or used at school star parties. Towards the end of the 1990's, however, we found it harder and harder to recruit teachers to participate in our program. We came to the conclusion that the supply had pretty much met the demand. Teachers who wanted telescopes and were willing to put them to good use had them. Brent and I were both disappointed at the apparent lack of interest on the part of so many teachers. We realized that our goal of placing a telescope in every elementary school was not realistic. Having said all that, I have to agree with those who realize that the scope of SLAS's outreach programs has to be limited by the resources available (loaner telescopes and precious member time) to those willing to join their time and interests with those of SLAS. Don't feel bad about those limits. You are all such giving people, but like teachers, you will never really know how many lives you've touched or how many kids' interest in math, science, and astronomy you have kindled. I agree with Chuck that universities should be looking to promote more astronomy programs in high schools to feed their programs, but where do you think the kids who take classes like mine come from? They come families whose kids have attended your star parties and lectures, whether as students at their schools, as boy scouts at camps, or visitors to national parks. In response to my question, about two-thirds of my 24 astronomy students have attended the kinds of activities conducted by groups like SLAS or OAC. You are out there doing great work, and I thank you for it. Keep it up, but don't try to run faster than you are able. Sorry this has run on so long, but now for my conclusion: just keep doing what you are doing. The teachers who want star parties are, for the most part getting them, and mostly for free, too!
Sincerely, Wayne A. Sumner Math/Physics/Astronomy/Engineering Boy's Tennis Coach Northridge High School Davis School District (801) 402-8610
Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> 04/15/09 3:38 PM >>> I keep thinking of the U of U astronomy professors have talked about SLAS being a "feeder" of interested students into the program up there, when they should be looking to the area high-school science departments. A much, much bigger potential pool of candidates there. Obviously there is a disconnect somewhere. I'm not blaming the teachers, it's probably systemic in nature.
Echoing Rodger and Roger, SLAS seems to be where the astronomically-inclined spend their "golden" years, not their formative ones.
Well, myself excluded, lol.
Bruce, Patrick, Mark; all the club "elders" need to be mentoring their eventual successors now. I'm doing this where I work. I hired a young kid and have been taking him through an apprenticeship, with the goal of him taking over for me when I retire. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
participants (4)
-
Chuck Hards -
erikhansen＠TheBlueZone.net -
Rodger C. Fry -
Wayne Sumner