For tonights peak of the Leonid meteor shower the good news is that the weather will be clear and the moon is out of the night time sky. The bad news is the weather. Last night at the Pony Express marker, which is close to "pit n pole", the temperature dropped to zero and the humidity spiked up to 90 percent. So anything optical like a telescope, or camera lense will suffer from frost and be useless without vigorous countermeasures. There is no measurable inversion so climbing up a ridge line will not get you out of these frost conditions. I would suggest anyone going out to try leave the optics home and plan on a survival strategy like two cars and a tow strap. As well as your warmest winter clothing. I plan to go to Little Mountain after midnight but don't plan to say long enough to get frostbite. Good Luck DT
Good advice. With a peak predicted for about 3 am our time, I was even thinking about Little Mountain at about 2-ish. My winter meteor observing outerwear consists of insulated overalls plus parka, navy watch cap plus hood if needed, snowmobile sox, electric sox if needed. I can last for most of the night dressed like this. If you have a manual transmission, park facing downhill if you think your car battery is marginal. On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 10:59 AM, daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com>wrote:
For tonights peak of the Leonid meteor shower the good news is that the weather will be clear and the moon is out of the night time sky.
The bad news is the weather. Last night at the Pony Express marker, which is close to "pit n pole", the temperature dropped to zero and the humidity spiked up to 90 percent. So anything optical like a telescope, or camera lense will suffer from frost and be useless without vigorous countermeasures. There is no measurable inversion so climbing up a ridge line will not get you out of these frost conditions.
I would suggest anyone going out to try leave the optics home and plan on a survival strategy like two cars and a tow strap. As well as your warmest winter clothing.
I plan to go to Little Mountain after midnight but don't plan to say long enough to get frostbite.
Good Luck
DT
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Good advice Daniel and Chuck. I'm going to just stick at home tonight in the backyard. Humidity according to the Clear Sky Clock that I use http://www.cleardarksky.com/c/WstJrdnUTkey.html?1 seems to peak humidity between 6:00p.m. and 7:00p.m with it sticking around 50% there after. Using the Dob it acts like one big dew shield and open clusters that I am going for tonight shouldn't be hurt. I have to be at the courthouse tomorrow at 9:00a.m. so I don't think I'll be going anywhere unfortunately for the Leonids. For cold weather I wear a top and bottom of long underwear (I have a fleece pair and a pair for snowmobiling that aren't cotton that work well. I have some wick away socks I put on, then my wool pair and then my snow boots that are insulted. Feet are now toasting warm. Next come a pair of sweats, followed by a nylon type pant that goes over to cut the wind. No jeans for me, the wind tears through jeans in my experience. My torso is covered with the long johns, then a tee shirt that is long, then a long sleeve sweat shirt, then a synthetic sweater designed for deep cold, then another hooded sweatshirt, then my layered parka. For gloves I have a pair of gloves where the fingers can be exposed to use. The only thing I am missing is a thin pair of gloves to cover my hands entirely and that go on first, then the thicker gloves that allow the fingers to be exposed while observing. There's some pretty good tips at this link also: http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=1901 I do use the hot hands and they really do work. I stick mine near the top of the palm and then can coil my fingers into a fist and the heat radiates into them. Then sometimes if I am at home or even in the field, I'll head indoors if I get too cold or head into the car and start her up. Starting the car in the field helps me to preserve peace of mind since it is charging the battery while keeping me warm. Just make sure you leave with a full tank of gas and it doesn't hurt whether for observing or just in case to have an emergency winter kit in the car. On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Good advice.
With a peak predicted for about 3 am our time, I was even thinking about Little Mountain at about 2-ish.
My winter meteor observing outerwear consists of insulated overalls plus parka, navy watch cap plus hood if needed, snowmobile sox, electric sox if needed. I can last for most of the night dressed like this.
If you have a manual transmission, park facing downhill if you think your car battery is marginal.
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 10:59 AM, daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com
wrote:
For tonights peak of the Leonid meteor shower the good news is that the weather will be clear and the moon is out of the night time sky.
The bad news is the weather. Last night at the Pony Express marker, which is close to "pit n pole", the temperature dropped to zero and the humidity spiked up to 90 percent. So anything optical like a telescope, or camera lense will suffer from frost and be useless without vigorous countermeasures. There is no measurable inversion so climbing up a ridge line will not get you out of these frost conditions.
I would suggest anyone going out to try leave the optics home and plan on a survival strategy like two cars and a tow strap. As well as your warmest winter clothing.
I plan to go to Little Mountain after midnight but don't plan to say long enough to get frostbite.
Good Luck
DT
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Wow! Here's how I picture Jay, dressed for winter observing: http://www.redriderleglamps.com/images/products/randy_card.jpg
Just keep him away from the Red Ryder BB gun! --- On Mon, 11/16/09, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote: From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leonid weather report To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 5:32 PM Wow! Here's how I picture Jay, dressed for winter observing: http://www.redriderleglamps.com/images/products/randy_card.jpg _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Chuck, You really made me laugh! That's close . . . to a point. No scarf and add some major weight to that kid and you'll have me. What was funnier is my wife made the same comment last night (as she did last year etc.). On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Just keep him away from the Red Ryder BB gun!
--- On Mon, 11/16/09, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leonid weather report To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 5:32 PM
Wow!
Here's how I picture Jay, dressed for winter observing:
http://www.redriderleglamps.com/images/products/randy_card.jpg _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
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I got a good laugh too. Thanks for the tips everyone. I was wondering how to pursue this hobby in Utah. I can't believe it got that cold at the pony express marker last night. On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com> wrote:
Chuck,
You really made me laugh! That's close . . . to a point. No scarf and add some major weight to that kid and you'll have me. What was funnier is my wife made the same comment last night (as she did last year etc.).
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Just keep him away from the Red Ryder BB gun!
--- On Mon, 11/16/09, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leonid weather report To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 5:32 PM
Wow!
Here's how I picture Jay, dressed for winter observing:
http://www.redriderleglamps.com/images/products/randy_card.jpg _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
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Here's me minus my coat. http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f203/ArathornJax/IMG_0913.jpg Pretty close eh? It's good to laugh, better when one can laugh at oneself. I will say though I can stay out for six hours or more! On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Craig Smith <cs2560@gmail.com> wrote:
I got a good laugh too.
Thanks for the tips everyone. I was wondering how to pursue this hobby in Utah. I can't believe it got that cold at the pony express marker last night.
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com> wrote:
Chuck,
You really made me laugh! That's close . . . to a point. No scarf and add some major weight to that kid and you'll have me. What was funnier is my wife made the same comment last night (as she did last year etc.).
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Just keep him away from the Red Ryder BB gun!
--- On Mon, 11/16/09, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leonid weather report To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 5:32 PM
Wow!
Here's how I picture Jay, dressed for winter observing:
http://www.redriderleglamps.com/images/products/randy_card.jpg _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
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On 16 Nov 2009, at 18:26, Jay Eads wrote:
Here's me minus my coat. http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f203/ArathornJax/IMG_0913.jpg
Well, as long as we're sharing, here's mine: http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/%7Epaw/keep/patrickw/stardust/STARDUST01.JP... BYW, last night's chilly temps caught me off guard here in Stansbury. Last night's/this morning's observing log entires were the first with a minus sign before the ambient air temps since March. Brrr... patrick
OK, I see you in the blue SEAN JOHN hoodie, but who's the guy with the big binocular? [?] On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com>wrote:
Well, as long as we're sharing, here's mine:
I'm the one with the big binos. Don't know who the others are (picture was taken at Wendover airport during the "Welcome Home Stardust" event). patrick On 16 Nov 2009, at 19:40, Chuck Hards wrote:
OK, I see you in the blue SEAN JOHN hoodie, but who's the guy with the big binocular?
I know, wink-wink...[?] On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Patrick Wiggins <paw@wirelessbeehive.com>wrote:
I'm the one with the big binos. Don't know who the others are (picture was taken at Wendover airport during the "Welcome Home Stardust" event).
patrick
On 16 Nov 2009, at 19:40, Chuck Hards wrote:
OK, I see you in the blue SEAN JOHN hoodie, but who's the guy with the big
binocular?
_______________________________________________
--- On Mon, 11/16/09, Craig Smith <cs2560@gmail.com> wrote:
I can't believe it got that cold at the pony express marker last night.
You can believe it. Here is a link to a screen print from the NWS website. http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2674 DT
I believe it! I'll have to check out the NWS site; that's good information. I was wondering where to get that info for around here. -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of daniel turner Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 10:31 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leonid weather report --- On Mon, 11/16/09, Craig Smith <cs2560@gmail.com> wrote:
I can't believe it got that cold at the pony express marker last night.
You can believe it. Here is a link to a screen print from the NWS website. http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2674 DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
I remember my friend Harry and I in jr. high, observing in winter temps of -10, -12 degrees and not really suffering at all. Oh, to recapture the vitality of youth... Events of the evening have conspired to keep me from getting to bed early, and as I must be awake and alert for work early in the morning, I am going to have to let another Leonid shower take place without my attention. Have fun and stay warm, any brave souls who venture forth.
Re. Daniel's excellent report on the temp and humidity at the Pony Express marker, I'm wondering if the excessive moisture is because the site isn't very far from the Great Salt Lake. That is, if I go to the Wedge tomorrow night, as I now plan, will the same thing happen with frost? The prediction is that nearby Castle Dale's low will be 25; but the Wedge is a bit higher and I don't know what the humidity is like there. Can we check somehow on what it was last night? Many thanks, Joe --- On Mon, 11/16/09, Craig Smith <cs2560@gmail.com> wrote: From: Craig Smith <cs2560@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leonid weather report To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 10:34 PM I believe it! I'll have to check out the NWS site; that's good information. I was wondering where to get that info for around here. -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of daniel turner Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 10:31 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leonid weather report --- On Mon, 11/16/09, Craig Smith <cs2560@gmail.com> wrote:
I can't believe it got that cold at the pony express marker last night.
You can believe it. Here is a link to a screen print from the NWS website. http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2674 DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com
Joe: This is not a lake effect. Pony Express is at the bottom of a dry lake bed, and cold air pools there because it is heavier than warm air. The dew point is the measure of water content in the air, anytime the air temperature falls to within 10 degrees F of the dew point you will start to have dew or frost problems. Winter weather brings the temperature down low enough to reach the dew point even when the air is vey dry by summertime standards. The inversion is starting to build in and it wasn't there yesterday morning. With an inversion there is relatively warm air a few hundred feet above the cold pools of air in the dry lake bottoms. I suspect the Overlook observing site would warmer because the cold air would be downhill from there. The price you pay for this is you might be up in the wind. I just didn't want someone to be unpleasantly surprised by the weather at one of our popular observing sites. I watched the frost form on the corrector plate of Tyler Alred's 5 inch Celestron on a night such as these. Young people aren't really that much hardier than the rest of us, they are just in denial about their own mortality. DT --- On Mon, 11/16/09, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Opinion needed To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 10:17 PM Re. Daniel's excellent report on the temp and humidity at the Pony Express marker, I'm wondering if the excessive moisture is because the site isn't very far from the Great Salt Lake. That is, if I go to the Wedge tomorrow night, as I now plan, will the same thing happen with frost? The prediction is that nearby Castle Dale's low will be 25; but the Wedge is a bit higher and I don't know what the humidity is like there. Can we check somehow on what it was last night? Many thanks, Joe
--- On Mon, 11/16/09, Craig Smith <cs2560@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Craig Smith <cs2560@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leonid weather report To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 10:34 PM
I believe it! I'll have to check out the NWS site; that's good information. I was wondering where to get that info for around here.
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of daniel turner Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 10:31 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leonid weather report
--- On Mon, 11/16/09, Craig Smith <cs2560@gmail.com> wrote:
I can't believe it got that cold at the pony express marker last night.
You can believe it. Here is a link to a screen print from the NWS website.
http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2674
DT
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There are excellent, reasonably priced commercial dew prevention devices available to the consumer these days, for every telescope, eyepiece, and finder configuration. There are also low-tech workarounds that can be employed to at least minimize the problem, to a point. Dew/frost accumulation on optics should no longer be a concern to the amateur astronomer.
Thank you so much, Daniel. -- Joe --- On Tue, 11/17/09, daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com> wrote: From: daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Opinion needed To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 10:31 AM Joe: This is not a lake effect. Pony Express is at the bottom of a dry lake bed, and cold air pools there because it is heavier than warm air. The dew point is the measure of water content in the air, anytime the air temperature falls to within 10 degrees F of the dew point you will start to have dew or frost problems. Winter weather brings the temperature down low enough to reach the dew point even when the air is vey dry by summertime standards. The inversion is starting to build in and it wasn't there yesterday morning. With an inversion there is relatively warm air a few hundred feet above the cold pools of air in the dry lake bottoms. I suspect the Overlook observing site would warmer because the cold air would be downhill from there. The price you pay for this is you might be up in the wind. I just didn't want someone to be unpleasantly surprised by the weather at one of our popular observing sites. I watched the frost form on the corrector plate of Tyler Alred's 5 inch Celestron on a night such as these. Young people aren't really that much hardier than the rest of us, they are just in denial about their own mortality. DT --- On Mon, 11/16/09, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Opinion needed To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 10:17 PM Re. Daniel's excellent report on the temp and humidity at the Pony Express marker, I'm wondering if the excessive moisture is because the site isn't very far from the Great Salt Lake. That is, if I go to the Wedge tomorrow night, as I now plan, will the same thing happen with frost? The prediction is that nearby Castle Dale's low will be 25; but the Wedge is a bit higher and I don't know what the humidity is like there. Can we check somehow on what it was last night? Many thanks, Joe
--- On Mon, 11/16/09, Craig Smith <cs2560@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Craig Smith <cs2560@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leonid weather report To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 10:34 PM
I believe it! I'll have to check out the NWS site; that's good information. I was wondering where to get that info for around here.
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of daniel turner Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 10:31 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Leonid weather report
--- On Mon, 11/16/09, Craig Smith <cs2560@gmail.com> wrote:
I can't believe it got that cold at the pony express marker last night.
You can believe it. Here is a link to a screen print from the NWS website.
http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2674
DT
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participants (6)
-
Chuck Hards -
Craig Smith -
daniel turner -
Jay Eads -
Joe Bauman -
Patrick Wiggins