Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document
Wow! This must have taken loads of time. I loved reading through this...especially the personal anecdotes...many of them made me laugh out loud! If anything I'd enjoy seeing more of these added. I'm wondering if it might be possible to include a couple of the club member's infamous UFO stories...or is this too controversial to be included? While I was a member of SLAS, I remember these curious stories incidents referred to from time to time, and I always felt that their presence created a mysterious sort of undertone to many SLAS gatherings. If club romances can be accounted for, why not UFOs? Just an idea. ~Kelly Ricks
I'm open to the stories. The hard part is prying them out of people. Dave Berenson is a font of information and has been promising to write up some of his adventures for years, but . . . So anything folks want to e-mail me, tell me about, whatever, I'm happy to work on including more. The personal anecdotes are my favorite too. -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Ricks Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 7:48 AM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document Wow! This must have taken loads of time. I loved reading through this...especially the personal anecdotes...many of them made me laugh out loud! If anything I'd enjoy seeing more of these added. I'm wondering if it might be possible to include a couple of the club member's infamous UFO stories...or is this too controversial to be included? While I was a member of SLAS, I remember these curious stories incidents referred to from time to time, and I always felt that their presence created a mysterious sort of undertone to many SLAS gatherings. If club romances can be accounted for, why not UFOs? Just an idea. ~Kelly Ricks _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
Ann and Kelly: Whether anyone likes it or not, Astronomy is a science and not one of the humanities. It's about discovering the truth about the world we live in and dispelling myths, no matter how popular they are. I don't see the UFO stories as quaint or charming. They come from the world of conspiracy theories and just plain goofball ideas. We open the door on UFO's and we have to also hear long monologues about how "Bush brought down the towers", "Einstein is all wrong about space travel", "Evolution is a atheist conspiracy" and "Cigarettes don't cause cancer". I've endured this drivel at SLAS events because there is a core of people there who really are interested in the science. I've also seen dozens of people wander away from SLAS because they don't want to listen to this constant rain of tripe. These people we are losing tend to be the most intelligent, educated, and our club is greatly diminished by their departure. It's not just good clean fun. It's a big problem. Daniel Turner ________________________________ From: Ann Blanchard <a.blanchard@ugs.utah.edu> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2012 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document I'm open to the stories. The hard part is prying them out of people. Dave Berenson is a font of information and has been promising to write up some of his adventures for years, but . . . So anything folks want to e-mail me, tell me about, whatever, I'm happy to work on including more. The personal anecdotes are my favorite too. -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Ricks Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 7:48 AM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document Wow! This must have taken loads of time. I loved reading through this...especially the personal anecdotes...many of them made me laugh out loud! If anything I'd enjoy seeing more of these added. I'm wondering if it might be possible to include a couple of the club member's infamous UFO stories...or is this too controversial to be included? While I was a member of SLAS, I remember these curious stories incidents referred to from time to time, and I always felt that their presence created a mysterious sort of undertone to many SLAS gatherings. If club romances can be accounted for, why not UFOs? Just an idea. ~Kelly Ricks _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
Sorry, I have to disagree here, for a couple of reasons. First, since UFO means 'Unidentified Flying Object', if it's flying, and people can't figure out what it is, it's a UFO. Since people are into studying the sky here, it would seem natural to include stories where they saw something while out stargazing, and can't figure out what it is. Second, since nobody has ever disproven the existence of things like alien visitors(The common explanation for a UFO, as defined above), it is not "non-scientific" to ask questions about what they are. Third, anecdotes are just as important as a dry recitation of facts. Stories about your skywatching experience outside of journals about the exact time you saw Jupiter, how log it was visible, etc. are fine, but a working history that people are going to want to read needs to include their experiences outside of the log-keeping. these might include run-ins with Park Rangers, encounters with bears or moose, getting out on a clear night, setting everything up, and immediately having a storm roll in. They might also include UFO stories, sure, but that is the experience of the person telling the story, all inclusive, and it's still a part of the skywatching experience. This is just my own opinion, and I'm not a trained scientist, but as I remember, investigating something that has not been disproven is a part of science. Besides, history should be fun, as well as informative. Mike Wells On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 10:43 AM, daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ann and Kelly:
Whether anyone likes it or not, Astronomy is a science and not one of the humanities. It's about discovering the truth about the world we live in and dispelling myths, no matter how popular they are. I don't see the UFO stories as quaint or charming. They come from the world of conspiracy theories and just plain goofball ideas. We open the door on UFO's and we have to also hear long monologues about how "Bush brought down the towers", "Einstein is all wrong about space travel", "Evolution is a atheist conspiracy" and "Cigarettes don't cause cancer". I've endured this drivel at SLAS events because there is a core of people there who really are interested in the science. I've also seen dozens of people wander away from SLAS because they don't want to listen to this constant rain of tripe. These people we are losing tend to be the most intelligent, educated, and our club is greatly diminished by their departure. It's not just good clean fun. It's a big problem.
Daniel Turner
________________________________ From: Ann Blanchard <a.blanchard@ugs.utah.edu> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2012 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document
I'm open to the stories. The hard part is prying them out of people. Dave Berenson is a font of information and has been promising to write up some of his adventures for years, but . . . So anything folks want to e-mail me, tell me about, whatever, I'm happy to work on including more. The personal anecdotes are my favorite too.
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Ricks Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 7:48 AM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document
Wow! This must have taken loads of time. I loved reading through this...especially the personal anecdotes...many of them made me laugh out loud! If anything I'd enjoy seeing more of these added.
I'm wondering if it might be possible to include a couple of the club member's infamous UFO stories...or is this too controversial to be included? While I was a member of SLAS, I remember these curious stories incidents referred to from time to time, and I always felt that their presence created a mysterious sort of undertone to many SLAS gatherings. If club romances can be accounted for, why not UFOs? Just an idea.
~Kelly Ricks _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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Here is my UFO story. During one of the oppositions of Saturn I decided I wanted to get up early and do some observing. It was winter and the outside temperature was about 10 below, but I set up my Byers mount and 8" Brandt refractor anyway. The view of Saturn was spectacular even though it was from my front yard in Sandy. Enke's division was clearly evident. Then a small flashing star entered the field of view. It flashed about once per second and was moving across the field of view slowly. It was obviously not an airplane. I was tracking Saturn at the time and it took about 45 seconds to traverse the field of view. Here it was, four o'clock in the morning, -10 degrees and now this! What in the world (or out of the world) was I seeing? I re-aimed the scope to examine it more closely. My magnification was about 265 at the time and the object was a point source, like a star, but it continued blinking about once per second as it moved from left to right (west to east) across the field. Hmmmmm. I reached up and turned the drive motor off just to keep it in the field longer. Immediately all of the stars started moving across the field of view, but to my amazement the flasher stopped still. Aha! Now my UFO was no longer unidentified. I was looking at a spin stabilized geosynchronous satellite. The next day I did some calculations to verify positions. The object was actually not on the celestial equator, it had a negative declination. All UFO stories are not created equally. There are strange things to be seen in the sky, and I would like to hear about them. No need to get into conspiracy theories. Ask Dave Bennet about the "flasher" we saw at Pit n Pole (I think) that was naked eye and flashed about once every 90 seconds. It was in Libra as I recall, but did not move, and was very bright, aroound -1 magnitude. That one is still unidentified. Don't go off the deep end, nor editorialize, but talk about what you see. Brent ________________________________ From: Michael Wells <eyeonyouproductions@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2012 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document Sorry, I have to disagree here, for a couple of reasons. First, since UFO means 'Unidentified Flying Object', if it's flying, and people can't figure out what it is, it's a UFO. Since people are into studying the sky here, it would seem natural to include stories where they saw something while out stargazing, and can't figure out what it is. Second, since nobody has ever disproven the existence of things like alien visitors(The common explanation for a UFO, as defined above), it is not "non-scientific" to ask questions about what they are. Third, anecdotes are just as important as a dry recitation of facts. Stories about your skywatching experience outside of journals about the exact time you saw Jupiter, how log it was visible, etc. are fine, but a working history that people are going to want to read needs to include their experiences outside of the log-keeping. these might include run-ins with Park Rangers, encounters with bears or moose, getting out on a clear night, setting everything up, and immediately having a storm roll in. They might also include UFO stories, sure, but that is the experience of the person telling the story, all inclusive, and it's still a part of the skywatching experience. This is just my own opinion, and I'm not a trained scientist, but as I remember, investigating something that has not been disproven is a part of science. Besides, history should be fun, as well as informative. Mike Wells On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 10:43 AM, daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ann and Kelly:
Whether anyone likes it or not, Astronomy is a science and not one of the humanities. It's about discovering the truth about the world we live in and dispelling myths, no matter how popular they are. I don't see the UFO stories as quaint or charming. They come from the world of conspiracy theories and just plain goofball ideas. We open the door on UFO's and we have to also hear long monologues about how "Bush brought down the towers", "Einstein is all wrong about space travel", "Evolution is a atheist conspiracy" and "Cigarettes don't cause cancer". I've endured this drivel at SLAS events because there is a core of people there who really are interested in the science. I've also seen dozens of people wander away from SLAS because they don't want to listen to this constant rain of tripe. These people we are losing tend to be the most intelligent, educated, and our club is greatly diminished by their departure. It's not just good clean fun. It's a big problem.
Daniel Turner
________________________________ From: Ann Blanchard <a.blanchard@ugs.utah.edu> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2012 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document
I'm open to the stories. The hard part is prying them out of people. Dave Berenson is a font of information and has been promising to write up some of his adventures for years, but . . . So anything folks want to e-mail me, tell me about, whatever, I'm happy to work on including more. The personal anecdotes are my favorite too.
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Ricks Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 7:48 AM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document
Wow! This must have taken loads of time. I loved reading through this...especially the personal anecdotes...many of them made me laugh out loud! If anything I'd enjoy seeing more of these added.
I'm wondering if it might be possible to include a couple of the club member's infamous UFO stories...or is this too controversial to be included? While I was a member of SLAS, I remember these curious stories incidents referred to from time to time, and I always felt that their presence created a mysterious sort of undertone to many SLAS gatherings. If club romances can be accounted for, why not UFOs? Just an idea.
~Kelly Ricks _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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I apologize for not deleting the past osts. I meant to do so but my finger hit the "send" button on its way to delete.
I just happened across an iPhone app called " NASA Space Weather " and has interesting current photos of the sun via SOHO and many other selectable ones. Best of all, it's free. -Barrett
Thanks for the tip Barrett. I had not heard of that one so I just installed it. A couple of other Sun related iOS apps I've been using for some time: 3D Sun. Provides real time alerts of solar activity. Free. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/3d-sun/id347089078?mt=8 Aurora Forecast. Predicts the probability of auroras for the user's location for the few several days. Free. http://www.tinacinc.com/AuroraForecast/ patrick On 14 Nov 2012, at 18:07, BWFlowers wrote:
I just happened across an iPhone app called " NASA Space Weather " and has interesting current photos of the sun via SOHO and many other selectable ones. Best of all, it's free. -Barrett
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Daniel, Thank you for your response, I can certainly understand where you're coming from and appreciate the fact that it would be undesirable to allow the mission and image of SLAS to stray into the realm of myth. After all, SLAS (and organizations like it), is a group whose members are often trusted by the media and visiting public to comment on and dispel popular, but utterly pseudoscientific, theories like all the 2012 nonsense. Though I love a good story, I tend to favor a skeptical view--"extraordinary claims do require extraordinary evidence." Mike, I also appreciated your reply. I think it's healthy (and often intellectually illuminating), to acknowledge, discuss, and investigate experiences that are out of the ordinary, and I personally enjoy the dimension and human perspective that all kinds of stories can give to the experience of participating in a scientific endeavor. As frequently happens with me, I am persuaded by aspects of both viewpoints. Anyway, I hope my original comment (and, in fact, the first comment I've ever posted on Utah Astronomy), didn't stir up any hard feelings. Since I've relocated to Ohio, I am no longer even a member of SLAS (though I miss it terribly), so my input shouldn't figure in to any decisions. Thanks again Ann for the historical work. And thanks to all for sharing your interesting perspectives. ~Kelly On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:21 PM, <utah-astronomy-request@mailman.xmission.com
wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Lot of stuff up there. (Hutchings, Mat) 2. Re: SLAS history document (daniel turner) 3. Re: SLAS history document (Michael Wells)
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Message: 1 Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 11:13:03 -0500 From: "Hutchings, Mat" <mat.hutchings@siemens.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Lot of stuff up there. Message-ID: < B78508FE0D7AB04FB3770D1E9283445B685FDB86C4@USMLVA0E945MSX.ww017.siemens.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Commonwealth of Independent States. Mainly countries that made up the former Soviet Republic.
Mat
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of erikhansen@thebluezone.net Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 11:01 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Lot of stuff up there.
Who is CIS?
Like the subject line says, there's a lot of stuff up there.
patrick
Objects being tracked on Earth orbit as of 3 October 2012.
Country Payloads Debris Total CHINA. 131. 3595. 3726 CIS. 1421. 4774. 6195 ESA. 41. 45. 86 FRANCE. 55. 437. 492 INDIA. 48. 127. 175 JAPAN. 121. 78. 199 USA. 1123. 3823. 4946 OTHER. 597. 114. 711 TOTAL. 3537. 12993. 16530
Source: Orbital Debris Quarterly Newsletter, Volume 16, Issue 4, October 2012. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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Message: 2 Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 09:43:44 -0800 (PST) From: daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document Message-ID: <1352223824.21436.YahooMailNeo@web163805.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Ann and Kelly: ? Whether anyone likes it or not, Astronomy is a science and not one of the humanities.? It's about discovering the truth about the world we live in and dispelling myths, no matter how popular they are.? I don't see the UFO stories as quaint or charming.? They come from the world of conspiracy theories and just plain goofball ideas.? We open the door on UFO's and we have to also hear long monologues about how "Bush brought down the towers",? "Einstein is all wrong about space travel",? "Evolution is a atheist conspiracy" and "Cigarettes don't cause cancer".? I've endured this drivel at SLAS events because there is a core of people there who really are interested in the science.? I've also seen dozens of people wander away from SLAS because they don't want to listen to this constant rain of tripe.? These people we are losing tend to be the most intelligent, educated, and our club is greatly diminished by their departure.?? It's not just good clean fun.? It's a big problem. ? ? Daniel Turner ?
________________________________ From: Ann Blanchard <a.blanchard@ugs.utah.edu> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2012 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document
I'm open to the stories.? The hard part is prying them out of people.? Dave Berenson is a font of information and has been promising to write up some of his adventures for years, but . . . So anything folks want to e-mail me, tell me about, whatever, I'm happy to work on including more.? The personal anecdotes are my favorite too.?
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Ricks Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 7:48 AM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document
Wow! This must have taken loads of time. I loved reading through this...especially the personal anecdotes...many of them made me laugh out loud! If anything I'd enjoy seeing more of these added.
I'm wondering if it might be possible to include a couple of the club member's infamous UFO stories...or is this too controversial to be included? While I was a member of SLAS, I remember these curious stories incidents referred to from time to time, and I always felt that their presence created a mysterious sort of undertone to many SLAS gatherings. If club romances can be accounted for, why not UFOs? Just an idea.
~Kelly Ricks _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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Message: 3 Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 11:20:13 -0700 From: Michael Wells <eyeonyouproductions@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document Message-ID: < CADxGsn5qqPxU9TPrxSd9_cyGK3Dmj_w05eusxYAEX0gPWABh+Q@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Sorry, I have to disagree here, for a couple of reasons.
First, since UFO means 'Unidentified Flying Object', if it's flying, and people can't figure out what it is, it's a UFO. Since people are into studying the sky here, it would seem natural to include stories where they saw something while out stargazing, and can't figure out what it is.
Second, since nobody has ever disproven the existence of things like alien visitors(The common explanation for a UFO, as defined above), it is not "non-scientific" to ask questions about what they are.
Third, anecdotes are just as important as a dry recitation of facts. Stories about your skywatching experience outside of journals about the exact time you saw Jupiter, how log it was visible, etc. are fine, but a working history that people are going to want to read needs to include their experiences outside of the log-keeping. these might include run-ins with Park Rangers, encounters with bears or moose, getting out on a clear night, setting everything up, and immediately having a storm roll in. They might also include UFO stories, sure, but that is the experience of the person telling the story, all inclusive, and it's still a part of the skywatching experience.
This is just my own opinion, and I'm not a trained scientist, but as I remember, investigating something that has not been disproven is a part of science. Besides, history should be fun, as well as informative.
Mike Wells
On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 10:43 AM, daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ann and Kelly:
Whether anyone likes it or not, Astronomy is a science and not one of the humanities. It's about discovering the truth about the world we live in and dispelling myths, no matter how popular they are. I don't see the UFO stories as quaint or charming. They come from the world of conspiracy theories and just plain goofball ideas. We open the door on UFO's and we have to also hear long monologues about how "Bush brought down the towers", "Einstein is all wrong about space travel", "Evolution is a atheist conspiracy" and "Cigarettes don't cause cancer". I've endured this drivel at SLAS events because there is a core of people there who really are interested in the science. I've also seen dozens of people wander away from SLAS because they don't want to listen to this constant rain of tripe. These people we are losing tend to be the most intelligent, educated, and our club is greatly diminished by their departure. It's not just good clean fun. It's a big problem.
Daniel Turner
________________________________ From: Ann Blanchard <a.blanchard@ugs.utah.edu> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2012 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document
I'm open to the stories. The hard part is prying them out of people. Dave Berenson is a font of information and has been promising to write up some of his adventures for years, but . . . So anything folks want to e-mail me, tell me about, whatever, I'm happy to work on including more. The personal anecdotes are my favorite too.
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Ricks Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 7:48 AM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document
Wow! This must have taken loads of time. I loved reading through this...especially the personal anecdotes...many of them made me laugh out loud! If anything I'd enjoy seeing more of these added.
I'm wondering if it might be possible to include a couple of the club member's infamous UFO stories...or is this too controversial to be included? While I was a member of SLAS, I remember these curious stories incidents referred to from time to time, and I always felt that their presence created a mysterious sort of undertone to many SLAS gatherings. If club romances can be accounted for, why not UFOs? Just an idea.
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End of Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 117, Issue 11 ***********************************************
participants (7)
-
Ann Blanchard -
Brent Watson -
BWFlowers -
daniel turner -
Kelly Ricks -
Michael Wells -
Wiggins Patrick