I have a feeling Patrick only got lip service. There will be lights in the parking lot, at least, who are they kidding? Security lighting, garage areas, concessions...spotlights in the sky, (it's owned by a car dealership tycoon, remember?) there will be acres of lights even if the track itself isn't lit. More billboards, small businesses will sprout-up around it such as gas-stations, convenience stores, restaurants, etc. And what about the construction phase itself? Will this summer be washed-out because of all-night construction lights as they race to open the place on-time? It's a Pandoras box. Go ahead and put a good spin on it if you want; roll over and believe whatever the government tells you. I can't see anything good, astronomically, about either the Walmart facility or the racetrack. I'm not bringing all this up in an attack on SPOC - I've said repeatedly that SPOC has years, maybe decades of use ahead of it. Heck, I'm not even an active member and really don't care what the club does with its money. I pay my dues and folks with more time on their hands than I give some of it back to the community, terrific arrangement. What I AM saying is that the skies over the Tooele valley are much worse than they were 25 years ago, are getting worse still, and at a much faster pace as time goes by. Any other position is undefendable. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
<<I have a feeling Patrick only got lip service. There will be lights in the parking lot, at least, who are they kidding? Security lighting, garage areas, concessions...spotlights in the sky, (it's owned by a car dealership tycoon, remember?) there will be acres of lights even if the track itself isn't lit. More billboards, small businesses will sprout-up around it such as gas-stations, convenience stores, restaurants, etc. And what about the construction phase itself? Will this summer be washed-out because of all-night construction lights as they race to open the place on-time? It's a Pandoras box. >> Time will tell. If the report is correct that there will be no nighttime racing, spotlights in the sky, and those other lights, for daytime events wouldn't bother me. My hair has thinned enough. I'm not going to worry about this. << What I AM saying is that the skies over the Tooele valley are much worse than they were 25 years ago, are getting worse still, and at a much faster pace as time goes by. Any other position is undefendable.>> Other positions don't need defending. Show me a place that hasn't gotten worse in the last 25 years. Backside of the Moon doesn't count. I'm grateful that Tooele County is willing to have and enforce such an ordinance. It can't eliminate light pollution but it can slow it down. Siegfried
Siegfried Jachmann wrote:
I'm grateful that Tooele County is willing to have and enforce such an ordinance. It can't eliminate light pollution but it can slow it down.
Agreed, but, again, I'm not convinced it's _just_ the ordinance at work. I just came back from Tooele (which does not have a light pollution ordinance) and noted the two new car dealerships there have both opted for shielded lights. Using less energy just makes financial sense. Patrick
FYI, I raced all over the west during the 90s and hardly ever found a track that was lighted, not even in the parking lot. Again, this is NOT a NASCAR or "roundy round" track. It is a sports car track and that type of racing is almost always done during the day. Yes there are exceptions but this doesn't sound like one. Just my .02 Barney ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Hards"
I have a feeling Patrick only got lip service.
FWIW, I believe the phrase "Bringing NASCAR to Utah" was used by Larry Miller when he first announced this project. Guy Quoting "Barney B." <aaah@sisna.com>:
FYI, I raced all over the west during the 90s and hardly ever found a track that was lighted, not even in the parking lot.
Again, this is NOT a NASCAR or "roundy round" track. It is a sports car track and that type of racing is almost always done during the day. Yes there are exceptions but this doesn't sound like one.
Just my .02
Barney
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Hards"
I have a feeling Patrick only got lip service.
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--- diveboss@xmission.com wrote:
FWIW, I believe the phrase "Bringing NASCAR to Utah" was used by Larry Miller when he first announced this project.
Guy
Ive noted several things concerning the topics discussed on this forum recently. 1. There is a brass placard on the wall of the Hansen Planetarium that names Larry H. Miller as the chairman of the board of directors. So maybe hes not a knuckle scraping Neanderthal when it comes to the issues that effect amateur astronomers. 2. At the downtown service center with his name on it, there are fully politically correct shielded light fixtures, just like on page 71 of the Observers Handbook. So he can walk the walk. 3. Ive been doing dark site observing for years before I ever joined SLAS. Ive always considered it a WILDERNESS activity. This state is full of uninhabited places where its dark enough to scare you silly. If you think that a dark site needs paved roads, buildings, power, water and sewage hookups, well your are no longer in an uninhabited area and you can look forward to a Taco Bell next door within a very short time. 4. Some say they want security. I would ask from what. The crime is in the cities not out in the wilderness. Out there you will find the nicest, most helpful, and courteous people anywhere. They will gladly risk getting stuck in the mud to help a total stranger get unstuck The best investment for dark skies is a tank of gasoline and drive to the boonies. Just go do it. Daniel Turner __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
To each his own, I say. If you want to do as I have for the past 20 years or so, head on out to the wilds with your gear, well, "just go do it". Nobody's stopping or criticizing you. Don't worry about those who may decide to band together in the effort to do it in a little more organized and comfortable way -- you'll never see them. But it is not valid to criticize them for trying a different approach. The answer to Dan's question about security from what is: from theft. If we had a secure location like the building at the communications tower site we've been talking about, we would feel safer about leaving valuable equipment there. That way, we would not have to pack up every time we wanted to observe from that location. But if you think you can leave a telescope or laptop in some shack in the wilderness and expect to use them the next time you head out, good luck. Even if 99 percent of the ORV users who drive through are "the nicest, most helpful, and courteous people anywhere," you can't possibly believe that 100 percent are. A power line is desirable because more and more, CCD cameras are the way to do astrophography and you need a computer hookup to do it right. Computer batteries run out pretty quickly. It's better to plug your computer into a power line if one's available. I have an inverter that runs off my car battery, but it's a pain in the butt and for all I know, some long night it could drain the battery. -- Thanks, Joe
4. Some say they want ìsecurityî. I would ask ìfrom whatî. The crime is in the cities not out in the wilderness. Out there you will find the nicest, most helpful, and courteous people anywhere. They will gladly risk getting stuck in the mud to help a total stranger get unstuck
The best investment for dark skies is a tank of gasoline and drive to the boonies.
Just go do it.
Daniel Turner
I am probably going to write n a story for Monday's paper about the Titan probe. But I'll be off after today, through next week. Would anybody like to comment today? I would welcome two or three additional voices, if you'd like. If you have a special interest in Titan and know more than usual about the moon, great! If you're just interested and are following the Cassini adventure, great! Please drop me a line off-list with your phone number. I'll need to do this as soon as I can today. Best wishes, Joe
No. As a matter of fact it was KSL and other media folks who have no idea what Road Racing is all about. A spokesman for Miller tried to explain the difference to the reporters but they never quite got the message. BB ----- Original Message ----- From: <diveboss@xmission.com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Re: racetrack
FWIW, I believe the phrase "Bringing NASCAR to Utah" was used by Larry Miller when he first announced this project.
participants (7)
-
Barney B. -
Chuck Hards -
daniel turner -
diveboss＠xmission.com -
Joe Bauman -
Patrick Wiggins -
Siegfried Jachmann