Interesting that Astronomers and religious figures have had so many less than cordial disagreements through the centuries. I thought the first passage, Don relayed, described a volcano. Does not the Bible also say that the Sun is not a Star in the book of Genesis? I imagine the Koran does have a connection with the stars, as a lot of their names are Arabic in origin. Although I know little of the Koran. I also imagine without light pollution the night sky was more impressive to ancient humans. Erik --- jimgibson00@yahoo.com wrote: From: Jim Gibson <jimgibson00@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] More on Cosmology Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 03:11:19 -0800 (PST) Don, Interesting subject (to me anyway). Even though you quoted from what many consider to be a religious source I don’t think those particular passages were religious in themselves.  You got me thinking though; I wonder how much cosmology there is in the Koran or other eastern religious writings because cosmology seems to have been a popular topic among many early religious writers and the people in general.   I was in Seagull Book and Tape one day and found and English translation of the Ethiopic Book of Enoch; a book once thought to be included in the Old Testament.   In Chapter 8:5 it tells us that the angle “Barkayal taught the observers of the stars”   Now listen to this as we peer into some ancient's log book as he records his observations:   14:9 Behold, in that vision clouds and a mist invited me; agitated stars and flashes of lightning impelled and pressed me forwards, while winds in the vision assisted my flight, accelerating my progress. 17: 3 3. And I saw the places of the luminaries and the treasuries of the stars 18:4 4. I saw the winds of heaven which turn and bring the circumference of the sun and all the stars to their setting. 33:33.And I saw how the stars of heaven come forth, 79:1. And now, my son, I have shown thee everything,  and the law of all the stars of the heaven is completed.     79:2. And he showed me all the laws of these for every day,  and for every season of bearing rule,  and for every year,  and for its going forth, and for the order prescribed to it every month and every week:     79:3. And the waning of the moon which takes place in the sixth portal: for in this sixth portal her light is accomplished, and after that there is the beginning of the waning:     79:4. (And the waning) which takes place in the first portal in its season,  till one hundred and seventy-seven days are accomplished: reckoned according to weeks, twenty-five (weeks) and two days.     79:5. She falls behind the sun and the order of the stars exactly five days in the course of one period, and when this place which thou seest has been traversed.    79:6. Such is the picture and sketch of every luminary which Uriel ... showed unto me.   Imagine the clear skies and no light pollution then.     Jim   --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Don J. Colton <djcolton@piol.com> wrote: From: Don J. Colton <djcolton@piol.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] More on Upheaval Dome To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 7:01 PM Whether your religious or not it interesting to note the following two verses - they sound like a meteorite. And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; Rev. 8:8 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; Rev. 8:10 -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Gibson Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:50 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] More on Upheaval Dome   Rich wrote: It's nothing that those on this board haven't thought about but, the chances of a cataclysmic collision occurring in our lifetime is a reality. It is a scary reality! I wonder, is the monitoring of near earth objects as comprehensive as it needs to be? Do we have automated monitors or are we depending on human observation?       Patrick will probably give the definitive answer on this but, he is still asleep I think. Patrick led me to the Yahoo Minor Planetary and something or other Yahoo group.  Those boys seem to feel things are pretty well under control.   Quoting Alain Maury he states: “Apart from the very very very unlikely long period comet arriving from the Oort cloud and falling just on us, there are no more objects able to "end life as we know it" anywhere in the solar system which has not been detected. We are at the 70%, 80% level on the 1km diameter asteroids (or better phrased magnitude 18 and brighter asteroids), and a "global killer" is more like a 10km asteroid, and we all know them and none is anywhere near an impacting orbit.”   He goes on to say:   “Very quickly (let's say another 5 years of hard work), the only worry left will be in the 200m range, i.e. "state" destroyers, not "continent destroyers".   So if these guys know what they are talking about then your statement “, the chances of a cataclysmic collision occurring in our lifetime” still may be true but should not be to the point of “scary” I think.   For what it’s worth   Jim Gibson         --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Ilove2getSpam@gmail.com <ilove2getspam@gmail.com> wrote: From: Ilove2getSpam@gmail.com <ilove2getspam@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] More on Upheaval Dome To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 10:28 AM It's nothing that those on this board haven't thought about but, the chances of a cataclysmic collision occurring in our lifetime is a reality. It is a scary reality! I wonder, is the monitoring of near earth objects as comprehensive as it needs to be? Do we have automated monitors or are we depending on human observation? Just think, this picture was most likely the result of a deflection not an impact... [image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Tunguska.png] *Tunguska Event - June 30, 1908* *June 30, 2008:* The year is 1908, and it's just after seven in the morning. A man is sitting on the front porch of a trading post at Vanavara in Siberia. Little does he know, in a few moments, he will be hurled from his chair and the heat will be so intense he will feel as though his shirt is on fire. That's how the Tunguska event felt *40 miles* from ground zero. Today, June 30, 2008, is the 100th anniversary of that ferocious impact near the Podkamennaya Tunguska River in remote Siberia--and after 100 years, scientists are still talking about it. -Rich On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 12:13 PM, <zaurak@digis.net> wrote:

Has the park service accepted the impact crater explanation? Do they still talk about the "salt" theory? Anyway lets hope future impact craters happen far from where we live.

--- ilove2getspam@gmail.com wrote:

From: "Ilove2getSpam@gmail.com" <ilove2getspam@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] More on Upheaval Dome Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:30:01 -0500

Even still, the hypothesis was controversial. I'm still not sure if the controversy has been truly eliminated. I'll leave that to the educated folks on this list to determine!

-Rich

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Not to take away anything from Kurt's work, but the Observer's Handbook has for years listed the most significant impact craters in North America and Upheaval Dome has been on there for a while. A table lists latitude, longitude, approximate age, surface expression, and visible geologic features. A simplified map shows approximate location. The governor and general public can be excused, but I'm surprised that it doesn't seem to be more common knowledge among those in the hobby.

...

From comments I've read on the list lately, I get the impression that few amateurs take advantage of the Observer's Handbook every year.

Patrick, how many orders did you take for the 2009 edition? Have you noticed a downward trend over the years? _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com